Catherine Posted November 18, 2011 Share Posted November 18, 2011 There's some back story here I'll try to summarize-my neighbor across the alley has an 8 yo ds that is part of the crowd of little boys that play outside. My ds plays with them sometimes, and most of them are nice little boys-but this one is not. 3 weeks ago ds was in another boy's yard playing dodgeball (hate it, but that's another post). After the game was over, mean boy threw a ball at ds's head at close range, hitting him hard. The boys were gathered to discuss what to play next. Ds went at him, fists flying, and in the fray, mean boy bit my son's calf deep and hard. Three weeks later, the mark is still visible. Skin was broken, but luckily it did not get infected. I called the next morning to speak to the Mom. She claimed (falsely) that mean boy had bruises around his neck where ds grabbed him. Ds tried to pull him off with whole arm when he was biting, but did not use his hands. I asked her to see the marks, and she refused. She interrupted me to say she knew all about it, and then hung up on me. We live in very close proximity. Ds cannot escape some encounters with this boy. But he can be very provocative. I don't want my son to fight. But I'm not willing, or even able, to prevent him from fighting back if he's physically attacked. I don't want to spend hours outside supervising their play. He's 10, he's not a baby, and I simply don't have time. How would you handle this? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rwjx2khsmj Posted November 18, 2011 Share Posted November 18, 2011 I'd tell my son to control his temper and if he can't control his own behavior when the other boy is around, he needs to leave. If it happens again, I'd tell me son that he must leave as soon as other boy joins the group. If son can't follow that direction, I'd keep him inside. You and your son can't control the other child's behavior. You can only control your own responses. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Harriet Vane Posted November 18, 2011 Share Posted November 18, 2011 I would find a way to supervise. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bbkaren Posted November 18, 2011 Share Posted November 18, 2011 (edited) Seems to me like he was defending himself from a kid who was bullying him. Maybe a conversation with all the parents and both kids with the objective of, "Hey, if you guys don't like each other, don't play together; we don't want someone getting hurt." But I think the parents would all have to present a unified front; if that's not possible then all bets are off. I'm a little less worried than some, about my kid getting into a fight where he's been provoked. If he were bullying some other child then we'd have a serious talk... eta: Just saw the age difference - without knowing the real dynamic between the two, can't really say how I'd handle it. Edited November 18, 2011 by bbkaren Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mama2Many4 Posted November 18, 2011 Share Posted November 18, 2011 Fighting is not a way to deal with people you dislike. The sooner he learns that lesson about life, the better. I agree that he should either leave the group if this boy shows up, or you supervise. I realize you say you don't have time, but what if he got stabbed by this boy or something. You would be wishing you were there then. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ktgrok Posted November 18, 2011 Share Posted November 18, 2011 Sorry, but if the boy did that to him he needed to come tell you, or walk away. Especially given the boy is younger and probably smaller than him. I've had this talk with mys on many times. Just because the other person did something wrong doesn't mean you can do it too. Defending yourself because someone is attacking you is one thing, but that isn't what happened. He wasnt' defending himself, he was retaliating. Not allowed. I'd sympathize with him, but role play what he needs to do differently next time. Acknowledge that it doesnt' seem fair, that the kid is being a jerk, but make it clear that retaliation is NOT ok. It helps with my son to give him real world examples....if an adult gets his window broken by someone he isn't allowed to go break the other person's window. He has to call the police. That kind of thing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lily_Grace Posted November 18, 2011 Share Posted November 18, 2011 What are your son's suggestions on how to handle it? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
simka2 Posted November 18, 2011 Share Posted November 18, 2011 Well if my son was 10 and he went after an 8 yr old we would have serious issues. Because of the age difference there is no way i would not surpervise. If i cannot supervise for awhile ( until i have restored faith in ds's ability to control his temper) then he does not go outside. I am also not above addressing the whole group on what to do if a fight develops and setting my house up as a safe zone. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dayle in Guatemala Posted November 18, 2011 Share Posted November 18, 2011 I agree with Strider. Telling him that he can't play with the other boys when the 8yo is around isn't fair to your ds. I would find a way to supervise. Make your house/yard more of the hangout if possible for your ds's friends so you can better supervise what is happening. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wyndie Posted November 18, 2011 Share Posted November 18, 2011 This happened in our neighborhood between a couple of little boys (9 & 10 year old). The moms told the boys they could not play with each other - ever. If they are out playing with a group of kids and other boy comes to play, they have to leave. This puts all the other children in the neighborhood in a quandary b/c now they have to choose favorites. There is only one common area here so the choices of where to play are limited b/c yards are pretty small. The boys tried to drag me into their reconciliation one day (they were really tired of not being able to play with the whole neighborhood of kids) but I told them to take it to their moms. It was not reconciled and they STILL can't play near each other. While it's sad that all the kids have to choose not to play with one or the other, it does keep the two boys from fighting. It's the best solution in a time when their moms cannot spend all day outside supervising. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
unsinkable Posted November 18, 2011 Share Posted November 18, 2011 There's some back story here I'll try to summarize-my neighbor across the alley has an 8 yo ds that is part of the crowd of little boys that play outside. My ds plays with them sometimes, and most of them are nice little boys-but this one is not. 3 weeks ago ds was in another boy's yard playing dodgeball (hate it, but that's another post). After the game was over, mean boy threw a ball at ds's head at close range, hitting him hard. The boys were gathered to discuss what to play next. Ds went at him, fists flying, and in the fray, mean boy bit my son's calf deep and hard. Three weeks later, the mark is still visible. Skin was broken, but luckily it did not get infected. I called the next morning to speak to the Mom. She claimed (falsely) that mean boy had bruises around his neck where ds grabbed him. Ds tried to pull him off with whole arm when he was biting, but did not use his hands. I asked her to see the marks, and she refused. She interrupted me to say she knew all about it, and then hung up on me. We live in very close proximity. Ds cannot escape some encounters with this boy. But he can be very provocative. I don't want my son to fight. But I'm not willing, or even able, to prevent him from fighting back if he's physically attacked. I don't want to spend hours outside supervising their play. He's 10, he's not a baby, and I simply don't have time. How would you handle this? Umm...yeah. Can't picture this. How do you pull off with whole arm, not using hands? Anyyyywayyyy...you pretty much said how're you're going to handle it. your son is allowed to fight back, he's not a baby and you don't want to supervise. sounds like you've made your decision. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mamakimberly Posted November 18, 2011 Share Posted November 18, 2011 I'm not saying your son *isn't* being bullied by this other kid. But from the other mom's perspective, your son is older and probably physically larger than the other kid. He may be perceived as equally a bully. And if the other kid bit because your son was going at him with fists flying, and his mom has the same "fight back" attitude you have, then he was acting in self-defense. It all goes back to who did what first. And with kids, you really can't trust their judgment of what happened- you have to be there to physically see it with your eyes. I do think teaching kids to fight back is a risky precedent and can lead to your kid being a bully- even if that isn't your intent. I also think "bully" is the buzzword of the decade and sometimes kids just need to learn how to get along with kids they don't like- it is part of life. Unless someone is threatening your life in a real and tangible way, you don't always need to fight back. YMMV. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MindyD Posted November 18, 2011 Share Posted November 18, 2011 Gently...It sounds like your son has a lot more guilt in this than he's letting on. He's older, and he did retaliate. I'd talk to him about how to handle something like this peacefully, and drill into him that if he feels he can't avoid a physical altercation, he needs to go home. Personally, I'd call the other mom and apologize for my son's involvement. Whether or not she reciprocates is her choice. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NanceXToo Posted November 18, 2011 Share Posted November 18, 2011 In this situation your son doesn't come off sounding like the good guy. You're describing a group of boys playing dodgeball and a boy two years younger hitting your son with one. We don't know if he was just playing around, or what. Your son reacted by trying to beat the heck out of the kid. Who, again, was two years younger. And who hit him with a dodge ball which might not have been appropriate but which I would not consider an attack your son needed to "defend" himself against. I really don't know how you can say that your son used his arms but not his hands or that the other mother's claims were "false." I'm not saying that the other boy wasn't in the wrong at all but you definitely have to take a hard look at your son's part in this and at how he responds to situations that make him angry. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Heather in Neverland Posted November 18, 2011 Share Posted November 18, 2011 It really depends. How big is this other boy? Did he throw the ball intentionally trying to hit your son with it after the game was over? We teach our boys not to look for a fight but to be ready to defend themselves if necessary. So that is the question... Was it necessary? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mytwomonkeys Posted November 18, 2011 Share Posted November 18, 2011 what is your son's temper normally? does he struggle with anger? does he lack self control normally? all of that is important to know in order to understand what should happen next. i don't blame your son or the younger child. honestly, it just sounds like two boys had an argument and handled it wrong. as the parents, you should both work together to focus on prevention. i would probably start with having the two boys apologize to one another. in the future, i agree that supervision is a good idea. my own son can be agressive if he rough houses -- it starts off with play and can escalate to someone getting hurt emotionally or physically (not that your son was rough housing), so for my son, we know it's a trigger & i discourage that kind of play all together. it has helped a lot & his temper is in check by steering clear of it. in looking at prevention, i would focus on triggers for your son and help him deal with those when they arise.i'm sorry this happened. it sounds very stressful for you and your son. i hope it gets resolved easily and quickly. :grouphug: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
livingnlearning Posted November 18, 2011 Share Posted November 18, 2011 I agree that using the word "bullying" here is a stretch. These are boys-acting like boys. Bruises, bites, whatever... they fought. It sounds to me like your son over-reacted, maybe he had been getting increasingly annoyed or there is more history here but to be honest, it doesn't change my opinion. He over-reacted and he threw the first punch. He is under your control, the other kid isn't. I'd have a talk with him about controlling his temper and not being the first one to throw down. In real life you get to defend yourself if you're attacked but you're not supposed to start a physical altercation. and no, getting a dodgeball ball thrown at you doesn't count as an attack in my book. The other kid needs a lecture about fighting dirty but that's not your job. :) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
2squared Posted November 18, 2011 Share Posted November 18, 2011 (edited) Have you asked your dh's opinion? I think men have a very different view of boy fighting situations than women. I know I was surprised at my dh's opinion when my ds ran into his first boy fighting issue. I now run these situations by dh since his boy radar looks completely different than mine. Edited November 18, 2011 by 2squared Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pretty in Pink Posted November 18, 2011 Share Posted November 18, 2011 I generally advise my children to avoid bullies but tell them that they are permitted to defend themselves if attacked. That said, it sounds to me like your son was responsible for the original altercation. It's his word against the other boy's as to whether he used his arm or his hands to remove the child from his leg. Using your hands is the natural reaction, not your arm. Your ds is two years older than the boy. Your ds shold not have attacked him. He could have walked away. As for being bitten, I would tell me ds that he shouldn't be surprised that it happened because he went after the kid. The kid was defending himself. That's what happens when you fight -- you get hurt. I'd let that be punishment enough for attacking an 8yo. I would tell him to avoid the child unless he's interested in apologizing and making amends. If that means he has to walk away from his friends sometimes because the other kid comes out to play, so be it. That is a consequence of not being able to control your anger. I wouldn't make him avoid the child indefinitely, but for a few weeks until things have cooled down. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Canadianmumof5 Posted November 18, 2011 Share Posted November 18, 2011 In this situation your son doesn't come off sounding like the good guy. You're describing a group of boys playing dodgeball and a boy two years younger hitting your son with one. We don't know if he was just playing around, or what. Your son reacted by trying to beat the heck out of the kid. Who, again, was two years younger. And who hit him with a dodge ball which might not have been appropriate but which I would not consider an attack your son needed to "defend" himself against. I really don't know how you can say that your son used his arms but not his hands or that the other mother's claims were "false." I'm not saying that the other boy wasn't in the wrong at all but you definitely have to take a hard look at your son's part in this and at how he responds to situations that make him angry. :iagree: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Whereneverever Posted November 18, 2011 Share Posted November 18, 2011 In this situation your son doesn't come off sounding like the good guy. You're describing a group of boys playing dodgeball and a boy two years younger hitting your son with one. We don't know if he was just playing around, or what. Your son reacted by trying to beat the heck out of the kid. Who, again, was two years younger. And who hit him with a dodge ball which might not have been appropriate but which I would not consider an attack your son needed to "defend" himself against. I really don't know how you can say that your son used his arms but not his hands or that the other mother's claims were "false." I'm not saying that the other boy wasn't in the wrong at all but you definitely have to take a hard look at your son's part in this and at how he responds to situations that make him angry. :iagree: I can see how the little boy throwing the ball was provocative, but your DS is much older and escalated the situation. And I would discuss with him that if he gets a reputation for beating up little kids it's going to be him who is treated like a bully, whether that's right or not. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Catherine Posted November 18, 2011 Author Share Posted November 18, 2011 Generally, ds does not have "anger issues." He is rather impulsive, however, and that is the crux of the issue, IMO. He's not the kind of kid who would pick a fight, ever, but he is certainly *very* quick to anger when provoked, verbally or otherwise. My knowledge of what happened is based on the corroboration of the other boys, and he Dad of the household, who saw it from inside. So I know ds did not put his hands around the boy's neck because the Dad told me. The boys are not the same size, but fairly close. Neighbor boy is big for his age and turning nine. Yes, I think what happened was fed by their history and the other boy's verbal baiting, which I did not witness but the other boys described. I know that what I need to do is see it myself. I DO supervise often, so I know the other boy's ways already. He's been forbidden to enter our yard by his Mom, so inviting kids here solves two problems at once! I'm going to need to get the boys to play here more often, and be watching when they are. Generally speaking, we have the yard kids most often want to play in, but I asked parents not to let their kids use the trampoline unless they were watching, so that has decreased considerably. The ball to the head was definitely intentional, at least, according to ds and two other boys who were there. It happened after the game had ended and they were standing around talking about what to do next. But I agree it was not "picking a fight," but constitutes only a very irritating breach of normal behavior. Ds did NOT need to fight to defend himself-he fought because he was really angry. That's one thing that bothers me, and it also bothers me very much that neighbor boy makes it hard for the rest of the kids, who don't have any difficulty getting along, to play together and enjoy themselves. My mind is not made up, I'm asking for advice. I'm just lamenting the need to still do "outdoor duty" for a 10 yo. It's not like I don't already have plenty of stuff to fill up my day. I'm also seeing what will happen with this Mom when I send her offending child home (I've done this more than once in the past). She'll arrive and accuse me of being unfair to her kid. Argh. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Denisemomof4 Posted November 18, 2011 Share Posted November 18, 2011 personally? I don't care that your son is 10 and the other kid is 8. I think it's good that he stuck up for himself. Maybe this kid will learn to leave him alone. That said, I think I'd find a way to supervise. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Coffeetime Posted November 18, 2011 Share Posted November 18, 2011 Defending yourself because someone is attacking you is one thing, but that isn't what happened. He wasnt' defending himself, he was retaliating. Not allowed. I'd sympathize with him, but role play what he needs to do differently next time. :iagree: I'm sorry, I do sympathize, but I have to say that he wasn't "attacked". Yeah, mean boy wasn't nice and it wasn't ok for him to throw a ball at him- but unfortunately, your son did the attacking when he should have just walked away. I think the conversation I would be having with my son would be along the lines of "we don't always get treated the way we want to be treated- but when mistreated we have to learn to control our responses and not become what we despise". :grouphug: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
foxbridgeacademy Posted November 18, 2011 Share Posted November 18, 2011 Yes, your DS should stay away from other boy, no he shouldn't fight BUT he should be allowed to play with his friends and defend himself if attacked. He could have handled the situation differently but he's only 10 and hindsight is 20/20 as they say. I would discuss other ways to handle mean kid, work on controlling his "fight/flight" first response. In the end though if he is attacked he needs to know how to defend himself and shouldn't feel bad for doing so. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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