Latin sequence?

[Kathryn]

DS will be second grade next year and wants to go ahead and start Latin. I hadn't really thought about it since I was planning on starting in third. I had thought we'd do Prima Latina at that point. But, I don't know how that would be for a wiggly second grader. If we do something else, like Song School Latin, how would we progress? What has been, or is your planned, sequence for Latin?

[....]

Do a search for Latin sequence threads. I had one about a year ago where I was asking this, too. It is very confusing.

 

Some people follow the Memoria Press Latin - like Prima Latina, First Form Latin, etc. http://www.memoriapress.com/descriptions/index_latin.htm

 

My older two kids finished Prima Latina and I think we are going to start Latin Prep next fall. http://www.galorepark.com/product/home_schoolers/127/latin-prep-book-1.html There is a Book 1, 2 and 3. After that, I'm pretty clueless.

 

Also, someone on here is doing Henle Latin and that's supposed to be really good. It's recommended in LCC. http://www.memoriapress.com/descriptions/Henle1.html

[Bloggermom]

I started my 3rd grader with Latin for Children, but it was to difficult for her. I just switched her to Lively Latin and it is much easier for her since she only needs to focus on a page or two a day.

[acurtis75]

I did SSL then Prima Latina and now we're on Latin for Children. When we finished SSL dd wasn't ready for the grammar and additional work in LFC so Prima Latina made for a good in between book. Dd liked SSL and it was fun for her. There's no grammar really so it's mostly just learning vocabulary words and if I remember correctly a few short sentences like, "What is your name?".

 

Prima Latina only covers basic grammar in that it identifies the part of speech for week's vocabulary word list. It also covers derivatives well and dd still remembers and uses several words like "pugnacious" that she thought were fun.

 

The main difference between the two publishers is that with SSL and LFC there is more of an effort to make the material a little bit fun. In SSL there are the songs and pictures and activities in the book. In LFC the lesson DVD features children doing the chants occasionally accompanied by arm movements. There are also some animated shorts between lessons that dd finds amusing. Their website also has games and activities. Prima Latina is just a prunciation cd and plain worksheets. IMHO there's nothing wrong with that but dd definately prefers the CAP materials.

 

I'm pretty happy with the sequence we used and probably would do the same thing if we started over. I thought it was a nice mix and progression. Lfc is a big step up in the amount of grammar and memorization required.

[Mommy22alyns]

We've done SSL and Rebecca is now using Latin For Children. CAP is putting out SSL 2 hopefully in the spring, so you could put that in if you wanted to delay starting LFC. LFC is hard work, but Rebecca seems to be handling it well.

[Lisa in the UP of MI]

We used Song School Latin for first grade and it was lots of fun. This year in second grade we are doing a combination of Prima Latina, which dd does like, and Minimus, which dd loves. I'm unsure if we'll continue with the Memoria Press/Minimus and Cambridge combination or if we'll switch to Latin For Children and Latin Alive series.

[Kathryn]

At this point, with no Latin background/knowledge at all, I was debating between the SSL/LfC/LA (and then what?) combination and the PL/LC/FFL combination. If we start with SSL next year, how do/will the two correlate if I wanted to switch programs at some time?

 

2nd -SSL1

3rd - SSL2 or PL?

4th - LfCA or LC1?

5th - LfCB or FFL?

6th - LfCC or SFL?

7th - LA1 or TFL?

8th - LA2 or FFL?

9th - LA3 or Henle?

10th-12th - Henle?

[FairProspects]

At this point our sequence will probably be:

 

2nd: SSL

3rd: SSL 2 or PL

4th: FF

5th: SF

6th: TF

7th: FF

8th: Wheelock

 

This all really dependent on how ds does with Latin (and reading in general). I'm more confident about the upper division since that's what I took, and less about the primary resources. I'm not sure how you would switch between MP's resources and CAP's, but I would guess you could just compare the table of contents.

[acurtis75]

At this point, with no Latin background/knowledge at all, I was debating between the SSL/LfC/LA (and then what?) combination and the PL/LC/FFL combination. If we start with SSL next year, how do/will the two correlate if I wanted to switch programs at some time?

 

2nd -SSL1

3rd - SSL2 or PL?

4th - LfCA or LC1?

5th - LfCB or FFL?

6th - LfCC or SFL?

7th - LA1 or TFL?

8th - LA2 or FFL?

9th - LA3 or Henle?

10th-12th - Henle?

 

I really labored over the decision between lfca and LC1. I decided to use lfc for two reasons. First, dd found the cap materials to be more fun and interesting and there were activity books, Internet games, card games, etc to go with it. Second, LC1 repeats all of the vocabulary from PL and only starts minimal grammar. LFC was a big step up in work and is more challenging but it jumps right in to grammar. You start memorizing declensions and extensive vocabulary in the first lesson which you then build on as a base for understanding as you move through the program. LC 1 seemed like a lot of unnecessary review. I figured we could move slowly with LFC of we needed to but at least we would be learning new information. We'll probably stick with CAP materials for now and figure out the later high school years later. I also plan to use some additional memorization of Latin pulled from the Andrew Cambell book on Lulu.

[Halcyon]

We used GSWL last year and have moved to Henle 1 this year. We really like it, and it will last us at least two years (for Henle 1) and probably more. We'll either stick with Henle, moving on to Henle 2 or we'll move to Wheelock. Both DS and I do better with more traditional texts such as Henle. It is religious, if that matters.

 

We bought LfC but ended up selling it. Good program, but wasn't a fit for DS--too much busy work for him. He wants to "get right down to it", learns declensions very quickly and wanted to get right into translating, and lots of it. We have been using Henle for 16 weeks now, and it's a match for now.

 

Younger is using Lively Latin, which is less intense, has more fun information and background stories in it. He's doing well, and I expect him to take 2 years to complete Book 1. We'll either continue with Lively Latin, or move to Henle at that point.

Edited December 6, 2011 by Halcyon

[wapiti]

At this point, with no Latin background/knowledge at all, I was debating between the SSL/LfC/LA (and then what?) combination and the PL/LC/FFL combination. If we start with SSL next year, how do/will the two correlate if I wanted to switch programs at some time?

 

2nd -SSL1

3rd - SSL2 or PL?

4th - LfCA or LC1?

5th - LfCB or FFL?

6th - LfCC or SFL?

7th - LA1 or TFL?

8th - LA2 or FFL?

9th - LA3 or Henle?

10th-12th - Henle?

 

What we did: SSL in 3rd, GSWL in 3rd, and Henle starting in the middle of fourth, which will last a few years. If I had to do it over again, I would not bother at all with SSL, and I'd wait until the second half of 4th grade to do GSWL, so that it would be fresh when starting Henle in 5th (or 6th), maybe even waiting until the summer before starting Henle as GSWL is so brief. I see no need to drag Latin over many years of elementary school, before the child is ready for the "fun stuff" (lots of translation and grammar). I'd start Henle in early middle school. Or, I'd simply start from scratch with Wheelock in 8th/9th. I would NOT proceed as you have listed above, for seven years before even starting Henle. If you plan to start Henle in 9th, you could do *nothing* prior to that.

 

FWIW, Henle and Wheelock require no prerequisite knowledge. Dd, being young, benefitted greatly from the short time with GSWL, which is a fantastic brief introduction to Latin grammar and translation (and is accessible to young elementary students who are good readers and have a decent background in very basic elements of English grammar). But I don't see the need for years and years of Latin prior to starting a program that does not require such prerequisite knowledge.

[....]

I see no need to drag Latin over many years of elementary school, before the child is ready for the "fun stuff" (lots of translation and grammar). I'd start Henle in early middle school.

 

Yeah, if you read The Latin-Centered Curriculum, he says that most 5th graders can start Henle - slowly. You don't want to buy 19 Latin programs. :tongue_smilie:

[Halcyon]

Yeah, if you read The Latin-Centered Curriculum, he says that most 5th graders can start Henle - slowly. You don't want to buy 19 Latin programs. :tongue_smilie:

 

I agree. In fact, I wouldn't have my younger do Latin at all unless he insisted (he wants to be like big brother ;) My older didn't start Latin until 3rd, with GSWL, and then moved right to Henle in 4th.

[Kathryn]

What we did: SSL in 3rd, GSWL in 3rd, and Henle starting in the middle of fourth, which will last a few years. If I had to do it over again, I would not bother at all with SSL, and I'd wait until the second half of 4th grade to do GSWL, so that it would be fresh when starting Henle in 5th (or 6th), maybe even waiting until the summer before starting Henle as GSWL is so brief. I see no need to drag Latin over many years of elementary school, before the child is ready for the "fun stuff" (lots of translation and grammar). I'd start Henle in early middle school. Or, I'd simply start from scratch with Wheelock in 8th/9th. I would NOT proceed as you have listed above, for seven years before even starting Henle. If you plan to start Henle in 9th, you could do *nothing* prior to that.

 

FWIW, Henle and Wheelock require no prerequisite knowledge. Dd, being young, benefitted greatly from the short time with GSWL, which is a fantastic brief introduction to Latin grammar and translation (and is accessible to young elementary students who are good readers and have a decent background in very basic elements of English grammar). But I don't see the need for years and years of Latin prior to starting a program that does not require such prerequisite knowledge.

 

I've been wondering about this as well. Why the years and years and years of a single foreign language. What do I do about being begged to start it though?

[SkateLeft]

I've been wondering about this as well. Why the years and years and years of a single foreign language. What do I do about being begged to start it though?

 

We had no issues with doing years and years of Latin. I don't think it's necessary, but I don't think there's anything wrong with it either. :) Some of our most fun school memories are from Latin!

 

This was our sequence for my oldest: Minimus, Minimus Secundus, Oxford Latin (for a few years through a local class), Wheelock. Last summer, she went to the summer Latin immersion program at Christendom College. She's currently using Henle. She also has two years of high school German.

 

My younger dd did this: Minimus, Minimus Secundus, Lively Latin I, Oxford Latin, Latin for Children. She started taking Italian this year locally, so she decided to drop Latin.

 

My older ds did this: Minimus, SSL, Minimus Secundus, First Form Latin. He sat in on Minimus and Minimus Secundus when he was little, and still remembered some bits.

 

SSL is fun, though obviously best suited to a young kid. It's a gentle introduction to Latin. Minimus is a blast too, though it's primarily a history program with enough Latin thrown in to whet their appetite.

 

I bought LC1 and PL years ago, but ditched them both. We really can't stand those DVDs. In the early years, my goal is to inspire the kids to want to learn more Latin as they get older. Minimus and SSL fits the bill for that.

[jplain]

My younger dd did this: Minimus, Minimus Secundus, Lively Latin I, Oxford Latin, Latin for Children. She started taking Italian this year locally, so she decided to drop Latin.

I'm curious to know how you liked this sequence. We're using SSL for fun right now, and I hope that SSL2 will be out soon. After that I'd planned on Minimus, Secundus, and then Lively Latin.

[Jay3fer]

We're loving SSL1, just started a couple of weeks ago. I was pleasantly surprised because I read some very negative comments about the quality of the music. It's not great art, but it's no worse than most curriclum-type music, and I find it reasonably pleasant.

Hoping for SSL2 next year, and if it's out, then perhaps we'll be able to move straight into LfC, or Lively Latin. We shall see...

[Ester Maria]

Start around fifth grade and use a *proper* program (Wheelock, Henle, etc.). Aim to finish the grammar by the end of seventh grade, with perhaps some of the syntax carried over to eight grade. Make eight grade a mix of historical prose (or a general literary survey) and a thorough grammar revision.

 

And then you have four years of pure delight and fun in creating what you want to do in high school. Learning grammar should not take years upon years, and with littles you cannot do meaty stuff anyway. Rare are the kids who truly profit from Latin prior to the logic stage, and even rarer are the teachers who can design an approach to fit the littles, yet to teach them concrete meaty chunks of work. The ultimate consequence is that the whole thing gets slooooowed down with no end in sight. It is much better to aim to finish grammar in 3 years of middle school (or 2 years of high school) and THEN the real learning starts. Grammar is just a tool to get you to the texts.

[acurtis75]

I've been wondering about this as well. Why the years and years and years of a single foreign language. What do I do about being begged to start it though?

 

 

I don't think it is necessary to do it for years and years but I don't think it's harmful. I feel like right now I'm taking advantage of my dd's eagerness to learn. Latin is one of dd's favorite subject. After seeing in her Latin book that they had Greek materials, she asked for a year to start Greek before I let her. I thought it would be too much for us to do both at the same time. I was wrong. It's hard for me to keep up but she's not having a problem and loves it. Why deny a child who is enjoying subjects from learning them? I understand it's not required to do it in the grammar stage but it's working for us.

[....]

I don't think it is necessary to do it for years and years but I don't think it's harmful. I feel like right now I'm taking advantage of my dd's eagerness to learn. Latin is one of dd's favorite subject. After seeing in her Latin book that they had Greek materials, she asked for a year to start Greek before I let her. I thought it would be too much for us to do both at the same time. I was wrong. It's hard for me to keep up but she's not having a problem and loves it. Why deny a child who is enjoying subjects from learning them? I understand it's not required to do it in the grammar stage but it's working for us.

 

I don't want anyone to think from my post that they shouldn't study Latin in the early grades if their kids are excited about it! I think you should always follow your kids' interests. My oldest two kids are studying German and Spanish. :D But, don't stress about it if your student hasn't had Latin in 1st grade. You shouldn't worry about spending a ton of money on it at that point (unless you want to). I think that was my point (just didn't come out right). You can start Henle in 5th grade and you're not behind.

[4littleones]

We're loving SSL1, just started a couple of weeks ago. I was pleasantly surprised because I read some very negative comments about the quality of the music. It's not great art, but it's no worse than most curriclum-type music, and I find it reasonably pleasant.

 

 

My three year old dd is a great SSL aficionado. She wants to listen to the CD with the monkey all the time. "Vale, vale, time to go..."

[Kathryn]

Thank you! I think we'll go ahead with SSL for next year since he's excited about starting Latin. And we'll see where we go from there.

 

Now that I've read more, it looks like each "program" starts from the beginning and moves at the pace of the targeted age group? So, whether we used LfC or the FFL series after SSL, we'd start at the beginning there. And if we take time off or move on with another program, we can start slowly with Henle I in 5th grade. Does that sound right?

 

ETA - And please tell me I'll understand the terminology better once I get into it! I had three years of high school French almost 20 years ago, and a year each of Russian and Italian in college almost 10 years ago. I only vaguely remember parts of speech declining and talk of cases.

Edited December 7, 2011 by kebg11