WWS is the goal but we need more than WWE now - help!

[abrightmom]

Ds9 is under challenged and not growing in writing! We are slogging thru WWE 2 although WWE3 seems like a better level for him. However, he can't do the summary work yet. I'm doing a lot of WWE 2 orally and trying to give him more challenging dictation on the side. We just don't quite fit a level.

 

Here is the rub:

 

I want to stretch us and learn more about writing. I'd like to teach paragraph writing as he has to do this on a state test after third grade.

 

We are lacking writing across the curriculum as I've not been able to teach content though we plan to add it after Christmas. We will be writing more at that point. I still want to branch out from WWE and try some different approaches.

 

Will Writing Tales give us some more meat? Writing Strands? I've been considering IEW and the SWI but it's a lot of $ up front.

 

Goals:

 

Start WWS in 5th grade or so.

 

Write more now but not for the sake of quantity. We need to learn more about sentence writing and paragraph construction. We want to branch out from WWE.

 

I need to learn more about writing and teaching it.

 

FYI: I think we are dropping R&S in favor of FLL. I know R&S has some composition instruction but the format is so slow for us. FLL seems like a better choice for grammar. We'll see.

[justLisa]

WWW is very open and go and more like public school writing. I have WWW3 and it is too much for DS at this point who is very slow to write, as in the thoughts are there but he cannot write that much. My intention was to use it with WWE2 for a well rounded writing program and somehow cycle them throughout the week or switch off weeks.

 

ETA: I think FLL is actually easier and quicker than GWG. I find that it is just more easier learned when I teach it and we talk about it together. GWG is totally independent, but for some reason DS is just not absorbing as much from it.

[kalanamak]

Any time I get to glitch in WWE, and he needs some time before cranking up to the next level, we write letters to family and do a daily journal of a sentence or two.

[Create Your Ritual]

Last year when ds was 7 he worked in WWE and also Writing Tales. Both dc loved retelling the stories, and it made me realize I liked the idea of the progym. exercises being incorporated into our writing. This year we moved over to CC Fable (Classical Composition) and WWS. Both of them are enjoying the assignments and doing well with the material. I like kalanamak's idea as well about writing letters.

Edited November 19, 2011 by SaDonna

[Beth in SW WA]

WWW works well here. I wrote a bit about it yesterday on this thread.

[EKS]

I have never found a writing program that I like.

 

I recommend that you just have him write about what he is learning. If you need a guide, the Write Source books work well. Have him write a paragraph each day (or each week) about history, science, or literature (or whatever else you're studying).

[abrightmom]

I have never found a writing program that I like.

 

I recommend that you just have him write about what he is learning. If you need a guide, the Write Source books work well. Have him write a paragraph each day (or each week) about history, science, or literature (or whatever else you're studying).

 

This is a very good idea. Do the Write Source books teach me how to teach paragraph writing?? :D I'll take a peek at the website.

 

 

:001_smile::001_smile: Lots of GREAT helps here and wonderful ideas to consider. I ordered Writing Tales and we're going to start there. It looks like fun for my kiddo and fits his style. Thank-you!!

[sagira]

My ds8 is a reluctant writer, but is doing well and not balking with WWE 2. However, I find that he needs some skills in writing a paragraph, and for that reason I'm considering getting Paragraph Book 1 (from Paragraph Book series) for him.

 

I like the idea about writing what he encounters in literature, history, etc. To him, it seems that PLL and WWE, along with Geography and Science, are plenty. However, I beg to differ :tongue_smilie: and will up the ante starting in January.

[PenKase]

I recommend that you just have him write about what he is learning. If you need a guide, the Write Source books work well. Have him write a paragraph each day (or each week) about history, science, or literature (or whatever else you're studying).

 

:iagree: :iagree: :iagree: This is what we've been doing this year and it's working out very well.

[....]

I'm getting ready to buy this: http://www.writeshop.com/store/proddetail.php?prod=0020

 

I also choose grammar programs that have a ton of writing assignments in them.

[abrightmom]

I'm getting ready to buy this: http://www.writeshop.com/store/proddetail.php?prod=0020

 

I also choose grammar programs that have a ton of writing assignments in them.

 

What grammar programs?

 

I have MCT on tap for 4th grade although I may try it sooner than that. I am also interested in some of the more CM options like PLL and ILL. But, I want some more traditional, straightforward grammar as well. Ideally, a blend of FLL, MCT, and PLL/ILL would be lovely. We would end up with some writing in there, esp. with PLL/ILL.

 

ETA: Wordsmith Apprentice looks awesome. My son would LOVE it. He is a creative boy and works harder when he is inspired! What he loves about WWE or something like Writing Tales is the reward of reading a lovely passage from a book. I think the creative component is a key with him (hence, the MCT for him which doesn't appeal to ME at all :) ).

Edited November 20, 2011 by abrightmom

[abrightmom]

My ds8 is a reluctant writer, but is doing well and not balking with WWE 2. However, I find that he needs some skills in writing a paragraph, and for that reason I'm considering getting Paragraph Book 1 (from Paragraph Book series) for him.

 

I like the idea about writing what he encounters in literature, history, etc. To him, it seems that PLL and WWE, along with Geography and Science, are plenty. However, I beg to differ :tongue_smilie: and will up the ante starting in January.

 

I was just looking at the EPS Paragraph Book on the CBD site. Crimson Wife (I think) has recommended it in the past and believes it is approachable for a wider audience than it's suggested for. I'm going to add it to my arsenal. :D

[Beth in SW WA]

I have never found a writing program that I like.

 

I recommend that you just have him write about what he is learning. If you need a guide, the Write Source books work well. Have him write a paragraph each day (or each week) about history, science, or literature (or whatever else you're studying).

 

We have Writers Inc (dd used it for her Potters School English class last year) but it doesn't give daily incremental teaching/practice. It is a nice supplement and I refer to it often in teaching my youngers.

 

A step-by-step paragraph-writng program works well for certain learners. My dd8 is doing a combo of WWW, IEW & daily journaling. The EPS book and the Paragraph Writing Made Easy also crossed my radar. They get good reviews here from various posters.

 

The new Potters School writing class for 5th grade uses an elementary resource from the Write Source series.

 

I do agree with Kai that assigning a paragraph a day is a great way to start. I just need a bit more structure and guidance.

 

ETA: I find it interesting that so many of us are needing more writing than WWE written narrations. This does not imply that ALL students need more. For many, WWE is plenty. :)

Edited November 21, 2011 by Beth in SW WA
fixed title & link

[justLisa]

 

ETA: I find it interesting that so many of us are needing more writing than WWE written narrations. This does not imply that ALL students need more. For many, WWE is plenty. :)

 

Well, my issue is, and this may sound terrible, I DO want my kids to be on some sort of public school/standard level AT THE LEAST. I mean, DS excels in math or technical subjects, I sense DD will be more creative.

 

I know TWTM suggests in the grammar years kids don't need to be creative. It's just that WWE gets veeeeeery boooooring day after day week after week. I DO think it is important to be able to summarize and give a narration, and dictate. Think lectures, summary reports etc. However, all throughout school and career most people need good writing skills. MY DH is a prime example. He is an architect, but what sets him aside from most top candidates in his field frankly, is his ability to write clear, concise material. I think it is beneficial from an early age to have formal writing, that is very incremental and on level.

 

Beth in SW did you ever use WWW2? I know I remember somewhere you posted you should have started with 2 or something, I'm sorry I don't remember your exact words but I have WWW3 and it requires more writing that DS can handle, on top of everything else. I don't know how to teach writing, or a student to learn it, without a dedicated writing program. I don't know that young students could just read a guide to writing and apply that to whatever they are learning in another subject.

 

WWW and WWE are two completely opposite curriculas, however I feel like together they give the best of both worlds.

 

For those who use both do you cycle by weeks or do everything every week? I am thinking maybe one week focus on WWW, one week WWE and always do grammar.

 

ETA: DS is only 2nd grade, so maybe I should aim to up his writing ability (as in the physical act of writing, he is very slow) and then save WWW for next year.

Edited November 20, 2011 by 425lisamarie

[Beth in SW WA]

Well, my issue is, and this may sound terrible, I DO want my kids to be on some sort of public school/standard level AT THE LEAST. I mean, DS excels in math or technical subjects, I sense DD will be more creative.

 

I know TWTM suggests in the grammar years kids don't need to be creative. It's just that WWE gets veeeeeery boooooring day after day week after week. I DO think it is important to be able to summarize and give a narration, and dictate. Think lectures, summary reports etc. However, all throughout school and career most people need good writing skills. MY DH is a prime example. He is an architect, but what sets him aside from most top candidates in his field frankly, is his ability to write clear, concise material. I think it is beneficial from an early age to have formal writing, that is very incremental and on level.

 

Beth in SW did you ever use WWW2? I know I remember somewhere you posted you should have started with 2 or something, I'm sorry I don't remember your exact words but I have WWW3 and it requires more writing that DS can handle, on top of everything else. I don't know how to teach writing, or a student to learn it, without a dedicated writing program. I don't know that young students could just read a guide to writing and apply that to whatever they are learning in another subject.

 

WWW and WWE are two completely opposite curriculas, however I feel like together they give the best of both worlds.

 

For those who use both do you cycle by weeks or do everything every week? I am thinking maybe one week focus on WWW, one week WWE and always do grammar.

 

ETA: DS is only 2nd grade, so maybe I should aim to up his writing ability (as in the physical act of writing, he is very slow) and then save WWW for next year.

 

Heading to church now. I'll edit this later today. I've got lots to say. For now, look at the thread that I linked above. :)

[serendipitous journey]

I'm getting ready to buy this: http://www.writeshop.com/store/proddetail.php?prod=0020

 

I also choose grammar programs that have a ton of writing assignments in them.

Starrbuck, could you list some of the grammar programs you're using? :bigear:

[abrightmom]

Heading to church now. I'll edit this later today. I've got lots to say. For now, look at the thread that I linked above. :)

 

Beth,

 

I am interested in hearing more as well. I like your eclectic approach and it seems to be what some children need. I prefer it as it is stretching my knowledge base and growing me as a teaching Mom. :001_smile:

 

I searched for Write Source and really don't know where to start. I can't tell what it is exactly. :001_huh: If you have any pointers as to a good guide to start with I'd appreciate it. Perhaps I was not at the right website.

 

Are you relying on WWW to give you that guided, daily, incremental practice you are looking for?

 

What need is IEW filling for you?

[serendipitous journey]

... I had a problem with it but I think this works ...

[Beth in SW WA]

... I had a problem with it but I think this works ...

 

Thanks, Ana.

 

I'll try and answer the questions from earlier today....

 

We use bits & pieces of various grammar/writing programs. Dd8 has done WWE 1, 2, 3. She has done IEW through Unit IV (paragraph writing) because we LOVE Andrew Pudewa. My dds think his videos are the greatest. I use WWW because I want a curriculum that is aligned with our state standards. I want my dds doing at or above what their public school peers are doing. WWE is ideal for dd7 (she is finishing up WWE2) and we are trying WWW3 very slowly. She'll do more next year along w/ WWE3. Dd8 loves to write so doing multiple programs is not a chore. WWW 3 & 4 have just what I wanted (workbook, open & go, incremental, review, interesting).

 

I hope to add WWS in 5th grade or so. We are in CC and dd8 will take Essentials next year which includes IEW as part of the curriculum. We would never just do one program so that won't be an issue. My tentative plan is for dd8 to take Potters School Writers Workshop online in 6th grade.

 

I have Writers Inc for reference. This is the book dd14 used in her Potters School English 2 class last year in 8th.

 

HTH! :)

[justLisa]

Beth this helps!

 

I think I am just always feeling like "I'm running out of time," LOL. I had to remind myself HE'S 7! I have WWW3, and GWG3. I actually think we get more out of grammar we do together so this may help me more with writing, since FLL does not require much writing and seems to be working for us. I just checked it out from the library and plan to use it for the rest of the year. Many grammar program seem to have kind of the same scope and sequence, but since I want to teach the writing process as in proper form etc, I need to save our writing for well, writing if that makes sense. DS is a slow writer but it is getting better. The thoughts and narrations he has are excellent. We are working out some pencil death grip matters and I think WWW will slowly up his writing ability since it is alot of copying in various ways.

 

I am really thankful to have so many people share ideas and there are so many options.

 

I think next year, I may find some way to just use WWW, and spend more time planning for narrations in other areas. We cannot keep up with doing WWE AND narrating for everything else. WHat I mean is applying the same style to science and history but not actually using the WWE book.

Edited November 21, 2011 by 425lisamarie

[Beth in SW WA]

 

Beth in SW did you ever use WWW2? I know I remember somewhere you posted you should have started with 2 or something

 

Yes, that was me. I should have bought WWW2 for dd7. She is taking WWW3 slowly which is fine while we're finishing up WWE2.

 

I would suggest you stick w/ WWE through the series. My dds love it and so do I. We just need to expand our horizons a bit. I've said before that I would poke my eyes out if we ONLY did narrations/dictations. I need variety. :)

[abrightmom]

Beth,

 

Thank-you for sharing more about your writing approach and for the Writers Inc. link.

 

With IEW do you use the SWI or something else? I think SWI would be fun because Mr. Pudewa is teaching. My boys would dig that. :001_smile:

 

What kind of schedule do you run for your girls and the multiple writing programs? Do you do every program daily, is one program the main one with others interspersed, or...?

 

What a blessing to have a kiddo who loves to write :D.

[....]

Starrbuck, could you list some of the grammar programs you're using? :bigear:

 

Sorry it took so long to reply! Crazy weekend!

 

We use (at different grade levels) Primary Language Lessons (late 2nd grade), Intermediate Language Lessons (4th grade), MCT LA (which has no writing in there, IMO) and my son does Galore Park English.

 

I always try not to have more than 2 programs going at once.

 

Intermediate Language Lessons is excellent, IMO. There is a ton of writing assignments in there. There's outlining, finding the main idea of a paragraph, writing letters, etc. I give ILL a gigantic :thumbup1:. I actually found gaps in my daughter's writing by flipping thru that book.

 

Primary Language Lessons is similar, but much easier. It's meant for 2nd and 3rd grade. There are writing assignments in there, too.

 

I have my son work thru Galore Park English so he gets a taste of what the ps kids do. He reads a passage/article and then answers comprehension questions about the reading. There is a grammar lesson that ties in with the reading and there are creative writing assignments to go with it. My son actually loves this program and he likes the writing assignments. It's not classical, by any means. But, I suspect this program was written for boys. :tongue_smilie:

 

We don't use it...but Rod and Staff is another grammar program that has writing assignments in it.

 

In addition to our grammar, we also use writing programs. 1st grade thru 3rd grade, they use Writing with Ease. After 4th grade, they use Classical Composition. I'm going to add that Wordsmith Apprentice (because it looks like fun).

[abrightmom]

Sorry it took so long to reply! Crazy weekend!

 

We use (at different grade levels) Primary Language Lessons (late 2nd grade), Intermediate Language Lessons (4th grade), MCT LA (which has no writing in there, IMO) and my son does Galore Park English.

 

I always try not to have more than 2 programs going at once.

 

Intermediate Language Lessons is excellent, IMO. There is a ton of writing assignments in there. There's outlining, finding the main idea of a paragraph, writing letters, etc. I give ILL a gigantic :thumbup1:. I actually found gaps in my daughter's writing by flipping thru that book.

 

Primary Language Lessons is similar, but much easier. It's meant for 2nd and 3rd grade. There are writing assignments in there, too.

 

I have my son work thru Galore Park English so he gets a taste of what the ps kids do. He reads a passage/article and then answers comprehension questions about the reading. There is a grammar lesson that ties in with the reading and there are creative writing assignments to go with it. My son actually loves this program and he likes the writing assignments. It's not classical, by any means. But, I suspect this program was written for boys. :tongue_smilie:

 

We don't use it...but Rod and Staff is another grammar program that has writing assignments in it.

 

In addition to our grammar, we also use writing programs. 1st grade thru 3rd grade, they use Writing with Ease. After 4th grade, they use Classical Composition. I'm going to add that Wordsmith Apprentice (because it looks like fun).

 

Thanks for this!

 

What version of PLL and ILL do you use? Workbooks or hardbacks? A teacher guide or do you understand how to guide the lessons, esp. in ILL?

 

Are you using CC alongside MCT then? Do you use all components of MCT?

 

Is diagramming on your radar? I am afraid to not do it :D.

 

Galore Park looks wonderful and I agree that it is well suited for boys. I know my sons would love it. Is there a teacher guide or is it easy to teach? I saw an answer key but can't tell if it's a teacher guide as well.

 

So is the boy in your house using GPE, PLL, and WWE? Will GPE be used in lieu of MCT for him?

 

Rod and Staff is a poor fit here and we need more color and life in our grammar and writing!

[Beth in SW WA]

Beth,

 

Thank-you for sharing more about your writing approach and for the Writers Inc. link.

 

With IEW do you use the SWI or something else? I think SWI would be fun because Mr. Pudewa is teaching. My boys would dig that. :001_smile:

Yes, we have IEW SWI-A. Love it!

 

What kind of schedule do you run for your girls and the multiple writing programs? Do you do every program daily, is one program the main one with others interspersed, or...?

 

Dd8 does WWW 3 or 4 daily, IEW videos weekly, written narrations/dictations a la WWE weekly, Paragraph Town reading weekly, daily journal. No copywork these days. In grammar, dd8 does GWG 5 daily, Grammar Town reading only weekly.

Dd7 is doing WWE 2 daily, WWW3 weekly, IEW videos weekly, GWG3 daily.

 

What a blessing to have a kiddo who loves to write :D.

 

I would love to see dd8 write 3 strong paragraphs by June -- then we will add Kilgallon books if she's ready. We took a break from Kilgallon to focus on paragraphs. :)

[....]

Thanks for this!

 

What version of PLL and ILL do you use? Workbooks or hardbacks? A teacher guide or do you understand how to guide the lessons, esp. in ILL?

 

Are you using CC alongside MCT then? Do you use all components of MCT?

 

Is diagramming on your radar? I am afraid to not do it :D.

 

Galore Park looks wonderful and I agree that it is well suited for boys. I know my sons would love it. Is there a teacher guide or is it easy to teach? I saw an answer key but can't tell if it's a teacher guide as well.

 

So is the boy in your house using GPE, PLL, and WWE? Will GPE be used in lieu of MCT for him?

 

Rod and Staff is a poor fit here and we need more color and life in our grammar and writing!

 

Sorry it's taking me so long to reply.

 

For PLL and ILL, I bought the hardcover versions that are sold on Amazon. I think there is a free online version out there somewhere, but I have no idea where it is. It was a good buy for me...I'm teaching 4 kids and the books are non-consumable.

 

I did not buy the teacher's guides (in fact, I'm not sure if there is one). I haven't needed it.

 

The kid who's using MCT + CC...she really likes both. She finished the MCT level for the year. Yes, she uses all the components of MCT.

 

Diagramming? We were doing diagramming last year and I stopped. I might just buy a workbook on it and they can do a crash course later.

 

The dude who uses GPE + WWE3 + PLL... He finished PLL, but he's still chugging thru the other two. I might use the vocab and poetry books from MCT LA with him, but I suspect the grammar will be overwhelming. I might be wrong. I'll see how he is next year. He really likes GPE. I'm going to buy the next level for him. The GP books actually don't take long to get through. It's November and he's about halfway thru it already.

[abrightmom]

Sorry it's taking me so long to reply.

 

For PLL and ILL, I bought the hardcover versions that are sold on Amazon. I think there is a free online version out there somewhere, but I have no idea where it is. It was a good buy for me...I'm teaching 4 kids and the books are non-consumable.

 

I did not buy the teacher's guides (in fact, I'm not sure if there is one). I haven't needed it.

 

The kid who's using MCT + CC...she really likes both. She finished the MCT level for the year. Yes, she uses all the components of MCT.

 

Diagramming? We were doing diagramming last year and I stopped. I might just buy a workbook on it and they can do a crash course later.

 

The dude who uses GPE + WWE3 + PLL... He finished PLL, but he's still chugging thru the other two. I might use the vocab and poetry books from MCT LA with him, but I suspect the grammar will be overwhelming. I might be wrong. I'll see how he is next year. He really likes GPE. I'm going to buy the next level for him. The GP books actually don't take long to get through. It's November and he's about halfway thru it already.

 

The ILL teacher's guide is here. It doesn't sound necessary but I would wonder how to teach certain lessons. I do like the more natural, varied approach in PLL and ILL.

 

Ack! I'm running in circles trying to find our NICHE :lol:. I want closure!

[Critterfixer]

If one wants to add in some more grammar and composition work in addition to WWE, I'd encourage them to search through the wealth of vintage composition texts.

One that I really like but haven't used yet (my boys are too young) that seems to have more of a creative focus is Foundation Lessons in English, first and second books by Oscar Isreal Woodley. The second book gets into paragraph writing fairly quickly. I found these books as free books on Google books.

It has been a pleasant surprise to find so many good elementary compositions texts out there.

For higher level study I also like English Studies in Interpretation and Composition by the same authors as above.

[abrightmom]

If one wants to add in some more grammar and composition work in addition to WWE, I'd encourage them to search through the wealth of vintage composition texts.

One that I really like but haven't used yet (my boys are too young) that seems to have more of a creative focus is Foundation Lessons in English, first and second books by Oscar Isreal Woodley. The second book gets into paragraph writing fairly quickly. I found these books as free books on Google books.

It has been a pleasant surprise to find so many good elementary compositions texts out there.

For higher level study I also like English Studies in Interpretation and Composition by the same authors as above.

GREAT suggestions! Thank-you so much. I will be perusing these tomorrow. I often forget about the vintage texts and they are so lovely.

 

Do you have a suggestion for a vintage English or Composition text(or a combo) for a 7 year old first grader who wants to write more? :001_smile:

[Critterfixer]

You'll have to look. I'm often having to tone down the amount of writing for my second grade boys, so it's hard for me to say what an advanced first grader would do.

I really like the Foundations Lessons by O.I.Woodley. They just have a more creative flair about them than many combination grammar/comp texts. You might also look at Language Lessons by John Benjamin Wisely and Sarah Griswold for a younger student.

Many of the composition books are geared for fourth-fifth grade work, but there is no reason that you could not adapt to work for a younger student.

 

While it is not creative writing, I will say that my two boys are enjoying Wheeler's Elementary Spelling for both spelling and copywork. I have to back off on some of the writing for them. But it's not creative work. He also has a book called Graded Studies in Great Authors which is fabulous.

 

Sheldon's Primary Language Lessons looks good for that age (7-8). There is a good bit of composition work in it.

Edited November 22, 2011 by Critterfixer

[nansk]

I also like Sheldon's Primary Language Lessons (although I bought Serl's PLL for dd's second grade to avoid printing the Sheldon's book).

 

Serl's ILL is available here.

[Bloggermom]

I highly recommend the IEW SWI-A. It does cost a bit upfront, but it made my son grow in leaps and bounds in a matter of weeks.

[julikins]

Sorry it's taking me so long to reply.

 

For PLL and ILL, I bought the hardcover versions that are sold on Amazon. I think there is a free online version out there somewhere, but I have no idea where it is. It was a good buy for me...I'm teaching 4 kids and the books are non-consumable.

 

I did not buy the teacher's guides (in fact, I'm not sure if there is one). I haven't needed it.

 

The kid who's using MCT + CC...she really likes both. She finished the MCT level for the year. Yes, she uses all the components of MCT.

 

Diagramming? We were doing diagramming last year and I stopped. I might just buy a workbook on it and they can do a crash course later.

 

The dude who uses GPE + WWE3 + PLL... He finished PLL, but he's still chugging thru the other two. I might use the vocab and poetry books from MCT LA with him, but I suspect the grammar will be overwhelming. I might be wrong. I'll see how he is next year. He really likes GPE. I'm going to buy the next level for him. The GP books actually don't take long to get through. It's November and he's about halfway thru it already.

 

Hi, I know I'm resurrecting an old thread but have been very interested in hearing more about your choices for LA programs for your kiddos. First of all, I'd like to ask what ages/grade levels your kiddos are, the one using MCT + CC and the one using GPE + WWE3+PLL? You've had experience with ILL, too? I was wondering if using MCT, probably Town level, with ILL would be too much, are they compatible levels or would it be redundant?

 

We will be finishing R&S 3 this year and my daughter is bored out of her mind with it, and she's having a hard time assimilating the information. We have to put all the terminology (parts of speech and usage) on flashcards and go over and over it. It's been hard for us to make this program work even though I know it is such a solid program. But she thinks it's so boring!!! The only writing instruction she has had is from R&S this year. She has never done WWE or any other writing program.

 

So could she jump into ILL or would it be beneficial to back up with PLL for a little while before we jump in? Or should we do MCT with a different writing program? I need step by step writing instruction since I'm not at all sure how to go about teaching it.