Has it become normal to send your 5 yo child

[Ester Maria]

Maybe I am just old and senile, and this is actually not a new thing, but I was still surprised upon learning of something today. There seems to be a massive - and I mean massive - practice in some circles to send your pre-school-aged child / kindergartener, of about 5 years of age, for a week or two abroad to ski, without you.

 

Now, technically speaking, the children ARE supervised, they go in groups with other little children they know (from the kindergarten, I think), with an adult or two they know, in a hotel adjusted to children and with medical staff for an emergency case. Except for the focus on skiing and learning how to ski, the offer specifies there would be other sports opportunities, such as inside swimming, and the typical socialization / fun stuff such as "mini disco" one night (whatever that means). Kids are supervised all the time and everything is presumably adjusted to children, but the adult - child ratio is not that small as you would wish, the way that I imagine it is one adult per 6-7 children (presumably, the medical staff is not really with you all the time, only in the hotel in the case you need them). Also, children have the travel health insurance (although they are still in a foreign country - comparable to being in another state in the US, but in Europe, it brings about also the linguistic diversity, which can be uncomfortable if the child finds themselves in a situation they need something) and technically, all expenses are paid for (so you would not have to worry too much financially, although you would probably still equipen your child with some money).

 

Now, who is the crazy one here - I or the people I have spoken to who are totally excited about this and think this is awesome? :confused:

I would be likely to send, and have sent, a child that is only a few years older - and that IS a common thing, with school-aged children, many classes go together basically every year to ski - but only because, at those ages, a year or two or three does mean A LOT of a difference in maturity and the child's confidence. Five seems so terribly young to me, even with all the supervision. The people I have spoken to do not see a big deal: "You explain to the child that mommy and daddy will be gone for seven days and six nights [my note: except that, to a five year old, that may as well seem like an eternity] and that they will have lots of fun."

 

Ah, and the parents are discouraged from calling their children (only, why would a five year old have a cellphone in the first place?), so as not to ruin the fun and "burden the child" - but to call directly the supervisors to ask for their child's wellbeing.

 

Am I that old or is the world going crazy? The first thing of the kind I did without my parents was when I was 6 and half, but it was shorter than a full week (and definitely not two weeks) and still in-country. It also did not involve much risk - maybe I am just more paranoid, but skiing is, although adapted to children, still a bit of a risk for most kids, especially when they only begin to learn how to do it.

 

What do you think?

[jennsmile]

Obviously this is not my circle as I have NEVER heard of such a practice.

 

But then I like to be involved and went with my son to cubscout day camp. And my others were in tot lot.

 

I never have gone skiing, and my friends that did would go as families for a week.

Not sending them off to learn.

 

I guess this is just not my circle....

[Samiam]

Hmm, guess that is a question that is very relative to where you live, lol. Here in the Southeast of the U.S....ain't nobody going skiing, let alone 5 years old, unless they are flying somewhere.

 

I've heard of older ages, 6th grade or so, comes to my mind, in private schools going on weekend school trips.

[Munchkins_mama]

Wow. That is definitely not the norm here. Where I live, our kindergartners are still little kids. They don't even have sleepovers...

 

My DD6 is still a total baby and I love it. :001_smile: She still wants to be tucked in every night with a 'rock-a-bye' and a hug and kiss and her hot pack cooked.

[Daisy]

5yos going on overnight trips without their parents is completely unheard of around here.

 

Absolutely NOT.

[Harriet Vane]

I am going to guess that this (skiing camp) is more of a European trend.

 

Having said that, there are some circles here where it is common to send kids to camp at a young age. I struggle with even that at a young age. A camp my dd attended has a nice, in-between policy of having 3-day camp for younger kids (8yo and older).

[kitten18]

Crazy.

 

I guess maybe the U.S. equivalent to the ski trip could be an away summer camp, but I've never heard of sending a 5 year old away to camp.

[T'smom]

I have never heard of such a thing.

[kewb]

I don't know anyone who has done this nor have I heard of it. However, I can totally see on of my sil's thinking this is a great thing and if she knew about it when her kids were 5 she would have done it.

[Alte Veste Academy]

5yos going on overnight trips without their parents is completely unheard of around here.

 

Absolutely NOT.

 

:iagree:...

 

Heck freaking no. I wouldn't do that.

 

...to this extent. :lol:

[KatieH]

We must be worlds away in terms of socio-economic circles :smilielol5: Seriously though, never heard of that, and no way would I send off a child that young. My 6 year old is low vision and will eventually board at our state's school for the blind, but she is nowhere near ready for that, not even for a week or two.

[Mabelen]

Not in any circles I know!

 

I would, however, love to know in what kind of circles this has become the norm! Would you like to share?

[J-rap]

Never heard of it. Sounds a little crazy to me! You definitely move in different circles than most of us -- ha ha! People might send their young children to a summer camp for a few days, but even at that age, it would most likely be just a day camp rather than overnight.

[Dmmetler]

Well, my DD just turned 7, and still hasn't spent a night in her life without a parent there-and only a few without both parents there. She's fine spending long periods of time during the day at a friend's house or in a group setting, but when it comes to bed time, she wants Mommy, Daddy, and Draggy (her stuffed dragon that she's had since she was about 9 months old).

[Ester Maria]

Great, I am happy to know that, FOR ONCE, it is not me. :tongue_smilie:

 

As regards price, I do believe they have all sorts of discounts as a group, as kids, etc. I checked some offers, but it seems is that they go in private arrangement with the supervisors as regards hotel, separately from the actual skiing school (so, instead of booking a hotel as a family, they book it as an excursion of kids and their supervisors), and then regularly participate in a skiing school offered wherever they are. So for example, the actual skiing prices would look something like this (this is a random example off the web). I see they offer all kinds of cute stuff, with some kind of a diploma ceremony for kids getting a diploma they learned to ski, I imagine kids have lots of fun, and they take kids as young as 4. Now, I am perfectly okay with this if you are as a family there and then put the kid into the skiing school for 4 hours a day - but it still blows my mind the idea to send the child with a group, without you anywhere near, at that age. I still think kids need to be 7-8 for that, although I do know of some schools who do it earlier too.

 

Mabelen, PMing you with the details. :lol:

[TravelingChris]

I have never heard of this. I haven't heard of any sleep away camps for skiiing or any other reason for five year olds whether it was when I lived in Belgium or anywhere in the US. Older kids, sure, but not five year olds. Now, many ski resorts have programs where the whole family comes to the resort, and there is a pre-school type program at the resort for the younger kids plus daycare for the babies and toddlers. The programs for the five year olds usually do include some skiing but not to the extent that the older ones get. I don't go skiing anymore since I have gotten arthritis but some places we have stayed at in the summer had brochures about their winter programs.

[Ester Maria]

Now, many ski resorts have programs where the whole family comes to the resort, and there is a pre-school type program at the resort for the younger kids plus daycare for the babies and toddlers.

Exactly!! That is the first thing I had in mind - that the whole family goes there, and then kids have some sort of an organized program for them.

 

But nope. The kids actually do go without parents. :001_huh: The same way that schoolkids sometimes go in organized groups via schools with their supervisors, without parents - something I *am* familiar with and have heard about - now it seems to exist for kids which are in the year before school, together with their kindergarten group.

 

The people I have spoken to absolutely do not see what is the big deal. They say it is like any other school excursion and they marveled at my being marveled, asking: "What, you never went to a sleepaway excursion kind of thing at school?"

Sure I did, but not at 5, not in winter, not to another country.

[wapiti]

.

[Rosie_0801]

I used to staff on a lot of girl guide camps. Even when the Gumnuts (Daisy scouts) were finally allowed to come on the week long camps, I only encountered one. She came with a leader from her group, who she was housed with but didn't spend all day with. She did just fine and had a great old time! But that was only two hours from home, which means nothing to the child, but everything to the parents! For all I know, they were staying in a caravan 5 minutes away. I probably would be if it were mine, lol.

 

I think your ski trip buddies are nuts. Even if the kids are ok going so far for so long, and some are, the adults involved are crazy. We would take 7-10 year olds away for weekends and at least half a dozen of them would spend an hour on Saturday night crying for their mums and having headaches from not having eaten properly. Imagine trying to convince a herd of 5 year olds that they need to eat and drink more than usual, and yes they are going to take a nap, because they are being more active than usual. :001_huh:

 

Rosie

[Roadrunner]

Ester Maria, are you in Europe?

Back home they have ski schools that take kids as young as 6 to ski resorts for week or two at a time. I can tell you why so many parents do it. It's much much cheaper to teach your kids to ski through such an arrangement (insane discounts on lift prices since it's a sports school, etc) than to plan a family ski vacation. I agree, 5 year old is tooooo young, but I would love to have an arrangement like that for 7 year old kids here in CA. I don't even think anything like that exists at all in CA.

[Ester Maria]

Ester Maria, are you in Europe?

Back home they have ski schools that take kids as young as 6 to ski resorts for week or two at a time. I can tell you why so many parents do it. It's much much cheaper to teach your kids to ski through such an arrangement (insane discounts on lift prices since it's a sports school, etc) than to plan a family ski vacation. I agree, 5 year old is tooooo young, but I would love to have an arrangement like that for 7 year old kids here in CA. I don't even think anything like that exists at all in CA.

Yes, I am familiar with these things, I think it is awesome for school kids, but... 5 year olds... :001_huh: The age is the source of my shock, not the fact that these things exist - I honestly used to think there are no organized excursions at least for kids until first grade, which is already 6 going on 7, and when kids are so small, every year of difference is felt in maturity.

 

I used to think skiing was something you do with your family, if your family does it, until you are 7-8 or so, and then you start going on organized excursions with school or ski organizations. Ditto for summer things of the kind.

Edited December 8, 2011 by Ester Maria

[Trish]

I'd be worried about my children being "Sanduskied."

 

I'm not picturing who does this.

[justamouse]

Nope, no how, no way, not happening. Skiing with grandma or grandpa is one thing, family ski weekend, yes; 5 yo ski vacation without me? When hell freezes over.

[Denisemomof4]

:svengo:

 

I've never heard of such a thing.

[AdventureMoms]

That is completely unheard of here. The only "trips" I hear of 5yos going on without their parents here is staying overnight at grandmas (or another close relative). Definitely not group things, definitely not overseas without parents! Also, even though I do live in a cold-climate area, most 5yos here don't ski yet. Among the skiers I know 5yo seems to be on the young side of when kids might start kiddie ski lessons.

[G5052]

Among the elite private schools in my area, this sort of thing is the norm. When mine were playing with that sort of neighborhood child, we heard all about the different ways to send your YOUNG child away. The same schools have senior class trips to Europe, etc. and I can see that. But to send a tiny child away alone on a skiing trip?

[Ester Maria]

Thanks guys. I am getting a confirmation that I am not entirely crazy after all.

 

AdventureMoms - I doubt it is "real" skiing anyway, I picture it as lots of snow fun for kids and a little formal instruction, kiddie classes like you say, with minimal risks if they are carefully overseen by the adults who supervise the group and the medical staff, but it still seems nuts to me. It is the age that troubles me.

 

Rosie - they are not really my buddies, otherwise I would not be shocked, right? :lol: The reason why I am shocked is because this is NOT in the "normal" category in my book. Second, third grade ski away camps for schoolkids - provided a good organization and that you know the people and the families, I am fine with. But five year olds... Gosh. Maybe I underestimate kids, maybe it is really awesome and kids take it really well, but I am still having a hard time processing it.

 

And I used to think *I* was really on the permissive side. :lol:

[Dmmetler]

Exactly!! That is the first thing I had in mind - that the whole family goes there, and then kids have some sort of an organized program for them.

 

But nope. The kids actually do go without parents. :001_huh: The same way that schoolkids sometimes go in organized groups via schools with their supervisors, without parents - something I *am* familiar with and have heard about - now it seems to exist for kids which are in the year before school, together with their kindergarten group.

 

The people I have spoken to absolutely do not see what is the big deal. They say it is like any other school excursion and they marveled at my being marveled, asking: "What, you never went to a sleepaway excursion kind of thing at school?"

Sure I did, but not at 5, not in winter, not to another country.

 

3rd grade (so age 8-10 or so) seems to be a pretty common age for overnight camps and the like to start. I think that girl scout camp allows a 1 night camp as part of week-long day camp for brownies (so ages 6-7).

 

I think I was in high school before we ever did a trip that was longer than maybe a couple of nights-and I KNOW I was in 9th grade before we did an international trip (and even that was to Canada).

[Ester Maria]

When mine were playing with that sort of neighborhood child, we heard all about the different ways to send your YOUNG child away.

In my more evil moments, I would say that this makes me think some parents want to "get rid" of their kids as soon as possible and as neatly as possible. :lol:

 

Do not get me wrong, I try not to judge parents here because *I* would be judged quite harshly by some for allowing my children, at quite young ages (though not that young), to spend a lot of time without me (although I still hold that it is a completely different thing to send a child to family / close family friends for a period of time, than on a group excursion). I realize that people have different lifestyles and thus make different choices, heck some people send their children abroad at boarding schools at that age, more or less, for months at a time seeing them only for extended weekends and holidays, so yes, physically, it is possible. But I still think 5 year olds are pretty much big babies :001_huh:, and I would prefer to wait for at least a few more years, as they mature rapidly at those ages and there is a big difference even between 5 and 6, let alone between 5 and 8.

[Rosie_0801]

Rosie - they are not really my buddies, otherwise I would not be shocked, right? :lol:

 

Sorry. Australian dialect usage. :blushing:

 

"Buddy" can be used to mean anything from your bestest ever friend in the whole world to people you are aware of. So I was using the word to mean "people you know and I don't."

 

:rolleyes:

Rosie

[LeslieAnneLevine]

I am sure such camps exist in France, but that more people than not would think 5 years old to be a bit young for it. Sleep-away camps of all kinds are popular in France and some of them do start at around ages 5 or 6. However, I wouldn't say it's the norm at that age.

 

I have heard of school trips (one or more nights away) being required in some parts of Switzerland and that some are for children as young as 4, but I'm not sure at what age the requirement for them kicks in.

 

I do think Europeans tend to be more at ease with it because they believe it's good for their children.

[Ester Maria]

I think I was in high school before we ever did a trip that was longer than maybe a couple of nights-and I KNOW I was in 9th grade before we did an international trip (and even that was to Canada).

Honestly, I was younger on both counts, BUT, when one travels in Europe, it pretty much equals to traveling between different US states, plus the language difference (which was exactly what many parents wanted as a "side effect" of the trip, to enhance foreign language learning). So, it still often pretty much equaled a driving distance in your parents' mind, or something they can reach in some other kind of arrangement, and they knew they could get there comparatively quickly if needed. So, in a way, what these parents are doing is not that drastic - it is not like they are sending their kids overseas at that age or something, it is after all "only" a neighboring country, like a different state - but something about the age just keeps rubbing me the wrong way, although I know, in theory, that there are probably many kids who could handle it and who could like the adventure without parents.

 

I think the "abroad abroad" travels with school or some other kind of group organization, that were not to the nearest and neighboring countries, began only about high school age, like in your case - although it has become fashionable to send your child to learn English to the UK at rather young school ages too, I see all kinds of offers for middle and even elementary aged kids.

[Splinter]

I've never heard of skiing camps like this, but I've never lived in Europe.

 

I've been investigating summer camps for my oldest for next summer, and some of what I've seen blows my mind. One camp required that all the campers stay for 8 weeks. The minimum age for the camp is 6!

[Ester Maria]

I've been investigating summer camps for my oldest for next summer, and some of what I've seen blows my mind. One camp required that all the campers stay for 8 weeks. The minimum age for the camp is 6!

:lol:

 

In comparison with that, I guess that these parents are almost normal in my eyes, LOL. I doubt anyone is even toying with the idea of going over two weeks, I think a week is standard (six nights).

 

For eight weeks straight? Wow, I have no idea what kind of camp it would have to be for me to agree to that, even with an older child.

 

But apparently they do have the customers, no? Otherwise those offers would not exist I guess.

[Mommyfaithe]

Heck freaking no. I wouldn't do that.

 

:iagree:

[Ester Maria]

I can't imagine having a group skiing without an adult per several kids. They get SO tired by the end of the day.

I am actually not sure what is the exact ratio, I was guessing - I imagine that, on the paper, the ratio is smaller, but then again, I doubt all of those people are constantly present with the kids, if you know what I mean. I imagine the medical staff is simply at the hotel, that supervisors have some kind of shift schedule, so even if technically there is a small kid - adult ratio, in practice, I believe it can really come to only two people supervising 15 kids or stuff like that. Maybe I am wrong, though, maybe they are more careful with such small children. I hope they are.

[Desert Rat]

Never heard of that around here. Of course, I do live in the middle of the Mojave Desert, so my circle doesn't include many skiiers. We have a lot of Dune Goons here with quads, etc. I know lots of 5 yo's that have their own quad or sandrail thingy, but they still go with their parents.

[athena1277]

That's certainly not the norm here. My dd went on a recent sleepover with the other girls in her AHG troop. All were 1st-3rd graders and the 1st graders had to be picked up at 9pm. They were considered too young to stay overnight.

[RoundAbout]

I have never heard of such a thing and my son has been skiing since a week after his 3rd birthday. Totally weird. No one I know sends kids that young away on overnights except to a grandma or auntie's house.

[jennynd]

I won't let a 5 yo go ski without me around. DS started taking ski lesson since he was 5, but i always close by

[JumpedIntoTheDeepEndFirst]

A 5 yo skiing-heard of it and seen it.

 

A 5 yo at a resort's ski program/training class-heard of it.

 

A 5 yo on a transoceanic flight without their family for a "ski trip". Never.

[Nakia]

Never heard of it. I have a 5 year old, and I intend to keep her right here on this side of the Atlantic, thankyouverymuch.

[LibraryLover]

Wait. There are teachers who would dress and boot 5 year olds all weekend ? Lol I am in an area of very wealthy, and no way, no how is this happening. I am chuckling. I know folks who go skiing with nannies, but I do not know of anyone sending 5 years olds off on multi day school ski trips at age 5. Not common. Kindy trips without parents is NOT an American thing. Of course , nothing would shock me, so I'm sure there are exceptions. ;)

Edited December 9, 2011 by LibraryLover

[oneddmanybooks]

Obviously this is not my circle as I have NEVER heard of such a practice.

 

...

 

I guess this is just not my circle....

 

:iagree: I can't even imagine sending a 5 year old somewhere for a couple of days, let alone weeks.

[Ester Maria]

A 5 yo on a transoceanic flight without their family for a "ski trip". Never.

Never heard of it. I have a 5 year old, and I intend to keep her right here on this side of the Atlantic, thankyouverymuch.

Wait, wait, I guess I am not being clear enough.

 

They are European kids, going to another European country. Comparable to the US kids going to another US state, only in Europe the change of those proportions is more drastic (in terms of linguistic diversity).

They are not flying anywhere, the trips are typically organized with a bus, and although they are many hundreds of kilometers away from their parents, the kids are still reachable comparatively quickly if need be.

[mommaduck]

I'm guessing people with a heck of a lot of money.

 

That is unheard of around here (both the money and the sending 5yr old away).

[Nakia]

Wait, wait, I guess I am not being clear enough.

 

They are European kids, going to another European country. Comparable to the US kids going to another US state, only in Europe the change of those proportions is more drastic (in terms of linguistic diversity).

They are not flying anywhere, the trips are typically organized with a bus, and although they are many hundreds of kilometers away from their parents, the kids are still reachable comparatively quickly if need be.

 

:lol: I guess I should read all the posts a bit more carefully, huh?

 

Anyway, maybe I should have said I intend to keep my 5 year old on this side of the...couch with me. Heehee!

[Ester Maria]

Week long school ski trips in kindergarten without parents is NOT an American thing.

I thought they were not a European thing either, I have really never heard of it - not that young! - but apparently I was wrong and some people do practice it, LOL.

[LeslieAnneLevine]

I think this is a European question being asked on a board made up of many North Americans. I'm not saying it shouldn't be asked, but there is definitely a cultural divide on this.

[Tarreymere]

I think this is a European question being asked on a board made up of many North Americans. I'm not saying it shouldn't be asked, but there is definitely a cultural divide on this.

 

Yep, heer in my trailer park we don't hold with sendin' the kids off to some fancy ski place, we take 'em with us to deer camp!