Daughter did not do well on math evaluation

[thowell]

She had her evaluation today and did not do well on the math test. She is 11 in 6th and we are using Systematic Mathematics. I thought she was doing pretty good but now I am concerned. I have tried so many programs with her since we started 3 years ago and am ready to give up. We started with Abeka and though it was working she hated it. So we switched to TT. She loved it but seemed to have no retention. We tried MM and again very little retention. This year we are doing Systematic Mathematics and again she seems to have little retention. She watches the lesson, we go over it. She completes the worksheet and does pretty good. The next day she has a review sheet and I always have to get her started. Then if I have her review something a week later she seems to have forgotten. She barely passed 5th grade level today and I am at my wits end. She is so bright in every other subject. I have just not found the right program? Any suggestions would be great.

[abbeyej]

For dd, the answer seems to have been to do a *lot* of math, and to layer several programs together, so she's getting constant review and reinforcement from several different directions. My concern is not particularly that she "enjoy" math, but that she *learn* it. Yes, my expectations for math are pretty high (and possibly skewed by having an extremely math-apt first child), but I don't think they're unreasonable.

 

Dd has grown in her math ability by leaps and bounds this year. I don't think it's any *one* thing that we've done, but I think a number of things are working together and I would consider each an essential element of the process. Here's what she's been doing:

 

Timez Attack -- daily, for at least 10-15 minutes. Yes, she had worked on and drilled facts in previous years, but our other methods simply weren't working as well for her. The computer program doesn't judge, it just provides review over and over and over and over and over until she gets it. Quickly. Accurately. It's mostly been fun, though she has cried and been frustrated more than once. Today, after working with it for almost 3 months, she completed the multiplication program. It has helped her other work *tremendously* to have more automaticity with facts. The program is free. I highly recommend it.

 

Horizons -- This is our main program. She does two lessons per day. She does all of the work. Horizons is thorough, spiral... There's a lot of practice and some people complain that it's "too many problems". Obviously I don't think that. I think it's a solid base program. There are certainly others that could fulfill this role as well. But she needs something with a lot of practice and a lot of review. (I also used Horizons, somewhat differently, for my older, math-apt kiddo. It's a solid program and I like it a lot. I've just used different supplements with each kid based on individual needs.)

 

Teaching Textbooks -- We use this a level ahead of Horizons (and a level ahead of her "grade level" in math). It's *easy*. But it has built up her confidence. Since dd was struggling so much with math and experiencing so much frustration, and *easy* math program that makes her feel successful has been a nice addition. It reviews, offers a tiny bit of practice (but not *nearly* enough on its own! I really couldn't imagine using it alone), and is endlessly patient. And she loves seeing the high grades at the end of each lesson and test. One lesson per day.

 

Life of Fred -- She went through the elementary books that were available at the start of the school year... Too "easy", but she *enjoyed* it. It makes her laugh. She likes doing it. And now that she's doing the fractions book, it's more challenging and it's just so different and quirky that it doesn't make her feel like she's doing "even more math". It's helping her understand what her brother and I have been trying to impart all this time -- that math can be playful and fun. I wouldn't use it alone, but it's been a great supplement for us.

 

It sounds like a lot, and it is, but each *feels* so different from the others that that makes it tolerable. Timez Attack is a computer *game*. She feels like she's cheating somehow by getting to play each day (even if it has been frustrating at times). Horizons is a traditional workbook-style math program. Teaching Textbooks is on the computer, though not really a game. Life of Fred is snuggle-on-the-couch kind of work.

 

She spends and hour to an hour and a half or so on math every day. She's significantly faster now than she was at the beginning of the year.

 

And the funny thing? Now that she's gaining *competence*, she doesn't hate it as much as she used to. ;) Yes, she has to spend a *lot* of time on it, and it's still not easy for her. She doesn't love it. But she tolerates it just fine now. Maybe someday the love will come. In the mean time, I'll settle for the tremendous, tremendous progress we've seen this year...

[Haiku]

Four math programs in three years is a lot. Maybe you need to pick one and stick with it for a few years so that she gets the benefit of the long-term progression of the program and not just some snapshots the program.

 

It takes my son a while to catch on to math concepts. Sometimes I just park where we are and have him work on supplemental worksheets from worksheetworks.com. Often I just have him reviewing things we have recently covered with those worksheets as we move along to new things. Constant review is the trick for him.

 

Tara

[thowell]

Thank you for your reply. do you think a spiral program would work better for a child like her? I think utilizing the different programs is a great idea I am just not sure I know how to do this but I am going to start working on it. Any other suggestions are welcome.

[Another Lynn]

I think CLE does a good job of continual review.

[thowell]

Four math programs in three years is a lot. Maybe you need to pick one and stick with it for a few years so that she gets the benefit of the long-term progression of the program and not just some snapshots the program.

 

Thia is along the lines of what I was thinking. I really do not want to switch her program again. However, I do think she needs more review. So do I just continue to add in my own review? She also used all of Abeka 4, and TT5, so she did do the whole year but we saw very little retention with TT5. When I looked at the next levels they were leaving behind concepts that she had not mastered long term yet. Does that make sense?

[thowell]

I think CLE does a good job of continual review.

 

I agree this is what dd8 uses ans she scored off the chart on her testing. When I looked at their placement test it looks as if dd11 would place around level 4. She hasn't had the Algebra they incorporate. Would I really want to set her back that far? How will we ever get to Algebra?

[boscopup]

I agree this is what dd8 uses ans she scored off the chart on her testing. When I looked at their placement test it looks as if dd11 would place around level 4. She hasn't had the Algebra they incorporate. Would I really want to set her back that far? How will we ever get to Algebra?

 

I think it'd be better to get the basics shored up so she can do well when she gets to algebra a little later, rather than letting her move on and have her struggle through algebra "on time".

 

Also, going back to CLE4 doesn't necessarily mean algebra in 10th grade. You could get her confident with math at the level she is at, then gradually speed up. You can do a little math every day, including during the summer. Or you could do two lessons per day - one in the morning, one in the afternoon. There are different ways to do it.

 

It sounds like a spiral program is what she needs, since A Beka worked for her. Perhaps CLE might be more to her liking. A lot of kids like it.

 

And even if she did CLE 4 this year in 6th, that would be CLE 5 in 7th, CLE 6 in 8th, CLE7/prealgebra in 9th, and algebra in 10th. I don't think that's THAT unusual. I'll bet you could work during the summers, at least, and get to algebra in 9th grade though, and that would be perfectly normal.

[RootAnn]

What happens if you hurry through to get to Algebra & then she can't do it because her underlying fundamentals are weak or missing?

 

Have her take the placement test (CLE) in place of "regular math" until you figure out where she belongs. You should be able to skip the first Light Unit completely as it is review of the previous year's material.

 

I'd start her at "double pace" if most of the material is easy. She does the first "new" section of each Lesson & then skips the "review" portion of that lesson & does the entire next Lesson (new & review). If you find a lesson that really has "new" material - or you notice she's missing a concept repeatedly, slow down and go over that material with her every day at the start of math class until she gets it. You should be able to just about cut in half the time for the first 5-6 Light Units this way. Then, just continue on at the pace of one Lesson (Quiz, or Exam) a day. Keep going through the summer.

 

You'll make it to Algebra and she'll have a much better foundation for success.

 

And, IMO, if she "hates" a program, you can tell her she can switch when she gets to Geometry, but until then, she has to stick with it. :tongue_smilie:

[Ellie]

Four math programs in three years is a lot. Maybe you need to pick one and stick with it for a few years so that she gets the benefit of the long-term progression of the program and not just some snapshots the program.

 

It takes my son a while to catch on to math concepts. Sometimes I just park where we are and have him work on supplemental worksheets from worksheetworks.com. Often I just have him reviewing things we have recently covered with those worksheets as we move along to new things. Constant review is the trick for him.

 

Tara

:iagree::iagree::iagree:

[letsplaymath]

She had her evaluation today and did not do well on the math test. She is 11 in 6th and we are using Systematic Mathematics. I thought she was doing pretty good but now I am concerned. I have tried so many programs with her since we started 3 years ago and am ready to give up. We started with Abeka and though it was working she hated it. So we switched to TT. She loved it but seemed to have no retention. We tried MM and again very little retention. This year we are doing Systematic Mathematics and again she seems to have little retention. She watches the lesson, we go over it. She completes the worksheet and does pretty good. The next day she has a review sheet and I always have to get her started. Then if I have her review something a week later she seems to have forgotten. She barely passed 5th grade level today and I am at my wits end. She is so bright in every other subject. I have just not found the right program? Any suggestions would be great.

 

It sounds to me as if you and dd are both discouraged, so that math has become as much about emotional baggage as about number concepts. When students become discouraged, their brains tend to clam up in self-defense -- they go into survival mode, only taking in enough to make it through today, and refusing to care about long-term understanding. Why care about the impossible? It would hurt too much.

 

There is a math program designed especially for children who are in that self-defense mode about math. It won't cost you anything to try it, except the cost of some printer ink and about one month's worth of lesson time. It's a different approach to teaching, and to make it succeed will probably take a bit of mental revamping on your part as well as hers. But if it succeeds, it could make a world of difference for your daughter.

 

Background to help you understand the program

 

External Research that Supports JUMP Math's Approach

The barriers that keep students from learning math, and how JUMP Math is designed to answer each problem.

 

Teachers, students, parents, tutors and other educators describe their experiences using JUMP Math

Videos about the program. The most helpful to me in understanding the program were the videos featuring John Mighton and

. The latter includes encouraging comments from several students, too.

 

Review of JUMP Math at the NY Times

 

What you need to start the program

 

You have to create a free account on the website to download the books. Everyone starts with the Introductory Unit on Fractions, then after your student finishes that unit (which should take about a month), you proceed to their grade-level book. You and your daughter would need the unit for 5&6th grades:

Teacher's Manual for Getting Ready for JUMP Math: Introductory Unit Using Fractions

(read and follow it carefully)

 

Student workbook

 

Answer key for practice test and final test

Edited November 19, 2011 by letsplaymath
add one more link

[thowell]

It sounds to me as if you and dd are both discouraged, so that math has become as much about emotional baggage as about number concepts. When students become discouraged, their brains tend to clam up in self-defense -- they go into survival mode, only taking in enough to make it through today, and refusing to care about long-term understanding. Why care about the impossible? It would hurt too much.

 

There is a math program designed especially for children who are in that self-defense mode about math. It won't cost you anything to try it, except the cost of some printer ink and about one month's worth of lesson time. It's a different approach to teaching, and to make it succeed will probably take a bit of mental revamping on your part as well as hers. But if it succeeds, it could make a world of difference for your daughter.

 

Background to help you understand the program

 

External Research that Supports JUMP Math's Approach

The barriers that keep students from learning math, and how JUMP Math is designed to answer each problem.

 

Teachers, students, parents, tutors and other educators describe their experiences using JUMP Math

Videos about the program. The most helpful to me in understanding the program were the videos featuring John Mighton and

. The latter includes encouraging comments from several students, too.

 

What you need to start the program

 

You have to create a free account on the website to download the books. Everyone starts with the Introductory Unit on Fractions, then after your student finishes that unit (which should take about a month), you proceed to their grade-level book. You and your daughter would need the unit for 5&6th grades:

Teacher's Manual for Getting Ready for JUMP Math: Introductory Unit Using Fractions

(read and follow it carefully)

 

Student workbook

 

Answer key for practice test and final test

 

Thank you, this looks really good. I think I can use this to help strengthen where she is. I have decided to stay with what we have and just slow it down some and shore up what she is weak in.

[Ester Maria]

Four math programs in three years is a lot. Maybe you need to pick one and stick with it for a few years so that she gets the benefit of the long-term progression of the program and not just some snapshots the program.

Ditto. Math is one of those subjects which require a certain continuity for most kids. Maybe you need to choose ONE program and stick with it.

[Homeschooling6]

My ds is using Systematic Math as well and sometimes he needs more review, so I print some pages that I find online for him to stay on that concept a few more days.

 

He is using the fractions books so I use this site http://www.math-drills.com/fractions.shtml and MUS's worksheet generator etc.

 

I also have left over workbooks and such that I can pull pages from.

 

Linda<><

[thowell]

My ds is using Systematic Math as well and sometimes he needs more review, so I print some pages that I find online for him to stay on that concept a few more days.

 

He is using the fractions books so I use this site http://www.math-drills.com/fractions.shtml and MUS's worksheet generator etc.

 

I also have left over workbooks and such that I can pull pages from.

 

Linda<><

 

Thank you this site looks perfect! I love the black line masters. Have you used these?

[Homeschooling6]

Thank you this site looks perfect! I love the black line masters. Have you used these?

 

You're welcome. Yes, I used them this week in fact with ds. We did a review week. He was getting stuck on lesson 22, so I actually took him back to lesson 16 and printed some of the sheets.

[rocketgirl]

what type of 'eval' told you she wasn't doing well? just curious, we started hsling just 2 years ago with a daughter "behind" in math per ps standards. We did the ITBS and she was just a bit behind, we worked very hard, completing 3 Math U See books that year, Beta, Gamma, Delta. That year she still tested a bit behind (but a little closer than the previous year). Advice I have received on this forum has been don't worry, don't change - stick with it, wait it out, and that has been very reassuring. Currently we are on Epsilon - fractions forever, she may not be doing the variety her ps peers are doing, but we'll make sure that with what she is doing, she is getting it... and that we know at the end she will know what she needs to know.

[thowell]

You're welcome. Yes, I used them this week in fact with ds. We did a review week. He was getting stuck on lesson 22, so I actually took him back to lesson 16 and printed some of the sheets.

 

Yep that's about where to struggled. I am going to have her take the final test for the first Module and see how she scores. Whatever area she struggles with (pretty sure it will be fractions) I am going to back up and redo the lessons with her and add in these extra worksheets.