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Okay, so now I too am wondering....(scheduling help please)


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how in the world we're going to fit it all in :tongue_smilie: With the release of The Creative Writer from PHP, which I know my son will love, I am in a pickle. Here's what's on the docket for 5th grade:

 

Latin: Henle Latin

Spanish: GSWS

Logic: Building Thinking Skills

Writing: WWS, The Creative Writer

Grammar: KISS plus diagramming (which he loves)

Spelling: Spelling Power (he's a natural speller, so this takes little time)

Vocabulary: Vocab Workshop (drop it, since we are learning a lot with Latin? My hesitation is that this seems to be one of the courses in which he is learning the most...)

Math: AoPS and MM

Reading: To go along with Ancients History

History: K12 Human Odyssey

Science: CPO Life Science with a little BFSU thrown in for diversion ;)

 

I know History and Science will require more time next year, time we want to commit. Math takes us an hour a day currently, and I see that remaining the same (we'll be taking AoPS as slowly as needed). Latin is going to take about 40 minutes a day.

 

I would like our day to run from 9-3 with one hour break. Is this doable? Is it time to start thinking about "semesters" of work, rather than entire years?

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To be honest, I'm don't see how you will fit all of that into a 9-3 day. We work from 8-3 or 4 each day. And several times a week, my girls work for a few hours in the evening.

 

Our subjects:

Geography

History--writing instruction included

Science

Math

Logic

Art

Spelling

Vocabulary

Grammar

Lit

Japanese--to be added next semester

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We've got a similar course load, and I'm starting to worry about the same thing. We school 6 days a week so that make things a little easier. Here's my current plan:

 

5 days a week:

Math: 60 min

Latin: 30 min

Chinese: 30 min

 

6 days a week alternating:

Science or History: 90 min

 

then we'll alternate weeks for English, working 5 days a week

Week 1 - grammar & writing 90 min

Week 2 - spelling, vocabulary, lit. 90 min

 

on the 6th day I'm going to try 6 week long block studies:

Art, Typing, Music History, Logic, Art History, & Health

 

I've scheduled up to 5 hours a day (if we need it all), not including other reading. But I haven't taken into account all my youngers or the soon to be arriving newest family member; so I'll let you know in a couple of months if any of this is working.:D

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Well, you guys always make me feel inadequate, but here it is

 

Morning 8:30 to 1pm, 4 days a week (with no break. well, reading lit is his break :001_huh:)

 

1.5 hours math

1 hour with me - rotating science labs, writing instruction, lit discussion, vocab, history time line and impt people write ups, etc

30 minutes reading lit

30 minutes spelling and grammar

1 hour WWS

 

Afternoon from 1 to 5

free time and activities

Swimming, homeschool playgroup,

Reading science and literature

Science and history documentaries on current topic

1 hour mandarin class on tuesdays afternoons

 

Evening

5:15 pm to 6pm - 15 min mandarin, 30 min violin

7 to 8pm -- 45 minutes history read alouds with father

8pm to 9pm -- 1 hour reading lit

 

Weekends

2 hours: Logic, Philosophy (with a parent)

2 hours: reading science

1 hour: Mandarin class

2 hours: Violin class

 

5th day: "technicraft" for 5 hours at a local school, shop and home ec. for half of the year. 2nd half we use Fridays for science, typing, geography, poetry

 

Hope this helps.

 

Ruth in NZ

Edited by lewelma
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I don't know if this would work but

 

9-10 L.A. (writing, grammar, spelling and vocab if you keep it)

10-11 Latin and logic

11-12 math

12-1 break

1-2 ancient ho and readings alternate

2-3 science

 

oh, I left out spanish. would you be able to do spanish three days a week instead of logic to fill out that hour? I don't know how long logic takes.

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I don't think you can realistically cover that many topics well in the time frame you have listed. My personal suggestion would be to not include them all. Some of the them just aren't necessary for a 5th grader. Either that or you could do an alternating schedule and alternate the 2 languages and logic.

 

FWIW, Ruth, I wouldn't let lists like the OP's make you feel inadequate. My lists are very, very short. ;) multum, non multa Having btdt many times over, it is definitely a truth that is the foundation of my educational philosophy and one which produces academically strong students that thrive at the collegiate level.

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I don't think you can realistically cover that many topics well in the time frame you have listed. My personal suggestion would be to not include them all. Some of the them just aren't necessary for a 5th grader. Either that or you could do an alternating schedule and alternate the 2 languages and logic.

 

FWIW, Ruth, I wouldn't let lists like the OP's make you feel inadequate. My lists are very, very short. ;) multum, non multa Having btdt many times over, it is definitely a truth that is the foundation of my educational philosophy and one which produces academically strong students that thrive at the collegiate level.

 

Inquiring minds want to know.....what would you include for a 5th grader? My list is much shorter, and I was feeling inadequate too. Given my family composition and my belief in providing a near-daily chunk (as in hours) of unscheduled time, a long academic list isn't possible. Maybe I'm dreaming, though.

 

I am hoping that a 5th grader can still cover LA skill areas through writing/dictation/copywork rather than as seperate subjects and that my 5th grader can read her way through history, science (including nature study), and literature without specific programs.

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To be honest, I'm don't see how you will fit all of that into a 9-3 day. We work from 8-3 or 4 each day. And several times a week, my girls work for a few hours in the evening.

 

Our subjects:

Geography

History--writing instruction included

Science

Math

Logic

Art

Spelling

Vocabulary

Grammar

Lit

Japanese--to be added next semester

 

 

Thank you, Miss Moe. Re lengthening our day...sigh...I just don't want to burn ourselves out, KWIM?

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multum, non multa

 

 

Philosophically, I agree. But practically, I have a hard time implementing this. When I try to decide what I should drop, I find myself "defending" each subject in my mind as to why we should keep it. :rolleyes:

 

We're keeping Latin and Spanish. Writing and Grammar stay. Math of course, and History and Science too. The only ones I can see letting go are Spelling and Vocabulary.

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Inquiring minds want to know.....what would you include for a 5th grader? My list is much shorter, and I was feeling inadequate too. Given my family composition and my belief in providing a near-daily chunk (as in hours) of unscheduled time, a long academic list isn't possible. Maybe I'm dreaming, though.

 

I am hoping that a 5th grader can still cover LA skill areas through writing/dictation/copywork rather than as seperate subjects and that my 5th grader can read her way through history, science (including nature study), and literature without specific programs.

 

Next yr my 5th grader will be doing the following:

 

writing/grammar/spelling/reading

math

Latin (only about 15 mins/day)

history

science

religion

 

 

Even my very advanced students don't do more than that. I have had 5th graders completing high school level coursework (alg and French) and they still didn't spend more than 5-5 1/2 hrs/day/5 days/wk.

 

I would not do 2 languages w/a 5th grader, nor would I study logic. I would incorporate vocab into our LA time frame. LA time might include vocab, grammar, poetry, spelling and w/o writing/reading and all those shouldn't take more than 30 mins combined (I personally would only do grammar and spelling daily out of the non-writing/reading list.)

 

I don't use writing texts w/my younger kids. They work on writing skills/assignments about 30 mins daily. Even if I were using a text, 30 mins of concentrated writing/day is what I would expect. (that is 2 1/2 hrs of concentrated writing/wk.....plenty of time for developing appropriate writing skills IME.) The key is making sure that the assignments match their ability and that assignments increase expectations appropriately w/their skills and constantly "push" their skills to the next level.

 

To each their own. But, high school length days come soon enough and childhood is gone and those hrs of freedom can never be recaptured b/c they are simply gone and full of teenage/adult responsibilities.

Edited by 8FillTheHeart
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Philosophically, I agree. But practically, I have a hard time implementing this. When I try to decide what I should drop, I find myself "defending" each subject in my mind as to why we should keep it. :rolleyes:

 

We're keeping Latin and Spanish. Writing and Grammar stay. Math of course, and History and Science too. The only ones I can see letting go are Spelling and Vocabulary.

 

My view is that it is a matter of pros vs. cons, not a matter of worth vs. no worth. I find greater value in freedom to pursue individual interests than multiple languages and logic. I value certain aspects of childhood freedom over academics. It isn't that they don't have value: it is that I view their value as less valuable than going deeper into few things and less valuable than developing self-selected areas of interest.

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For your schedule, I would alternate days for language. Do Latin MWF the first week, and TR the second. Then have Spanish be the reverse. It would take an hour a day.

Logic, for BTS, I would only spend 15-30 mins per day.

Grammar and diagramming, max of 30 mins per day.

Writing, 30-45 mins, if it takes longer, finish it the next day.

I would drop spelling, especially since he is a natural speller, and go with the vocab instead, and spend 15-30 mins on it.

Reading, 30-60 mins.

History and science, alternate like the languages, and spend 60-90 mins a day on them.

That is 4 to 5 3/4 hours.

I forgot the Creative Writer, I would imagine no more than 30 mins a day.

Which would bring the totals up to 4 1/2 to 6 1/4 hours a day.

 

As an example, our schedule for my 7th grader is about 5-6 hours. It includes a 15 min break. If he is working well, he finishes before lunch, if not, he has 30 min for lunch and then another hour until he is done with school.

 

To be fair, we don't do all the subjects you do, and my kids have outside classes all day on Friday, and for 2 hours on Tuesday. But he does the following:

 

Math- 45-60 mins, MTWR

German- 30 mins, MTWR

History- 45-60, MTWR

Science- this is a Friday class, and then he spends about 1 hour on homework through the week

Writing- 30 min, MWR- WWS

Grammar- 30 mins, MWR- ALL, switching to Stewart and added diagramming when finished with the sample

Vocab- 15-30 mins, MWR

Reading- 30-60 mins, MTWR- not counted in his time

Logic- 15 min, MTWR- logic puzzles, 15-30 mins, MTWR- during breakfast, more formal logic- we discuss as we eat

He also take an intro to computers class, drama, and pe through Friday classes.

Edited by Amy in CO
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how in the world we're going to fit it all in :tongue_smilie: With the release of The Creative Writer from PHP, which I know my son will love, I am in a pickle. Here's what's on the docket for 5th grade:

 

Latin: Henle Latin

Spanish: GSWS

Logic: Building Thinking Skills

Writing: WWS, The Creative Writer

Grammar: KISS plus diagramming (which he loves)

Spelling: Spelling Power (he's a natural speller, so this takes little time)

Vocabulary: Vocab Workshop (drop it, since we are learning a lot with Latin? My hesitation is that this seems to be one of the courses in which he is learning the most...)

Math: AoPS and MM

Reading: To go along with Ancients History

History: K12 Human Odyssey

Science: CPO Life Science with a little BFSU thrown in for diversion ;)

 

I know History and Science will require more time next year, time we want to commit. Math takes us an hour a day currently, and I see that remaining the same (we'll be taking AoPS as slowly as needed). Latin is going to take about 40 minutes a day.

 

I would like our day to run from 9-3 with one hour break. Is this doable? Is it time to start thinking about "semesters" of work, rather than entire years?

Okay, my view:

 

1. Combine writing, grammar, spelling, and vocabulary into one mental unit for yourself which you will label English / Language Arts. Allow an hour a day for that, and work out micro-schedule of how to cover all the components you want to work on, but all within those four to five hours weekly - I really do not think you need more than that (though I am big on native language literacy).

 

2. Keep math at that one hour, that is good.

 

3. Alterate days with Spanish and Latin if you work better with big sessions (like we do), if not, cut them both to 30 minutes for the "foreign languages" chunk to be one hour long too.

 

When you are done with English, math, and languages, it is already noon and you are having lunch and a break.

 

4. Combine reading with science and history with logic (though I would personally ditch a logic curriculum altogether, as I believe at this age critical thinking is learned as a cross-disciplinary thing, and actual formal logic is better saved for later), so that each day you get a bit of both. I would combine a 40-60 minutes reading sessions with a science lesson one day (together max. 2 hours, though I would attempt to cut it down to an hour and half), and then next day 30ish minutes formal history lessons with 30ish minutes science reinforcement / practice (as science seems to be an interest) and/or an equally small chunk of that logic thing.

 

Flesh it out this way and you are done by 2-2.30 if you are efficient. :lol: Add in the typical dawdling and time wasting, you are just on time done by 3.

 

This may or may not be relevant for you, but I find that for regular fifth grade work - and if you combine things this way, you essentially have five areas to work on (native language, math, foreign languages, history with readings, science) - there is no reason why school would take more than about five hours. Now, if you are into serious literacy in multiple languages (rather than a regular foreign language course), intense academic interests, etc., then yes, some time sacrifices have to be made, but for regular fifth grade (albeit with somewhat intense curricula, I see AoPS and Henle there), it is enough.

Edited by Ester Maria
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Next yr my 5th grader will be doing the following:

 

writing/grammar/spelling/reading

math

Latin (only about 15 mins/day)

history

science

religion

 

 

Even my very advanced students don't do more than that. I have had 5th graders completing high school level coursework (alg and French) and they still didn't spend more than 5-5 1/2 hrs/day/5 days/wk.

 

I would not do 2 languages w/a 5th grader, nor would I study logic. I would incorporate vocab into our LA time frame. LA time might include vocab, grammar, poetry, spelling and w/o writing/reading and all those shouldn't take more than 30 mins combined (I personally would only do grammar and spelling daily out of the non-writing/reading list.)

 

I don't use writing texts w/my younger kids. They work on writing skills/assignments about 30 mins daily. Even if I were using a text, 30 mins of concentrated writing/day is what I would expect. (that is 2 1/2 hrs of concentrated writing/wk.....plenty of time for developing appropriate writing skills IME.) The key is making sure that the assignments match their ability and that assignments increase expectations appropriately w/their skills and constantly "push" their skills to the next level.

 

To each their own. But, high school length days come soon enough and childhood is gone and those hrs of freedom can never be recaptured b/c they are simply gone and full of teenage/adult responsibilities.

 

Thank you for your perspective :)

 

For us, 15 minutes a day of Latin won't be sufficient, by any means. And WWS and The Creative Writer (lighter on the latter) will be a core part of our curriculum. I absolutely agree that the key is making sure assignments match ability, and I work hard to achieve that. The issue I am coming up against is not assignments failing to match skills, but rather one of time. I do believe everything we're working on, or WILL be working on, is not busywork and "pushes" him at just the right pace, while allowing his confidence to grow. The issue is one of time....(since I do agree that they're only young once, and high school comes quickly enough!)

 

I think the solution will be to combine where possible. The WTM recommends the beginning of a foreign language, in addition to Latin, in 5th. We will definitely do "Spanish Lite" to start. SWB also recommends Logic for 3 hours (!) a week-we won't be doing that much. Building Thinking Skills takes an hour or so a week, and combined with chess and other logic games, I think it's sufficient. SWB also recommends 45 to 60 min of Mathematics, which is where we're at.

 

I listed all our LA subjects separately. You wrote "LA time might include vocab, grammar, poetry, spelling and w/o writing/reading and all those shouldn't take more than 30 mins combined"...Again, grammar takes about 20-30 minutes alone, and I can't see how that can be cut back--it's simply an integral part of our studies. Spelling is optional for my son, as is (perhaps?) vocab, so I can see cutting way back on those, perhaps alternating them weekly.

 

I appreciate your post-it gives me food for thought

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Thank you for your perspective :)

 

For us, 15 minutes a day of Latin won't be sufficient, by any means. And WWS and The Creative Writer (lighter on the latter) will be a core part of our curriculum. I absolutely agree that the key is making sure assignments match ability, and I work hard to achieve that. The issue I am coming up against is not assignments failing to match skills, but rather one of time. I do believe everything we're working on, or WILL be working on, is not busywork and "pushes" him at just the right pace, while allowing his confidence to grow. The issue is one of time....(since I do agree that they're only young once, and high school comes quickly enough!)

 

I think the solution will be to combine where possible. The WTM recommends the beginning of a foreign language, in addition to Latin, in 5th. We will definitely do "Spanish Lite" to start. SWB also recommends Logic for 3 hours (!) a week-we won't be doing that much. Building Thinking Skills takes an hour or so a week, and combined with chess and other logic games, I think it's sufficient. SWB also recommends 45 to 60 min of Mathematics, which is where we're at.

 

I listed all our LA subjects separately. You wrote "LA time might include vocab, grammar, poetry, spelling and w/o writing/reading and all those shouldn't take more than 30 mins combined"...Again, grammar takes about 20-30 minutes alone, and I can't see how that can be cut back--it's simply an integral part of our studies. Spelling is optional for my son, as is (perhaps?) vocab, so I can see cutting way back on those, perhaps alternating them weekly.

 

I appreciate your post-it gives me food for thought

 

I don't follow the WTM recommendations, so no help there. However, I am a very strong advocate of grammar studies and even so, I can't imagine 20+ mins/day every day. It really does not take that much time every day to study grammar extremely thoroughly.

 

Perhaps time reduction in certain areas would help? I know you say that they are integral parts of your studies, but even at the high school level, we don't spend 20 mins/day on grammar. An hour/day on Latin is high school equivalent level study IMO. So, I guess it boils down to whether or not you want to bring that level of intensity to 5th grade. If you do, you need to make sure you have your whys figured out for yourself and your child.

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I'd decide which subjects you'll include every single day, and which can alternate days with other subjects. For example, on our daily list are math (1 hr or so), WWS (30-60 min, depending on the assignment that day), Latin (whatever we have time for - 20-45 min), and history (45 min) - we have a four-day week with dd attending a one-day homeschool program (mostly specials and stuff - fluff - so I still try to squeeze in math on those days as well). Grammar we usually do daily also, but we're on a bit of a break in AG right now (probably 20 min). Subjects that alternate days in our house are vocab (we're also using Vocabulary Workshop, 15-20 min), logic (which has nearly fallen completely off the schedule at this point), and science. I feel like I'm forgetting something...

 

If you feel you must keep Spanish, I'd limit it to 15 minutes per day, which should be easy to do with the very flexible GSWS - as you get further along, maybe that's just a single lesson. With that book, I think short daily lessons will keep it fresher in his mind than long, twice-weekly ones. Otherwise, I'd hold off until next year.

 

I think you need to decide how to schedule writing - can you do WWS four days per week and the Creative Writer one day? I'd try something like that, but I know nothing of how the Creative Writer is set up.

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I don't follow the WTM recommendations, so no help there. However, I am a very strong advocate of grammar studies and even so, I can't imagine 20+ mins/day every day. It really does not take that much time every day to study grammar extremely thoroughly.

 

Perhaps time reduction in certain areas would help? I know you say that they are integral parts of your studies, but even at the high school level, we don't spend 20 mins/day on grammar. An hour/day on Latin is high school equivalent level study IMO. So, I guess it boils down to whether or not you want to bring that level of intensity to 5th grade. If you do, you need to make sure you have your whys figured out for yourself and your child.

 

 

Hmmm. We've switched to KISS for the time being (from GWG). GWG took 10 minutes to 15 minutes. KISS takes longer--our grammar discussions take about 15 minutes alone, never mind the worksheets. I think we may just need to do it less frequently than every day.

 

And you're absolutely right about knowing the "whys". I think we're on the right path for us, in terms of content. But I do think doing some sort of loop schedule (which we actually pretty much do already) is going to be useful. I think my concern, to be honest, comes primarily from history and science, not from grammar or spelling or vocab. I know that those subjects are going to be more intense in 5th grade. We plan on following WTM approach, and our discussions tend to be long-winded when we get started :tongue_smilie: and I hate to cut those short to "get to the next topic".

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If you feel you must keep Spanish, I'd limit it to 15 minutes per day, which should be easy to do with the very flexible GSWS - as you get further along, maybe that's just a single lesson. With that book, I think short daily lessons will keep it fresher in his mind than long, twice-weekly ones. Otherwise, I'd hold off until next year.

 

I think you need to decide how to schedule writing - can you do WWS four days per week and the Creative Writer one day? I'd try something like that, but I know nothing of how the Creative Writer is set up.

 

 

Yes, wapiti, i think GSWS will be very short and doable, if GSWL is any indication. I have to look closely at Creative Writer--it is not going to be our core writing curricula, and I am more than happy to spread it out over two years, so yes, that will be the one we would do less of.

 

Thanks for your input. I am feeling like this might be doable, but still not sure. I feel for sanity's sake, we're going to have to change our approach.

Edited by Halcyon
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how in the world we're going to fit it all in :tongue_smilie: With the release of The Creative Writer from PHP, which I know my son will love, I am in a pickle. Here's what's on the docket for 5th grade:

 

Latin: Henle Latin

Spanish: GSWS

Logic: Building Thinking Skills

Writing: WWS, The Creative Writer

Grammar: KISS plus diagramming (which he loves)

Spelling: Spelling Power (he's a natural speller, so this takes little time)

Vocabulary: Vocab Workshop (drop it, since we are learning a lot with Latin? My hesitation is that this seems to be one of the courses in which he is learning the most...)

Math: AoPS and MM

Reading: To go along with Ancients History

History: K12 Human Odyssey

Science: CPO Life Science with a little BFSU thrown in for diversion ;)

 

I know History and Science will require more time next year, time we want to commit. Math takes us an hour a day currently, and I see that remaining the same (we'll be taking AoPS as slowly as needed). Latin is going to take about 40 minutes a day.

 

I would like our day to run from 9-3 with one hour break. Is this doable? ...

 

I hate to say it; but I think it's doable, but may put you on the path to fast burnout. And lead to the longer days you don't want.

 

(BTW, did you read what I wrote on my Creative Writer thread, about letting my dd11 do it in her leisure time? I noticed you posted there and then came right here to type this all out after finding out about Creative Writer. :D All I've got to say about that is, don't panic!! :D I'm sure SWB didn't publish Creative Writer to add more stress to our lives, lol! :D)

 

Here are the things I would consider in making decisions:

 

- spelling - If he's a natural speller - has he mastered all the sounds of English? Has he mastered the spelling rules? Would he be able to use these in future words he may encounter, to learn how to spell them? If so, you could consider dropping spelling.

 

- vocab - If he's doing Henle Latin and reading widely throughout his content subjects, I'd drop vocab study. I say this after having my son do VfCR up until grade 7. Then we dropped it, much to my dismay, simply because I wasn't willing to extend his school hours. VfCR is a great program, he was learning to do analogies in it, he was learning more Latin roots as well as learning some Greek roots...but our Henle Latin study plus wide reading won out over continued vocab program study. But VfCR is such a nice and organized program....(see, I KNOW of what you speak when you speak of defending every single choice of yours!! I do this all the time to myself!!!!)

 

- pre-logic - why BTS? Why use something that "takes an hour or so a week" when you could use the WTM rec'd. MindBenders? :D They are fun, and if you got books A1-A4, you could do 2-3 puzzles per week and spend maybe 15 minutes a week. My son did them in grade 5, and they were good prep for the formal logic course later on. My daughter is doing them now in grade 5. They really do teach you how to start thinking carefully through a problem, but they don't take long to do.

 

- Creative Writer - could he do it for fun? Not required? After all, we don't know when the next level is coming out, so really, does it need to be done within a year's time? :D And even if we did know, and it was just in time for his grade 6 year, does something you just found out about last night NEED to be done in the year of grade 5?? :D

 

- Latin - I've got to check something on another recent Latin thread that I think I saw you posting on, and I may have something that will help you schedule-wise. But anyway, you are doing Henle with a 5th grader. I'm sure you've probably already seen Henle and realize what you are getting into, but do keep in mind that it is a rigourous high school course, and it may go slower than you hope with a 10yo (again, I'm going to check past posts to see what you've said about this, cuz I'm sure I've read about some of your goals). It is very involved the deeper you go. I'm sure, carefully done, that a bright 10yo could do it, though. But it is going to require careful thought from you, and careful analytical thought from him, and TIME. His mind will be very busy absorbing vocabulary and esp. grammar forms and grammar concepts. And lots of translation. And lots of talk about the Roman armies (which starts to drive you crazy after awhile, lol). Just know all that, because his mind will be BUSY with Henle. And busy minds get tired after awhile.

 

- Spanish - so I wrote all that about Latin to say some things about Spanish. I very much wanted to include Spanish study for my son when he was in grade 5, because of what the WTM said about that. I researched, bought The Learnables before I knew much about teaching language from the grammar-side of things rather than the immersion/conversational-side of things; and then bought SYRWTLS after researching a lot and asking questions of Laura Corin and Patty Joanna about its grammar focus. I figured out how to study SYRWTLS in the same way that we study Henle Latin (I started off with the MP guides, which were very helpful to me in figuring out a study pattern), and I implemented my Spanish Plan. I had flashcards made up, grammar forms all written out, I divided out the SYRWTLS 1 book pages so we could conquer it in 2-3 years, and we began. (this was alongside doing things like math/grammar/WTMish writing/vocab./Latin/pre-logic/WTMish lit.-sci.-hist., all of which kept his mind productively busy) My plan was working, and ds was learning Spanish alongside everything else. And you know what? We were busting to fit it in every day. Cuz it had to be a little bit, four days a week, or else he wouldn't learn it easily. I didn't want to do the "alternate with Latin" plan - it would have been too confusing, and too much breaking up of the schedule for me to handle. Cuz I also had another child to teach, who was struggling in some areas (reading and spelling, so THOSE took up time for me, too). We struggled along for a couple of months, cramming Spanish in to the end of the school day - learning well each bit that we studied, but ending up with no free time and much frustration. Cuz after all that math/grammar/writing/pre-logic/writing/content subjects, there were all the CORRECTIONS (math, writing, grammar diagrams, Latin mostly) from work produced each day!!!!! And I needed to get those done, handed back to my kids, and they needed to correct things before suppertime, cuz I was DEFINITELY not willing for those to "wait til the next day." We would have gotten further and further behind. So, after agonizing about it, regretting that "my kids won't be able to study a modern foreign language!!!" I finally decided to keep the Latin (cuz we'd already put in a couple of years of effort with it) and drop the Spanish (or any other foreign language besides Latin). Now, maybe you're not doing a grammar-intensive study of Spanish (I don't know what your acronym stands for), and it's more for fun, and that might work out. All I'm saying is that, esp. if you are tackling Henle Latin with a younger child, know that another grammar-intensive study of another language (on top of Latin AND English) could put you over the brink to insanity. Esp. if you are trying to do a good job with WTM-style study (math, writing, etc.).

 

OK, I've been typing so long that you've made a couple more replies...off to read them and your Latin posts. HTH

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Hmmm. We've switched to KISS for the time being (from GWG). GWG took 10 minutes to 15 minutes. KISS takes longer--our grammar discussions take about 15 minutes alone, never mind the worksheets. I think we may just need to do it less frequently than every day.

 

We spend 20 min tops on grammar (3 or 4 days per week). If that means just half a worksheet or just the text section then so be it. MCT does 2 sentences per day, so KISS at 10 per day is just too much for most days.

 

Ruth

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I hate to say it; but I think it's doable, but may put you on the path to fast burnout. And lead to the longer days you don't want.

 

(BTW, did you read what I wrote on my Creative Writer thread, about letting my dd11 do it in her leisure time?

 

Yes, this is what I'm thinking after chilling out. ;)

 

- spelling - If he's a natural speller - has he mastered all the sounds of English? Has he mastered the spelling rules? Would he be able to use these in future words he may encounter, to learn how to spell them? If so, you could consider dropping spelling.

 

I think so. He does one thing frequently wrong, which is forgetting to double the consonant when adding -ing or -ed. In other areas of spelling, he's fine. We will consider dropping spelling.

 

- vocab - If he's doing Henle Latin and reading widely throughout his content subjects, I'd drop vocab study. I say this after having my son do VfCR up until grade 7. Then we dropped it, much to my dismay, simply because I wasn't willing to extend his school hours. VfCR is a great program, he was learning to do analogies in it, he was learning more Latin roots as well as learning some Greek roots...but our Henle Latin study plus wide reading won out over continued vocab program study. But VfCR is such a nice and organized program....(see, I KNOW of what you speak when you speak of defending every single choice of yours!! I do this all the time to myself!!!!)

 

Glad to hear I'm not the only one who defends programs. Sigh. I think vocab will go.

 

pre-logic - why BTS? Why use something that "takes an hour or so a week" when you could use the WTM rec'd. MindBenders? :D They are fun, and if you got books A1-A4, you could do 2-3 puzzles per week and spend maybe 15 minutes a week. My son did them in grade 5, and they were good prep for the formal logic course later on. My daughter is doing them now in grade 5. They really do teach you how to start thinking carefully through a problem, but they don't take long to do.

 

Thank you-we chose BTS simply because I looked at it at a friend's and liked the look of it, and cursory searches here seemed to indicate that it was a good choice. We could go lighter on Logic, to be sure. According to WTM, 3 hours a week on Logic is "expected". Three HOURS. Hmmmm. I don't think so.

 

 

Creative Writer - could he do it for fun? Not required? After all, we don't know when the next level is coming out, so really, does it need to be done within a year's time? :D And even if we did know, and it was just in time for his grade 6 year, does something you just found out about last night NEED to be done in the year of grade 5?? :D

 

You're right. I think I may even put off Creative Writer, and continue using a loose interpretation of Bravewriter, which has really helped my son. There's no reason I have to use Creative Writer NOW. :tongue_smilie:

 

- Latin - I've got to check something on another recent Latin thread that I think I saw you posting on, and I may have something that will help you schedule-wise. But anyway, you are doing Henle with a 5th grader. I'm sure you've probably already seen Henle and realize what you are getting into, but do keep in mind that it is a rigourous high school course, and it may go slower than you hope with a 10yo (again, I'm going to check past posts to see what you've said about this, cuz I'm sure I've read about some of your goals). It is very involved the deeper you go. I'm sure, carefully done, that a bright 10yo could do it, though. But it is going to require careful thought from you, and careful analytical thought from him, and TIME. His mind will be very busy absorbing vocabulary and esp. grammar forms and grammar concepts. And lots of translation. And lots of talk about the Roman armies (which starts to drive you crazy after awhile, lol). Just know all that, because his mind will be BUSY with Henle. And busy minds get tired after awhile.

 

LOL. Yes, it's challenging but right now, it's working. Working very well, in fact. Both of us are enjoying it tremendously, but you're right, it DOES take time, and it requires an alert and focused mind, one that isn't drained from too much other work. This is where the multum non multa, to me, comes into play--What can Latin fulfill, academically? Vocab....word roots...logic?...patience :D....systematic, orderly thinking.....spelling, perhaps?....certainly grammar plays a big role, and we often "think" of our grammar in terms of Latin.

 

But in the end, you're right--BUSY is what comes to mind.

 

 

Spanish - so I wrote all that about Latin to say some things about Spanish. I very much wanted to include Spanish study for my son when he was in grade 5, because of what the WTM said about that. I researched, bought The Learnables before I knew much about teaching language from the grammar-side of things rather than the immersion/conversational-side of things; and then bought SYRWTLS after researching a lot and asking questions of Laura Corin and Patty Joanna about its grammar focus. I figured out how to study SYRWTLS in the same way that we study Henle Latin (I started off with the MP guides, which were very helpful to me in figuring out a study pattern), and I implemented my Spanish Plan. I had flashcards made up, grammar forms all written out, I divided out the SYRWTLS 1 book pages so we could conquer it in 2-3 years, and we began. (this was alongside doing things like math/grammar/WTMish writing/vocab./Latin/pre-logic/WTMish lit.-sci.-hist., all of which kept his mind productively busy) My plan was working, and ds was learning Spanish alongside everything else. And you know what? We were busting to fit it in every day. Cuz it had to be a little bit, four days a week, or else he wouldn't learn it easily. I didn't want to do the "alternate with Latin" plan - it would have been too confusing, and too much breaking up of the schedule for me to handle. Cuz I also had another child to teach, who was struggling in some areas (reading and spelling, so THOSE took up time for me, too). We struggled along for a couple of months, cramming Spanish in to the end of the school day - learning well each bit that we studied, but ending up with no free time and much frustration. Cuz after all that math/grammar/writing/pre-logic/writing/content subjects, there were all the CORRECTIONS (math, writing, grammar diagrams, Latin mostly) from work produced each day!!!!! And I needed to get those done, handed back to my kids, and they needed to correct things before suppertime, cuz I was DEFINITELY not willing for those to "wait til the next day." We would have gotten further and further behind. So, after agonizing about it, regretting that "my kids won't be able to study a modern foreign language!!!" I finally decided to keep the Latin (cuz we'd already put in a couple of years of effort with it) and drop the Spanish (or any other foreign language besides Latin). Now, maybe you're not doing a grammar-intensive study of Spanish (I don't know what your acronym stands for), and it's more for fun, and that might work out. All I'm saying is that, esp. if you are tackling Henle Latin with a younger child, know that another grammar-intensive study of another language (on top of Latin AND English) could put you over the brink to insanity. Esp. if you are trying to do a good job with WTM-style study (math, writing, etc.).

 

OK, I've been typing so long that you've made a couple more replies...off to read them and your Latin posts. HTH

 

 

Thank you for this, and for the reality check. Yes, I can absolutely see our days leaking into evenings...we school year round without a lot of breaks and....I don't know....I can't do it all. HE can't do it all, despite the fact that he rarely complains about the work. I appreciate all the work you did to get Spanish "ready to go". I can TOTALLY see doing that, being "invested" in making it work for your homeschool, and the difficulty in dropping it. GSWL takes about 15 minutes a day, so perhaps it will be different, but thank you for posting this. It's very helpful.

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And so I've just read a bunch of your Henle/Latin posts from June until now, and apparently you've got a really ambitious Latin-lover on your hands!! Wow! Well, way to go with Latin study with him! (I'd still be careful about the Spanish study, though, and consider the other study areas, too)

 

Here is what my 5th grade daughter is doing this year, in case it helps (I use WTM as a guide, too):

 

- R&S 6 math

- R&S 5 grammar

- WWS, plus one extra writing assignment per week, in history/science/literature

- MindBenders for pre-logic

- WRTR for spelling/cursive

- LCII for Latin (in prep for Henle I next year)

- memory work in history/science/literature

- reading/notetaking/experimenting/lab reports/timelining/mapwork in history/science/literature

- piano (15 min. per day, nothing intensive, just slow/steady progress)

- drawing (about an hour of skill-study/practice every three weeks)

 

oh, no, I think we are cross-posting again....:lol:

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Yes, this is what I'm thinking after chilling out. ;)

 

:lol: Well, of course you got excited - so did I, and I bought it instantly!! As soon as I saw it posted on Facebook! *I* want to take the course myself (but of course, don't have the time....).

 

I think so. He does one thing frequently wrong, which is forgetting to double the consonant when adding -ing or -ed. In other areas of spelling, he's fine. We will consider dropping spelling.

 

Aw, heck, this is something you can just keep reminding him of. You can also circle these types of mistakes in his writing, and have him write the word ten times. Tell him in advance that he will have to do that if he makes spelling errors. :D

 

Glad to hear I'm not the only one who defends programs. Sigh. I think vocab will go.

 

Oh yeah, I see the value in just about everything I read about in WTM. I want to DO IT ALL. But there isn't the time to.

 

Thank you-we chose BTS simply because I looked at it at a friend's and liked the look of it, and cursory searches here seemed to indicate that it was a good choice. We could go lighter on Logic, to be sure. According to WTM, 3 hours a week on Logic is "expected". Three HOURS. Hmmmm. I don't think so.

 

Remember - the schedules in WTM are there because the publishers requested them. I am sure SWB would agree that MindBenders doesn't take three hours. It just doesn't!!!! And apparently BTS doesn't, either. Besides, as you start teaching him to think logically in general (by asking more questions that require his thought, or starting to ask him to clearly defend his answers about something - "give me a clear reason why I should let you stay up until midnight on New Year's Eve"), you will be "doing logic" for more than three hours per week. You will start to regret ever wanting to teach your kids logic skills!!!! :lol:

 

You're right. I think I may even put off Creative Writer, and continue using a loose interpretation of Bravewriter, which has really helped my son. There's no reason I have to use Creative Writer NOW. :tongue_smilie:

 

 

 

LOL. Yes, it's challenging but right now, it's working. Working very well, in fact. Both of us are enjoying it tremendously, but you're right, it DOES take time, and it requires an alert and focused mind, one that isn't drained from too much other work. This is where the multum non multa, to me, comes into play--What can Latin fulfill, academically? Vocab....word roots...logic?...patience :D....systematic, orderly thinking.....spelling, perhaps?....certainly grammar plays a big role, and we often "think" of our grammar in terms of Latin.

 

yup. I don't know why it took me so long, but today as I was doing grammar with dd, I FINALLY clued in to the fact that three noun cases in Latin correspond with one noun case in English - the possessive.

 

But in the end, you're right--BUSY is what comes to mind.

 

 

 

 

 

Thank you for this, and for the reality check. Yes, I can absolutely see our days leaking into evenings...we school year round without a lot of breaks and....I don't know....I can't do it all. HE can't do it all, despite the fact that he rarely complains about the work. I appreciate all the work you did to get Spanish "ready to go". I can TOTALLY see doing that, being "invested" in making it work for your homeschool, and the difficulty in dropping it. GSWL takes about 15 minutes a day, so perhaps it will be different, but thank you for posting this. It's very helpful.

 

Oh, well, 15 minutes a day is doable! I guess it just depends on the type of program you are using. I wanted a Henle-style Spanish study, so that's what I made it. I figure they can mess around with conversational style foreign language on their own time for fun. :D

 

Oh well, good luck with your decisions!! Just give that boy some free time every day!:D

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And so I've just read a bunch of your Henle/Latin posts from June until now, and apparently you've got a really ambitious Latin-lover on your hands!! Wow! Well, way to go with Latin study with him! (I'd still be careful about the Spanish study, though, and consider the other study areas, too)

 

Here is what my 5th grade daughter is doing this year, in case it helps (I use WTM as a guide, too):

 

- R&S 6 math

- R&S 5 grammar

- WWS, plus one extra writing assignment per week, in history/science/literature

- MindBenders for pre-logic

- WRTR for spelling/cursive

- LCII for Latin (in prep for Henle I next year)

- memory work in history/science/literature

- reading/notetaking/experimenting/lab reports/timelining/mapwork in history/science/literature

- piano (15 min. per day, nothing intensive, just slow/steady progress)

- drawing (about an hour of skill-study/practice every three weeks)

 

oh, no, I think we are cross-posting again....:lol:

 

 

This sounds very similar to what we're planning.

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When I compare the list that you made for 5th grade with the list you have in your signature, it looks pretty similar. If you are currently getting everything done, then adding in the extra science/history work probably won't end up being a huge deal if you do it slowly.

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When I compare the list that you made for 5th grade with the list you have in your signature, it looks pretty similar. If you are currently getting everything done, then adding in the extra science/history work probably won't end up being a huge deal if you do it slowly.

 

Thanks for looking (and comparing!) My biggest issue, I think, is science and history. We're much more relaxed this year than we will be in the Logic Stage. Right now, for history, we read SOTW, read living books, answer questions from the AG, maybe do a map or project, and maybe do a narration. We talk, talk, talk. Every couple of weeks, my older will do a small "research" paper on someone of interest from our reading. For science, we alternate between BFSU and Core Knowledge, again, reading, experiments, talking, and lots of living books.

 

I feel like Logic will necessarily a bit more formal: labs, writeups, timelines, outlining, and will take more time. I just don't know _how much more_.

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I feel like Logic will necessarily a bit more formal: labs, writeups, timelines, outlining, and will take more time. I just don't know _how much more_.

 

For history and science on Fridays, here is what we do:

 

- read pages from Kingfisher

- write up a "list of facts" from one two-page spread

- put dates on timeline

- MapTrek map that is applicable

- look up place being studied on globe/atlas/wall map

- extra reading from encyclopedia or library book on topic of interest

 

- experiment

- lab writeup

- read from science spine

- timeline important discoveries/scientist birth and death dates if applicable to the current history year's timeline we have going

- put other dates on "date sheets" a la WTM recs

- extra reading as in history

 

- one WWS-style writing assignment in either history or science

 

This all takes about, I don't know, maybe three hours on a Friday? As well, Friday isn't the only day they do science and history reading - I include more science/history reading during their regular rest times after lunch each day (as well as literature reading). Talking about the reading can happen at any time during the week. But esp. when they are doing the writing assignment.

 

And then I further subdivide this by doing two weeks of history/science study on Fridays, and one week of art/music study on the third Friday. And so on.

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Thanks Colleen. I am impressed that it only takes you 3 hours to get all that done! We also use Fridays as our History and Science days, and our days usually run six hours on Fridays....a FUN six hours, but six nonetheless. And we do do reading during the week.

 

Maybe we're just inefficient :lol:

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Thanks Colleen. I am impressed that it only takes you 3 hours to get all that done!

 

Well, now, you have a good point. I was thinking about NOW, when ds has been doing this routine for four years. I am, at this moment, trying to remember how long it all took when he was in grade 5 and I was having to teach him HOW to do the list of facts (which I probably didn't actually start til he was in grade 6, lol!), how to do the maps, how to do the timeline, how to do the lab writeup, etc.. And of course, my grade 5 dd has watched him do it and has heard me talk about it all these years, so she picked it all up faster. So, it probably took us much longer back then!!!!!! Sorry about that! I wasn't thinking about what it was like back then.

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Well, now, you have a good point. I was thinking about NOW, when ds has been doing this routine for four years. I am, at this moment, trying to remember how long it all took when he was in grade 5 and I was having to teach him HOW to do the list of facts (which I probably didn't actually start til he was in grade 6, lol!), how to do the maps, how to do the timeline, how to do the lab writeup, etc.. And of course, my grade 5 dd has watched him do it and has heard me talk about it all these years, so she picked it all up faster. So, it probably took us much longer back then!!!!!! Sorry about that! I wasn't thinking about what it was like back then.

 

Yes, I am hoping as time passes that my boys will be able to do this sort of work more independently!

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I am appreciating this thread! I am planning a year VERY close to Colleen in NS for next year, yet have been stressing as much as OP. Thanks for posting this and replying, all of you!

 

I am also impressed that you have started so much research for next year. I just always can't face it until after Christmas. Before then it seems we are still working out the current year, then it is time for the holidays and a break. Then after Jan. I am in a routine and things are going smoothly, and then it is time to plan for buying at the convention in April. I am gleaning so much from those of you already preplanning so much for next fall! I confess I haven't even reread logic stage WTM in a couple of years.

 

I am mainly stressing because we have been in a once a week co-op for years. My kids love it. They get P.E. there and the occasional edu class. Mostly it is enrichment and social and fun, and I don't want to give it up. But I don't know how to do WTM 5th in 4 days. But I know that there is a year round schedule in WTM, so it can be done. I just haven't started planning it yet!

 

ok, enough rambling from me. Keep up the planning and sharing, so I can stay somewhat current....

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But I don't know how to do WTM 5th in 4 days.

 

I posted earlier about a 4 day week. I put all the difficult stuff in the 4 days, and then all the fun stuff on the weekend, so it does not seem like work. We also do a lot of history, science, and lit reading at night.

 

Ruth in NZ

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I have a 6th grader and a 3rd grader. I'm finding that I'm having to move some things to the weekend. While my 3rd grader gets a whole list of things done, my 6th grader may have 4 things done. Those 4 things take a big block of time. He's inefficient to say the least but still, grade 6 things take more time....outlining, cross-referencing several texts, writing, etc. I've moved some Latin work to the weekends. The boys like it so it's not torture for them. I'm also going to move some of our read-alouds to the weekend also.

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I posted earlier about a 4 day week. I put all the difficult stuff in the 4 days, and then all the fun stuff on the weekend, so it does not seem like work. We also do a lot of history, science, and lit reading at night.

 

Ruth in NZ

 

 

Thanks, I will be saving this post for later reference. It has been very eye opening for me as well as helping me to see it can be done!

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I have a 6th grader and a 3rd grader. I'm finding that I'm having to move some things to the weekend. While my 3rd grader gets a whole list of things done, my 6th grader may have 4 things done. Those 4 things take a big block of time. He's inefficient to say the least but still, grade 6 things take more time....outlining, cross-referencing several texts, writing, etc. I've moved some Latin work to the weekends. The boys like it so it's not torture for them. I'm also going to move some of our read-alouds to the weekend also.

 

This is an option. I've also told my son that homework will be happening in earnest next year. He does a bit this year (20 minutes every other night? not much LOL as I'm not a big fan of homework) or maybe it will just be weekend work.

 

Thanks.

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You can see the plethora of subjects my dd is covering in my siggy. We made it work in the following ways:

 

1. Dropped the spelling program. My dd is a good speller. I would pick up misspelled words from her writing and give her a spelling test about 4 times per year. She had usually learned to spell most of the words herself by the time I got around to giving her the tests. :D

 

2. Dropped vocabulary program but added "Words of the Week". I picked three vocabulary words (high level) to focus on each week. She'd find the definition for each (1 per day), then the last two days of school I would make her write one sentence for each and then verbally give two sentences for each. Then (and most importantly, I think), I'd get her to included at least 1-3 words from her vocabulary book into her writing projects (I still require this). That way it hardly took any time each day yet the words were getting consistently reviewed and practiced.

 

3. With four languages, I came to terms with the fact we wouldn't be able to move as quickly through them as I'd like (and others would). I'd like to be further ahead but she's been consistent in her studies so it's working out alright.

 

4. Decided to do R&S grammar verbally. If she really gets the concept, we do 2 questions verbally, and if she has a good, but not complete grasp we do every second question. The only time she writes is if I feel she hasn't understood it well enough and then I'll either get her to write answers to every second question or every question, depending on her level of understanding (or lack of it). This has really cut down the time we spend on grammar!

 

5. Science & history always seem to be the two hard ones. I make sure I schedule history but with science we try to get to it. Often it doesn't happen and science tends to get done in clumps. I'm aware that I'm going to have to change tactics in high school but for grammar and logic stage, I didn't stress if science didn't get done. If I had a science-oriented child, I would have reversed it and history would have suffered .....

 

6. I make sure to block off December to either catch up on subjects she's behind in ------ inevitably science and math ------ or to do something fun (this year it was TTC, the Fallacy Detective & Philosophy for Kids). Another year we took the month to cover A Child's Geography. It's a good way to break up the year and catch up at the same time.

 

7. With extra-curricular activities, I make sure we have at least two days per week where we have nowhere we have to be. This year both those days have been together and it's amazing how relaxed we feel with that rest, even while being quite busy overall.

 

8. I no longer stress about getting everything done. Somehow my dd manages to stay on track and I'm a much calmer teacher. ;)

 

I hope you manage to work out a schedule that fits for you. I know how you feel though ....... so much good curricula and ideas yet so little time ......:tongue_smilie:

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5. Science & history always seem to be the two hard ones. I make sure I schedule history but with science we try to get to it. Often it doesn't happen and science tends to get done in clumps. I'm aware that I'm going to have to change tactics in high school but for grammar and logic stage, I didn't stress if science didn't get done. If I had a science-oriented child, I would have reversed it and history would have suffered .....

 

Our routine is similar to Cleopatra's. But I only include the focus subjects in my siggy. I keep my siggy simple on purpose to force myself to focus on what I want to achieve every quarter. If we don't finish it, we just continue with it the next quarter. With our very math and science-oriented child, history has suffered but thanks to Netflix and various documentaries online, we catch up a little by watching history-themed shows in the weekend and on weekday evenings if he has worked hard and I feel he deserves the screen time.

 

My son is learning three foreign languages. German is his focus. We don't use a specific vocab/ grammar program so I rely on 20 mins of Latin a day to help him keep these areas in shape. He's a natural speller so we work on spelling only when we need to. He's juggling two and a half high school courses (Geometry, Physics and German) with grade level interests so I have to choose resources that multi-task. Otherwise, we'll lose it. For ease of scheduling, I organize our school day in three 2 hour blocks. 2 hours for math and science, 2 hours for German, Latin and read-alouds/ writing and 2 hours for things like PE, music practice, current events. Although it's 6 hours, it's only about 4 hours of actual "academic" work. Third language is for fun. So it's not scheduled.

 

But I have an only child so it's different I know. I wish I could do it all too. I swooned and drooled over The Creative Writer as well but I have to control the urge and focus on what we need to do right now. Not saying it's easy lol. I'm often tempted to add things.

 

I really need a Time Lord for Christmas.

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:bigear: I'll be putting together a 5th grade plan soon and I've already done some panicking in my head:tongue_smilie: I'm supposed to add two languages next year. I don't want to add time to our day so I'll have to figure out what to cut too.

 

I wish I could really allay your fears. The transition to 5th grade really is no different than moving a child from K to 1st or 1st to 2nd. Simply keep moving forward and developing appropriate skills.

 

There is no need to add 2 languages in a single yr. If your child really wants it, than there is no pressure b/c they typically grab hold and run w/it. But if your child is reluctant, there is no reason why they need 2 languages in 5th grade. My 7th grader loves languages. She has been doing them w/her older siblings since she was in 3rd grade. But you know what......this yr she asked me to separate her from her brother. She didn't want to move at his pace but simply have the freedom to move on her own. We even ended up altering French curriculum. She had been doing a combination of Breaking the Barrier, Tell Me More, and French in Action. After a vacation in Quebec, she decided she wanted to go more immersion vs. text and so she is now doing strictly French in Action and loving it. (Ds, OTOH, is focusing more on Breaking the Barrier, a grammar approach.)

 

This is the time for freedom to explore what you/they want, how you/they want. The time will come soon enough when their days are full of "have to's." High school is far more dictorial in content/hrs. There is no need to turn middle school into high school. (though I consider 5th grade elementary school and full of complete freedom and exploring w/wonder.)

 

FWIW, I burned out my oldest. I expected too much and dictated too much of our content. If you think it is hard to recover from burn out as an adult, it is triply hard for a child. There is really no need at all to expect lab write-ups and lists of other requirements from the 7th grade down crowd. My kids never write labs prior to high school level courses (which a couple have started in 8th grade w/zero difficulty) and have never had any problem w/them. Some things can be mastered simply when they are older vs. taking lots of time to master when younger.

 

Just my btdt thoughts for whatever they are worth.

Edited by 8FillTheHeart
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Cleopatra-thank you for your post! Your approach sounds similar to what I think ours will be: less focus on spelling, a few words of the week for vocab (I like that idea, and had been tossing something similar around in my head), more intensive focus on Languages. My son is mathy, so we will be doing AoPS along with some MM next year. But I am learning to accept that, if we plan on doing intensive Latin along with Spanish, we simply won't be able to move as quickly in Math as he can, and that's okay. Science will continue to be our sticking point, simply because time-wise, I know we could spend 10 hours a week on it and still not reach the immersion my son desires.

 

Thank you!

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I just wanted to say thank you for all of your BTDT comments on this. I struggle every year with how much is too much/enough, and I really do think that balance is important. I am constantly reminding myself that my 10 year old is still a child and needs a lot of free time to just BE. I think I do give her that, but then I have my moments every now and then where I start stressing that I should be giving her more on the scholastic side (but really, she's doing great and is very bright......it's just me worrying). It's so hard with ones oldest child. :) Anyway, thank you again for some perspective.

 

I wish I could really allay your fears. The transition to 5th grade really is no different than moving a child from K to 1st or 1st to 2nd. Simply keep moving forward and developing appropriate skills.

 

There is no need to add 2 languages in a single yr. If your child really wants it, than there is no pressure b/c they typically grab hold and run w/it. But if your child is reluctant, there is no reason why they need 2 languages in 5th grade. My 7th grader loves languages. She has been doing them w/her older siblings since she was in 3rd grade. But you know what......this yr she asked me to separate her from her brother. She didn't want to move at his pace but simply have the freedom to move on her own. We even ended up altering French curriculum. She had been doing a combination of Breaking the Barrier, Tell Me More, and French in Action. After a vacation in Quebec, she decided she wanted to go more immersion vs. text and so she is now doing strictly French in Action and loving it. (Ds, OTOH, is focusing more on Breaking the Barrier, a grammar approach.)

 

This is the time for freedom to explore what you/they want, how you/they want. The time will come soon enough when their days are full of "have to's." High school is far more dictorial in content/hrs. There is no need to turn middle school into high school. (though I consider 5th grade elementary school and full of complete freedom and exploring w/wonder.)

 

FWIW, I burned out my oldest. I expected too much and dictated too much of our content. If you think it is hard to recover from burn out as an adult, it is triply hard for a child. There is really no need at all to expect lab write-ups and lists of other requirements from the 7th grade down crowd. My kids never write labs prior to high school level courses (which a couple have started in 8th grade w/zero difficulty) and have never had any problem w/them. Some things can be mastered simply when they are older vs. taking lots of time to master when younger.

 

Just my btdt thoughts for whatever they are worth.

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I wish I could really allay your fears. The transition to 5th grade really is no different than moving a child from K to 1st or 1st to 2nd. Simply keep moving forward and developing appropriate skills.

 

There is no need to add 2 languages in a single yr. If your child really wants it, than there is no pressure b/c they typically grab hold and run w/it. But if your child is reluctant, there is no reason why they need 2 languages in 5th grade. My 7th grader loves languages. She has been doing them w/her older siblings since she was in 3rd grade. But you know what......this yr she asked me to separate her from her brother. She didn't want to move at his pace but simply have the freedom to move on her own. We even ended up altering French curriculum. She had been doing a combination of Breaking the Barrier, Tell Me More, and French in Action. After a vacation in Quebec, she decided she wanted to go more immersion vs. text and so she is now doing strictly French in Action and loving it. (Ds, OTOH, is focusing more on Breaking the Barrier, a grammar approach.)

 

This is the time for freedom to explore what you/they want, how you/they want. The time will come soon enough when their days are full of "have to's." High school is far more dictorial in content/hrs. There is no need to turn middle school into high school. (though I consider 5th grade elementary school and full of complete freedom and exploring w/wonder.)

 

FWIW, I burned out my oldest. I expected too much and dictated too much of our content. If you think it is hard to recover from burn out as an adult, it is triply hard for a child. There is really no need at all to expect lab write-ups and lists of other requirements from the 7th grade down crowd. My kids never write labs prior to high school level courses (which a couple have started in 8th grade w/zero difficulty) and have never had any problem w/them. Some things can be mastered simply when they are older vs. taking lots of time to master when younger.

 

Just my btdt thoughts for whatever they are worth.

 

Another note of thank you to you. Your posts have helped me define my own schooling philosophy for my ds.

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My view is that it is a matter of pros vs. cons, not a matter of worth vs. no worth. I find greater value in freedom to pursue individual interests than multiple languages and logic. I value certain aspects of childhood freedom over academics. It isn't that they don't have value: it is that I view their value as less valuable than going deeper into few things and less valuable than developing self-selected areas of interest.

 

:D It has taken me five years of homeschooling to pare my subjects down, yet now as an 8th grader, ds works harder and goes deeper than he ever has before. I couldn't have done it without a little help from my friends here.;)

 

My ds studies, algebra, language arts, science, history, Spanish, and an occasional fine arts lesson. I tend to make disciplines overlap to keep our time in control especially since ds moves at a snail's pace.

 

We work roughly 30 hours per week:

 

Algebra - 6 hours

Writing - 6 hours

Reading - 5 hours, plus an additional 5 outside of school hours

Science - 4.5 hours

Literary Analysis (this is our logic), grammar, vocabulary - 3.5 hours

History - 3.5 hours

Spanish - 1.5 hours

 

Art and music are often tied into history or science. Writing papers are across the curriculum. Currently, we take about 30-40 minutes a week to go over an essay and discuss in terms of a writing lesson. There are four other "mini-lessons" during the week to cover specific issues or problems. I think it is about an hour and a half on instruction and the rest of the time on writing. Every other Friday, we stretch our afternoon by watching a play, usually Shakespeare. We spend our time according to those subjects I deem most important.

 

With this child, I am constantly adapting. He likes to read the editorials and the PolitFact checks in the newspaper each morning. Editorials often replace a more traditional writing project. PolitiFacts have honed analysis and research skills, and as an added bonus, he's up to date on current events.

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