Narcissistic mothers...

[Impish]

oh wow. Thank you for this thread and the links. I've spent the afternoon reading about my mother. It is amazing to know that this is 'real' and it's not just me. I'm the bad, ungrateful, nasty, manipulative daughter and I decided about 9 months ago I was stepping out of the relationship... resulting in several of her friends and our relatives contacting me to make sure I was "ok" because my mother is so worried about me and can't understand why I'd do a thing like this. I have had tears and ah huh moments all afternoon. This IS my mother. Thank you. I think I may have an understanding of this situation now, and may even be able to start to move past many of the "it's my fault" issues. Thank you, thank you, thank you.

:grouphug:

[smilesonly]

http://www.amazon.com/Will-Ever-Good-Enough-Narcissistic/dp/1439129436/ref=sr_1_1?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1323325624&sr=1-1

 

this book was a lifesaver for me. super, super good!:grouphug::grouphug:

[5LittleMonkeys]

I've been no-contact with my NPD MIL since she moved out. I have never, in 21 years, felt so liberated. Now when the phone rings and I see on the caller ID that it's her I feel completely at ease knowing that if dh wants to talk to her he can but that I am under no obligation whatsoever to answer that phone. Even dh has reduced the amount of contact he has had with her.

 

When dh told her over the phone that I wasn't going to be speaking with her anymore she didn't ask why or try to find out if she could fix anything, she just got very indignant and asked dh if he was going to let me treat her like that. He told her that after the way she's treated me for over 20 years that yes, he was going to let me treat her like that. She hung up on him. :tongue_smilie: He laughed and said that would gain him 2 or 3 weeks of no calls from her.

 

I know she needs to be medicated, her whole family knows she should be medicated and has asked, begged and pleaded with her to get help. She refuses and believes that its everyone else that needs to be medicated. It really must be terrible to live your whole life believing that everyone around you is always wrong and can't possibly ever live up to your standards.

 

My mom has some NPD tendencies but I think her behaviors are more due to the myopic life she lives. No hobbies, no friends, sits at home alone (my dad works) with her two little spoiled rotten neurotic dogs. My dad has made sure that everything revolves around keeping her happy for the last 20 years. It makes for some selfish behavior.:glare:

 

Here's :grouphug: to all of us who have to deal with NPD family members.

[Grover]

I sent my husband the "Harpy's Child" link and he's been calling me for the last 20 minutes to show me things that are "exactly your mother". Wow

[gardenmom5]

you know, I'm realizing my sil is also NPD. I had always referred to her as a prima dona because she loves to be the center of attention . . . (and she performs for the crowd). She's even married to an aspie - which one of the links said was common for NPDs.

 

I had sought counseling at one time, coincidently, after a horrendous happening at a holiday involving sil, whom I am certain, is NPD. the couselor was very sympathetic about yes, that was atrocious behavior, blah, blah, -THEN she discovered she KNEW my sil. I just remember her expression, and trying to wrap her head around this woman she knew as charming, etc. (and she can be - she loves an audience), was the same one who I was describing as an absolute shrew (or more accuratly, a witch) at a family event. I admit, at that point, I felt the counselor no longer believed me (she was having trouble wrapping her head around the primary things I had sought her for help with), and I never went back.

 

It also explains my brother . . .

Edited December 8, 2011 by gardenmom5

[gardenmom5]

not likely. narcs are never wrong and can do no wrong, therefore no reason to see a pysch as they are NEVER at fault-it's always others' faults.;)

 

and they know how to do *everything* (and I mean *EVERYTHING*), and are happy to tell you how to do everything. Never ask how to do anything, or you will get a textbook as a response.

 

my brother started going on about higher math to our sister's daughter's boyfriend. BWAHHHAAHAHAHAHAHAH. He was a math major total geek and was so excited to think someone could talk about math on his level. BAWAHAHAHAHAHA. Needless to say, just because db is an EE, doesn't mean he can converse in math speak with a math nerd.:lol:

[Mama Bear]

I sometimes think that if my XH had gone no contact with her he might not have lost himself and eventually his family.

 

Dang, Scarlett. :iagree: This isn't the first time I've found myself nodding along with you, but I wouldn't have guessed at this particular shared detail! Who knew there were so many of us? :confused:

 

Someone I know was recently dxed with BPD and in discussion, those of us close to this person were speaking of how devastating this can be; how sorry we were to hear this. One person in the group spoke up and said that she's not really at all sorry for folks with N/BPD dxes - they're fine as long as someone's propping up their world view. It's the rest of us, the ones who have to deal with 'em, *those* are the people she's sorry for. :D

[Greenmama2]

and they know how to do *everything* (and I mean *EVERYTHING*), and are happy to tell you how to do everything. Never ask how to do anything, or you will get a textbook as a response.

l:

Ok, now I've gone from mildly curious to thinking I should read those links wrt *my* mother...

[posybuddy]

.

Edited December 12, 2011 by posybuddy
tmi

[unsinkable]

Hold up here.

If NPD is currently classified as a mental illness... how are you saying this on this board without being crucified?

 

If I posted that about bipolar or charcter disorder or etc etc etc, I'd have hate mail!

 

(I'm not meaning to crucify you. I TOTALLY get the emotion/frustration/tongue-in-cheek.)

 

I had the same question about a post in which those who commit suicide were called cowards.

 

I figure the universe will open the poster's eyes eventually...

[RegularMom]

((((((((((((((hugs))))))))))))) I'm so sorry to hear about your dog.

 

And yes, my mom is an NPD/Borderline type as well. It really is hard.

[Jenny in Florida]

Here's what I think is interesting: I don't see my mother at all in the website shared here or in other sources I've read about NPD, but I do see my grandmother (mother's mother) quite clearly. And many, many of the traits attributed to daughters of NPD moms are things I stuggle with all the time.

 

My own daughter tells me frequently that I "have issues," usually when we're talking about how I don't like to spend money on myself or when I say something negative about myself. And, although my mother let herself be her mother's doormat right up until the end of my grandmother's life, I cut off contact with my mother almost 20 years ago (one of the best decisions I've ever made, by the way).

 

I wish there were a website for daughters of daughters of narcissistic mothers!

[FaithManor]

I had the same question about a post in which those who commit suicide were called cowards.

 

I figure the universe will open the poster's eyes eventually...

 

It was said tongue and cheek, thus the emoticons. Something to lighten the mood of those that deal with it. If you haven't, then you can't imagine.

 

My sil's have systematically destroyed their husbands. Pure and simple. If they are indeed mentally ill instead of having a choice about how they behave then it should not be wrong to institutionalize them so the carnage stops. That is my serious view. It is extraordinary to me the carnage that the severe end of NPD'ers cause.

 

So, because I have dealt with it, though we do not any longer because we opted to end all contact with these two which means dh has nothing to do with his brother because of the wife and his own sister, I think I get to make a joke about wishing we could boot them all to a bio-dome. And for what it's worth, I think it might be therapeutic. The reality is that modern society does not demand them to try to do better or to medicate or go to counseling or anything else. Their view of life is propped up by every enabler of which there are always many. If they are taken away from the enablers, my theory is that in order to survive they would have to adapt.

 

If there was any way to force institutionalization on my sil's, I would be standing in line for the paperwork. I.am.not.kidding. In particular, one brother in law, who stuck it out for the sake of the kids, is going to die very young from the stress of it. I'd be very pleased to see her not having access to the general public so she can continue to wreck havoc on others' lives.

 

Faith

[unsinkable]

It was said tongue and cheek, thus the emoticons. Something to lighten the mood of those that deal with it. If you haven't, then you can't imagine.

 

My sil's have systematically destroyed their husbands. Pure and simple. If they are indeed mentally ill instead of having a choice about how they behave then it should not be wrong to institutionalize them so the carnage stops. That is my serious view. It is extraordinary to me the carnage that the severe end of NPD'ers cause.

 

So, because I have dealt with it, though we do not any longer because we opted to end all contact with these two which means dh has nothing to do with his brother because of the wife and his own sister, I think I get to make a joke about wishing we could boot them all to a bio-dome. And for what it's worth, I think it might be therapeutic. The reality is that modern society does not demand them to try to do better or to medicate or go to counseling or anything else. Their view of life is propped up by every enabler of which there are always many. If they are taken away from the enablers, my theory is that in order to survive they would have to adapt.

 

If there was any way to force institutionalization on my sil's, I would be standing in line for the paperwork. I.am.not.kidding. In particular, one brother in law, who stuck it out for the sake of the kids, is going to die very young from the stress of it. I'd be very pleased to see her not having access to the general public so she can continue to wreck havoc on others' lives.

 

Faith

 

I think you should address your reply to zaichiki, since SHE was the one who quoted YOU, not ME.

 

No need to get high horsey with me, since I wasn't addressing you.

[CAMom]

I'm joining the club.:tongue_smilie:

 

My mom's BFF called me one day to tell me my mom said I didn't love her. Want to know how she determined that? She told her friend that I don't sign my e-mails "Love,".

 

It didn't matter that my family had just included her in a week long vacation to our favorite spot, played games with her everyday, etc.

 

She didn't come to my daughter's memorial service because she said she just couldn't handle it.

 

After my daughter died, she said, "I sure hope you guys are using birth control. You cannot do that to ME again!"

 

My dad died in September (they divorced a long time ago). Her brother died in May. I called her a couple of weeks ago to share that we'd adopted two dogs. She turned the whole thing into crying about how much she misses her brother and how Thanksgiving was so hard. She did not once ask me how I was doing on my first holiday after having lost my dad.

 

She told me that her nurse practioner is concerned that she's suicidal but she's convinced she's not.

 

It's taken me a long time to learn to recognize the manipulation and to get over the feeling that I'm not good enough. I still fall into the traps now and then but I'm getting better.:)

 

I'm sorry there are so many who know this path.:grouphug:

[thescrappyhomeschooler]

 

After my daughter died, she said, "I sure hope you guys are using birth control. You cannot do that to ME again!"

 

 

Wow. I thought it was pretty bad when I told my mom I was getting married, and she said, "I didn't have children so they could grow up and have their own lives, I had children so I would have people to love me." What your mother said is so over the top, I think I would have cut off all contact at that point.

 

:grouphug::grouphug::grouphug::grouphug:

[zaichiki]

It was said tongue and cheek, thus the emoticons. Something to lighten the mood of those that deal with it. If you haven't, then you can't imagine.

 

Didn't I say "tongue-in-cheek" in my reply? So I understand the emotion you're dealing with. I, myself, was raised by a mother with multiple mental illness diagnoses. And to borrow your quote, "if you haven't, then you can't imagine."

 

I replied b/c I thought it was amazing that I can be upset about how my life was impacted due to my mother's mental illness, but if I so much as hint at that on this board, certain posters get all offended and people rush to comfort *them.* And yet, somehow, people can get away with being *very* specific about feelings about people who they say have NPD (which is, apparently, also currently considered a mental illness). And I have NO idea how that dichotomy happened.

 

I'm not saying you're wrong for your emotions OR your venting. You can't imagine some of the things I've said about my mother in my life. I *completely* understand where you're coming from. I'm just amazed that you (and many others on this thread) can get away with it.

[pdalley]

My mother - right after the initial cancer diagnosis - managed to even top herself. Over the years she's said some brutal things to me - screaming at me for not having an abortion for one - but this was so bad I had to call my husband to come calm me down.

 

'You really don't think your boys are going to grow up to be functioning adults, do you?'

 

Yes, I do. That's why dh and I invest a large part of ourselves in making sure they have life skills, a more than adequate education and the belief in themselves that she crushed in my and my brother repeatedly and often.

 

I didn't say anything to her about it - what good would it do? Now she is dying of cancer quite painfully and I feel empathy for her but I'm having much trouble getting past the pain she has and still is inflicting. The cancer has insulated her from anyone calling her on her manipulation - she tells the dr's and nurses one thing and my brother and I another. We tell the Dr's and nurses what we observe and we look like we're the crazy ones.

 

I know I need to forgive. Her. But it is very very hard at the moment.

 

So I am going to hug and kiss my boys and tell them they are wonderful. All the things she never did for me. And their accomplishments will be THEIRS - not mine nor an extension of me. Theirs.

 

That's the best I can do at the moment.

[Melissa in NC]

I have come to detest Christmas because it brings up all the bad stuff about the NPD in the family. Can I join the group hug?

[Mbelle]

Thanks for posting that link!

That's my mom to T!

[Grover]

After my daughter died, she said, "I sure hope you guys are using birth control. You cannot do that to ME again!"

:

 

:grouphug::grouphug::grouphug: are you my sister?

 

I have come to detest Christmas because it brings up all the bad stuff about the NPD in the family. Can I join the group hug?

 

:grouphug::grouphug::grouphug::grouphug:

 

This has been an eye opener for me. I had no idea other people dealt with this too. My whole life I've assumed it was my problem - that I had done something back before I can remember that had made her feel this way about me.

[gardenmom5]

It is extraordinary to me the carnage that the severe end of NPD'ers cause.

:iagree:and those of us who have been there are frequently told WE are imagining things or horrible people if we object or say "this is wrong".

 

I think I get to make a joke about wishing we could boot them all to a bio-dome. And for what it's worth, I think it might be therapeutic.

making a joke out of what my mil does has long been dh's family's way of dealing with her - it's kept her in check. I honestly don't think she is as bad as my grandmother was. At least I've never seen the kind of drama my grandmother openly and regularly engaged in. (mil lived with us for 11 months).

 

Also, being super positive. dh could really twist my grandmother's tail . . . "oh, you saw your oncologist? you're cancer free? tha's wonderful, you should be SOOOOOO happy!" she couldn't get away from him fast enough.:lol:

 

 

If there was any way to force institutionalization on my sil's, I would be standing in line for the paperwork.

mil is a psych nurse. (she liked graveyard, when the paitents were in a drugged sleep.) her children always teased her not to lose her keys or the staff wouldn't know her from the patients . . . . ;) Edited December 8, 2011 by gardenmom5

[zaichiki]

If there was any way to force institutionalization on my sil's, I would be standing in line for the paperwork. I.am.not.kidding.

 

You know, forced institutionalization is not a cure. And it's only temporary. It's doesn't usually solve things once and for all. The other thing is that forced institutionalization is very stressful on the family and the person generally resents you for a l-o-n-g time afterwards. There's often payback... and they spend a lot of time planning the ways they're going to fight it (not just physically) the next time.

 

I wish people wouldn't make light of this. It's really hard.

[Impish]

You know, forced institutionalization is not a cure. And it's only temporary. It's doesn't usually solve things once and for all. The other thing is that forced institutionalization is very stressful on the family and the person generally resents you for a l-o-n-g time afterwards. There's often payback... and they spend a lot of time planning the ways they're going to fight it (not just physically) the next time.

 

I wish people wouldn't make light of this. It's really hard.

There is no treatment, no cure for NPD. Would *you* want to be cured of being perfect, blameless, all knowing?

 

They don't either.

 

Faith, as she said, was joking.

 

If the potential to drop my mother or MIL off on a desert isle somewhere came up, I don't know if I could keep it as a joke...

[zaichiki]

There is no treatment, no cure for NPD. Would *you* want to be cured of being perfect, blameless, all knowing?

 

They don't either.

 

Faith, as she said, was joking.

 

If the potential to drop my mother or MIL off on a desert isle somewhere came up, I don't know if I could keep it as a joke...

 

Impish,

My mother is *just like this* and *more* difficult. I don't think I'm at a place where I can joke about it yet. Sorry.

 

ETA: I just wanted to add that her current diagnosis is bipolar. And yes, she is medicated.

[Joanne]

Impish,

My mother is *just like this* and *more* difficult. I don't think I'm at a place where I can joke about it yet. Sorry.

 

ETA: I just wanted to add that her current diagnosis is bipolar. And yes, she is medicated.

 

Bipolar is a challenge to everyone; the patient and those around them. It's a different challenge than NPD.

 

You are supposed to be graced by the presence of an NPD. That, or get out of their way because you are worthless peon.

[unsinkable]

:lol:

 

I guess if you don't think the jokes are funny, you must be overly sensitive. Hmmmmm, what does that sound like? I feel like I've read something like that somewhere...

 

J/K!!! :D

[gardenmom5]

Bipolar is a challenge to everyone; the patient and those around them. It's a different challenge than NPD.

 

You are supposed to be graced by the presence of an NPD. That, or get out of their way because you are worthless peon.

 

my mother was schizophrenic, and there were definitely problems that had similarities to NPD. I've a friend whose mother was bipolar. Not the same at all.

 

BUT, it was NOTHING like my NPD grandmother. whole different ball of wax. OMG, the drama:tongue_smilie:. death by 1000 cuts was right. as one site said - no one believes you, and no one else can see it. (because they are so wonderful . . . . ) Even my mil, who might be NPD/BPD/certainly-compulsive/definitely-something is not in the same catagory as my NPD grandmother.

[zaichiki]

Bipolar is a challenge to everyone; the patient and those around them. It's a different challenge than NPD.

 

You are supposed to be graced by the presence of an NPD. That, or get out of their way because you are worthless peon.

 

Hmmm... you said that NPD is a diagnosable mental illness... so the people who have it didn't *ask* for it... and one could imagine that they don't *want* it. Do you know anyone who wants a mental illness?

 

I think this is hypocritical.

[Joanne]

Hmmm... you said that NPD is a diagnosable mental illness... so the people who have it didn't *ask* for it... and one could imagine that they don't *want* it. Do you know anyone who wants a mental illness?

 

I think this is hypocritical.

 

I am not enjoying engaging with you on this topic, so I'm done responding to your questions about the issue.

 

I won't defend processing dealing with NPD from a personal (not professional) standpoint. I've paid my dues.

 

Have a great Thursday.

[gardenmom5]

You know, forced institutionalization is not a cure. .

 

You know what, it's not about "cure" for something for which is there is no cure. It's about damage control for those of us who are innocent and defensless. sometimes, the most compassionate thing is to focus on protecting the innocent.

 

frankly, being able to make jokes about it is healthy and healing. sorry you aren't at that point.

[Tigger]

Hold up here.

If NPD is currently classified as a mental illness... how are you saying this on this board without being crucified?

 

If I posted that about bipolar or charcter disorder or etc etc etc, I'd have hate mail!

 

(I'm not meaning to crucify you. I TOTALLY get the emotion/frustration/tongue-in-cheek.)

 

I would hazard a guess that it's because the destruction from an NPD (or BPD) is so wounding, couple that with the realization that those with NPD or BPD know right from wrong and simply do what they want, regardless of whether it is hurting another, and well, that leads to a lot of resentment about the person with those PD's. Take all that with the knowledge that when presented with what is wrong with them NPD's and BPD's notoriously run from diagnosis and do not want to change, well there you have it, the reason for why some find it okay to say how they really feel about those who have willfully hurt them, do not want to change, and only still want what they want.