Brigitte Posted November 17, 2011 Share Posted November 17, 2011 For the month that I was sick, no one did any house work. :glare: I just got finished cleaning the kitchen floor, and I have to say that cleaning our horse's stall was less strenuous. Frankly, I am pretty ticked off at my family (mostly dh) right now. But I am also ticked off at myself, since I clearly have not trained my family to pitch in when needed. It is not that dh can't see the messes, because he comments on them all the time. So, tell me how you have trained your family to pitch in on house work? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
myfunnybunch Posted November 17, 2011 Share Posted November 17, 2011 :grouphug: I think for the girls, I'd make a game out of it: Tell them you need some help, set the timer and ask if they can get xyz within that amount of time. Thank them profusely. No idea on the dh. Mine will help if I am sick, but sometimes he needs a nudge to figure out what needs to be done. Cat Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Truscifi Posted November 17, 2011 Share Posted November 17, 2011 For the month that I was sick, no one did any house work. :glare: I just got finished cleaning the kitchen floor, and I have to say that cleaning our horse's stall was less strenuous. Frankly, I am pretty ticked off at my family (mostly dh) right now. But I am also ticked off at myself, since I clearly have not trained my family to pitch in when needed. It is not that dh can't see the messes, because he comments on them all the time. So, tell me how you have trained your family to pitch in on house work? "Honey, please <insert chore here>. Thanks so much for helping out while I am sick. Love you!" Seriously. Dh sees it, and kows how to clean it up, and even voluntarily pitches in when he sees me doing housework while he's home. But if I'm laid up I still have to specifically tell him what needs to be done. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
QuirkyKidAcademy Posted November 17, 2011 Share Posted November 17, 2011 It doesn't get done. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
goldberry Posted November 17, 2011 Share Posted November 17, 2011 "Honey, please <insert chore here>. Thanks so much for helping out while I am sick. Love you!" Seriously. Dh sees it, and kows how to clean it up, and even voluntarily pitches in when he sees me doing housework while he's home. But if I'm laid up I still have to specifically tell him what needs to be done. :iagree::iagree: This is us. I've been married for 25+ years though, and I learned early on that DH will happily do anything for me....that I ASK him very specifically to do. He just doesn't do it on his own. I have reached a place of acceptance.:001_smile: As for DD, she does get a LITTLE bit better about picking up her own things when I'm sick, but that's about it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cassy Posted November 17, 2011 Share Posted November 17, 2011 It doesn't get done. Same here. It 'waits' and accumulates, until I'm recovering. Then I get stuck in, my normally sweet, placid temperament turning quite ugly. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Plucky Posted November 17, 2011 Share Posted November 17, 2011 My kids and dh take over for me. My kids have a weekly list of chores that are to be done so there is no excuse. If my dh is home he will clean as well. If people aren't doing what needs to be done I make more lists and point stuff out. My house doesn't need to be perfect and it isn't, but it shouldn't fall apart just because I am sick. If I am sick for a month then there is really no excuse for my family not to take up the slack. Keep in mind all my kids are older than your two though. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Impish Posted November 17, 2011 Share Posted November 17, 2011 Wolf and Diva do what needs done, with the Littles pitching in as directed. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Remudamom Posted November 17, 2011 Share Posted November 17, 2011 (edited) My girls do, but they are 17 and 18. In fact, they do most of the housework here while I do the cooking. It really pays to train them up. My 17 yr old is very picky about the housework. Most of the time she moves me out of the way. That's cool though, because I like to cook and then I can do outdoor stuff that she doesn't like to take care of. Older dd is in college, so she spends a lot of time studying. When younger dd starts I don't know what I'll do. Stop being so spoiled I guess. As for how did I train them? I would have them help me. Over and over til we were sick of it. We'd have "walk throughs" where we put everything in it's proper spot. I'd set them up, leave something on the floor and if they walked by without picking it up I'd call them back and ask them not to walk by something that needed to be done. The girls are good cleaners, but it just didn't stick on the boys. Edited November 17, 2011 by Remudamom Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grover Posted November 17, 2011 Share Posted November 17, 2011 When I broke my heel a year or so ago I was completely off my feet for 6 weeks, then getting around with difficulty for about that long again. DH kept the laundry ticking over, and the dishes. Everything else, well, he kind of "piled" things. When I could walk again I'd spent time each day hobbling around with my trolley/walker loading it up with piles and putting them away. I think it took me another month or more to return all the piles of stuff to where it should be. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Desert Rat Posted November 17, 2011 Share Posted November 17, 2011 It doesn't get done. Dh will keep up with laundry sometimes and dishes. That's it. I do remember when the kids were little all 3 off us had been sick for over a month. My mom and dad walked into my house during week 4 and just started cleaning. I was so embarassed! But, I was also so thankful. In my dh's defense, he really just doesn't clean like I do. My kids are old enough now that I can set them on tasks. But the heavy cleaning is all me. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChristusG Posted November 17, 2011 Share Posted November 17, 2011 No one. :glare: I just got through with 2 weeks of recovering from childbirth and 1 week of a horrible virus. The house is now a complete wreck. Seriously, it is so overwhelming that I'm having to go room by room, and complete each one before I can even contemplate where to begin on the next. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SailorMom Posted November 17, 2011 Share Posted November 17, 2011 Wait.... Let me get this straight.... Others can do the housework when I'm sick??? :D Yeah - doesn't get done. I have to pitch a fit, and then they'll sweep up and do the dishes, but that's it. DH swears everything looks fine to him :) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
akmommy Posted November 17, 2011 Share Posted November 17, 2011 DH has gotten much better about this in recent years. No, he doesn't clean the way I do, but he will do what needs done, and enlist the kids to help. He just isn't a detail oriented person, but I figure if everyone gets fed, dishes and counters get cleaned, everyone has clothes to wear and were not drowning in clutter or garbage then we can survive for awhile. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Daisy Posted November 17, 2011 Share Posted November 17, 2011 My husband kicks in. He doesn't do everything I would do but he definitely keeps the household running. We always have the kids help out so they are used to doing that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SweetMissMagnolia Posted November 17, 2011 Share Posted November 17, 2011 if it's bad enough where I'm in bed hubby will do some things---but if I"m still able to get around (just a cold/cough/etc) I'm usually stuck unless I ask for help.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Laurie4b Posted November 17, 2011 Share Posted November 17, 2011 No one, unless it gets really bad (ie there is NOTHING to drink out of or eat on) OR if I ask someone specifically to do it. If I ask specifically, any one of the other family members pitches in cheerfully. I'm kinda :001_huh: as to why they can't see it and pitch in cheerfully, however. :lol: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Catherine Posted November 17, 2011 Share Posted November 17, 2011 Nobody. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
foxbridgeacademy Posted November 17, 2011 Share Posted November 17, 2011 I don't know about "training" them to help but we have a rule: If I don't clean it and YOU don't clean it, then NOBODY complains about it. I have this radical idea, DH is just as capable of cleaning as I am. He doesn't like the mess then he can take care of it. When I am to sick to do anything I lay on the couch and call out orders. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
clementine Posted November 17, 2011 Share Posted November 17, 2011 "Honey, please <insert chore here>. Thanks so much for helping out while I am sick. Love you!" Seriously. Dh sees it, and kows how to clean it up, and even voluntarily pitches in when he sees me doing housework while he's home. But if I'm laid up I still have to specifically tell him what needs to be done. :iagree: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brigitte Posted November 17, 2011 Author Share Posted November 17, 2011 My girls do, but they are 17 and 18. In fact, they do most of the housework here while I do the cooking. It really pays to train them up. My 17 yr old is very picky about the housework. Most of the time she moves me out of the way. That's cool though, because I like to cook and then I can do outdoor stuff that she doesn't like to take care of. Older dd is in college, so she spends a lot of time studying. When younger dd starts I don't know what I'll do. Stop being so spoiled I guess. As for how did I train them? I would have them help me. Over and over til we were sick of it. We'd have "walk throughs" where we put everything in it's proper spot. I'd set them up, leave something on the floor and if they walked by without picking it up I'd call them back and ask them not to walk by something that needed to be done. The girls are good cleaners, but it just didn't stick on the boys. Thanks for this. I guess I really need to get them to follow me and help along side of me. One problem I have with keeping things clean is that I never saw my mother clean. I have no idea how our house stayed clean. So, it is a skill I don't have. I guess I need to SHOW the girls how to do it. They pick up when I tell them, but they don't do it on their own. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brigitte Posted November 17, 2011 Author Share Posted November 17, 2011 I don't know if the fact that I am not alone is the good news or the bad. :lol: The problem we have in this particular case is that I was mostly confined to bed. So, I was not able to tell people what to do. I guess the good news is that I am on the mend and can start tackling this grossness. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chepyl Posted November 17, 2011 Share Posted November 17, 2011 I have been sick for 36 hours....my house is a wreck! DH cooked for me....but he did not clean up any of the mess :) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lllll Posted November 17, 2011 Share Posted November 17, 2011 .... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LMD Posted November 17, 2011 Share Posted November 17, 2011 if it's bad enough where I'm in bed hubby will do some things---but if I"m still able to get around (just a cold/cough/etc) I'm usually stuck unless I ask for help.... Yep, this. DH is better than I am with cleaning and keeping house, he just doesn't do it. He's very black and white with his thinking - if he takes time off work to help me (because I'm bed-ridden) then he can switch his mind to 'cleaning is my job'... otherwise... I'm slowly training my children, I made my 6 and 4 y/o clean their rooms yesterday, took over an hour but we got there! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sewingmama Posted November 17, 2011 Share Posted November 17, 2011 Nobody :glare: It sits and waits till I get better no matter how long it takes -even when I'm in hospital no one does anything - DH doesn't even throw out tins he's opened etc :glare: Dh complains if I ask him to make the kids a PB sandwich for dinner so I dare not ask him to pick up a dish. And yes he does see the mess because he complains about it all the time. His idea of helping is to tell me "Don't worry, the mess can wait till you get better" :glare: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
redsquirrel Posted November 17, 2011 Share Posted November 17, 2011 I am not responsible for all the housework when I am not sick. My dh is in charge of the laundry and we both just do whatever needs to be done. My boys help as well, but need to be 'supervised' So, if I am sick things just carry on like they usually do. My partner is quite capable of running a house without me. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Audrey Posted November 17, 2011 Share Posted November 17, 2011 I am not responsible for all the housework when I am not sick. My dh is in charge of the laundry and we both just do whatever needs to be done. My boys help as well, but need to be 'supervised' So, if I am sick things just carry on like they usually do. My partner is quite capable of running a house without me. Similar here. Dh is a grown-up and can take care of the house he lives in just as much as anyone else living in it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hedgehog Posted November 18, 2011 Share Posted November 18, 2011 It doesn't get done. Snap. And it irritates the h3ll out of me that no-one actually thinks, "hmm, maybe we should clean up - and maybe mum won't want to have to deal with the accumulation of all this when she's getting better - " no such luck. Sigh. :rant: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AHASRADA Posted November 18, 2011 Share Posted November 18, 2011 My kids do the regular housework anyway (vacuuming, dusting, cleaning bathrooms) so those would get done, as long as I continued to nag/remind them as I usually do ;). The house might get quite cluttered, and laundry wouldn't be done, or at least not done "right", but we would survive. Ds loves to cook, so he would take over that job. Grocery shopping would be an issue, but while we may not end up with all the staples, ds would at least get what he needs for the meals he's preparing, and dd would likely remind them about the other items. Dh does not typically do much housework, other than occasional dishes, but he is a very empathetic soul, and jumps in with both feet and picks up the slack if I can't do it. Again, I would probably have to give instructions, but he would make sure he and the kids kept things running. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mommyof4ks Posted November 18, 2011 Share Posted November 18, 2011 The dishes and laundry get done, but nothing else gets touched at our house when I am sick. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ewe Mama Posted November 18, 2011 Share Posted November 18, 2011 DH is pretty good about helping with the dc and feeding them, taking them out to play. He might even figure out how to load the dishwasher so half of the dishes get sort of clean (he always blocks the water flow by putting dishes and pans in the wrong places). Beyond that, everything waits until I am back on my feet. I refuse to be sick mainly because it is so much work to get the house cleaned up again. :glare: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LaxMom Posted November 18, 2011 Share Posted November 18, 2011 (edited) I am not responsible for all the housework when I am not sick. My dh is in charge of the laundry and we both just do whatever needs to be done. My boys help as well, but need to be 'supervised' So, if I am sick things just carry on like they usually do. My partner is quite capable of running a house without me. Us, too. My husband ran the house (and me) for 4 months while I was on bed rest when I was pregnant with the boys. We sort of divide things based on who is more interested/finds something more loathsome, so I normally do the laundry (because I like laundry) and he normally takes out the trash (because I'm short and it's hard to carry the bag without it dragging) but either of us do what needs to be done. Eta: if I'm sick, it's likely the house has gone completely to pot, but only because everyone else is, was, or is becoming sick as well. Edited November 18, 2011 by MyCrazyHouse Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brigitte Posted November 18, 2011 Author Share Posted November 18, 2011 Snap. And it irritates the h3ll out of me that no-one actually thinks, "hmm, maybe we should clean up - and maybe mum won't want to have to deal with the accumulation of all this when she's getting better - " no such luck. Sigh. :rant: :iagree: One day I discovered that dirty pots from the last meal I managed to cook were still sitting on stove 1 week later. It never occurred to dh that he might want to wash those. blech. And, yes, I was the one who ended up washing them. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brigitte Posted November 18, 2011 Author Share Posted November 18, 2011 The dishes and laundry get done, but nothing else gets touched at our house when I am sick. I would consider myself lucky if that had happened. :D Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brigitte Posted November 18, 2011 Author Share Posted November 18, 2011 I am not responsible for all the housework when I am not sick. My dh is in charge of the laundry and we both just do whatever needs to be done. My boys help as well, but need to be 'supervised' So, if I am sick things just carry on like they usually do. My partner is quite capable of running a house without me. Similar here. Dh is a grown-up and can take care of the house he lives in just as much as anyone else living in it. Us, too. My husband ran the house (and me) for 4 months while I was on bed rest when I was pregnant with the boys. We sort of divide things based on who is more interested/finds something more loathsome, so I normally do the laundry (because I like laundry) and he normally takes out the trash (because I'm short and it's hard to carry the bag without it dragging) but either of us do what needs to be done. Eta: if I'm sick, it's likely the house has gone completely to pot, but only because everyone else is, was, or is becoming sick as well. So, did your husbands come to the marriage like that or did you have a conversation about how things would run or did your lives together just evolve that way? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LaxMom Posted November 18, 2011 Share Posted November 18, 2011 (edited) My husband... Well, he grew up with, um, staff. I think he learned to do laundry at the firehouse. I know that's where he learned the basics of cooking. The rest just evolved. Not that there haven't been contentious discussions about using one's eyes to look around and actually SEE that something needs to be done, but most things have just fallen into place. We don't have traditional roles, anyway; during the first half of our marriage, I worked full time and traveled a lot, and he worked every third day, so he was just here more often. Now, I work part time, early in the morning, and he works every fourth day, so both of us are here most of the time. Nothing really gets done "magically" while one person is at work, you know? Edited November 18, 2011 by MyCrazyHouse Autocorrect is a cruel joke. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
2squared Posted November 18, 2011 Share Posted November 18, 2011 My husband kicks in. He doesn't do everything I would do but he definitely keeps the household running. We always have the kids help out so they are used to doing that. :iagree: Between working full-time, childcare, and chauffeur duties, he wouldn't have time to do more than laundry, meals, and dishes. He would do those, but he would have to because we don't own enough clothing and towels to not wash every other day or enough dishes to not wash after two meals. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TexasRachel Posted November 18, 2011 Share Posted November 18, 2011 So nice to know my dh isn't the only one incapable of seeing what needs done and then doing it. I always end up doing something when I'm sick. There are no days I can just lay in bed and not do anything. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
YLVD Posted November 18, 2011 Share Posted November 18, 2011 So, did your husbands come to the marriage like that or did you have a conversation about how things would run or did your lives together just evolve that way? I didn't answer earlier but yes, he knew that I would not accept less than 50% from him. He was in the navy for years, he knew how to take care of himself. At this point, he does all the cooking and lots of the cleaning. I wouldn't partner up with someone that didn't or wouldn't. JMO Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
redsquirrel Posted November 18, 2011 Share Posted November 18, 2011 So, did your husbands come to the marriage like that or did you have a conversation about how things would run or did your lives together just evolve that way? We met in our late 20s. We both had our own apts and had been running our own lives for a while. He had a job, did his own laundry, did his own grocery shopping, cooking and sort of cleaned up after himself. He wasn't any worse at it than I was. When we moved in together, we both had paying jobs and lots of professional responsibility. I wasn't any more able to take on all the chores of daily life than he was. He certainly didn't expect it, neither did I. I guess he 'came this way' but I would not have married any other type of person. Managing a house isn't exactly brain surgery. If a guy can't manage basic life management skills then I would not be interested in perusing a relationship. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Audrey Posted November 18, 2011 Share Posted November 18, 2011 So, did your husbands come to the marriage like that or did you have a conversation about how things would run or did your lives together just evolve that way? My dh was already like that. His parents ran the farm together. They both did everything. The only things his father never did in regard to housework, farm chores and parenting was to give birth or breastfeed. He does not have hang ups about what is a man's job and what is a woman's job. They're all everyone's jobs regardless of gender. I was raised with a similar ethic. There was never a need to have a conversation about it. We both just assume that if something needs to be done, you do it. I suppose that, over time, there are certain chores that I prefer to do and he prefers to do, so we tend to let each other do them. Routines seemed to evolve from that, primarily. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lcelmer Posted November 18, 2011 Share Posted November 18, 2011 It doesn't get done. :glare: Same here, I usually am cleaning till the last possible minute, then when I HAVE to crash, it's bad for a few days or so. And as soon as I am a bit better, everyone wants to know why the house isn't clean, or where their clothes are. :sad: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NanceXToo Posted November 18, 2011 Share Posted November 18, 2011 I don't just "expect" things to get done. I ask specific people to do specific things, and they will do it. Much easier than letting the house fall apart and resenting that nobody did anything. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crafty Mathy Mom Posted November 18, 2011 Share Posted November 18, 2011 DH is pretty good about helping with the dc and feeding them, taking them out to play. He might even figure out how to load the dishwasher so half of the dishes get sort of clean (he always blocks the water flow by putting dishes and pans in the wrong places). Beyond that, everything waits until I am back on my feet. I refuse to be sick mainly because it is so much work to get the house cleaned up again. :glare: This is my husband. The excuse for not cleaning is "We didn't want to disturb you by making cleaning noises." All of the routines completely disappear if I am not able to enforce them. My oldest does her own laundry. The last time I was sick, she ran out of socks because I didn't remind her it was her laundry day. She couldn't see how running out of clean clothes was her own fault.:001_huh: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cassy Posted November 18, 2011 Share Posted November 18, 2011 I don't just "expect" things to get done. I ask specific people to do specific things, and they will do it. Much easier than letting the house fall apart and resenting that nobody did anything. That sounds ideal, in theory. In fact, in our home, and I'm sure in many others, both DH and I work flat out all day. When I'm sick DH really doesn't have the time or energy to do everything he already does, and look after sick wife and four children, and clean a large six bedroomed house. Ideally we'd have someone else to fall back on, but I'm an only child with both parents passed away, while DH's parents are in their eighties and live a two hour drive away. When I'm recovering from an illness and have the house to put back to rights I do feel angry and resentful, but not at DH or the kids, just at life in general, at sickness, and lack of support. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NanceXToo Posted November 18, 2011 Share Posted November 18, 2011 That sounds ideal, in theory. In fact, in our home, and I'm sure in many others, both DH and I work flat out all day. When I'm sick DH really doesn't have the time or energy to do everything he already does, and look after sick wife and four children, and clean a large six bedroomed house. Ideally we'd have someone else to fall back on, but I'm an only child with both parents passed away, while DH's parents are in their eighties and live a two hour drive away. When I'm recovering from an illness and have the house to put back to rights I do feel angry and resentful, but not at DH or the kids, just at life in general, at sickness, and lack of support. Well, you have to be reasonable in your expectations, of course. I wouldn't ask my husband to wash the windows, dust the entertainment center, vacuum the bedrooms, clean the tub after a hard day's work. These things can be let go for a while. But if you are really laid up with an illness, it is reasonable to expect that you can ask other members of your household to do the dishes, take out the garbage, do a load of laundry, sweep a kitchen floor, prepare a meal, put some of their own clutter away and so on. 7, 10 and 12 year old kids are all old enough to be expected to help with most of that stuff and I do find that if I say nothing, almost nothing gets done, but if I ask my husband to please do this and my daughter to please do that, they will oblige. I know what you mean, though. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
2squared Posted November 18, 2011 Share Posted November 18, 2011 In fact, in our home, and I'm sure in many others, both DH and I work flat out all day. When I'm sick DH really doesn't have the time or energy to do everything he already does, and look after sick wife and four children, and clean a large six bedroomed house....When I'm recovering from an illness and have the house to put back to rights I do feel angry and resentful, but not at DH or the kids, just at life in general, at sickness, and lack of support. :iagree: I can't imagine expecting dh to be able to carry his load and mine. I guess it hadn't even crossed my mind to expect that he would do anything more than keep things barely running if I was out of commission. I don't know how he would have the time or energy to actually get to cleaning. The guy can cook, and he can manage our house. But, he's out of practice since he doesn't do it daily. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sassenach Posted November 18, 2011 Share Posted November 18, 2011 Most everything gets done, except the laundry. That tends to pile up. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cassy Posted November 18, 2011 Share Posted November 18, 2011 Well, you have to be reasonable in your expectations, of course. I wouldn't ask my husband to wash the windows, dust the entertainment center, vacuum the bedrooms, clean the tub after a hard day's work. These things can be let go for a while. But if you are really laid up with an illness, it is reasonable to expect that you can ask other members of your household to do the dishes, take out the garbage, do a load of laundry, sweep a kitchen floor, prepare a meal, put some of their own clutter away and so on. 7, 10 and 12 year old kids are all old enough to be expected to help with most of that stuff and I do find that if I say nothing, almost nothing gets done, but if I ask my husband to please do this and my daughter to please do that, they will oblige. I know what you mean, though. :lol: Ah, yes, expectations. Shhh, but not even I dust the entertainment centre all that often :leaving:. The 7, 10 and 12 year old kids? Most of the time getting them to even pick up their own clothes can be a full-time job in itself, and of course they don't quite jump to the same when their Daddy asks them to do something as they do when I ask :tongue_smilie:. We muddle through. Best wishes Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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