WWYD? DD12 opened FB acct w/o permission/having social issues

[Twinmom]

Let me begin by saying that this isn't meant to be a thread about FB and that we will take down the acct since she is 12 and didn't have permission to open it. We also feel like we have the discipline issue handled, at least to the best of our ability at this point (though gentle suggestions are welcome...she has special needs and has to be handled differently). My questions are more about how to support DD's need to develop socially when she is stretching herself further than she is able to safely do at this time. Tweens are hard, and she more challenging than most! :rolleyes:

 

DD has a mild brain injury that affects her working memory, emotional control and judgement. She is working mightily to overcome her disabilities, working over the summer to catch up to grade level, doing bi-weekly neurofeedback in a city requiring a 3 hr round trip commute, taking two grade levels of math at the same time as well as participating in tutoring. She attends a small Christian private school with kids who are basically good kids (though definitely more socially mature than DD) and with faculty who is involved and cares about character issues. Those are the good points. The bad points are that she is socially immature, naive, often chooses to be defiant to get what she wants instead of "working the system" (ie., earn my trust in x way and you can have x privilege) and needs to take medication to help control her emotional roller coaster. She also developed early and looks like a gorgeous 16 year old...oh boy! So, nothing is clear cut with her and every day is a challenge.

 

She REALLY wants that FB acct, an email acct, a phone and text privileges. What kid her age doesn't? Probably 75% of the kids in her grade have these things and seem to use them responsibly most of the time (as I said, good kids). She really wants to fit in with these kids, who all seem to like her and accept her but, as I mentioned, are definitely more mature. I want to help her communicate well with us and confidently fit in with the group, but I don't feel that she is mature and trustworthy enough for the media options she wants to have. I just don't think she has the judgement yet to keep herself safe and I know she will try to circumvent protective measures I might put in place. I feel like I am a bit between a rock and a hard place with her...I know I still need to restrict her, but I sure want her to be able to grow and expand her world safely.

 

So, I'm looking for some thoughts and ideas. This kid is a challenge every day and I could use a fresh perspective. TIA!

[thescrappyhomeschooler]

That's a tough situation. :grouphug:

 

I would definitely not let her have the FB account since she opened it without permission, but maybe down the road in a few months, I'd let her open the FB account with the stipulation that you (parents) are the only ones who have the password, not even give it her. That way, when she wants to log on to FB, she would need you to do it for her. And also have the stipulation that you and only you are allowed to approve friend requests. Any violation of that would result in completely losing FB. If you have parental controls on your computer, that should limit some of the dangerous content she could access.

 

Almost all the young teens I know have cell phones and all that stuff. Do you think it might actually help your daughter to fit in better if she has a few of those things? Like maybe just a prepaid cell phone that only accepts calls, no data?

[Ellie]

The best way to help her grow and expand her world safely is to stick to your guns. Limit the things that you KNOW are potentially dangerous, and don't back down.

 

I'm thinking it would be better for her to have actual face-to-face interactions with the other children at her school than to let her have the electronics. Yes, even if all the others have electronics and she doesn't.

[astrid]

That's a tough situation. :grouphug:

 

I would definitely not let her have the FB account since she opened it without permission, but maybe down the road in a few months, I'd let her open the FB account with the stipulation that you (parents) are the only ones who have the password, not even give it her. That way, when she wants to log on to FB, she would need you to do it for her. And also have the stipulation that you and only you are allowed to approve friend requests. Any violation of that would result in completely losing FB. If you have parental controls on your computer, that should limit some of the dangerous content she could access.

 

Almost all the young teens I know have cell phones and all that stuff. Do you think it might actually help your daughter to fit in better if she has a few of those things? Like maybe just a prepaid cell phone that only accepts calls, no data?

 

I agree with this. Same with an email account-- if you have the password and are vigilant about checking it, I don't see the harm.

But you know your dd, of course.

 

astrid

[jelbe5]

:grouphug:

 

My concern with Facebook is you have to be 13 to open an account. So the question is, how would you handle the situation since she did not ask permission AND she she must have fudged her birthdate in order to open the account? Lying about age is probably grounds for Facebook to suspend the account, so maybe that could be the "out" for now? I agree with close supervision re computer time.

[Dmmetler]

One thing to possibly do once she's 13-one of my friends allowed her DD to open a FB account with the requirement that she pick several of her mother's friends to be her friends as well, and to not hide posts from them. I'm one of them. She's got some privacy to talk to her friends without her parents listening in, but if there are signs of cyberbullying or trouble,she knows that these adults will step in. The girl is now 16, and mostly it's been sweet to see the teen enthusiasms and optimism on my news feed each day :).

[Night Elf]

Well, I would be upset at her opening the FB account without permission as well. I agree that should be dealt with. However, I must admit that I think having the FB account would be helpful in her social endeavors. If her classmates use FB, she could 'friend' them on FB and that would be a way to talk with them outside of school hours. However, I think the FB account should be totally under your control. You set the password and have a rule that she can only check the account at certain times or when you're with her, etc. Set it up under your email address and make sure you log out each time so she can't just go in on her own. But I do believe of all the things she wants, this might be the best one for you to keep close tabs on.

[ChandlerMom]

Beware opening Pandora's box.

 

As a FB friend with my 14yo social, well-friended, "good kid" niece I can tell you it has convinced me that my kids won't have FB or text ability until they are AT LEAST 16yo.

 

(1) HUGE waste of time. dn spends WAY too much time on FB and texting. She loves that they are allowed to text in the hallways in hs. IMO kids waste their time doing FB and texting rather than spend any real alone time. That constant superficial contact takes the place of IRL interactions and distracts kids from thinking about important life things independent of The Collective. Encourages peer-orientation which isn't healthy for kids.

(2) even the most mature kids have no sense about what they post -- private, emotional stuff broadcast in an instant to your 800 closest friends. ANYTHING on the internet NEVER goes away completely -- I can find (via googling my name) copies of e-mail I sent a Toastmasters group in 1998. Kids don't "get" the ramifications of FOREVER and future employers WILL google their names.

(3) At 13yo my niece was bullied via text by another girl who thought she liked a boy her friend liked -- and I mean VILE VIOLENT threats. Turns out the girl texted her during school hours which is the ONLY reason the school decided to get involved (imo should have been reported to the police). Electronic communications like texting and FB don't help kids fit in, it makes it easier for kids to interact privately and often BADLY. My sis knew something was wrong but dn wouldn't tell her so she snuck on dn's cell and was shocked at the bullying her dd was receiving; fortunately she printed out all the texts and took them to the school.

(4) teaches kids that these things are somehow "necessary" -- I know folks who are trying to afford food spending $$$ on cell phones for their kids. What are you teaching your kids? Fitting in is more important than eating???

 

Heck, how many of us (me!) spend too much time online, and we're responsible adults. :lol: At 12yo, if your dd is already having issues, hold on teen girls get much, much worse. I'd wait until the nasty MS age passes before bringing that into your home. These things won't TEACH your child restraint, imo you need to wait until dd already demonstrates she is responsible enough. It's like Pandora's box: once you open it it's nearly impossible to put it back.

 

ETA:

1) on cyberbullying: one of the reason it's gotten so bad (and kids are killing themselves over it) is that in "the old days" kids got a respite at home from it; now the bully has electronic access to them 24/7.

2) If all her friends have FB accounts I'm curious how: aren't they 12yo as well? Are they lying to their parents as well? Are those 'friendships' you want to encourage?

 

just my 2cents.

Edited November 30, 2011 by ChandlerMom

[Tammyla]

I think I'd try the carrot and stick approach. Since she deceived you and lied to facebook, it would take some time to build your trust and earn the privilege.

 

Set up some preconditions and a time limits and then allow her to earn some sort of account. There would be many parental conditions, checks and controls.

 

That said, I'm pretty set in my doling out privileges, especially those that involve safety. Personally, I think she is too young and immature for a fb account and would simply say no; you'll have to wait until you're x years old.

[Ester Maria]

Beware opening Pandora's box.

 

As a FB friend with my 14yo social, well-friended, "good kid" niece I can tell you it has convinced me that my kids won't have FB or text ability until they are AT LEAST 16yo.

 

(1) HUGE waste of time. dn spends WAY too much time on FB and texting. She loves that they are allowed to text in the hallways in hs. IMO kids waste their time doing FB and texting rather than spend any real alone time. That constant superficial contact takes the place of IRL interactions and distracts kids from thinking about important life things independent of The Collective. Encourages peer-orientation which isn't healthy for kids.

(2) even the most mature kids have no sense about what they post -- private, emotional stuff broadcast in an instant to your 800 closest friends. ANYTHING on the internet NEVER goes away completely -- I can find (via googling my name) copies of e-mail I sent a Toastmasters group in 1998. Kids don't "get" the ramifications of FOREVER and future employers WILL google their names.

(3) At 13yo my niece was bullied via text by another girl who thought she liked a boy her friend liked -- and I mean VILE VIOLENT threats. Turns out the girl texted her during school hours which is the ONLY reason the school decided to get involved (imo should have been reported to the police). Electronic communications like texting and FB don't help kids fit in, it makes it easier for kids to interact privately and often BADLY. My sis knew something was wrong but dn wouldn't tell her so she snuck on dn's cell and was shocked at the bullying her dd was receiving; fortunately she printed out all the texts and took them to the school.

(4) teaches kids that these things are somehow "necessary" -- I know folks who are trying to afford food spending $$$ on cell phones for their kids. What are you teaching your kids? Fitting in is more important than eating???

 

Heck, how many of us (me!) spend too much time online, and we're responsible adults. :lol: At 12yo, if your dd is already having issues, hold on teen girls get much, much worse. I'd wait until the nasty MS age passes before bringing that into your home. These things won't TEACH your child restraint, imo you need to wait until dd already demonstrates she is responsible enough. It's like Pandora's box: once you open it it's nearly impossible to put it back.

 

ETA:

1) on cyberbullying: one of the reason it's gotten so bad (and kids are killing themselves over it) is that in "the old days" kids got a respite at home from it; now the bully has electronic access to them 24/7.

2) If all her friends have FB accounts I'm curious how: aren't they 12yo as well? Are they lying to their parents as well? Are those 'friendships' you want to encourage?

 

just my 2cents.

Thank you for this post.

 

I was wrestling with some FB questions lately too, and you have reaffirmed me in my position regarding it, at least for now. It is a different world than the one we grew up in, these are all very valid concerns.

[SonshineLearner]

It's the whole... you're the parent and they are the child. But I have to say that FB is almost embarrassing not to have as a 12 yr old... and that if you have her show all of her posts to you, then it would be pretty much a "clear window" to her life.

It's one of those tricky things... easy for them to get in trouble... but there are always was for that. Just a thought ;( PS, about the DOB I'm pretty sure that her friends told her that everybody does it... and that it's not a bigdeal. FB does that for their protection...

[deacongirl]

Beware opening Pandora's box.

 

As a FB friend with my 14yo social, well-friended, "good kid" niece I can tell you it has convinced me that my kids won't have FB or text ability until they are AT LEAST 16yo.

 

(1) HUGE waste of time. dn spends WAY too much time on FB and texting. She loves that they are allowed to text in the hallways in hs. IMO kids waste their time doing FB and texting rather than spend any real alone time. That constant superficial contact takes the place of IRL interactions and distracts kids from thinking about important life things independent of The Collective. Encourages peer-orientation which isn't healthy for kids.

(2) even the most mature kids have no sense about what they post -- private, emotional stuff broadcast in an instant to your 800 closest friends. ANYTHING on the internet NEVER goes away completely -- I can find (via googling my name) copies of e-mail I sent a Toastmasters group in 1998. Kids don't "get" the ramifications of FOREVER and future employers WILL google their names.

(3) At 13yo my niece was bullied via text by another girl who thought she liked a boy her friend liked -- and I mean VILE VIOLENT threats. Turns out the girl texted her during school hours which is the ONLY reason the school decided to get involved (imo should have been reported to the police). Electronic communications like texting and FB don't help kids fit in, it makes it easier for kids to interact privately and often BADLY. My sis knew something was wrong but dn wouldn't tell her so she snuck on dn's cell and was shocked at the bullying her dd was receiving; fortunately she printed out all the texts and took them to the school.

(4) teaches kids that these things are somehow "necessary" -- I know folks who are trying to afford food spending $$$ on cell phones for their kids. What are you teaching your kids? Fitting in is more important than eating???

 

Heck, how many of us (me!) spend too much time online, and we're responsible adults. :lol: At 12yo, if your dd is already having issues, hold on teen girls get much, much worse. I'd wait until the nasty MS age passes before bringing that into your home. These things won't TEACH your child restraint, imo you need to wait until dd already demonstrates she is responsible enough. It's like Pandora's box: once you open it it's nearly impossible to put it back.

 

ETA:

1) on cyberbullying: one of the reason it's gotten so bad (and kids are killing themselves over it) is that in "the old days" kids got a respite at home from it; now the bully has electronic access to them 24/7.

2) If all her friends have FB accounts I'm curious how: aren't they 12yo as well? Are they lying to their parents as well? Are those 'friendships' you want to encourage?

 

just my 2cents.

 

ITA with all of the above.

[Bang!Zoom!]

I think it's a very good idea to sit and review the rules of the road formally with kids when it comes to the internet.

 

This technology is going to be a part of their lives forever and ever; they might as well learn at home NOW the universal rights/wrongs along with the family expectations and rules.

 

Teaching them digital citizenship formally can help; there are plenty of programs out there that are free.

 

As to what your decision is in your home on proper use, that's your personal family business; but it does sound like this causes strife in your home and you are looking for some help.

 

I'd just pull the plug and be done with it.

[elfgivas]

i'm thinking it would help to have a multi-pronged approach.

 

re electronic media:

we started our dds with sites that allowed limited comments.

eg. club penguin, where initially they could only interact with other kids using set phrases. even with that, they encountered some "penguins" who were not very nice, and that allowed us to brainstorm strategies for dealing with them. club penguin helps with that a lot, allowing them to report inappropriate behavior. after a few months of that, we allowed them to be able to type comments. we talked about what sorts of things were appropriate and what weren't.

 

then we tried pixie hollow, and then wizards 101. after 2 years of that, we branched out to face book. in the initial stages, they could only be friends with family. once they showed they could handle that, then we added in a few of their friends. they had to ask us to approve each friend request. i logged on to their accounts at least once a day.... i still do.....

 

but the graduated approach helped them develop skills.

 

fwiw,

ann

 

ps. i think the most helpful thing would be advanced coaching and then having her be on line with you beside her, so that you can glance over at how it is going, and she can talk to you about what she's doing, etc

[Twinmom]

Thanks for all the kind, thoughtful responses. It is really a tough situation...a lot of shades of gray, so I want to be sensitive to her needs. However, her safety definitely does come first and I can see how wide open she could leave herself with access to FB, phones, texts, etc. Sort of makes me long for the days when I was a kid and all we did was pass notes in class! The internet can be a scary place for a kid like DD!

 

I have a lot of thinking to do. You all have given me a lot of good ideas to think about for compromises. I appreciate that you all have been sensitive to her needs and not just focused on kicking her behind over the FB issue. It is complex when you are dealing with a kid with a brain injury. Discipline and safety are clearly issues at the forefront of the problem, but her social and emotional development are running a close second here.

 

Other kids are wrestling next to the Christmas tree...gotta run! Any other ideas are very welcome!

 

Thanks!

[Tigger]

One thing to possibly do once she's 13-one of my friends allowed her DD to open a FB account with the requirement that she pick several of her mother's friends to be her friends as well, and to not hide posts from them. I'm one of them. She's got some privacy to talk to her friends without her parents listening in, but if there are signs of cyberbullying or trouble,she knows that these adults will step in. The girl is now 16, and mostly it's been sweet to see the teen enthusiasms and optimism on my news feed each day :).

 

:iagree:

 

My friend did the same with her son - she isn't on his list of friends, but he had to pick three of her friends to friend and not hide us from seeing posts. So far, so good - he does post some stuff that I think she might be surprised by, but nothing that isn't necessarily normal for a now 14 year old boy. The one thing she does insist on is that she has access to the account - before he opened it, they apparently agreed that if he has no trust breaches with her by the time he turns 16, then he can change the password to the account, but she is to have access, which he agreed to. So far I don't think she's used it (he is a good kid), but he knows she can, so I think that helps too.

[Lisa R.]

This sounds so hard. It sounds like your dd is frustrated and trying to find ways to fit in. She, unfortunately, gave into temptation and made a poor choice. It sounds like you've dealt with that though.

 

First, most kids this age have FB, particularly kids in school. Parents can take a hard line and say, "my kid's not having FB until he's 17 year old" but the reality is that you could end up with a resentful kid that's feeling left out socially. I think it's better to allow them to have it, monitor it closely, and continue to coach them about what to say and what to post. I do think it is important to wait until age 13 as that is what FB requires.

 

One thing that has helped us, it to give them an email account and Facebook, but set time limits on the computer. At age 13, they have a one hour time limit on the computer. They can spend it on Facebook, email, iTunes or whatever. (We also have internet filters, too.) This allows them to have that exposure, socialize and keep up with friends, and then move on with other activities in their life.

 

I think some of the harm comes from some of the kids having unlimited amounts of time in front of the computer. This is where a lot of the foolishness comes into play. Also, some parents are not on FB and have no idea what their kids are posting.

 

Also, you say that the other kids her age are more mature. Please remember that *very* few 12 year olds are mature. You're looking at your dd with a closer lense that you're looking at other kids. She sounds like she needs more coaching (what 12 year old doesn't) and more encouragement. She sounds very motivated and ambitious--unusual for more 12 year olds.

 

Hang in there. I wish people needed to be 25 year of age before they could be on FB. However, this isn't reality...:)

[AMJ]

I know it's a year and a half since this thread was started, but I just found it (joined these forums just a few months ago), and it does raise an issue I'll be facing soon, I'm sure.

 

I have DD11 (turns 12 this summer, already telling everyone "next year I'll be 13; ADD-primarily inattentive, LOTS of allergies (none food) and has slow processing speed) and DD8 (turns 9 in summer, amused by elder sis but starting to think of copying her regarding statements of age). They are currently in private school, but after the end of this school year we will start home schooling. My 13-year-old niece has had a FB account since age 12, as well as a basic cell phone with texting (she was given this so she could contact/be contacted by family as needed since she started jr high), all of which are vigilantly monitored by my BIL (who heads up the computer support group at his company) & SIL (I'll be asking them for pointers). DD11 looks up to DN13, and has already been asking for a smartphone (to combine iPod games, phone, texting, etc., just like I carry).

 

We've told her she won't need a phone for quite some time yet, and when we get her one it won't be an expensive one, and will have limited texts. She has an email address (both DDs do), and is allowed to give that to her close friends so they can keep in touch after the school year ends. (We are not the only ones moving on to other schools at the end of the year, and the kids are all worried they will all lose touch.) Similar set-up for DD8, though she is leading her friends in having email addresses. Both DH and I monitor these email addresses constantly.

 

I'm quite resistant to FB. I have an account which I rarely check (got it mostly to stay in touch with distant cousins/aunts/uncles), though I did set up some email alerts so I know when certain people post. Having a common name all my life (both maiden and married are quite common) I've had multiple identity problems (mostly of the mistaken kind), and I've had friends and co-workers who have had their identities stolen outright. I lied about my birth date on FB because I refuse to publish personally identifying information. The year is correct, but the month and day are not. My kids know I gave a wrong birth date, too.

 

This is one of the seeming double-standards we discuss periodically. It is important to be honest and not lie -- in most things -- but protecting your personally identifying information is vital. Until they fully realize just how release of their information can come back to bite them their opportunities to release it will be seriously curtailed and monitored. DD11 is much too prone to giving out whatever information is asked, without stopping to question why the inquirer wants it.

 

Another of the double-standards we discuss, BTW, is foul language. For long years I've called it "adult words", and told the kids that these were things that adults were allowed to say even though they are crude and should rarely be used, and I instructed the kids to never "correct" or reprimand an adult who uses them (didn't want them getting into the same trouble I did when I was a kid and heard a stranger cuss). They are not to use the words or phrases themselves, however. DD11 had started asking me when she will be old enough to do many things (cussing is not one of them, thankfully), and I have been telling her 25 years old (or 30) for most. She knows I'm not totally serious, but I've stressed that it's important to have adult levels of maturity and knowledge in order to handle many of the situations that will arise.

 

After we start home school I'll also be discussing certain girl issues, human reproduction issues, dating, etc. I've told them we will be discussing these, but not until after this school is out, because I don't want them freely chatting with their friends about these topics in the school setting. They have their aunts, uncles, grandparents and older cousin they can talk to (besides me and their Daddy) and I will be talking with the parents of some of their friends, as well as my BILs & SILs (parents of their contemporary cousin), to coordinate on what we've been telling our kids and when so no big surprises come up.

 

Given everything I'm facing discussing with them in the coming year (things my Mom left up to the school system to teach me, unfortunately) FB seems on the surface to be a minor issue. Until I remember all of the pitfalls an unwary kid can get into with their personally identifying information. We have a lot to discuss in the coming years, much of it quite soon. At least the kids know that I WILL explain things to them as they grow, giving certain levels of detail when they are ready. I've tried very hard not to give them the old line, "you'll understand when you are older" that I received for so many years. I figured out early on that that just meant the adult saying it would likely never explain it, or possibly didn't know the answer. If the time isn't right for explaining something to my kids I tell them why, and try to give them something to consider until we can discuss the topic in more detail.

 

Thanks for the opportunity to yammer on, and the reminder to keep FB and other social media (and their potential pitfalls) in mind. Kids grow so fast!