momto2Cs Posted November 19, 2011 Share Posted November 19, 2011 I am reading, with my ds10, through The Magic of Reality: How We Know What is Really True by Richard Dawkins, and we are really enjoying it. It is well written, and clear (easy enough to understand), and covers topics like DNA, empty space, organic chemistry, various scientists, etc. It is definitely secular and has a lot of evolutionary material (as a warning). I was going to read The Story of Science(Hakim) with him but I'm not sure he's ready yet, and this is great in the meantime! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dana Posted November 19, 2011 Share Posted November 19, 2011 Our library has it... I'm 5 in queue. Thanks :) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nmoira Posted November 19, 2011 Share Posted November 19, 2011 DD the Elder likes this book so much, she made a point of specially thanking me for getting it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MamaSheep Posted November 19, 2011 Share Posted November 19, 2011 How, if at all, does it address religion? I ask, because some authors of this type of book seem to have a bit of a chip on their shoulder and make a big point of showing why they think God is a myth--and therefore the reader should too. Other authors take a more diplomatic approach. And some just don't go there at all, not even mentioning religion. I just like to know which approach I'm getting into. :) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Skadi Posted November 19, 2011 Share Posted November 19, 2011 How, if at all, does it address religion? I ask, because some authors of this type of book seem to have a bit of a chip on their shoulder and make a big point of showing why they think God is a myth--and therefore the reader should too. Other authors take a more diplomatic approach. And some just don't go there at all, not even mentioning religion. I just like to know which approach I'm getting into. :) The book confines religion to the myth sections that begin each chapter before going on to the science. Several different religious traditions are highlighted, without any one in particular being emphasized (Aztecs, Australian aborigines, Polynesians, ancient Egyptians, etc.). The book basically promotes the message that science and religion are very separate entities, and that scientific truth is much different than religious or philosophical truth. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MamaSheep Posted November 19, 2011 Share Posted November 19, 2011 The book confines religion to the myth sections that begin each chapter before going on to the science. Several different religious traditions are highlighted, without any one in particular being emphasized (Aztecs, Australian aborigines, Polynesians, ancient Egyptians, etc.). The book basically promotes the message that science and religion are very separate entities, and that scientific truth is much different than religious or philosophical truth. Thanks. :) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zenjenn Posted November 19, 2011 Share Posted November 19, 2011 How, if at all, does it address religion? I'm not familiar with this particular book, but I am familiar with Richard Dawkins. He is an atheist *advocate* and vocal critic of religion. (As opposed to just a person who does not happen to believe in God.) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
serendipitous journey Posted November 19, 2011 Share Posted November 19, 2011 I am reading, with my ds10, through The Magic of Reality: How We Know What is Really True by Richard Dawkins, and we are really enjoying it. ... this looks terrific; I am wondering, is it anti-religion? We are not Christian, and are teaching evolution &c, but I'm struggling against local culture to raise a child deeply respectful of the importance of God and religion to other persons. Dawkins can sometimes be anti-God (as in, "The God Delusion" ;)) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
melmichigan Posted November 19, 2011 Share Posted November 19, 2011 I'm not familiar with this particular book, but I am familiar with Richard Dawkins. He is an atheist *advocate* and vocal critic of religion. (As opposed to just a person who does not happen to believe in God.) His science books, including this one, don't have the same voice as his books on religion. If you search the title on WTM there have been a few threads to that account. My DD just finished reading it and enjoyed it, definately not like the God Delusion, which I haven't yet finished. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nmoira Posted November 19, 2011 Share Posted November 19, 2011 How, if at all, does it address religion? I ask, because some authors of this type of book seem to have a bit of a chip on their shoulder and make a big point of showing why they think God is a myth--and therefore the reader should too. Other authors take a more diplomatic approach. And some just don't go there at all, not even mentioning religion. I just like to know which approach I'm getting into. :)I would not begin to characterize Dawkins as diplomatic, but this book is no screed. It is, however, definitely in the former camp, but all mythologies are treated equally; Christianity is not a target, per se, though (as would be expected from Dawkins) neither is it afforded special status. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Skadi Posted November 19, 2011 Share Posted November 19, 2011 I think Melissa has the right of it. This book is about science, not religion. Religion is hardly mentioned at all. Dawkins was interviewed recently where he said that he didn't want to make the mistake of trying to present his views to children who by all rights are not yet mature enough to critically think for themselves. His purpose in writing this book was not to tell children what to think, but how to think. I believe that the only criticism a religious person might have about the book is that it does not include a compatibilitist view of that offers religion as an equal competitor with science (e.g. the author would not present all the scientific evidence for an idea and then say, "But there is another explanation found in the Bible/Tao te Ching/Quran..."). Most Christian scientists are not compatibilists, either, so I don't think this is something unique to the author's views on religion. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Farrar Posted November 19, 2011 Share Posted November 19, 2011 And it's illustrated by Dave McKean! :D Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EKS Posted November 19, 2011 Share Posted November 19, 2011 We're going to be using this as well. I read the first chapter and absolutely love it! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nmoira Posted November 19, 2011 Share Posted November 19, 2011 I think Melissa has the right of it. This book is about science, not religion. Religion is hardly mentioned at all. Dawkins was interviewed recently where he said that he didn't want to make the mistake of trying to present his views to children who by all rights are not yet mature enough to critically think for themselves. His purpose in writing this book was not to tell children what to think, but how to think. I believe that the only criticism a religious person might have about the book is that it does not include a compatibilitist view of that offers religion as an equal competitor with science (e.g. the author would not present all the scientific evidence for an idea and then say, "But there is another explanation found in the Bible/Tao te Ching/Quran..."). Most Christian scientists are not compatibilists, either, so I don't think this is something unique to the author's views on religion. Yes. There's a fantastic clip of Neil deGrasse Tyson talking about the God of the Gaps, using "___ can't be explained, so there must be a god" as a proof. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nmoira Posted November 19, 2011 Share Posted November 19, 2011 Has anyone seen the iPad edition? I've only got two friends with iPads, and haven't been able to talk them into getting it yet. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Carrie12345 Posted November 19, 2011 Share Posted November 19, 2011 Has anyone seen the iPad edition? I've only got two friends with iPads, and haven't been able to talk them into getting it yet. Dh splurged on the app version when he didn't want to wait for the book. It's incredible!!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Halcyon Posted November 19, 2011 Share Posted November 19, 2011 Just put this on hold at the library-thank you! We're 2nd in line! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Miss Tick Posted November 19, 2011 Share Posted November 19, 2011 Thanks, I too put it on hold and look forward to checking it out. I'm guessing that it will be of interest to my dc due to the high-graphic content... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JennyD Posted November 19, 2011 Share Posted November 19, 2011 Has anyone seen the iPad edition? I've only got two friends with iPads, and haven't been able to talk them into getting it yet. I was wondering about that, too. What is the iPad edition supposed to be, exactly? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nmoira Posted November 19, 2011 Share Posted November 19, 2011 I was wondering about that, too. What is the iPad edition supposed to be, exactly? From the app store: Key Features: • Full text from the new hardback book The Magic of Reality, beautifully re-imagined for the iPad • Over 250 original illustrations from world-renowned artist Dave McKean • Unique visual navigation and intuitive gesture controls • Exclusive audio and video from Richard Dawkins • Over 75 stunning animations that leap from the screen to bring the ancient myths to life • Interactive demonstrations and games that allow you to get hands on with the science: - Create your own rainbows using prisms and light - Journey through space to understand the vastness of our universe - Simulate the effects of heat, pressure and gravity on different states of matter - Travel back in time to find out what your ancient ancestors looked like - Artificially breed frogs to escape a hungry snake - Fire Newton’s cannon around the Earth - And more! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alte Veste Academy Posted November 19, 2011 Share Posted November 19, 2011 Yes. There's a fantastic clip of Neil deGrasse Tyson talking about the God of the Gaps, using "___ can't be explained, so there must be a god" as a proof. Thanks for posting the link. That was fabulous! The book is great. We have been reading it here. I think it is the perfect thing to go with a study of prehistory and the beginning of SOTW1. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tammyw Posted November 19, 2011 Share Posted November 19, 2011 I'm still on the library wait list - have been for months. I might have to get the iPad version-that looks fabulous! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dana Posted November 19, 2011 Share Posted November 19, 2011 Yes. There's a fantastic clip of Neil deGrasse Tyson talking about the God of the Gaps, using "___ can't be explained, so there must be a god" as a proof. :toetap05: Thanks. Just spent time on youtube. Dratted additional links. Grump. I just bought one of his Teaching Company series. Really looking forward to it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chrysalis Academy Posted November 19, 2011 Share Posted November 19, 2011 We *love* this book. We have a copy and I was going to do read-aloud with it, but then I realized that Richard Dawkins reads it himself (alternating with a woman) on the audiobook version, so I got that and we listen to him read it. I pause it if there is a critical point I want to make sure the girls understand, or they stop me if they have a question, but it's so fun to listen to Dawkin's own voice. However, caveat emptor if you are religious and easily offended: this is Richard Dawkins, after all. He doesn't exactly attack religion or religious beliefs, but he treats christianity just as he treats other religious beliefs, past and current, clearly within the realm of myth. He cautions the reader against relying on the supernatural as an *explanation* for phenomena. I'm sure there are readers who will be offended by this book, and you probably know who you are and would never pick up a Dawkins book to save your life. For everyone else, it's a thoroughly enjoyable read, and a great way to learn about foundational scientific concepts very accessibly. Highly reccommended. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jay3fer Posted November 20, 2011 Share Posted November 20, 2011 Hmm... so curious I had to reserve this too. You-all must live in some SMALL towns - here, I'm 70th in line!!! Just to stir things up, and I KNOW the book isn't about religion, but I went to hear the Chief Rabbi of England 2 weeks ago and he just had a chat with Dawkins a couple of weeks before. You can listen to their conversation here: http://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/b015yr4h if you're curious. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChandlerMom Posted November 20, 2011 Share Posted November 20, 2011 I guess one benefit of living in this part of the country is there was no wait at all for this book at the library! :lol: Personally, I think when Dawkins is focussed on the science he's amazing -- I really enjoyed Ancestor's Tale. I think his issues with religionS (or more exactly, the consequences of religions) are understandable (historical source of conflict; ends critical thought). I think he is honest and up front about that. You won't see any overt anti-YE arguments simply because he doesn't believe they warrant it. :D He isn't so much against religion as anti-fundamentalism, be it islamic or christian. I do think there are places in this latest book where his opinion overshadows his knowledge, for example the whole last chapter is basically that miracles don't exist because they defy laws of nature and you should always go with the most likely reason (lies, delusion) rather than the less likely (miracles). Gee, I don't know how string theory flies without a little suspension of disbelief (at least belief well beyond what we can sense, trusting in the math of multiple dimensions). I think that "the simplest answer is usually the right one" is a valid criterion to interpret reality, but it isn't the only one, and I think he glosses over the fact he is making an assumption. If you are not easily offended, I think there is a lot in Dawkin's work to spark many interesting discussions. Whether you love him or hate him, at least he says what he believes and why he believes it, there's no ulterior motives or hidden agendas with him. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Free Posted November 20, 2011 Share Posted November 20, 2011 (edited) The book looks really good. Have added it into my wishlist. As an aside, are there any other books the hive can recommend for kids on skeptical thinking and scientific enquiry? Edited November 20, 2011 by Free Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chrysalis Academy Posted November 20, 2011 Share Posted November 20, 2011 The book looks really good. Have added it into my wishlist. As an aside, are there any other books the hive can recommend for kids on skeptical thinking and scientific enquiry? Well, this wouldn't work for young kids, but definitely for older kids or a read-aloud at the Jr high level - The Demon-Haunted World by Carl Sagan. I also love Nebel's "Baloney Detection Kit" in BFSU. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jar7709 Posted November 20, 2011 Share Posted November 20, 2011 Well, this wouldn't work for young kids, but definitely for older kids or a read-aloud at the Jr high level - The Demon-Haunted World by Carl Sagan. I also love Nebel's "Baloney Detection Kit" in BFSU. :iagree: Also for younger kids, "Maybe Yes, Maybe No" by Dan Barker. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
faiths13 Posted November 20, 2011 Share Posted November 20, 2011 im wondering what age range you think this is good for? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jplain Posted November 20, 2011 Share Posted November 20, 2011 (edited) We have a copy and I was going to do read-aloud with it, but then I realized that Richard Dawkins reads it himself (alternating with a woman) on the audiobook version, so I got that and we listen to him read it.In case you haven't gotten to it yet, there were two passages in the chapter on aliens that DH had to edit on the fly. I think both dealt with historical and contemporary accounts of non-humans (aliens, succubi, incubi) performing sex acts on humans. It was less than a half dozen sentences, so not hard to skip. im wondering what age range you think this is good forDH is reading it to our science-minded 8-year-old, and they're both enjoying it a lot. Edited November 20, 2011 by jplain Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Free Posted November 21, 2011 Share Posted November 21, 2011 Well, this wouldn't work for young kids, but definitely for older kids or a read-aloud at the Jr high level - The Demon-Haunted World by Carl Sagan. I also love Nebel's "Baloney Detection Kit" in BFSU. :iagree:Also for younger kids, "Maybe Yes, Maybe No" by Dan Barker. Thanks for the recommendations. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EmilyK Posted December 11, 2011 Share Posted December 11, 2011 But someone here recommended the audio book. We just started listening last night and it is really good. I kind of wished I waited for a car trip since it is good enough for all of us to listen to, even my husband, who'd prefer not to listen to books geared just at littles. It was just me and my 13 year old last night, but I think my 9 year old will enjoy it too. I guess I'm surprised that there's anything inappropriate in a book that's so accessible for kids (discussion earlier in the thread of succubi etc). I did listen with an ear for whether folks on this board would be offended. I'm a non-literal Christian and wasn't, and of course many people can listen to views they don't agree with and not be offended. But he's very direct in repeatedly rejecting supernatural explanations for anything, and not dodging the issue as most other science books do. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spy Car Posted December 11, 2011 Share Posted December 11, 2011 We just started reading this and so far it is simply outstanding. Bill Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nmoira Posted December 11, 2011 Share Posted December 11, 2011 We just started reading this and so far it is simply outstanding. Bill Did you get the iPad app? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spy Car Posted December 11, 2011 Share Posted December 11, 2011 Did you get the iPad app? No. I got a library copy. It has taken months on the wait list. Now I'm starting to wish I'd purchased a hard copy as a Christmas gift. I had some doubts about Dawkins and the tone he might take with children. Still not sure since we've just started, but it is more impressive on first glance that I'd imagined. Bill Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
momto2Cs Posted December 12, 2011 Author Share Posted December 12, 2011 No. I got a library copy. It has taken months on the wait list. Now I'm starting to wish I'd purchased a hard copy as a Christmas gift. I had some doubts about Dawkins and the tone he might take with children. Still not sure since we've just started, but it is more impressive on first glance that I'd imagined. Bill I need to buy a copy as well. I was lucky enough to borrow it from my dad, since the library waitlist would put me in spot 128 :ohmy: but my dad wants it back, and we're not done! Maybe I should just read faster... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alte Veste Academy Posted December 12, 2011 Share Posted December 12, 2011 No. I got a library copy. It has taken months on the wait list. Now I'm starting to wish I'd purchased a hard copy as a Christmas gift. Buy it. BUY IT! :D (I like to think if I support books like this, they'll publish more. Vote with your dollar, I say.) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nmoira Posted December 12, 2011 Share Posted December 12, 2011 Buy it. BUY IT! :D (I like to think if I support books like this, they'll publish more. Vote with your dollar, I say.) And while you're at it, email Simon and Schuster (Books for Young Readers) and ask them why George and the Big Bang by Stephen Hawking and Lucy Hawking has not yet been released in the US. I had to order our copy from the UK. It's been months, and there's not even a projected release date, which makes me suspicious. http://kids.simonandschuster.com/ There's a Contact Us link at the bottom of the page. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alte Veste Academy Posted December 12, 2011 Share Posted December 12, 2011 And while you're at it, email Simon and Schuster (Books for Young Readers) and ask them why George and the Big Bang by Stephen Hawking and Lucy Hawking has not yet been released in the US. I had to order our copy from the UK. It's been months, and there's not even a projected release date, which makes me suspicious. http://kids.simonandschuster.com/ There's a Contact Us link at the bottom of the page. Projected release date 8/28/12. :) But, yeah, I want it yesterday so I'll probably have to order from the UK too. The book does not fit in with SOTW2, which we'll be starting 8/12. :glare: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Halcyon Posted December 12, 2011 Share Posted December 12, 2011 We're reading this aloud too now, and both my boys are enjoying it. We will likely be buying it as well (we got our copy from the library). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nmoira Posted December 12, 2011 Share Posted December 12, 2011 Projected release date 8/28/12. :) But, yeah, I want it yesterday so I'll probably have to order from the UK too. The book does not fit in with SOTW2, which we'll be starting 8/12. :glare: That's new. Woo hoo! Though I don't understand why the other books were released within weeks of the UK date. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chrysalis Academy Posted December 12, 2011 Share Posted December 12, 2011 Oh yeah! The incubi & succubi. I totally forgot about that part, lol. There is also a mention alien abuductees who claim they've had anal probes, so beware the need to do an impromptu physiology lesson as well;). Since I recommended the audiobook, be warned that this stuff is in the chapter on "Are we alone" and the word "sex" is, in fact, spoken twice. A word to the wise. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tammyw Posted December 13, 2011 Share Posted December 13, 2011 Projected release date 8/28/12. :) But, yeah, I want it yesterday so I'll probably have to order from the UK too. The book does not fit in with SOTW2, which we'll be starting 8/12. :glare: Okay, that is annoying. I should just buy it from a UK reseller on amazon. Does it come quite quickly? Is there any negative aspect of doing this? Obviously we have to pay a few dollars for shipping, but I really don't want to wait until late next year. My daughter loves this series. We're still waiting for the Dawkins book from the library, but I told my husband to order the ipad version in the meantime. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nmoira Posted December 13, 2011 Share Posted December 13, 2011 Okay, that is annoying. I should just buy it from a UK reseller on amazon. Does it come quite quickly? Is there any negative aspect of doing this? Obviously we have to pay a few dollars for shipping, but I really don't want to wait until late next year. I've never had a problem. Books usually come in about a week, but it's sometimes as long as three. I wouldn't count on it for Christmas though. I usually stuck with Book Depository or PB something, maybe pbbooks, though due to good experiences with them and not because of bad ones elsewhere. If I'm ordering DVDs as well, sometimes Amazon UK. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stripe Posted December 21, 2011 Share Posted December 21, 2011 Reported spam Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
momto2Cs Posted December 21, 2011 Author Share Posted December 21, 2011 Reported spam ?:confused: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stripe Posted December 21, 2011 Share Posted December 21, 2011 ?:confused: It's been deleted Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MadsandLilysMom Posted December 21, 2011 Share Posted December 21, 2011 Could someone please link the iPad version? I have tried several search terms and I can't find it. Thank you OP, this book sounds like something my oldest would enjoy. She is young, but she adores science. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nmoira Posted December 21, 2011 Share Posted December 21, 2011 Could someone please link the iPad version? I have tried several search terms and I can't find it. Thank you OP, this book sounds like something my oldest would enjoy. She is young, but she adores science. http://itunes.apple.com/us/app/the-magic-of-reality/id461771375?mt=8 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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