University abroad (not in the US)

[Ohdanigirl]

I know some have children who have graduated hs and gone off to Universities abroad. I am very interested in hearing your stories and, if you don't mind, what country.

 

My children are still middle school age, but at least one has expressed an interest in studying outside the U.S. I thought it would be better to educate myself earlier than later.

 

Thanks in advance.

 

Danielle

[Serenade]

I studied abroad one year, at the University of Seville in Spain. I did it through a program at the University of NC at Chapel Hill. It was a wonderful experience, and I still say it was probably the most fun year of my life. Not necessarily the best, but it ranks way up there. I hope I will be able to provide such an opportunity for my children should they so desire.

[Laura Corin]

There are lots of American students at our local university, St Andrews. Most come for a 'year abroad' but some do their whole career here. The Scottish system is closer to the US system than is the one used in England and Wales: it's four years, with more general courses in the first year. The fees for an excellent university in the UK are competitive with those in the US, but you would have to weigh up availability of scholarships.

 

For entry, they seem to recommend AP exams (scores 4 or 5) - transcripts are not valued much in themselves as the UK has a public-exam-based high school system.

 

The golf's good here....

 

Laura

[Joan in GE]

Here is the page - it doesn't exist in English - sorry!

 

http://www.crus.ch/information-programmes/reconnaissance-swiss-enic/admission/admission-en-suisse/pays/etats-unis.html?L=1

 

Basically 4-5 AP's and a well-rounded high school program...with a diploma!

 

ETA - I forgot to say that unlike many American universities, here in Switzerland, the object is to reduce the size of the classes, which they do fairly seriously with high failure rates the first year especially.

 

So you need a good level of French or German, or you could be out after the first semester, maybe even the first quarter...

 

I forgot to say too, that some of the universities have requirements which would not fit so well for homeschoolers .... if you ever end up being really serious about going to Switzerland, you can pm me...

 

I've also put other aspects in a post below - I think I made this sound too easy here...

 

Joan

Edited November 19, 2011 by Joan in Geneva

[J-rap]

My daughter is a full-time student at a private university in Costa Rica. You CAN attend this university for a semester through a U.S. exchange program (often organized through the U.S. university your child is attending). That would be the much simpler route to go! However, my daughter wanted to be in there for the full four years in their regular program, not their exchange program, and she is not part of a university in the U.S.

It was a rather complicated process, which included the following:

 

1) First, contacted the university and explained her intentions.

2) Began their application process (online), but at the same time, got a real person from their offices to be her advocate.

3) In my daughter's case, because she would be taking all of her classes in Spanish, she needed to prove that she was fluent. They had two steps to their fluency test, the first one online.

5) Once the online, written fluency test was taken and passed, she then was required to take the oral test in person. Given the fact that my daughter was already planning a trip to Costa Rica for a month, this gave her the perfect opportunity to take the oral test. (Maybe not all universities would require this in person.)

6) Began the process in the U.S. of gathering the correct credentials to attend a university in another country. First thing, she had to have a copy of her high school transcript and graduation certificate.

7) Then, she had to have those two items verified and signed at the Office of the Secretary of State.

8) Next, she took the above copies (including the verification by the Secretary of State), to an Official Translator. It had to be official; they are certified. This cost us about $200.

9) Set up an appointment at the closest consulate of the country the university is in.

10) In the meantime, she needed to have been at least unofficially accepted at the university -- that is, papers that show that she was accepted as long as she can get the necessary government approval and visa.

11) At the appointment, she needed to bring all of the above papers, the most important being the official translation, along with her passport.

12) In our case this took about two weeks. The consulate then returned her passport, with an official stamp in it signifying that she was permitted to begin attending the university there.

13) Finalized the application process with the university, and registered for her classes (online).

13) She needed to be in the country about a week before school began, so that she'd have time to do almost the exact same things all over again, but now at the receiving end. However, it was a lot quicker at this end since she pretty much had everything now. She had to go to the university to show them her official stamp to study there, receive the official acceptance letter from the univeristy, and then go to the Ministry of Education to show them everything. There, she had to get another stamp of approval in her passport.

14) All of this allowed our daughter to begin attending school there, but it did not actually get her the official 4-year student visa. The school is actually doing this for her on her behalf, now that she has "proven" herself a good student. (She has been going to school there for almost a year now.) For the final, long-term student visa, all of her official papers, passport, temporary visas to study there, and this time -- a certified copy of her birth certificate, were required. She hopes to have it soon!

15) She has almost completed her first full year at the school. She absolutely loves it there, she is a hard-working student and has a great rapport with her teachers. They will be her advocate in case she runs into any more glitches, but it should be smooth sailing from here on out.

 

I believe that other schools do not make the process so difficult. This is a private university that -- although it takes a lot of students on semester abroad programs -- is not used to taking students into their full-time Costa Rican program. My daughter is the only non-Costa Rican in that program.

[Ohdanigirl]

Thanks you so much for your replies. Laura and Joan, you are always full of information. I will read through those links.

 

We hs in English, but live in Mexico. Mexico is also a public exam based system. Ds could easily take the exams, if that would also be helpful. I guess I have quite a bit to look into.

 

jjhat7, thanks you for sharing your personal experience in this area. You have given me some good advice. It is nice to see that someone has done this successfully, and that their dc is thriving. Kuddos to you and your daughter.

 

Thanks again.

 

Danielle

[Joan in GE]

moved info to other post

Edited November 19, 2011 by Joan in Geneva

[Laura Corin]

I forgot to say that unlike many American universities, here in Switzerland, the object is to reduce the size of the classes, which they do fairly seriously with high failure rates the first year especially.

 

There were many more students than seats in my classes at the beginning of the year. Many (one third maybe?) dropped out.

 

The UK system is not the same. There are drop outs, of course, but it seems to be about 10%. The entry requirements are strict and universities get fined (by the government, which traditionally provides most of the finance for British nationality students) if they take in more than their quota.

 

Laura

[Krista in LA]

Have you considered a high school exchange program? My dd will be going to Spain next year with the Rotary Club youth exchange. There is a big difference between a high school exchange and studying abroad in college. With a high school exchange, they live with one or more families and attend a local high school. They truly learn the language and culture as they are immersed in it and live like natives of that country live. With a college study abroad program, they go to college in another country, but don't necessarily get the immersion as they might live on their own or with other exchange students. In some places, their classes are in English so they might not even learn the language that well. The high school programs also seem to offer more support. And I know with Rotary, the costs are minimal - we have to pay for her airfare, passport, visa, and some spending money and a few other things, but the sponsoring Rotary club in Spain will also provide her with about $100/month stipend too.

 

Just something else to consider.

[momofCM]

The Katholieke Universiteit in Leuven, Belgium, accepts exchange students. They also provide English courses, starting at the masters levels. I know that if you'd like to attend the bachelor's courses, you will have to take a proficiency exam in Dutch, show a diploma from your country (and maybe even take a test). We have been looking into this for our children, who still have the Belgian citizenship, which makes it easier.

[chiguirre]

In Venezuela, if your school is not accredited by the Ministry of Education, you have to take an equivalency exam to "graduate" high school. Then there are competitive exams to win a place in a university and in your chosen field. The equivalency exam is purposely very difficult to pass to encourage schools to seek accreditation.

 

Mexico may, or may not, have a similar system. Venezuela tends to look to Mexico as a model so my guess is that it's similar.

[Rosie_0801]

We have some American exchange students, but I've never met any who were here for their full degree. Most of our undergrad degrees are three rather than your four years, which might bother some. Plus, we're a long way away :)

 

Rosie

[Joan in GE]

They also provide English courses, starting at the masters levels. I know that if you'd like to attend the bachelor's courses, you will have to take a proficiency exam in Dutch, show a diploma from your country (and maybe even take a test). We have been looking into this for our children, who still have the Belgian citizenship, which makes it easier.

 

Yes, many masters programs have some or all courses in English...

 

For those that don't read French in the link in my post above, you have to take a French exam for undergraduate entry - don't know about the German schools as I can't read German well..

 

And if your program/diploma is inadequate in some way, take an exam BUT they are in the middle of changing all that.

 

And the VERY annoying thing is that it says that these are the requirements for "this" year...so things can change and do keep changing...

 

 

Then there are competitive exams to win a place in a university and in your chosen field.

 

Here if you are Swiss, there is no competition if you have the qualifying diploma/bacc, etc. For foreigners it says there might not be a place in certain programs, but I don't really know how that selection works...

 

Most of our undergrad degrees are three rather than your four years, which might bother some.

 

This is true here too. University is a specialization. You are expected to get your "liberal arts" education in high school.

 

So my ds2 had no French course, very few courses outside his field of engineering eg maybe one outside (eg humanities) course a semester.

 

In the French speaking polytechnique here, for those who can't read French, you can't enter the first year with a high school diploma and AP's. You have to take this year long "pre" course. They require this course even for many other countries' diplomas, frequently if the person did not get a super high grade. So even with an International Bacc, you have to have a grade that most students cannot attain...They are very partial toward their own "Swiss Maturite", but even then, if you did more languages or Latin than the science/math option, you would have to do this entry course...but then with only 3 years for a BS, it is not so bad.

 

Another thing is that the price of the university here is VERY cheap ... about 700/semester (used to be 1/3 cheaper before the exchange rate changed so radically).. but there is a high cost of living.

 

Joan

Edited November 19, 2011 by Joan in Geneva

[Chris in VA]

A df's dd is at St. Andrew's in Scotland. LOVES it. They offered a program (something in the environmental field) that she couldn't find stateside. She's had a fabulous experience. Visiting home isn't bad, because they are retired miltary and can fly Space Available--otherwise, that would be a pretty high added expense. She had gone to boarding school since 16 anyway, so she was used to not being home that much. Great girl.

[Joan in GE]

Something I forgot to tell you about it the completely nervewracking schedule they have for college acceptances that do not let you plan your life well at all...

 

The deadline for applications, here, is the end of April (for the following fall). But they want all the end of high school exams (IB, Bacc, Matu, A-levels, Arbitur, AP's etc) which do not come out til May, June, or even July... to make their final decision...Officially you are supposed to have all the diplomas, etc submitted by mid July. But of course they have to make an exception for the results which still are not published!

 

So then you will get the answer in July or August. And there are some Federal Swiss Matu exams which only happen in August, so for those students, they only know at the end of their Matu, a couple of weeks before university starts, whether or not they will be admitted.

 

What that means is that you are waiting and waiting to see if you've passed the AP's to see if you can possibly be accepted. And if you can't, well July/August is very late to suddenly make alternative plans...

 

I don't know what it is like for other countries in terms of schedules...

 

I do know for the Netherlands that they have some kind of lottery for admissions as well...

 

Joan

Edited November 20, 2011 by Joan in Geneva

[Laura Corin]

What that means is that you are waiting and waiting to see if you've passed the AP's to see if you can possibly be accepted. And if you can't, well July/August is very late to suddenly make alternative plans...

 

I don't know what it is like for other countries in terms of schedules...

 

 

You apply either by October or January of your final year at school for the following September. If you are lucky, you will be given an offer of a place, dependent on achieving certain marks in your exams. Then you take exams (A levels, IB, etc.) and when the results come out (typically in August) you will know if/where you will be going.

 

US students can get around this, however. If they take their AP exams the previous year, or before applying during their final year at school, then they will be accepted or rejected based on existing qualifications; this firm acceptance/refusal is often done earlier in the year, I believe.

 

Laura

[Ohdanigirl]

So I am seeing that lots of other countries require these public exams, like o level etc. Can foreigners take these?

 

I know that here in Mexico, ds can take them. I am actually going to up his Spanish quite a bit, in case we decide to have him take them for middle school. It seems more realistic that he would go to a Spanish speaking country. I know he has expressed an interest in going to Cuba, but who knows what the situation will be once he reaches university level. Maybe, Spain, or an English speaking country. Either way, I would just like to be as informed as possible and prepare him as much as I can. He is my child who is most interested in other culture, countries, etc.

 

I appreciate all the input.

 

Danielle

[Ohdanigirl]

In Venezuela, if your school is not accredited by the Ministry of Education, you have to take an equivalency exam to "graduate" high school. Then there are competitive exams to win a place in a university and in your chosen field. The equivalency exam is purposely very difficult to pass to encourage schools to seek accreditation.

 

Mexico may, or may not, have a similar system. Venezuela tends to look to Mexico as a model so my guess is that it's similar.

 

It is pretty similar here, as well. Isn't all schooling free there? I seem to recall seeing a documentary about it. Hmmn, interesting.

[Laura Corin]

So I am seeing that lots of other countries require these public exams, like o level etc. Can foreigners take these?

 

I wouldn't try to go for O levels, GCSEs or A levels: too complicated if you are unfamiliar with the system and don't have the local support.

 

If you look at the overseas applicants section of any UK university website, you'll find what US exams they will accept.

 

Laura

[Rosie_0801]

Here's the international student info page from my alma mater.

 

http://www.latrobe.edu.au/international

 

Rosie

[Deb in NZ]

The universities here in New Zealand list on the general info page the entry requirements. Students can get into uni here with NCEA (NZ's highschool exams), Cambridge exams, IB, & SATs. It is possible, but more difficult, to get into uni without any of the above qualifications.

 

A bachelor's degree in NZ takes 3 years. If you want a bachelor's with honours degree it is 4 years. International student tuition fees are a bit cheaper than what I've seen charged for American universities. Students study 3-4 "papers" each semester. Each semester is roughly 6 weeks of lecture / 2 weeks study break / 6 more weeks of lecture / 1 week study break + 2 weeks of exams. There is two weeks mid-year break between semesters in July. Semester one is March-June. Semester 2 is mid July-mid Nov. Summer holidays are December-February.

 

From what I've seen students are expected to be ready to tackle university level study & aren't required to take general ed. classes their first year. (i.e composition, PE, etc.) Students who need extra work on general ed. skills can take a year of foundation classes before beginning their degree. Most students who have UE (university entrance) don't need the foundation year. Dd did a foundations course the semester before beginning her degree to prove she was able to handle uni level work. This was instead of NCEA / Cambridge / etc.

[lailasmum]

I saw a report on BBC breakfast news a few weeks ago about lots of UK students attending Universities in the Netherlands so I would imagine they are open to other nationalities. They have courses entirely taught in English and it is much cheaper than here in the UK, plus there are grants available. It was Maastricht university and the University of Groningen that were mentioned.

Edited November 27, 2011 by lailasmum

[Mabelen]

I saw a report on BBC breakfast news a few weeks ago about lots of UK students attending Universities in the Netherlands so I would imagine they are open to other nationalities. They have courses entirely taught in English and it is much cheaper than here in the UK, plus there are grants available. It was Maastricht university and the University of Groningen that were mentioned.

 

I am sure they will be open to other nationalities, but this particular case might be a little different because you are talking about students from a European Union country studying in another European Union country. Americans are not European Union citizens so different requirements may apply. Even though each country has their own educational system, there is a system in place so that true movement of students within the European Union can take place. This is explained at the following link:

 

http://ec.europa.eu/youreurope/citizens/education/university/fees/index_en.htm

[Rosie_0801]

Here's a blurb about student loans for Americans.

 

http://www.latrobe.edu.au/international/fees/finaid

 

Rosie

[EmilyK]

Thanks, even though I'm not the OP, since my middle schooler has been asking about this as well. I think his interest was piqued since both St. Andrews and U of Edinburgh come visit his school which is grades 6 to 12, apparently to recruit applicants. We are in Portland, Oregon, so it seemed a little random, but maybe not if the Scottish system is similar to the American college system. I also thought about it when I heard a recent lecture from an amazing professor from American U in Cairo.

 

Do any of these schools out of the US have a program that would work for a gap year, as opposed to a junior year abroad? This is a kid who I could see benefitting from an organized gap year of some sort. I have some reservations about an "immersion and live with a local family and attend a local high school" program just because I've known several people from here who went abroad (or who came here from another country) who got very depressed and isolated. I don't know anyone who didn't like a junior year abroad type program.

[chiguirre]

It is pretty similar here, as well. Isn't all schooling free there? I seem to recall seeing a documentary about it. Hmmn, interesting.

 

Public schools and universities are free, private ones charge very reasonable fees compared to the US. Venezuela's public universities turn out very competent professionals, but they're not exactly a luxury experience. You're expected to do an internship during your studies, so most medical/dental students end up in places like Amazonas or Delta Amacuro for their work experience. If you do have to stay in Caracas, you'll be working in a public hospital in a slum. Engineering students work in the field too, usually in refineries or construction or oil fields. Graduating in the programmed 5 years is a real achievement and a good bit of luck. Most people take longer, some take much longer.

[Laura Corin]

 

Do any of these schools out of the US have a program that would work for a gap year, as opposed to a junior year abroad? This is a kid who I could see benefitting from an organized gap year of some sort. I have some reservations about an "immersion and live with a local family and attend a local high school" program just because I've known several people from here who went abroad (or who came here from another country) who got very depressed and isolated. I don't know anyone who didn't like a junior year abroad type program.

 

It's classically used for students who do not have traditional qualifications and want to enter a full degree programme, or who need to upgrade qualifications, but it might work as a gap year programme. I suspect the content varies quite a bit from university to university. Here's the page for St Andrews.

 

Most of the students will not be British, however, so the classes won't be an immersion in Scottish culture - they also might be heavily weighted towards language learning, which would not be appropriate in your case. I'd Google 'Foundation course' plus the names of a few British universities to see what they offer.

 

Just so you know, in case you contact British universities: the word 'school' is not much used for tertiary education. The normal word is 'university'. 'College' is usually used for the equivalent of a community college, or for a smaller institution within a large university ('Balliol college, Oxford'). 'School' is sometimes used to mean academic department. For example, St. Andrews has a School of Medicine within the university.

 

Laura

Edited November 28, 2011 by Laura Corin

[EmilyK]

Thanks for the information. I had forgotten all of that nomenclature difference, so I appreciate the reminder on that as well.

[Deb in NZ]

Thanks, even though I'm not the OP, since my middle schooler has been asking about this as well. I think his interest was piqued since both St. Andrews and U of Edinburgh come visit his school which is grades 6 to 12, apparently to recruit applicants. We are in Portland, Oregon, so it seemed a little random, but maybe not if the Scottish system is similar to the American college system. I also thought about it when I heard a recent lecture from an amazing professor from American U in Cairo.

 

Do any of these schools out of the US have a program that would work for a gap year, as opposed to a junior year abroad? This is a kid who I could see benefitting from an organized gap year of some sort. I have some reservations about an "immersion and live with a local family and attend a local high school" program just because I've known several people from here who went abroad (or who came here from another country) who got very depressed and isolated. I don't know anyone who didn't like a junior year abroad type program.

 

I would think that the success between highschool-age year abroad (AFS, etc.) & a junior (university) year abroad experience has more to do with maturity & life experience than it does to do with the program itself. By junior year in university most students have been living away from home for 2 years, so going farther away isn't as stressfull.

 

JMHO,

[EmilyK]

I would think that the success between highschool-age year abroad (AFS, etc.) & a junior (university) year abroad experience has more to do with maturity & life experience than it does to do with the program itself. By junior year in university most students have been living away from home for 2 years, so going farther away isn't as stressfull.

 

JMHO,

 

I think that's a good point, but I have a close relative who took off a year during grad school, and tried an immersion of sorts -- rented a small apartment in Japan, took classes at a university, etc -- and found it a isolating and hard experience. I guess I was thinking a dorm experience with other kids in the same boat, counselors etc might make the transition easier -- all the things that are done for college freshmen. And it might be a way to see if college abroad is really desired. Just thinking at this point -- a lot of it will be up to him when the time comes!

[Deb in NZ]

I think that's a good point, but I have a close relative who took off a year during grad school, and tried an immersion of sorts -- rented a small apartment in Japan, took classes at a university, etc -- and found it a isolating and hard experience. I guess I was thinking a dorm experience with other kids in the same boat, counselors etc might make the transition easier -- all the things that are done for college freshmen. And it might be a way to see if college abroad is really desired. Just thinking at this point -- a lot of it will be up to him when the time comes!

 

"Dorm Experience" in foreign universities are not necessarily like that found in American universities. My dd's uni life is nothing like what I experienced living in the dorms of UVM. I haven't heard of any NZ tertiary school that has the life-style I knew at uni. Even those few students who get places in the dorms, they are only allowed to live there for the first year & many students chose to go flatting as it's much, much cheaper. About half of dd's program was foreign students. Most settled in quite well, but mainly IMHO because they had traveled quite extensively & many had lived / worked away from home already (& they were only 18-20yo). There is no one that has the role of a RA in her school at all.

 

JMHO

[Laura Corin]

"Dorm Experience" in foreign universities are not necessarily like that found in American universities. My dd's uni life is nothing like what I experienced living in the dorms of UVM. I haven't heard of any NZ tertiary school that has the life-style I knew at uni. Even those few students who get places in the dorms, they are only allowed to live there for the first year & many students chose to go flatting as it's much, much cheaper.

 

It's similar here. Many universities only have space for their first year students in halls of residence.

 

Laura

[Ohdanigirl]

Wow, great information. I love how people have chimed in from so many different places.

 

Someone mentioned students who had worked away from home tend to settle in better. Something to think about. Maybe summer jobs away from home, internships, Gap year... That maybe another thread entirely.

 

Thanks so much everyone.

 

Danielle