Addition and Subtraction tables

[Ohio12]

I know I am going to get all kinds of answers to this, but here goes anyway. How long should it take dd to learn her tables? She is 5.5 and right now we are drilling the 2 addition tables maybe 3-4 times a week. It is just taking her FOREVER to get them. After about 3 weeks, she still knows maybe 2/3 of them and if I scramble them up, I am not sure she would know half. Any tricks for this? Ideas?

[Johanna]

My ds is 6.5 and still doesnt have them down. I am also getting weary....but hopeful that with practice it will eventually click!

[Julie in GA]

Children this young should just be experiencing math in a concrete way, by playing with manipulatives, and counting/sorting things. If you wait until your dd is, say, 8 years old to learn tables, you'll be surprised at how quickly she'll learn them.

[beansprouts]

I know I am going to get all kinds of answers to this, but here goes anyway. How long should it take dd to learn her tables? She is 5.5 and right now we are drilling the 2 addition tables maybe 3-4 times a week. It is just taking her FOREVER to get them. After about 3 weeks, she still knows maybe 2/3 of them and if I scramble them up, I am not sure she would know half. Any tricks for this? Ideas?

 

How many is she trying to learn at once? I would start small with maybe five facts. At first just show her the card and read it off for her. Go through them 3 to 5 times, then see if she can remember any of them. I would drill them at least three times a day until she knows them well. Then add five more and continue the process.

[beansprouts]

Children this young should just be experiencing math in a concrete way, by playing with manipulatives, and counting/sorting things. If you wait until your dd is, say, 8 years old to learn tables, you'll be surprised at how quickly she'll learn them.

 

And I absolutely agree with Julie. I didn't want my dd just memorizing the facts until she had plenty of time computing with manipulatives. That's why I dumped Saxon in 1st grade. Unless you are confident that she understands the process I would not progress with the memorization.

[Chris in VA]

You have plenty of time. I'd hold off--she's only in K, right? Saxon doesn't "require" proficiency in math tables until the end of 3rd grade. That's about 3-4 years from where you are now. Plenty of time...:001_smile:

[Julie Herbster]

I am a Saxon user...My dc have had plenty of experience with manipulatives while learning their math facts. We don't do any recitation of the facts, but the kids do a daily fact sheet (with related facts, like the "doubles" or "plus 2's") and have regular flash card practice. I let my kindergartener use her linking cubes to fill in the answers on her fact sheet, but she didn't need them after a while. She has the doubles, plus ones, plus twos, and doubles plus ones down cold. She has to process a subtraction fact a little longer before answering, but that doesn't bother me. My main concern is that she understand the operations, not just spit back memorized answers to facts (although I do want her to be able to do that eventually as well).

 

Don't worry...Your dc will get it in time! Just keep plugging away, and make it fun!

[Ohio12]

Thanks for your input everyone.

 

What I don't understand about the "wait" approach is that it seems to go against a lot of what WTM and others say about pumping them full of information when they are young. The idea that it is so easy for them to memorize now while they are little. My friends who have kids in Classical Conversations memorize tons and tons of stuff. This is so little compared to that.

 

I just wondered if I am doing something wrong and what average would be?

 

The tip about Saxon requiring proficiency by third grade is helpful. I thought she would need to have them by the end of first grade.

 

PS We have done lots of manipulatives as well. She can do 2+2 if I give her some beans to figure it out with.

[Melinda]

We've been doing something fun to learn addition and subtraction here lately. I set out 3 pieces of printer paper and a plus or minus, and an equal sign. Then, I arrange it so it forms a math problem. After the papers are set up, I add our manipulatives (usually cheerios, but once in a while m&ms). Then we get to work on adding/subtracting. They get to eat the equations they get correct, which they love. One thing I wish I would have started doing right away is arranging the pieces the way they look on dice. It's much easier for them to tell how many are there if a group of five always looks the same. Hope this makes sense. If not, I can take a picture tomorrow when we do this and post it.

[Melinda]

Forgot to say we are also using Saxon.

[beansprouts]

I let my kindergartener use her linking cubes to fill in the answers on her fact sheet, but she didn't need them after a while.

 

I like this idea! I did not think of it while I had Saxon. Guess I could have used you all back then :)

 

And I do not "wait" to teach my kids. ;) I simply changed my approach. I left Saxon for Miquon and now we use Singapore. Both are actually faster paced programs, and dd learned all the basic operations before she was finished with first grade. She learned through a concrete manipulative-based approach which encourages creative problem solving skills and experimenting with real quantities. She fully understood the operations on a concrete level before memorizing the facts. In fact she began to "memorize" on her own simply by working the problems. You see, my challenge with her is that she memorizes things a bit *too* quickly, and it is difficult sometimes to know whether she truly understands or is just spouting off answers.

 

That is not to say your challenges will be the same as mine. You know what is best for your child. If you think now is prime time for her to absorb and retain the facts, go for it! My first response was the method that worked best for us when we got to that point.

[holdinon]

Thanks for your input everyone.

 

What I don't understand about the "wait" approach is that it seems to go against a lot of what WTM and others say about pumping them full of information when they are young. The idea that it is so easy for them to memorize now while they are little. My friends who have kids in Classical Conversations memorize tons and tons of stuff. This is so little compared to that.

 

 

I don't know if it's a number thing or what, but my dd could memorize tons of info: bible verses (entire chapters even), poems, grammar rules, declaration of independence, states and capitals...the list goes on and on... very easily from early 1st grade. She loved to do it, and was always asking for other "stuff" to memorize. ( I think she really liked showing off in front of grandma:)) But she did not get her math facts down till MUCH later. I never did understand why she could memorize other things so easily (and quickly) and it take as long as it did on the math....but I don't guess it really matters now because now she does know them very well....So don't worry... it will come!

 

I am just now beginning to drill my 2nd dd with facts. She's 7. She seems to be doing much better than her big sis did at that age. I don't know if it has anything to do with waiting till later to begin, or if she would have picked them up earlier anyway....Who knows????

[Elaine]

I agree with the others. Put it on the back burner, maybe just for the summer. I had to do this with my oldest because I was getting crazy. What seemed so easy for me, was a completely new concept to him and I had to chill. Putting it off for a little while made a huge difference.

 

When we did pick it back up, I would begin our math lessons with drilling the facts. I would fold a piece of paper in 3's and have him write out the times tables (e.g. all the 6's or all the 7's) in each column for a total of three times written. We would then say them out loud 3 times. It wasn't very long before he had it.

 

I know it can be frustrating, but she will get it.:001_smile:

[Reya]

Ouch. Addition and subtraction should be understood, not memorized! Drill should be for speed only. There shouldn't be any problems with not knowing the answer after the first lesson on a particular strategy. If she's having problems "memorizing," then she's spouting words without meaning.

 

For me, this would be a major red flag, a warning that comprehension isn't anywhere where it should be. I'd switch approaches--and I'd switch programs away from one that would create such a problem in the first place.

[beansprouts]

I never did understand why she could memorize other things so easily (and quickly) and it take as long as it did on the math....but I don't guess it really matters now because now she does know them very well....So don't worry... it will come!

 

I discovered the same to be true for dd when we finally did get around to memorizing those facts. I think the difference was that poems, etc., are all language based, and dd is very good with language. I think the math is processed differently, and your younger dd may simply have that kind of learning style.

[sixlilmonkeys]

She is still young - but maybe you can try to 'master' the easy ones, like doubles, +1, +2 and any single digit added to 10. If she masters those fact families, I think thats pretty impressive for a kinder. Thats what we are doing here.

 

Also, I just got Flashmaster (from SL) and that has added a fun twist to our math facts we are trying to memorize. At first I didn't want to spend the $$$, but with 6 kids...I think it will get used :o)