Grandma with Alzheimer won't drop issues?

[GnomeyNewt]

My DH's grandma has Alzheimer and recently has a new dog (it's a guest dog permanently living there till the owner can take care of it again 1-2 years) living with her. This dog is very small, barks at most things that move, and is just annoying as heck. The first time we visited the dog about 3 months ago my DS and the dog got into a confrontation. We don't really know what happened, just that Grandma says he was teasing the dog. So we instructed our DS to stay away from the dog, which he has done so. Infact half the time we don't even see this dog, because its so small, like the size of a bag of chips small. My DS will walk by the dog and it will start to growl and bark. It also does this to 75% of the people that walk by it, however for my DS only, Grandma will go over to DS and remind him to stop teasing the dog. We have only visited a handful of times and she will remind him every time, just because the dog makes a noise and they are in the same room.

 

This time I was setting up a game for DS at the dinner table, he walked straight to me looking at me and the dog again out of no where started to growl and bark. Grandma got up to him in his face and told him, "You've already been told not to tease the dog, you have to stop". I just told her that DS did nothing but walk to the table, the dog is the aggressor. But she went on about it and finally she ended with, "I guess DS is just perfect isn't he". At that point I was very annoyed with her, because she had reminded him at least 2 times previously on this visit but I had never seen her get in his face like that before.

 

The status quo at that house is to ignore all of her bad behavior, so I'm not surprised her caretakers (aka DH Mother) didn't say or do anything about the situation ~ or even provide us with some assistance on when she starts to get in that mood. I know she has Alzheimer and my Grandma did too. I am aware that she is partly not understanding that this issue has been resolved, but I don't know how to respond to her exactly to get her to stop picking on DS about the dog, especially the getting in his face thing. Anybody have dealt with a dead issue with someone that has Alzheimer? :bigear:

[jewellsmommy]

Oh dear, first let me say that the title of the post is a bit worriesome. I read it as your issue being that grandma won't drop dead. :001_huh: I am so glad that is not the case.

 

As far as the actual problem, I don't know that there is much you can do. Talk to your ds and explain that he is not really doing anything wrong and that grandma has a disease that makes it hard for to think clearly. Then praise him everytime he takes her fussings with grace. :grouphug:

[Pink Fairy]

You can't reason with a person who has Alzheimer's, any more than you can reason with an infant. I think the pp had great advice. Also, I'd pm a mod and ask for a thread title change.

[Friederike in Persia]

The title really isn't that bad ;).

[sparrow]

I respectfully suggest that you educate yourself a bit more about Alzheimer's. Alz.org is an excellent resource. There is no logic left for your husband's grandmother. You're not going to get her to stop "bad behavior" by reasoning with her. This is a fantastic time to teach your child about respect and that his great-grandmother doesn't think or remember the way he does.

 

ETA: A good mantra to remember: "Redirect, redirect, redirect". If you feel grandma is picking on your son, show her a bird outside.

Edited November 26, 2011 by sparrow

[Pink Fairy]

The title really isn't that bad ;).

 

Depending on how you read it, it's pretty bad, and distracts from the real problem that Grandma isn't thinking straight anymore. ;)

[jewellsmommy]

I respectfully suggest that you educate yourself a bit more about Alzheimer's. Alz.org is an excellent resource. There is no logic left for your husband's grandmother. You're not going to get her to stop "bad behavior" by reasoning with her. This is a fantastic time to teach your child about respect and that his great-grandmother doesn't think or remember the way he does.

 

ETA: A good mantra to remember: "Redirect, redirect, redirect". If you feel grandma is picking on your son, show her a bird outside.

 

 

 

:iagree: This is very effective!

[GnomeyNewt]

If anything title will get peoples attention! Didn't really think of her dropping dead so didn't read it that way. I certainly hope she is around for a long while as she is my DH favorite grandparent and I am also making lots of knitting gifts for her this Christmas. Sorry, if it truly offensive I'm going to ask mods to help me change the title! :c)

 

My Grandma had Alzheimer also, but we didn't have our kids around her, they were just babies at the time. She had strange behavior too, my favorite was wrapping 1 lonely french fry into a napkin and putting it into the fridge for later! I am understanding that far, but she was in my DS face, I mean she put her face in his face - 3 inches apart. I would hope DH mother could have stepped in, it would have been helpful because I don't deal with this kind of issue daily to put things into perspective. If I am handling it incorrectly at the time, I would also hope they would tell me/help me get through it better for the next time. But nothing was said to myself or my DH, so I feel I'm on my own here.

 

I do think it is bad behavior, whether it is from a small child or someone who has lost their mind. Whether they have control over that behavior is a different story all together, which I know she does not have control even at the best of times. The dog nagging was annoying, but not nearly as worrisome as when she got into his face and told him again.

[Friederike in Persia]

Depending on how you read it, it's pretty bad, and distracts from the real problem that Grandma isn't thinking straight anymore. ;)

 

Not to distract too much from the original question ( I would talk to your ds, too, since it's not possible any more with the grandmother), if "dead" isn't an adjective for issues, how does "issues" fit into the sentence?

[Farrar]

The title really isn't that bad ;).

 

Oh, I don't know... I certainly raised my eyebrows.

 

And, yeah, I think the OP just has to take a deep breath and redirect grandma and maybe vent about it later and let it go. It'll probably only get worse too. :(

[GnomeyNewt]

I respectfully suggest that you educate yourself a bit more about Alzheimer's. Alz.org is an excellent resource. There is no logic left for your husband's grandmother. You're not going to get her to stop "bad behavior" by reasoning with her. This is a fantastic time to teach your child about respect and that his great-grandmother doesn't think or remember the way he does.

 

ETA: A good mantra to remember: "Redirect, redirect, redirect". If you feel grandma is picking on your son, show her a bird outside.

 

Gotcha! I will try this redirect method... which I'm pretty good at most of the time. But this really got under my skin for some reason!

 

I think your right, it is a great time to teach DS about respect... and I will now have a talk with him before we go in and than when we leave we will go over anything that happened. I like this idea. Thanks!

[Ellyndria]

I completely read the title the wrong way too. "What? There are issues with grandma not dropping dead?" Although I knew it was wrong, it took my a couple tries to read it the right way. It was pretty funny after I figured it out.

[sparrow]

Gotcha! I will try this redirect method... which I'm pretty good at most of the time. But this really got under my skin for some reason!

 

I think your right, it is a great time to teach DS about respect... and I will now have a talk with him before we go in and than when we leave we will go over anything that happened. I like this idea. Thanks!

 

 

:grouphug: Believe me, this stuff gets under everyone's skin at one time or another. Redirection makes life sooooooo much easier!

[aggieamy]

I completely read the title the wrong way too. "What? There are issues with grandma not dropping dead?" Although I knew it was wrong, it took my a couple tries to read it the right way. It was pretty funny after I figured it out.

 

Not the OP's fault but we just found out my dear dear grandmother only has a few weeks left to live this week. She also has Alzheimers. I thought long and hard about opening the thread.

 

OP - redirect. It's the only thing you can do. :grouphug:

[jplain]

...but she was in my DS face, I mean she put her face in his face - 3 inches apart.

It sounds like it is the physical intimidation (getting in his face) that really bothers you. How does your son feel about what happened?

ETA: I see that he's only 4, right? Yeah, that would bother me a lot too.

 

I'll agree with previous posters that there's really nothing that can be done about Grandma's behavior. Though little dogs can be tough nuts to crack, it wouldn't hurt to have your son try to befriend him by supplying him with doggy treats (under your supervision!).

 

However, the fact that Grandma isn't going to change doesn't mean you shouldn't find ways to prevent it from happening again. As a child, I wouldn't want to experience that more than once, and I hope my parents would do their best to make sure it didn't happen again.

 

If the doggy treats aren't an option, can you talk to DH's mom about putting the dog outside or in a bedroom during your visits?

Edited November 26, 2011 by jplain

[HeidiKC]

Oh dear, first let me say that the title of the post is a bit worriesome. I read it as your issue being that grandma won't drop dead. :001_huh: I am so glad that is not the case.

 

Omigosh, that's exactly what I thought!!! Now I can chuckle about it, but I was thinking, "WOW, that is pretty...bold and harsh. This is going to be one nasty thread!". So glad it's only about a nasty dog! Good luck with Grandma - I'm sorry you're dealing with that.

[jewellsmommy]

Not the OP's fault but we just found out my dear dear grandmother only has a few weeks left to live this week. She also has Alzheimers. I thought long and hard about opening the thread.

 

OP - redirect. It's the only thing you can do. :grouphug:

 

 

 

I'm so sorry to hear that. :grouphug:

[GnomeyNewt]

Not the OP's fault but we just found out my dear dear grandmother only has a few weeks left to live this week. She also has Alzheimers. I thought long and hard about opening the thread.

 

OP - redirect. It's the only thing you can do. :grouphug:

 

Alzheimers is hard on everybody :(. I'm sorry to hear your Grandmother is not doing too well.

[Starr]

You and ds could make a private joke out of it. Count how many times she reminds him about the dog or something. :grouphug:

[GnomeyNewt]

It sounds like it is the physical intimidation (getting in his face) that really bothers you. How does your son feel about what happened?

ETA: I see that he's only 4, right? Yeah, that would bother me a lot too.

 

I'll agree with previous posters that there's really nothing that can be done about Grandma's behavior. Though little dogs can be tough nuts to crack, it wouldn't hurt to have your son try to befriend him by supplying him with doggy treats (under your supervision!).

 

However, the fact that Grandma isn't going to change doesn't mean you shouldn't find ways to prevent it from happening again. As a child, I wouldn't want to experience that more than once, and I hope my parents would do their best to make sure it didn't happen again.

 

If the doggy treats aren't an option, can you talk to DH's mom about putting the dog outside or in a bedroom during your visits?

 

Yes, when she put her face in his that is when it changed for me personally and so I said something about it, usually I just ignore it and go on with what we are doing. MY DS hasn't mentioned it but he kind of looked surprised at the time, more like whats going on here? He still gets in our faces sometimes, so it was probably more about my own boundary issues.

 

My DD did feed the dog, but it didn't really change the dogs behavior toward her much, so probably won't try with DS. The dog has been put away before (which I prefer of course!), but the general censuses is that my DS & the dog will get used to each other eventually and/or that the dog should be "free" to roam too. I just ignore the dog at all times and both of my kids express that they do not like that dog at all. Probably because it is not friendly like most of the dogs we meet.

[mom2denj]

Oh dear, first let me say that the title of the post is a bit worriesome. I read it as your issue being that grandma won't drop dead. :001_huh: I am so glad that is not the case.

 

As far as the actual problem, I don't know that there is much you can do. Talk to your ds and explain that he is not really doing anything wrong and that grandma has a disease that makes it hard for to think clearly. Then praise him everytime he takes her fussings with grace. :grouphug:

 

I thought the title said the same thing at first. :iagree: This is great advice.

[Rtcrmine]

This sounds like just the beginning. :( Alzheimers patients often become violent. The agitation she feels towards the dog/child issue is pretty standard with this illness.

The best thing you can do is watch her body language and intervene quickly when you see any changes. Redirection is really the only saving grace.

It's such a cruel and heartbreaking disease. The person you once knew like the back of your hand, becomes a complete stranger. It's very scary for them. My grandfather died about 4 years before my grandma was diagnosed, once her disease progressed she literally relived her husbands death daily. It was torture, absolute torture.

Sometimes it's hard not to take what they say personal. I remember my grandma yelling at my 18 month old child. I knew it was the disease talking, but it still hurt.

[tex-mex]

I respectfully suggest that you educate yourself a bit more about Alzheimer's. Alz.org is an excellent resource. There is no logic left for your husband's grandmother. You're not going to get her to stop "bad behavior" by reasoning with her. This is a fantastic time to teach your child about respect and that his great-grandmother doesn't think or remember the way he does.

 

ETA: A good mantra to remember: "Redirect, redirect, redirect". If you feel grandma is picking on your son, show her a bird outside.

:iagree:

As the brain deteriorates, so does the behavior. It only gets worse with most Alzheimer's patients.

[jplain]

...the general censuses is that my DS & the dog will get used to each other eventually and/or that the dog should be "free" to roam too.

Unlikely. In my experience, small dogs may be persistently unfriendly to children. Small dogs are often wary of small humans because it is the nature of children to behave erratically. It is unlikely that'll change during short visits in which dog and child avoid each other.

 

And the part about how dogs should be free to roam? Sure, but only if they don't growl at people who haven't provoked them. There's plenty of time for the dog to roam when your family isn't visiting.

 

Looking at it from the dog's perspective, apparently he feels threatened by small children and/or strangers. It would be compassionate to avoid putting him in situations that cause him stress. Maybe that line of reasoning would work with Grandma's caregivers.

 

ETA: And continuing the train of thought, the dog's response to your son upsets Grandma too. Therefore, putting the dog somewhere else for the visit will make Grandma happier too. Everyone wins! What's not to love? :)

Edited November 26, 2011 by jplain

[scrappyhappymama]

Yes, when she put her face in his that is when it changed for me personally and so I said something about it, usually I just ignore it and go on with what we are doing. MY DS hasn't mentioned it but he kind of looked surprised at the time, more like whats going on here? He still gets in our faces sometimes, so it was probably more about my own boundary issues.

 

My grandmother died when I was 6 years old, and I distinctly remember her yelling a lot in our last few visits and that I was scared. My mom explained to me that my grandma was in a lot of pain, and not really in her right mind (apparently she was heavily medicated and it affected her personality and inhibitions). I still remember this as an adult, but not in a bad way. I think it helped me to be more compassionate and understanding of people in pain and suffering, to see how it affected my dear grandmother. I doubt you son will be scarred by the experience, but I would certainly have an age-appropriate heart-to-heart with him, and let him know that if grandma surprises him like that again, it's not because she doesn't care about him. I'd also teach him a gracious response for the next time she "reminds" him not to tease the dog.

 

My DD did feed the dog, but it didn't really change the dogs behavior toward her much, so probably won't try with DS. The dog has been put away before (which I prefer of course!), but the general censuses is that my DS & the dog will get used to each other eventually and/or that the dog should be "free" to roam too. I just ignore the dog at all times and both of my kids express that they do not like that dog at all. Probably because it is not friendly like most of the dogs we meet.

 

Unlikely. In my experience, small dogs may be persistently unfriendly to children. Small humans make many small dogs nervous because they're less predictable than adult humans are. It is unlikely that'll change during short visits in which dog and child avoid each other.

 

And the part about how dogs should be free to roam? Sure, but only if they don't growl at children who haven't provoked them. There's plenty of time for the dog to roam when children aren't visiting.

 

Looking at it from the dog's perspective, apparently he feels threatened by small children. It would be compassionate to avoid putting him in situations that cause him stress. Maybe that line of reasoning would work with Grandma's caregivers.

 

:iagree: This, to me, is a separate issue from teaching you son how to deal with his ailing grandma. I think a conversation with her caregivers is in order, and perhaps focusing on the well being of the dog would be the best approach. In addition to the great suggestions above, I think I'd add that when the dog is stressed and agitated, it is also making grandma agitated as well. It does seem that the more compassionate choice would be to put the dog out/in a back room/in his crate or wherever he can be comfortable during the duration of the children's visits.

[jewellsmommy]

My grandmother died when I was 6 years old, and I distinctly remember her yelling a lot in our last few visits and that I was scared. My mom explained to me that my grandma was in a lot of pain, and not really in her right mind (apparently she was heavily medicated and it affected her personality and inhibitions). I still remember this as an adult, but not in a bad way. I think it helped me to be more compassionate and understanding of people in pain and suffering, to see how it affected my dear grandmother. I doubt you son will be scarred by the experience, but I would certainly have an age-appropriate heart-to-heart with him, and let him know that if grandma surprises him like that again, it's not because she doesn't care about him. I'd also teach him a gracious response for the next time she "reminds" him not to tease the dog.

 

 

 

 

 

:iagree: This, to me, is a separate issue from teaching you son how to deal with his ailing grandma. I think a conversation with her caregivers is in order, and perhaps focusing on the well being of the dog would be the best approach. In addition to the great suggestions above, I think I'd add that when the dog is stressed and agitated, it is also making grandma agitated as well. It does seem that the more compassionate choice would be to put the dog out/in a back room/in his crate or wherever he can be comfortable during the duration of the children's visits.

 

 

 

Absolutely. The environment needs to be a safe for the children. Just be aware that even removing the dog is not likely to change grandma's reactions. She will likely find something else to fixate on. This is such a hard disease.

 

Dh's grandmother was a paranoid schizophrenic that developed dementia. He spent years trying to reason with her and trying to fix issues before he finally accepted that it just wasn't going to work. Every time he thought he removed an obstacle to her sanity, he sadly discovered that something had taken its place. Sorry your family is going through this.

[GnomeyNewt]

Unlikely. In my experience, small dogs may be persistently unfriendly to children. Small humans make many small dogs nervous because they're less predictable than adult humans are. It is unlikely that'll change during short visits in which dog and child avoid each other.

 

And the part about how dogs should be free to roam? Sure, but only if they don't growl at children who haven't provoked them. There's plenty of time for the dog to roam when children aren't visiting.

 

Looking at it from the dog's perspective, apparently he feels threatened by small children. It would be compassionate to avoid putting him in situations that cause him stress. Maybe that line of reasoning would work with Grandma's caregivers.

 

Thank you! This is how DH & I feel about the dog. Since our first visit, I have asked for the dog to be put away. We visit other dogs on a regular basis and I've seen their owners put them away "just because" with no reason - but this yappy/growly dog that is not nice to most of the guest gets "free range".

 

I like this idea of "from the dogs perspective". Perhaps if we approach it that way, they will see it will help the dog too (and all of us).

[snickelfritz]

Our little dog doesn't like any children but ours. That hasn't changed, even for kids he sees semi-regularly. I think one too many kids rushed up to him and he feels overwhelmed and vulnerable. We crate him.

 

What does your dh think? I suggest a 2-pronged response. When you can see the situation building, one person re-directs the child and one re-directs granny. While I understand teaching respect, I think it's not fair to expect a 4 year old to just deal with being griped out for things he didn't do. That's confusing and scary for him. And honestly, if it gets worse, I would limit his contact. I'm sure that's not how she would want to be remembered by her great-grandkids.

[Candid]

I think you've got great responses from folks about grandma, but I would also have a private, calm chat with dh's mom if she is the care giver and there all the time.

 

I'd ask that the dog be put away before you arrive, and I'd ask that she help in distracting grandma in negative interactions with small children.

 

I, like another poster, have negative memories of my grandfather for similar reasons. Like your son I was pretty young when all those occurred, and like your son I hadn't done anything wrong. Adult explanations from you will help, but it won't remove those negative associations. If dh's mom could focus at least partially on that side of the equation that would help all of you side track this. I'd focus on the goal of trying to make sure the grandchildren have good memories of great grandma.

[laundrycrisis]

While I understand teaching respect, I think it's not fair to expect a 4 year old to just deal with being griped out for things he didn't do. That's confusing and scary for him. And honestly, if it gets worse, I would limit his contact. I'm sure that's not how she would want to be remembered by her great-grandkids.

 

:iagree:

 

I would stand up for my son to Grandma even if she won't get it, because I would want to do it for him. She will remain confused no matter what. I would want my son to remember that I stood up for him. I would say once, very clearly, "Grandma, you are confused. DS is not teasing your dog." And then drop it after that no matter what she says. HOWEVER....when we went to visit, I would bring my own little crate and crate that dog while we were there. If possible, in another room with the door shut. I would make it a condition of the visits.

Edited November 26, 2011 by laundrycrisis

[*Lulu*]

I think you've got great responses from folks about grandma, but I would also have a private, calm chat with dh's mom if she is the care giver and there all the time.

 

I'd ask that the dog be put away before you arrive, and I'd ask that she help in distracting grandma in negative interactions with small children.

 

>snip<

 

 

:iagree: The caregivers should be helping you navigate this.

 

 

We have had several relatives with Alzheimer's and/or dementia and it can be very draining emotionally. It is also why I completely understood what you were trying to say in the thread title before I clicked the thread open. One of my grandmothers became obsessed with two or three issues in her last year and no matter what the family did, in her mind it was as though the problem was ongoing. I cannot tell you how many extra trips across town my mother or I drove to clear up a misunderstanding at the long-term care facility.

 

:grouphug:

 

At one point I had to quit visiting with the kids because their presence so upset her. Your job is to be a mom first, and to love her as well as you can while doing your first job. Hopefully your DH's parents will be able to step up and make the situation better, but if they can't/won't you and your DH should not feel guilty about making changes that protect all parties from needless distress.

[kalanamak]

 

I'd ask that the dog be put away before you arrive, and I'd ask that she help in distracting grandma in negative interactions with small children.

 

 

Another thought: is she not wanting the littles to visit? I remember my mother saying that she knew HER mother was "going" because she asked not to have the children come any more. And I knew my mother was fading when there were only a few people she wanted to see. Perhaps fewer and more grown up people should visit.

 

And, if that is her reaction, she is teaching the dog the child is bad, and that dog could easily move on to biting.

[Laurie4b]

Would it be totally impractical just to escort your ds when he needed to walk somewhere ? Then you or dh would be with him and he wouldn't be alone with an adult in his face, even for a few seconds.

[FaithManor]

Saying this gently...don't take ds to see grandma anymore.

 

Sigh...talking from experience. I was rather traumatized as a child by a mentally ill grandparent who singled me out for the one that she had to ride like a rented mule about a non-existent issue. You can't reason with someone like that. My parents just thought I should get a stiff upper lip and deal with it because it was so important to visit great-grandma. Unforunately, it escalated and one day when I was minding my own business sitting on her couch and nothing was going on...literally, I was just sitting there, not talking, not moving, etc. She decided became angry with me about something she'd hallucinated that I'd done and hit me.

Decked.me.hard. I fell off the couch and my mom went balistic on her grandmother. That was the end. I never visited her again and my dad refused to allow me to even attend her funeral. He was afraid I'd be even further upset. The damage was done though...I was in my 20's before I was mature enough to let go of that anxiety of sick, elderly people and visit any other relatives with similar problems or in a nursing home. I practically had panic attacks about nursing homes.

 

So, I vote for not taking him. He may not be mature enough to compartmentalize her behavior, disease, irrational feelings, and his own feelings too.

 

Faith

[vettechmomof2]

Unlikely. In my experience, small dogs may be persistently unfriendly to children. Small dogs are often wary of small humans because it is the nature of children to behave erratically. It is unlikely that'll change during short visits in which dog and child avoid each other.

 

And the part about how dogs should be free to roam? Sure, but only if they don't growl at people who haven't provoked them. There's plenty of time for the dog to roam when your family isn't visiting.

 

Looking at it from the dog's perspective, apparently he feels threatened by small children and/or strangers. It would be compassionate to avoid putting him in situations that cause him stress. Maybe that line of reasoning would work with Grandma's caregivers.

 

ETA: And continuing the train of thought, the dog's response to your son upsets Grandma too. Therefore, putting the dog somewhere else for the visit will make Grandma happier too. Everyone wins! What's not to love? :)

:iagree: