deacongirl Posted November 21, 2011 Share Posted November 21, 2011 http://www.npr.org/blogs/thetwo-way/2011/11/21/142586964/uc-davis-pepper-spraying-police-chief-put-on-leave-chancellor-to-speak I think this is a good chance to discuss with children the history of civil disobedience and non-violent protest in this country, and our rights to free assembly and speech. Also a good chance to study conflict resolution--and examples from the past where it has been successfully handled differently than at UC Davis and Berkeley. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
katilac Posted November 21, 2011 Share Posted November 21, 2011 http://www.npr.org/blogs/thetwo-way/2011/11/21/142586964/uc-davis-pepper-spraying-police-chief-put-on-leave-chancellor-to-speak I think this is a good chance to discuss with children the history of civil disobedience and non-violent protest in this country, and our rights to free assembly and speech. Also a good chance to study conflict resolution--and examples from the past where it has been successfully handled differently than at UC Davis and Berkeley. Wow, thanks for sharing. We were out and about this weekend, and I missed this. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mrs Mungo Posted November 21, 2011 Share Posted November 21, 2011 The video is shocking. There is no way that officer felt threatened. He was clearly using the pepper spray in a punitive manner. It is amazing that someone could be so brazen in a group of students taking photos and videos. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
celticmom Posted November 21, 2011 Share Posted November 21, 2011 I saw an article yesterday on yahoo that said that two officers were on administrative leave due to pepper spraying the students. I can't find the article now but I was glad to see that they did not get away with it. I hope they end up fired. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
elegantlion Posted November 21, 2011 Share Posted November 21, 2011 The video is shocking. There is no way that officer felt threatened. He was clearly using the pepper spray in a punitive manner. It is amazing that someone could be so brazen in a group of students taking photos and videos. :iagree::iagree: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
livingnlearning Posted November 21, 2011 Share Posted November 21, 2011 I can't even watch the video of it, it's horrible. The police aren't always wrong though, protests can go bad on both sides. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mrs Mungo Posted November 21, 2011 Share Posted November 21, 2011 I can't even watch the video of it, it's horrible. The police aren't always wrong though, protests can go bad on both sides. I haven't seen anyone make any generalized statements. My statements are only about *this* incident. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
seraphina Posted November 21, 2011 Share Posted November 21, 2011 I can't even watch the video of it, it's horrible. The police aren't always wrong though, protests can go bad on both sides. I didn't see anyone say police are always wrong, I believe people were referring to this particular incident which is horrific. That is part of the teachability of this incident. Of course not all police are bad, generalizations are horrible and it's important as parents that we explain that to our children. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
deacongirl Posted November 21, 2011 Author Share Posted November 21, 2011 I thought this was an interesting take on what could have led the police officer to behave as he did, referencing George Orwell's reflection on shooting an elephant: http://www.theatlantic.com/politics/archive/2011/11/what-george-orwell-can-teach-us-about-police-brutality/248797/ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
livingnlearning Posted November 21, 2011 Share Posted November 21, 2011 I didn't say anyone did make a generalization. :confused: I think it's fair to point out that police have been getting treated badly recently by some protestors. As long as we're having teachable moments. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jilly Posted November 21, 2011 Share Posted November 21, 2011 The video is shocking. There is no way that officer felt threatened. He was clearly using the pepper spray in a punitive manner. It is amazing that someone could be so brazen in a group of students taking photos and videos. :iagree: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
staceyobu Posted November 21, 2011 Share Posted November 21, 2011 I have watched the video. I thought pepper spray was fairly standard to break up protests when they are in a space they aren't supposed to be in? I mean, you can't just camp out anywhere you want, right? I read somewhere that it was less dangerous for the protestors to be sprayed than it was to just try to yank them apart? And the university had told the police to move them. I think protests should be allowed to the fullest extent possible because it preserves our freedom. I also would not be happy if people were camping in front of my house. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wolfmeis Posted November 21, 2011 Share Posted November 21, 2011 Specific to this situation, the officers were completely in the wrong on a number of points. http://studentactivism.net/2011/11/20/ten-things-you-should-know-about-fridays-uc-davis-police-violence/ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Halcyon Posted November 21, 2011 Share Posted November 21, 2011 My kids watched this and my younger said "I thought the police weren't supposed to break the law!!!" Both were shocked. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Denise in Florida Posted November 21, 2011 Share Posted November 21, 2011 I have watched the video. I thought pepper spray was fairly standard to break up protests when they are in a space they aren't supposed to be in? I mean, you can't just camp out anywhere you want, right? I read somewhere that it was less dangerous for the protestors to be sprayed than it was to just try to yank them apart? And the university had told the police to move them. I think protests should be allowed to the fullest extent possible because it preserves our freedom. I also would not be happy if people were camping in front of my house. No... you don't pepper spray people who are just sitting there. No ... you do not spray pepper spray from that short a distance. The police were clearly in the wrong. The protestors were using non violent resistance and the officers moved to chemical weapons. Just because it is not fatal does not make it less of a weapon. Not only was this inappropriate for the situation but that type of over-aggression leads to further aggression. The next set of demonstrators (in California or elsewhere) will be that much less likely to remain calm and seated during a confrontation. These officers have increased the risks for both sides. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
deacongirl Posted November 21, 2011 Author Share Posted November 21, 2011 I have watched the video. I thought pepper spray was fairly standard to break up protests when they are in a space they aren't supposed to be in? I mean, you can't just camp out anywhere you want, right? I read somewhere that it was less dangerous for the protestors to be sprayed than it was to just try to yank them apart? And the university had told the police to move them. I think protests should be allowed to the fullest extent possible because it preserves our freedom. I also would not be happy if people were camping in front of my house. They should have arrested them. There is even a former cop, now professor at John Jay College, who blogged about it: "And if police need to remove these students, then the police can go in four officers to one protester and remove them. Lift them up and take them away. Maybe you need one or two more officers with a threatening baton to keep others from getting involved. It really can be that simple. People don’t hate the police for fighting off aggressors or arresting law breakers. They do hate police for causing pain—be it by dog, fire hose, Taser, or mace—to those who passively resist. And that’s what happened yesterday at U.C. Davis." http://www.washingtonmonthly.com/ten-miles-square/2011/11/dumbass_training_and_the_uc_da033608.php or http://www.huffingtonpost.com/bob-ostertag/uc-davis-protest_b_1103039.html "How about this for another option: three years ago there was a very similar occupation of the quad at Columbia University in New York City by students protesting the way the expansion of the university was displacing residents in the neighborhood. There was a core group of twenty or thirty students there around the clock. At the high points there were 200-300. The administration met with the students and held serious discussions about their concerns. And after a couple of weeks the protest had run its course and the students took the tents down. The most severe action that was even contemplated on the part of the university was to expel students who were hunger striking, under a rule that allows the school to expel students who are considered a threat to themselves." Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Halcyon Posted November 21, 2011 Share Posted November 21, 2011 I have been arrested a number of times for non-violent civil disobedience, and we were MUCH more.....um.....disobedient than those students were....I have never been pepper sprayed. We also did not "listen" when asked to disperse. Still, no pepper spray. We were physically picked up, handcuffed, and placed in a waiting police van. The police, in this instance, were totally in the wrong. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
abbeyej Posted November 21, 2011 Share Posted November 21, 2011 It's an awful situation. I'm shocked the chancellor has not been required to resign yet. By authorizing the police to use violent force on the students in her care, she has lost all credibility. I'm sympathetic to the university position that students should not be *camping* on the property. Hauling kids away (and given that they were sitting peacefully and had, in this case, not resisted) would perhaps have been appropriate. Or simply removing the tents. Pepper spray from point-blank range on seated, non-violent students in her care was wildly inappropriate and unacceptable. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Denise in Florida Posted November 21, 2011 Share Posted November 21, 2011 It's an awful situation. I'm shocked the chancellor has not been required to resign yet. By authorizing the police to use violent force on the students in her care, she has lost all credibility. I'm sympathetic to the university position that students should not be *camping* on the property. Hauling kids away (and given that they were sitting peacefully and had, in this case, not resisted) would perhaps have been appropriate. Or simply removing the tents. Pepper spray from point-blank range on seated, non-violent students in her care was wildly inappropriate and unacceptable. :iagree: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Caraway Posted November 21, 2011 Share Posted November 21, 2011 (edited) nm Edited November 22, 2011 by Caraway Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BatmansWife Posted November 21, 2011 Share Posted November 21, 2011 They are just showing this on the news right now. It's shocking!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nmoira Posted November 22, 2011 Share Posted November 22, 2011 They are just showing this on the news right now. It's shocking!! If you have a few minutes, I'd suggest watching the longer clip in the OP. I was impressed with how the student spectators handled themselves and the situation after the pepper spray incident. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Margo out of lurking Posted November 22, 2011 Share Posted November 22, 2011 If you have a few minutes, I'd suggest watching the longer clip in the OP. I was impressed with how the student spectators handled themselves and the situation after the pepper spray incident. :iagree::iagree::iagree: I watched a video on youtube yesterday. I don't know enough about the whole situation to have an opinion, but what really impressed me was how calm the students remained. There was a lot of shouting. In an escalating situation like that, it's so easy to have that mob mentality, but the students didn't fall into that. That will stick with me for a long time. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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