Would you let a 10 month old cry it out?

[txhomemom]

I pretty much don't believe in the CIO method, but both of my kids are complete opposites in how I had to approach this. For the first one, she always wanted to be near us, so we did cosleeping. The second one, not so much. She does not do well in the same bed or even the same room with us. Once we put her in her room and let her fuss for a couple of nights (we would go in there and check on her and what not, so she was not full out screaming), she was absolutely fine and I was able to finally get sleep after about 6 months of struggling.

 

I thought I would never get mine to sleep either, but you just have to find what works for each kid. I started putting books in my youngest dd's crib when she was around 15 months and she sometimes will read the books (there is a musical light in her crib) until she falls asleep or she will read them when she first gets up so I don't have to get her up right away in the morning (gives momma time to take a shower).

 

Anyway, it is better to solve the issue now rather than wait any longer, because I feel like I waited too long and lost a lot of sleep, stressed myself to no end, and now my dd loves sleeping in her own room and she is very independent in nature, I think she just needed her own space.

[KatieH]

Figure out what is wrong, co-sleep, do not let them cry it out. I knew a WALKING toddler that died from the parents letting her cry it out. The baby had gotten tangled in her covers and suffocated. The parents thought she was just being dramatic/fighting sleep/whatever and were following the CIO teaching.

 

That's...I'm not even sure what it is. Disgusting. Heartbreaking. Horrifying.

 

One of the reasons I don't understand the "shut the door and don't open it until morning, no matter what" mentality. I remember when dd1 was a baby and started wailing, I rushed in and her chubby little thigh was wedged in between the crib slats.

[mommaduck]

That's...I'm not even sure what it is. Disgusting. Heartbreaking. Horrifying.

 

One of the reasons I don't understand the "shut the door and don't open it until morning, no matter what" mentality. I remember when dd1 was a baby and started wailing, I rushed in and her chubby little thigh was wedged in between the crib slats.

I agree. At the very least, CHECK on your child. Pick them up and comfort them, try to put them back down, limit the amount of crying it out to 5min, and keep watching. That's the MINIMUM! Really, co-sleeping is very helpful. There was only one time that my husband made me let a baby cry for a bit. It was because I was seriously so exhausted that I nearly fell down the stairs. But the baby was in her crib, near our bed, and I was able to keep an eye on her, calm her down, put her back down, calm her down, put her back down, etc...she went to sleep and then I collapsed in my own bed (I was seriously too tired and low on iron to take her to bed with me that day...it would not have been safe for her)

[Bluegoat]

No. 10 month old children are coming to the awareness that it is possible for them to crawl away from the parent and for the parent to leave them. They are beginning to realize their separate identity from the parent and acknowledge the parent's absence. This developmental stage is often a trigger for nighttime fears. Reinforcing your ever-presence and providing comfort is important. This too shall pass (and then we will miss it).

 

:iagree:

 

Yeah, all of my kids ad separation issues at that age as well. I would not be at all surprised if they are connected. Which seems to make CIO about the worst idea - it would make them even more fearful, not reassure them.

[meggie]

Thanks for all the help everyone. She is behind on eating solids, which is one reason I've not felt a need to CIO. I figure she can just nurse as much as she wants. Only it is starting to take a toll on me. She's recently started wanting to eat more solids, so we'll work on that. Once she's ready to night wean, I'll try rocking her for ten minutes. We don't have another room we can move her to yet. We only have two bedrooms and we can't put her pack n play in with the boys; there's not enough space. Once Digby is older, we can get a bunk bed and put her in the crib in there. For now, she's stuck with us. She won't take a binky anymore; they make her mad.

[SKL]

One of the reasons I don't understand the "shut the door and don't open it until morning, no matter what" mentality. I remember when dd1 was a baby and started wailing, I rushed in and her chubby little thigh was wedged in between the crib slats.

 

I don't know what "the CIO teaching" is, but to my knowledge, it does not include ignoring your baby's distress cry (which parents should be able to recognize).

 

Sometimes I think that one of the reasons people do "controversial" things like CIO wrong is because we're often afraid to talk about it openly, as a valid option in the first place. Maybe it does need to be stated that you don't ignore a distress cry ever - so let's talk about it. I have been glad to see that many moms here are open to the discussion.

[JeneralMom]

I have a dear friend who nursed, co-sleeps, etc and her now 4yo would wake up 5 or 6 times per night when she was the same age as your child. It took months for them to figure out, but my friend and her DH, in desperation one night, feed her almost a full meal and the little dear went back to sleep and stayed asleep. The first time she woke the next night, they feed her a protein-filled mini-meal and the same thing. For whatever reason, she just gets so hungry at that time and needs a mini-meal. She still wakes up sometimes (at the same time as she used to) and has to have a meal.

 

Personally, I would never let a child cry it out.

[*Jessica*]

I want to share a link to a Psychology Today blog post from yesterday that a FB friend just posted, titled Dangers of “Crying It Out”.

[2squared]

I don't know what "the CIO teaching" is, but to my knowledge, it does not include ignoring your baby's distress cry (which parents should be able to recognize).

 

Sometimes I think that one of the reasons people do "controversial" things like CIO wrong is because we're often afraid to talk about it openly, as a valid option in the first place. Maybe it does need to be stated that you don't ignore a distress cry ever - so let's talk about it. I have been glad to see that many moms here are open to the discussion.

 

:iagree: I can tell the difference between a distress cry, an "I'm bored" cry, and a "I just really need you" cry. If parents can't tell the difference, then they aren't ready to CIO.

 

My babies at that age don't sleep with objects in their cribs either.

[mommymilkies]

I wouldn't, but I know others will disagree. My dd did the same thing around that age, and it was usually either teething, or growth spurts, or ear infections, and I wouldn't want to leave a baby that's potentially in pain to cry it out.

 

ETA: Do you co-sleep? That might be a good temporary solution.

 

:iagree:

 

Check out the No Cry Sleep Solution. It helps. I never, ever let my kids cry it out if I can help it (obviously sometimes they're sick and no matter what you do, they're gonna cry!).

[momma aimee]

No, I would not. If I were crying at night and my husband ignored me, I would be devastated. I can't imagine doing that to my babies.

 

Wishing you some restful nights with a happy, sleeping baby. :grouphug:

 

:iagree:

[houseofkids&pets]

:iagree:I also agree with MelanieM. As grouchy as I am without sleep, I could not handle hearing my baby cry and not responding. It made me cry.

[keptwoman]

I don't know what "the CIO teaching" is, but to my knowledge, it does not include ignoring your baby's distress cry (which parents should be able to recognize).

 

Sometimes I think that one of the reasons people do "controversial" things like CIO wrong is because we're often afraid to talk about it openly, as a valid option in the first place. Maybe it does need to be stated that you don't ignore a distress cry ever - so let's talk about it. I have been glad to see that many moms here are open to the discussion.

:iagree:

:iagree: I can tell the difference between a distress cry, an "I'm bored" cry, and a "I just really need you" cry. If parents can't tell the difference, then they aren't ready to CIO.

 

My babies at that age don't sleep with objects in their cribs either.

 

:iagree:

[plansrme]

Oh fine, I will be the dissenter here. YES, I would let her cry it out if I thought it was a habit and not real distress. When my then 14 WEEK old daughter started waking up again after sleeping through the night for 6 weeks, I put up with it for a week or so. Then I moved into her room for the night. When she cried, I stood over her, rubbed her back, talked to her, cried myself and told my husband that the next night was his. But I did not pick her up. I wanted her to know that I was there but not to pick her up. And you know what? There was no next nignt. She is 14 now and has slept through the night ever since. ETA: She cried for most of that night. It was awful, but it was worth it.

 

There is NO way that I could go for years with children waking up during the night.

 

Terri

[AnnaM]

It would depend on the type of cry for me. I had a child who did fuss herself to sleep on occassion but I could completely tell the difference between needing me and just soothing herself. I also timed it. I never let her go for more than 10 minutes. Usually if I went in to comfort her she would just start all over. I used to think I was going to damage my child by letting her fuss it out a bit, but honestly, she has no recollection of it at all and our "bond" is just fine. In fact I have three of the best sleepers ever.

 

I have cried myself to sleep for various reasons and most of the time I really just need to be left alone.

 

My 3 year old will often refuse to let anyone into his room to comfort him because he just needs to be alone. I think YOU know your child best and you have to go with what feels right.

[momma aimee]

I wouldn't. If they started crying, I waited 15-20 minutes to see if they could calm down. If not, I went in. However, I don't have a high tolerance for the crying. It puts me on edge. I would go in comfort. Once clamed down I would leave. I did lightly jiggling while swaddling (although for 10 months blanket covering face worked) swaying and shushing. It would calm them down. I read somewhere no matter what you do you need to give it 5-10 minutes because that is how long it takes for the calming message to get to the brain of the baby.

 

10 to 15 minutes IS cry it out -- do you wabnt to cry for 20 minutes while yur DH sits on the other side of the door to see if you'll "stop it"

[momma aimee]

Oh fine, I will be the dissenter here. YES, I would let her cry it out if I thought it was a habit and not real distress. When my then 14 WEEK old daughter started waking up again after sleeping through the night for 6 weeks, I put up with it for a week or so. Then I moved into her room for the night. When she cried, I stood over her, rubbed her back, talked to her, cried myself and told my husband that the next night was his. But I did not pick her up. I wanted her to know that I was there but not to pick her up. And you know what? There was no next nignt. She is 14 now and has slept through the night ever since. ETA: She cried for most of that night. It was awful, but it was worth it.

 

There is NO way that I could go for years with children waking up during the night.

 

Terri

 

glad to know your parenting is about YOU, my parenting is about my kids.

 

Glad you have never had a SN child. I did 4 years up every 45 minutes, and I am still up ever 2 hours .. it is called parenting, i do what i have to do -- not everything is picture perfect like a cute post card --

 

I really hope you never have a SN child -- it is not about YOU -- it is about the kid

[plansrme]

glad to know your parenting is about YOU, my parenting is about my kids.

 

Glad you have never had a SN child. I did 4 years up every 45 minutes, and I am still up ever 2 hours .. it is called parenting, i do what i have to do -- not everything is picture perfect like a cute post card --

 

I really hope you never have a SN child -- it is not about YOU -- it is about the kid

 

Did the OP mention special needs? Hmmm, no, don't think so. She asked if anyone would let a 10 month old cry it out. I said "yes," and your accusations about my character and my parenting are completely baseless. But I am glad you feel so superior about your parenting commitment; obviously you love your children more than I love mine. Feel even better now? Great. Glad I could help.

 

:chillpill:

 

Terri

[TammyinTN]

I couldn't stand hearing any of my children cry....so no. I also let them sleep with us too.;)

[MBM]

glad to know your parenting is about YOU, my parenting is about my kids.

 

Glad you have never had a SN child. I did 4 years up every 45 minutes, and I am still up ever 2 hours .. it is called parenting, i do what i have to do -- not everything is picture perfect like a cute post card --

 

I really hope you never have a SN child -- it is not about YOU -- it is about the kid

 

To do a good job parenting, a parent must be somewhat well and rested, no? I once was so tired, I fell asleep on the john while p**ing in the middle of the day. I happened to also be doing dishes (filling the sink with water thinking I'd only be a minute or so) and the sink overflowed and leaked through the roof of the condo below us. I had no idea until a maintenance man pounded on my door to see what was going on. LOL! Those were the days. :D

To the OP, look through Marc Weissbluth's book and see what might help. He was our ped for years, and I found that keeping a sleep log helped us a great deal.

Good luck. Try to get some sleep!

[Susan in TN]

Nearly all my babies did this around that age. :glare:

 

A friend recommended The Baby Whisperer and while I had to endure 2 or 3 nights of sleeplessness (which really wasn't much different than before trying the method), my babies returned to sleeping through the night. I don't know that I agree with all the author's ideas or premises, but ss long as they were gaining weight and eating plenty during the day, and I couldn't find any other issue, it was a gentle enough "method" for me to endure - I really hadn't the mental energy to let them cry it out cold turkey.

[5LittleMonkeys]

glad to know your parenting is about YOU, my parenting is about my kids.

 

Glad you have never had a SN child. I did 4 years up every 45 minutes, and I am still up ever 2 hours .. it is called parenting, i do what i have to do -- not everything is picture perfect like a cute post card --

 

I really hope you never have a SN child -- it is not about YOU -- it is about the kid

 

Issues much?

 

Your tone earlier made me bristle up but I ignored it however, the first part of this post makes it clear that you obviously feel that anyone who takes measures to train their child to be able to go back to sleep on their own is selfish and doesn't care as much about their dc as you apparently do.

 

If allowing variations on CIO are so horrendous how do you explain all of the people here who have done it and had great success with it. I don't think anyone has mentioned having to do it for longer that a few nights and as of yet none of us have had issues with our children being emotionally damaged because of the actions we took.

 

I'm sorry that you haven't had a solid night sleep in 4 years but just because you have endured it doesn't mean everyone should or that they are less of a parent if they find a way that prevents them from having to.

[5LittleMonkeys]

10 to 15 minutes IS cry it out -- do you wabnt to cry for 20 minutes while yur DH sits on the other side of the door to see if you'll "stop it"

 

The difference is that my dh knows I'm not doing it for attention.

[Heidi]

I would let the child cry it out.

[chepyl]

glad to know your parenting is about YOU, my parenting is about my kids.

 

Glad you have never had a SN child. I did 4 years up every 45 minutes, and I am still up ever 2 hours .. it is called parenting, i do what i have to do -- not everything is picture perfect like a cute post card --

 

I really hope you never have a SN child -- it is not about YOU -- it is about the kid

 

Sometimes parenting has to be about the parent. You can't properly care for your kids if you are sleep deprived or hungry. I could not handle my kids crying, but 10 minutes of fussing while they fell asleep was fine. DD slept with us until she was two so that 'I' could get enough sleep. We had a pool and an hour of driving daily at the time. I had to be well rested to keep my babies safe.

 

If the OP needs to sleep to be a better parent who can keep her children safe, letting the baby cry a bit is fine. I would make sure the child knows you are around, but do what you need to sleep. Sleep deprivation leads to slowed reaction times, with a 10 month old, you need quick reflexes.

[MelanieM]

The difference is that my dh knows I'm not doing it for attention.

 

So if you're crying because of a bad dream or a toothache, then that's a good enough reason and not a "just for attention" reason, and your husband should respond? What if your baby has an equally valid reason, but simply can't explain it to you? Or are the only valid reasons for crying those that involve obvious injury? Serious question.

 

I have a really hard time understanding the viewpoint that crying babies are simply being manipulative and should be ignored until they get over it. (Not saying anyone used these exact words on this thread, but that's the vibe I get from pro-CIO folks.)

[MelanieM]

The difference is that my dh knows I'm not doing it for attention.

 

Also, imagine for a minute that someone came here and posted to say that last night she was upset and laying in bed crying, feeling like she needed a hug, and asked her husband for a little attention but the husband patted her on the back and left the room without a word. I'm willing to bet big dollars that people would respond with outrage on the part of the abandoned wife, and not many would be suggesting she simply stop crying for attention and learn to sooth herself already.

[SKL]

Also, imagine for a minute that someone came here and posted to say that last night she was upset and laying in bed crying, feeling like she needed a hug, and asked her husband for a little attention but the husband patted her on the back and left the room without a word. I'm willing to bet big dollars that people would respond with outrage on the part of the abandoned wife, and not many would be suggesting she simply stop crying for attention and learn to sooth herself already.

 

Sigh. The difference is that unlike adults, babies cry for all kinds of things, many of which (depending on the child) are not traumatic at all - i.e., many of which the child does need to just get over. AND parents can tell when the baby is crying over something actually traumatic.

 

Also, crying is some babies' way of bringing themselves down from over-stimulation so they can sleep. Giving them attention is counterproductive since it keeps stimulating them.

 

And unlike babies, the chances that a grown woman is going to cry just because it got her some attention last time are pretty slim. Babies, on the other hand, often learn that crying is a tool for getting attention when they don't actually need it. (Some alone time for a baby is healthy.)

 

One thing I noticed - anti-CIO folks often seem to forget the fact that babies actually benefit from sleep, and the more the better. A baby who has been allowed to be up most of the night is not learning/growing at an appropriate pace and is generally not as happy, day or night, as he could otherwise be. Many kids whose parents refuse CIO on the principal that it's "for the parents" have kids who go for years crying instead of sleeping. How that is better than a few nights of sleep training is beyond me.

 

I understand that CIO is not needed by many, and not appropriate for some babies. But I think it's great that millions of parents have found this opportunity to trade maybe an hour of crying over a few days for years of sleep problems that affect the whole family.

[meggie]

So if you're crying because of a bad dream or a toothache, then that's a good enough reason and not a "just for attention" reason, and your husband should respond? What if your baby has an equally valid reason, but simply can't explain it to you? Or are the only valid reasons for crying those that involve obvious injury? Serious question.

 

I have a really hard time understanding the viewpoint that crying babies are simply being manipulative and should be ignored until they get over it. (Not saying anyone used these exact words on this thread, but that's the vibe I get from pro-CIO folks.)

 

Well, I can't speak for her or any other pro-CIO people, just my own experience. When Pigby was little, he cried it out a few times. I never thought of him as trying to manipulate me. He was just overtired and got angrier every time I tried to help him. However, when he was a toddler, he went through something where he was absolutely inconsolable at night. If I brought him to bed with me, he'd just thrash around screaming hysterically. If I gave him a cup of water, he'd throw it. If I tried rocking him, he'd climb all over while still screaming hysterically. The only thing that got him to calm down was watching a Veggie Tales. So I'd put a movie in and let him watch then put him back without any problem. After a few days of this, he'd wake up without the hysterics, but just want to watch a Veggie Tale. I still wouldn't call it manipulation, I just called it habit. When I told him no, he'd cry. I'd try comforting him, but to no avail. He wanted Veggie Tales. Well, I could see no other option than just crying it out, so he did for one night. He stopped waking up to ask for Veggie Tales.

 

With Digby, only in my crazy state did I think ill things of him. When I was rational, I knew he was just a baby incapable of doing it on purpose.

[mommaduck]

My responses in red.

 

Sigh. The difference is that unlike adults, babies cry for all kinds of things, many of which (depending on the child) are not traumatic at all - i.e., many of which the child does need to just get over. AND parents can tell when the baby is crying over something actually traumatic.

 

So a six month old should just "get over themselves"?

 

Also, crying is some babies' way of bringing themselves down from over-stimulation so they can sleep. Giving them attention is counterproductive since it keeps stimulating them.

 

True, but not to be left alone without someone checking on them. If it's continual, it's not a "calming down", it's a "working up" which can be traumatic if left without the parent calming them down. The best thing in many cases is to sit and rock the baby gently in a quiet and dark area.

 

And unlike babies, the chances that a grown woman is going to cry just because it got her some attention last time are pretty slim. Babies, on the other hand, often learn that crying is a tool for getting attention when they don't actually need it. (Some alone time for a baby is healthy.)

 

Oh yes, the whole "babies are master manipulators" view (enter Pearl, Gothard, Ezzo & Co.). To burst your bubble about crying being used by your "little sinner", crying is a babies FIRST, and often ONLY, form of COMMUNICATION! It's how they state that they NEED something, even if it's only your attention, comfort, or reminder of your presence. They can be scared and not able to communicate it in any other way...and it would appear that they "don't actually need (your attention)".

 

One thing I noticed - anti-CIO folks often seem to forget the fact that babies actually benefit from sleep, and the more the better. A baby who has been allowed to be up most of the night is not learning/growing at an appropriate pace and is generally not as happy, day or night, as he could otherwise be. Many kids whose parents refuse CIO on the principal that it's "for the parents" have kids who go for years crying instead of sleeping. How that is better than a few nights of sleep training is beyond me.

 

Recent studies have shown that babies that sleep "through the night" are at higher risk of SIDS. Waking up periodically for a baby is NORMAL and HEALTHY for them. I was CIO and the brother I was raised with was CIO. I continued crying and he didn't. There's more to that factor than if a child is CIO'd. I was told that babies who co-slept would have trouble transferring to their own beds. I've found very rare cases where this was true. I have eight kids. Proof is in the pudding. I didn't CIO my kids; those that cry more are due to personality, not whether they CIO'd or not. I co-slept with all my kids. They ALL transferred to their own beds just fine. The Ezzos used to say that carrying a baby (sling/wrap/cradleboard) was "barbaric and uncivilised" and that it interfered with development (physical/emotional/mental); that theory has been proven, not only wrong, but, the quite the opposite.

 

I understand that CIO is not needed by many, and not appropriate for some babies. But I think it's great that millions of parents have found this opportunity to trade maybe an hour of crying over a few days for years of sleep problems that affect the whole family.

 

Again, please see my warning. One of my former pastors lost a grandchild this way.

 

[scrappyhappymama]

The difference is that my dh knows I'm not doing it for attention.

 

<deleted snarky comment> :glare: Suffice it to say, I am not a believer in manipulative intent in babies.

 

 

I'm sorry, but "I've let my child CIO and they are totally fine" does not fly with me.

 

My parents drove me home from the hospital as a newborn in a Moses basket on the back seat. I used to jump up and down while standing on the hump in the back of my grandma's car. I lived to tell about it! Yet, statistically we now know, through much research, that babies and children are much safer riding in car seats.

 

Many of our grandmothers or great-grandmothers probably smoked or drank while pregnant. I'm sure it "worked" to calm their nerves and to relax. But of course now we know, because of numerous studies, that these behaviors can have devastating effects on the babies involved.

 

FWIW, I let my first baby CIO. I know that it "works." I used to spend hours on another forum defending it. But, some dear friends introduced me to another perspective AND had the research available to back it up. I am forever grateful to them for speaking up.

 

Research consistently shows that CIO is not healthy for babies and can have long term physical and emotional effects. Here is just one article full of research citations: http://www.askdrsears.com/topics/fussy-baby/science-says-excessive-crying-could-be-harmful

 

It is not about guilt tripping any parent- we've all been there and know how hard it can be sometimes. All babies cry, but not all babies have to be left to CIO. When you know better, you do better.

Edited December 13, 2011 by scrappyhappymama
because I should not type out everything I think.

[5LittleMonkeys]

Okay, here it is plain and simple.

 

In MY situation, my dc were not in pain, hungry, scared, too hot, too cold or any of the other excuses some of you are coming up with for why they were crying. Waking and crying had become HABIT because for weeks prior to this they would wake, cry and momma would come running and hold them and sing to them and cuddle and comfort them. (Yes, I do love my dc and I'm not some uncaring, unfeeling ogre who ignores her children because of my selfish desire to sleep) Of coarse they learned really quickly that this was much more enjoyable than just laying in their bed and having to go back to sleep. IT WAS HABIT AND IT WAS THEIR WAY OF GETTING SOMETHING THEY FOUND ENJOYABLE.

 

My dc could not co-sleep. They would stay awake and want to play, sing, talk and move around. My husband was gone at the time and I had no one to help. It got to the point that I was leaving the stove on during the day, leaving the front door open, falling asleep while reading a book to my dc...it wasn't safe. I did what I felt was in the best interest of my dc at the time and I do not regret it.

 

If it was such a horrendous experience for my dc how do you explain that within days they had learned to go back to sleep on their own. They aren't traumatized, don't have separation issues, don't have abandonment issues.

 

I am really amazed that some can't accept the fact that the method I described using, used wisely and compassionately is effective for some dc. What works for some won't work for others. Co-sleeping was a complete fail for us but you haven't seen me bad-mouthing and preaching the dangers and pitfalls of doing so...I'm sure I could come up with oodles of books and articles saying how co-sleeping is harmful or bad. How many times have I heard of dc being suffocated because parents roll over on them!

 

I am horribly offended that some of you think you are a better parent or that you must love your dc much more than those who have chosen to deal with these sleep issues differently. EVERYONE IN THIS THREAD LOVES THEIR CHILDREN AND ARE GOOD PARENTS. Why can't some of you accept that variations of CIO are effective for some dc when used wisely and in love just as you accept that sometimes co-sleeping is the best solution?

[mommaduck]

5LM, no one is saying you are a bad parent. We are saying that some of the reasoning put out initially doesn't hold water.

 

On co-sleeping and suffocation, every case I have known has been due to other hazards, not due to co-sleeping itself.

[SKL]

My responses in red.

 

We could of course get into the fact that co-sleeping is more frequently associated with infant death than sleeping through the night and lots of other things put together. But I will refrain from invoking scare-mongering statistics when common sense application trumps them (in the case of both CIO and co-sleeping).

[meggie]

Okay, here it is plain and simple.

 

In MY situation, my dc were not in pain, hungry, scared, too hot, too cold or any of the other excuses some of you are coming up with for why they were crying. Waking and crying had become HABIT because for weeks prior to this they would wake, cry and momma would come running and hold them and sing to them and cuddle and comfort them. (Yes, I do love my dc and I'm not some uncaring, unfeeling ogre who ignores her children because of my selfish desire to sleep) Of coarse they learned really quickly that this was much more enjoyable than just laying in their bed and having to go back to sleep. IT WAS HABIT AND IT WAS THEIR WAY OF GETTING SOMETHING THEY FOUND ENJOYABLE.

 

My dc could not co-sleep. They would stay awake and want to play, sing, talk and move around. My husband was gone at the time and I had no one to help. It got to the point that I was leaving the stove on during the day, leaving the front door open, falling asleep while reading a book to my dc...it wasn't safe. I did what I felt was in the best interest of my dc at the time and I do not regret it.

 

If it was such a horrendous experience for my dc how do you explain that within days they had learned to go back to sleep on their own. They aren't traumatized, don't have separation issues, don't have abandonment issues.

 

I am really amazed that some can't accept the fact that the method I described using, used wisely and compassionately is effective for some dc. What works for some won't work for others. Co-sleeping was a complete fail for us but you haven't seen me bad-mouthing and preaching the dangers and pitfalls of doing so...I'm sure I could come up with oodles of books and articles saying how co-sleeping is harmful or bad. How many times have I heard of dc being suffocated because parents roll over on them!

 

I am horribly offended that some of you think you are a better parent or that you must love your dc much more than those who have chosen to deal with these sleep issues differently. EVERYONE IN THIS THREAD LOVES THEIR CHILDREN AND ARE GOOD PARENTS. Why can't some of you accept that variations of CIO are effective for some dc when used wisely and in love just as you accept that sometimes co-sleeping is the best solution?

:iagree: with everything you've said. Thank you. And if it matters, I don't think you are a horrible parent. I think sleep deprivation can take a terrible toll on a person and it's not always something that can just be overcome through sheer will. I will try some other things first to see if it will help, but if it comes to CIO, I will use it if I have to. Someone on the boards a few days ago talked about how when they gave themselves permission to take an easier road, they found the strength to try the harder road again. I guess it's what happened to me. Everyone who gave me "permission" to CIO made me feel better, but I've found the strength to wait on it. So I just want to say thank you for your help.

[SKL]

<deleted snarky comment> :glare: Suffice it to say, I am not a believer in manipulative intent in babies.

 

 

Seems to me you also don't believe that parents can distinguish their babies' cries.

[plansrme]

5LM, no one is saying you are a bad parent. We are saying that some of the reasoning put out initially doesn't hold water.

 

On co-sleeping and suffocation, every case I have known has been due to other hazards, not due to co-sleeping itself.

 

Yes, in fact, someone IS saying that. She said it about me a page or so back. See the posts from momma aimee. Who perhaps would not be so grouchy if she had a little sleep.

 

Terri (who cannot believe how heated this thread has become and thinks perhaps we all could use a nap)

[mommaduck]

We could of course get into the fact that co-sleeping is more frequently associated with infant death than sleeping through the night and lots of other things put together. But I will refrain from invoking scare-mongering statistics when common sense application trumps them (in the case of both CIO and co-sleeping).

 

.

 

On co-sleeping and suffocation, every case I have known has been due to other hazards, not due to co-sleeping itself.

:001_smile:

[SKL]

:001_smile:

 

Your comment is equally true of the fear-mongering comments you posted about the deadly dangers of CIO.

[5LittleMonkeys]

:iagree: with everything you've said. Thank you. And if it matters, I don't think you are a horrible parent. I think sleep deprivation can take a terrible toll on a person and it's not always something that can just be overcome through sheer will. I will try some other things first to see if it will help, but if it comes to CIO, I will use it if I have to. Someone on the boards a few days ago talked about how when they gave themselves permission to take an easier road, they found the strength to try the harder road again. I guess it's what happened to me. Everyone who gave me "permission" to CIO made me feel better, but I've found the strength to wait on it. So I just want to say thank you for your help.

 

I'm glad that you have been able to settle on a path that you think is best for you and your dc right now. Here's to hoping you (and baby) can get a full nights rest soon!:grouphug:

[5LittleMonkeys]

Yes, in fact, someone IS saying that. She said it about me a page or so back. See the posts from momma aimee.

 

This.

[mommaduck]

Your comment is equally true of the fear-mongering comments you posted about the deadly dangers of CIO.

What fear-mongering? I mentioned an incident that I had personal knowledge of and a recent study about how periodic waking at night was normal and healthy for infants, including that one of the benefits is the lower risk of SIDS. No fear-mongering intended, simply information that should be taken into consideration.

 

Wow, you really haven't taken the time to get to know me on this board to act like anything I said was attacking. Did you read ALL my posts on this thread?

Edited December 13, 2011 by mommaduck

[Lily_Grace]

We could of course get into the fact that co-sleeping is more frequently associated with infant death than sleeping through the night and lots of other things put together. But I will refrain from invoking scare-mongering statistics when common sense application trumps them (in the case of both CIO and co-sleeping).

 

SIDS used to be called crib death. There are no stats that show the percentage of deaths in safe cosleeping because even if the situation is unsafe it's all lumped together.

 

CIO has been proven to do brain damage. The stress level rises, bringing up the cortisol level to damaging amounts. Crying itself doesn't cause this, but being in a stressful situation does, and for many infants CIO is stressful. They are alone with limited mobility and have the memory of gnats. They are not sure yet if or when a parent is coming back. The rise of cortisol and adrenaline they experience limits nerve development and suppresses tissue growth.

 

When the Groundhog was about 10 months I was so tired. His night wakings increased and had a holding pattern of every two hours. We ended up using the No Cry Sleep Solution, an amber necklace, and putting an air mattress next to his crib to help him get to sleep on his own.

 

It doesn't have to be all or nothing. Dh and I downsized our bed and didn't feel comfortable with an infant in there as well. We tried so many different things to help ds fall asleep and stay there, and honestly, most of what he needed was just maturity. Even if we had used CIO it wouldn't have changed the number of times he woke up at night, just changed the number of times he called for us. He's almost two now, and while things aren't perfect (he sleeps from 7:30-5am, then 5:30-6:30/7am), they are much better and he's happy in his crib. He's comfortable. He knows we'll be there if he needs us and we're okay giving him that time, even in the middle of the night. Parenting doesn't stop at bedtime. They're little for such a short time it's okay to have them need you after hours. There'll come a time where snuggles in the rocking chair listening to sleepy music will be just a sweet memory.

[scrappyhappymama]

Seems to me you also don't believe that parents can distinguish their babies' cries.

 

Blatantly untrue. Just because I don't believe that infants do not cry with manipulative intent does not mean that I do not believe it possible for parents to distinguish their baby's cries. In fact, I tend to believe most of us are quite good at it. ;)

[mommaduck]

Yes, in fact, someone IS saying that. She said it about me a page or so back. See the posts from momma aimee. Who perhaps would not be so grouchy if she had a little sleep.

 

Terri (who cannot believe how heated this thread has become and thinks perhaps we all could use a nap)

ok, then let me say this: *I* am not saying that.

[mommaduck]

Blatantly untrue. Just because I don't believe that infants do not cry with manipulative intent does not mean that I do not believe it possible for parents to distinguish their baby's cries. In fact, I tend to believe most of us are quite good at it. ;)

I believe most are capable of distinguishing. I believe some are not capable or have been convinced, through various parenting and religious teachings, to ignore their ability to distinguish and retranslate it into "sinful infants are master manipulators".

[MelanieM]

I do believe it is possible to distinguish a baby's cries. I also believe that some babies need to fuss themselves to sleep (not mine, but I know parents who say it about their child(ren) and I certainly don't think they're lying!), and I absolutely believe everyone here loves their children.

 

But now here's the issue... A lot of pro-CIO chatter out there suggests that babies are manipulating us when they cry, that if a baby isn't wet or hungry they are absolutely fine and you should let them cry until they sleep -- however long that takes, and all manner of other extreme recommendations. I think this type of advice is dangerous, and yes, I think there are parents that take the experts' advice at face value and don't use their own common sense when it starts warning them through the sick feeling in their stomach. And I think this is why people want to stand up and say "wait a minute..." when these discussions take place. Because above all, parents need permission to listen to their own hearts. And when you're reading someone like Ezzo (baby's are little sinners out to manipulate you) or Ferber (if they throw up from crying just clean them up and put them back in the crib) from a place of sleep-deprived desperation, then it's important to really understand what you might find yourself doing because you looked outside of yourself and your baby for an answer. (And yes, I understand that some parents will find their hearts to say that leaving their baby to cry for a few minutes is the right answer for them.)

 

Oh, and 5LM... I wasn't questioning your methods or commenting on your parenting. I was simply questioning your comment about the difference between an adult and a baby crying for attention vs. need.

Edited December 13, 2011 by MelanieM

[mommaduck]

I do believe it is possible to distinguish a baby's cries. I also believe that some babies need to fuss themselves to sleep (not mine, but I know parents who say it about their child(ren) and I certainly don't think they're lying!), and I absolutely believe everyone here loves their children.

 

But now here's the issue... A lot of pro-CIO chatter out there suggests that babies are manipulating us when they cry, that if a baby isn't wet or hungry they are absolutely fine and you should let them cry until they sleep -- however long that takes, and all manner of other extreme recommendations. I think this type of advice is dangerous, and yes, I think there are parents that take the experts' advice at face value and don't use their own common sense when it starts warning them through the sick feeling in their stomach. And I think this is why people want to stand up and say "wait a minute..." when these discussions take place. Because above all, parents need permission to listen to their own hearts. And when you're reading someone like Ezzo (baby's are little sinners out to manipulate you) or Ferber (if they throw up from crying just clean them up and put them back in the crib) from a place of sleep-deprived desperation, then it's important to really understand what you might find yourself doing because you looked outside of yourself and your baby for an answer. (And yes, I understand that some parents will find their hearts to say that leaving their baby to cry for a few minutes is the right answer for them.)

 

Oh, and 5LM... I wasn't questioning your methods or commenting on your parenting. I was simply questioning your comment about the difference between an adult and a baby crying for attention vs. need.

Worded wonderfully.

[meggie]

I believe most are capable of distinguishing. I believe some are not capable or have been convinced, through various parenting and religious teachings, to ignore their ability to distinguish and retranslate it into "sinful infants are master manipulators".

 

I am not good at distinguishing my children's cries. The only ones I can tell are the "I'm in pain" cries. Other than that, they all sound the same. Maybe that's why she's waking up so much. At six months, she got a cold and was waking up. I'd go get her and comfort her and feed her. I'm not an uncaring monster either; I know that when I am sick I am absolutely miserable at night. I was trying to help her. And now here we are four months later, still waking 3-5 times a night and she's not sick.

 

I do not believe she's trying to manipulate me. It's possible that it's just a habit by now. I do not believe she's being sinful. I do not believe any infant is sinful. My religion does not do infant baptisms because we don't believe that infants are sinful. Never, ever have I heard that infants are sinful. If someone tried to convince me that they are, I'd run the other way.

 

In my case right now, I can't see that there's anything wrong with her. She could maybe use more calories during the day. I can try other methods to try and get her to fall back asleep once she's night weaned. But I know it is taking it's toll on me. I have a constant headache, I get dizzy and lightheaded frequently, and I'm snappish and grumpy. That's after four months. With Digby it went on for 12 months and I went crazy. I can't afford to go crazy again. I won't put my children through it again. I think poor Pigby probably suffered more from that than he did the few times he cried it out.

[SKL]

I do believe it is possible to distinguish a baby's cries. I also believe that some babies need to fuss themselves to sleep (not mine, but I know parents who say it about their child(ren) and I certainly don't think they're lying!), and I absolutely believe everyone here loves their children.

 

But now here's the issue... A lot of pro-CIO chatter out there suggests that babies are manipulating us when they cry, that if a baby isn't wet or hungry they are absolutely fine and you should let them cry until they sleep -- however long that takes, and all manner of other extreme recommendations. I think this type of advice is dangerous, and yes, I think there are parents that take the experts' advice at face value and don't use their own common sense when it starts warning them through the sick feeling in their stomach. And I think this is why people want to stand up and say "wait a minute..." when these discussions take place. Because above all, parents need permission to listen to their own hearts. And when you're reading someone like Ezzo (baby's are little sinners out to manipulate you) or Ferber (if they throw up from crying just clean them up and put them back in the crib) from a place of sleep-deprived desperation, then it's important to really understand what you might find yourself doing because you looked outside of yourself and your baby for an answer. (And yes, I understand that some parents will find their hearts to say that leaving their baby to cry for a few minutes is the right answer for them.)

 

Well, most of this sounds reasonable. I don't advocate blindly listening to someone who doesn't even know your child. I wouldn't even read a book about sleep training, unless I was all kinds of desperate and had tried everything I could think of. And even then, I'd look for the main idea and apply only the ideas that felt right. I don't know anyone who would just do what a book says with regard to their child, without checking their gut along the way. I read this thread as a bunch of parents saying "this did/ did not work for ME/ MY child under the following circumstances."

 

I don't see babies as sinners. But they also don't have the "memory of a gnat." They are smart. But yes, of course they have emotional needs. Thing is, they are all different. And the best person to make these decisions is the person who takes care of them all day.

 

The OP just wanted to get feedback on the range of views on the subject. As she has noted, she's not going to blindly follow anyone's advice, as very few parents would.