What is an ADHD eval like with a 6-year-old?

[LittleIzumi]

Do you just go to the ped or a psych or what? What should I look for in a "good" eval?

 

Heeeeeeeelp, lol. (She's already on daily fish oil. It helps some. Not enough.)

[3Blessings]

In my experience, most general pediatricians don't know enough about ADHD for me to go to them FIRST. When my son was diagnosed ADHD, he went to a pediatric neurologist. We live internationally so we did take him to our family doctor to talk with him when we visited the U.S. later that same year.

 

Having said that, I am currently seeking help from a psychologist (from Canada, but living in Jakarta near us). He seems to have hit a rough spot lately and dh and I felt we needed a more thorough assessment (observations, conversations with the psych, etc.).

 

I think it is important to feel that whoever you decide to see is very aware of the child's behavior in ALL places (not just home).

 

Blessings on this process. It was stressful for us for sure.

[wapiti]

You'd need an MD to presribe meds, but I would not trust a ped with that diagnosis. I've known more than one kiddo who was improperly diagnosed by the ped; there are too many other possible diagnoses. Have you already seen a psych for other testing?

[LittleIzumi]

You'd need an MD to presribe meds, but I would not trust a ped with that diagnosis. I've known more than one kiddo who was improperly diagnosed by the ped; there are too many other possible diagnoses. Have you already seen a psych for other testing?

 

Not for dd. Dh has a psych and my other dd has been evaluated by EI. :)

[wapiti]

Not for dd. Dh has a psych and my other dd has been evaluated by EI. :)

 

All right, I'm confusing your dds :). Are we talking about the one currently doing VT? If it's possible to get a full neuropsych eval, I'd do that, but not until after you finish VT. I'd want the whole, big picture before going ahead with meds for adhd. There are too many other things that might look like adhd to not consider everything (e.g., giftedness, auditory processing, etc.).

[LittleIzumi]

All right, I'm confusing your dds :). Are we talking about the one currently doing VT? If it's possible to get a full neuropsych eval, I'd do that, but not until after you finish VT. I'd want the whole, big picture before going ahead with meds for adhd. There are too many other things that might look like adhd to not consider everything (e.g., giftedness, auditory processing, etc.).

 

Yes, this is The Sponge who is still in VT (it's been extended twice :lol:). She is also gifted, and dh has ADHD-Inattentive himself so it's in the genes. She's also VSL. Help, lol. (Although in the Freed/Parsons book it talks about how many kids are gifted/ADD/VSL wrapped up together...)

[wapiti]

Yes, this is The Sponge who is still in VT (it's been extended twice :lol:). She is also gifted, and dh has ADHD-Inattentive himself so it's in the genes. She's also VSL. Help, lol. (Although in the Freed/Parsons book it talks about how many kids are gifted/ADD/VSL wrapped up together...)

 

I think virtually all ADD are VSL - wasn't OhE posting about that recently, or maybe I imagined it. Anyway, I still wouldn't go forward with something as big a deal as meds until you get the bigger picture with testing, IF that's an option for you. If you can't do it, and if it isn't covered, and you're desperate, that's the only situation in which I'd consider not getting more full testing before trying meds. But hey, wouldn't adhd be a medical reason for needing the testing? :) just thinking out loud. Have you also looked at the DSM criteria for ADD? That'll be part of almost any questionnaire from a doc. And you might flip through the ADD chapter in The Mislabeled Child as well.

 

Wasn't she attending a new school or something? How is that going - are they giving you a hard time or anything?

[LittleIzumi]

I think virtually all ADD are VSL - wasn't OhE posting about that recently, or maybe I imagined it. Anyway, I still wouldn't go forward with something as big a deal as meds until you get the bigger picture with testing, IF that's an option for you. If you can't do it, and if it isn't covered, and you're desperate, that's the only situation in which I'd consider not getting more full testing before trying meds. But hey, wouldn't adhd be a medical reason for needing the testing? :) just thinking out loud. Have you also looked at the DSM criteria for ADD? That'll be part of almost any questionnaire from a doc. And you might flip through the ADD chapter in The Mislabeled Child as well.

 

Wasn't she attending a new school or something? How is that going - are they giving you a hard time or anything?

 

I actually have a simplified DSM-IV here, so I'll check that. She didn't last two weeks in charter school :lol: and even her one day a week fine arts school program is giving her some issues ("they want me to SIT DOWN!!") I'll have to see what CHIP covers first, anyway. What the rep told me was very vague.

[Guest]

ADHD was what I originally started researching, but not everything fit. It did serve as a wake up call though and a start for me to research other things. Anyway, you could check your library for Hallowell's books. His first was "Driven to Distraction" but you could look at his more updated book "Delivered From Distraction". Since it is his job (he is a psychiatrist) and he is an adult with ADD, he has many experiences to share in his books on what an ADHD eval would look like :). You should be able to find his book at your library. My library carries some and I am in Canada.

[peacefully]

.

[Guest]

I think virtually all ADD are VSL - wasn't OhE posting about that recently, or maybe I imagined it.

 

The connections are definitely something I am looking into also :). From my limited experience based on my limited research :tongue_smilie:, people on the spectrum tend to be VSL. Temple Grandid who has HFA is a visual thinker and mentions that in her books, but not everyone on the spectrum will be a visual thinker. Which leads me to the questions, is "thinking in pictures" like Temple Grandid describes the same as a VSL or am I just mixing up two different things? I have just started reading Grandin's "Thinking in Pictures" and am hoping to get "Upside-Down Brilliance" in the near future. Perhaps that will shed some light, if someone here doesn't know.

[Guest]

This jumped out at me since I've been reading Upside-Down Brilliance, and Silverman touched on this very issue. I even took notes on this point because I am trying to figure out whether my ds is actually VSL at all, which isn't entirely clear to me. She contends that not all ADHD folks are VSL, but they are nearly all non-sequential. Her distinction is that being visual-spatial is a strength, while being non-sequential may simply refer to a deficit, an inability to be sequential without a corresponding ability to be spatial.

 

In contrast, Freed seems to think that everyone who has ADHD, dyslexia, spectrum disorders, cerebellar issues, or perhaps simply does not fit the traditional educational model is right-brained.:001_huh:

 

All the distinctions are making me a bit dizzy. :confused:

 

Ayiyiyi!!! Now I am dizzy :lol:! It looks like there's no straight answer.

[wapiti]

This jumped out at me since I've been reading Upside-Down Brilliance, and Silverman touched on this very issue. I even took notes on this point because I am trying to figure out whether my ds is actually VSL at all, which isn't entirely clear to me. She contends that not all ADHD folks are VSL, but they are nearly all non-sequential. Her distinction is that being visual-spatial is a strength, while being non-sequential may simply refer to a deficit, an inability to be sequential without a corresponding ability to be spatial.

 

In contrast, Freed seems to think that everyone who has ADHD, dyslexia, spectrum disorders, cerebellar issues, or perhaps simply does not fit the traditional educational model is right-brained.

 

Yes, I think I was recalling what OhE said about Freed. I only vaguely recall Silverman's chapter, but both books are now on my couch waiting to be (re-)read. There were also a couple of articles on the vsl website - let me see if they're still there... ah, here's one

[Guest]

Yes, I think I was recalling what OhE said about Freed. I only vaguely recall Silverman's chapter, but both books are now on my couch waiting to be (re-)read. There were also a couple of articles on the vsl website - let me see if they're still there... ah, here's one

 

Thank you for this wapiti :)!

[Guest]

Would it be a good generalization to say that while there is overlap between these (ADD, ASD, VSL, and any others that I don't know about :tongue_smilie:), there will never be a rule that they will always coexist?

[peacefully]

.

[LittleIzumi]

Do they usually just ask for my observations/answers to the criteria, or do they do anything with the child herself?

[peacefully]

.

[PeterPan]

Ok, I'll bite.

 

One, Canucks did an awesome job of teasing out that difference between the takes of Silverman and Freed. If I could attempt to reconcile them, I'd suggest that some kids who *would* be VSL can't be *fully* VSL because they haven't yet had VT to deal with their vision problems. You resolve the vision problems, and the VSL kicks in. I saw this with dd. Also Silverman is a psych and Freed a tutor, right? Mercy, I'd have to drag out my Freed and see. I just don't remember him as having some astounding background. And Silverman's reputation online is so haphazard (some good but some bizarre or extreme things), that I put a dose of mortal realism (and not absolutism) or her comments either. Reconcile them in the middle and you probably find the truth.

 

Two, my dd isn't that young, but she did the blip test. I don't see why they couldn't do it on a 6 yo, so I'll bet they would. That for me was fascinating, because it's a statistically reasonable thing to do (in my mind) and not *subjective* the way the inventories are. Yes, we did that inventory. Actually we've done it over and over and over... I know we did it for the OT and then again for the psych. One of the authors of it is a psych near us, hehe. I didn't chose him, because he came across like he knew those categories by experience, hehe. I chose somebody nice and calm... ;)

 

Three, I triple Canuck's other extremely wise suggestion to read Hallowell (that I'm misspelling at the moment). I almost didn't read the 2nd of his books because the first was so ho-hum. Definitely keep going. The next one was a real gem.

 

Four, in your shoes, I'd be tempted to try a little bit of practical changes, just to see if you could buy time till you get through with the VT. Find the neuropsych you want to use and make the appointment, but have it be for a couple months after you anticipate the VT ending. I would say my dd changed radically, RADICALLY in the 6 months following VT. I just don't see the point of an eval then, even if you're desperate. I mean sure, go ahead and do it. But for us a lot changed. It was like all the skills came together. And I can say that partly because I know how *differently* I filled out that behavior/ef survey this time as opposed to the first time. Same chart, same body of a child, different level of functionality.

 

Oh, so practical things? Well remind us, she's 6?? I'm all for school work, but the actual expectations of a 6 yo are so small (and the general environmental stuff so easy to accomplish even when they're on the refrigerator), that I'd probably chill that quite a bit and work toward educational play and moments. I'm not saying forever, just with a 6 yo. The world won't end, and you might learn a lot about how she learns best. In reality, what you'll learn then is probably the way she learns best and is going to need to be worked with. There are a lot more ways to work and grow a child than just planted at a desk.

 

Caffeine. Have you tried caffeine on her yet? It puts my dd to sleep, so I haven't managed to find an amount that works. However for some people it seems to work. M&Ms would be easy to dose. :)

 

Movement and exercise. Have you tried increasing it? Radically? Like do you have a trampoline? Run her before you start school? Now I'm remembering back with horror all the times I tried to get my dd (who is low stim and takes a long time to get going in the morning) awake by running her in the morning, hehe. I'm so bad. But if it brings your dd peace, go for it!

 

The Out of Sync Child. I assume you've read this and the sequel (...Has Fun).

 

The boards are a dangerous place in a way (well not the SN obviously, because here we're all gung-ho for modifications and watching your dc, right?), because you get the impression that there's a certain way to do things and that you're not doing it RIGHT if you don't do it that way. And I'm telling you I can see that in hindsight and that I see how, eve when I wanted to, it was very hard to embrace what I was really SEEING.

 

Take that the way I mean it. I'm not saying not to use meds if your situation is disastrous. I'm not saying the eval won't help you immensely (because it will). I'm just saying it's still the same kid and that you can get trapped into thinking you've failed because you can't make your school time look like everyone else's. At least in our house, it's NEVER GOING to look like everybody else's, because she's different.

[PeterPan]

Here, this may be the test dd did with the screen and blips, not sure. http://www.devdis.com/gds.html

 

It says the test does have norms for ages down to 4, so indeed it might be one they'd do with her.

 

Ok, I looked some more, and it doesn't sound exactly the same. The one dd did had blips on a screen, and you had to click when they were in just a certain box, which sounds more similar to what yllek's dh did.

Edited November 17, 2011 by OhElizabeth

[LittleIzumi]

 

Oh, so practical things? Well remind us, she's 6?? I'm all for school work, but the actual expectations of a 6 yo are so small (and the general environmental stuff so easy to accomplish even when they're on the refrigerator), that I'd probably chill that quite a bit and work toward educational play and moments. I'm not saying forever, just with a 6 yo. The world won't end, and you might learn a lot about how she learns best. In reality, what you'll learn then is probably the way she learns best and is going to need to be worked with. There are a lot more ways to work and grow a child than just planted at a desk.

 

She is 6. You do NOT want to see what she gets up to with no direction for several days on end. Heaven help us. :lol: Her brain keeps on spinning and if it has no directions, well, she invents some. Things like getting into the trunk of my car (past purse hung up near the ceiling, deadbolt, previously impenetrable gate latch, figuring out the keys, etc) or running away to the park. Her schoolwork only totals perhaps 2 hours a day, split up with many breaks. I don't think I can go down much more without her going into bored mischief mode.

 

Caffeine. Have you tried caffeine on her yet? It puts my dd to sleep, so I haven't managed to find an amount that works. However for some people it seems to work. M&Ms would be easy to dose. :)

She passed the Red Bull test with flying colors but I can't afford half a Red Bull a day, lol. Dh wanted to try caffeine pills with her but she thinks they're disgusting. Chocolate would certainly be easier but she has a dairy allergy.

 

Movement and exercise. Have you tried increasing it? Radically? Like do you have a trampoline? Run her before you start school? Now I'm remembering back with horror all the times I tried to get my dd (who is low stim and takes a long time to get going in the morning) awake by running her in the morning, hehe. I'm so bad. But if it brings your dd peace, go for it!

 

Ooh, with the cold snap we have been neglecting the pre-school run. I was just thinking today that we needed to get back on that. We do have a mini-tramp (outside) and rings to swing on indoors. She uses the rings a lot. She will have dance in January....

 

The Out of Sync Child. I assume you've read this and the sequel (...Has Fun).

 

Yup, I own both. I've never read it with an eye to this dd, though, just The Drama. Hmmm.

 

The boards are a dangerous place in a way (well not the SN obviously, because here we're all gung-ho for modifications and watching your dc, right?), because you get the impression that there's a certain way to do things and that you're not doing it RIGHT if you don't do it that way. And I'm telling you I can see that in hindsight and that I see how, eve when I wanted to, it was very hard to embrace what I was really SEEING.

 

Take that the way I mean it. I'm not saying not to use meds if your situation is disastrous. I'm not saying the eval won't help you immensely (because it will). I'm just saying it's still the same kid and that you can get trapped into thinking you've failed because you can't make your school time look like everyone else's. At least in our house, it's NEVER GOING to look like everybody else's, because she's different.

Good point. I am getting caught up now in the comparison of the sensory/spirited/crazysauce younger dd being totally capable of sitting down & doing all her K work at once if I wanted her to (or just saying NO and being easily bribed back to task, lol) and then spending two hours with the older trying to do one simple math page (not all at once--2 hours with breaks because focusing on the numbers was a complete epic failure, but the breaks didn't help).

[WeeBeaks]

For us it started with questionnaires and opinions by 3 different pediatricians. We then went the alternative route and DS was seen by a naturopathic doctor (3 hour consultation with followups) and an acupuncturist. Both of those had various recommendations.

 

Our traditional medical route then started probably about 6 years of age. His ped at the time was fairly certain but wanted a psych opinion, which we got. Same Dx. DS also went to a counselor for behavioral therapy, with a separate eval. When we changed pyschs, the new one requested a full 5-hour workup with a clinician at a research facility. DS underwent extensive questionnaire again (him not us this time being questioned mostly as the psych had already done our history) orally but also lots of computerized testing and various things to try to tease out whether he had vision problems, hearing problems, straight attentional or something else neurological. They did all types of things like attending to a little dot or an auditory signal, on and on. Same diagnosis pretty much came of that too, but it was interesting.

[PeterPan]

If the caffeine works and makes her livable (as opposed to the almost dangerous level of hyperactivity you have now), why aren't you doing it? You can get a pill grinder at walmart and put those tablets into anything you want to get them down her. As with most things, she doesn't get a choice. My ds has things like that he has to take, and it's not fun, just gotta get it done.

 

Gotta go. The level of activity in my house needs supervision. :)

[LittleIzumi]

If the caffeine works and makes her livable (as opposed to the almost dangerous level of hyperactivity you have now), why aren't you doing it? You can get a pill grinder at walmart and put those tablets into anything you want to get them down her. As with most things, she doesn't get a choice. My ds has things like that he has to take, and it's not fun, just gotta get it done.

 

Gotta go. The level of activity in my house needs supervision. :)

 

 

I think I'll have to save the Battle of Swallowing Caffeine for after we're done with the Battle of Vision Homework. :lol: We put it in applesauce but apparently you can still taste it and she didn't get enough. I will be making sure the fish oil and the exercise happens every day, and see if that helps until we're done with VT.

[PeterPan]

You're a lot nicer than I am. I give ds3 his ground up calcium on a spoon along with a capsule of probiotic that I open up. He sputters and swigs it down with water. Then he takes 3 tsp of flax oil (because he doesn't do well with fish). He hates it, but he does it anyway. Occasionally there are battles you just pick. I'm laid back about almost anything and everything else. (Well not how my towels are folded, but you get the point, lol.)

 

I'm not meaning to be insensitive if she's got an inner hurdle that can't be conquered. I'm just saying that's what we do.

[wapiti]

You're a lot nicer than I am. I give ds3 his ground up calcium on a spoon along with a capsule of probiotic that I open up. He sputters and swigs it down with water. Then he takes 3 tsp of flax oil (because he doesn't do well with fish). He hates it, but he does it anyway.

 

:lol: I don't know how you do it!

 

Ever have him try liquid cal/mag? Ds8 prefers the blueberry-flavored one. No grinding, no mixing. Still, liquid is annoying because I usually almost spill it while I yell to him not to move away while I'm pouring on the spoon. I'm so excited that the three older ones finally all love their "fish" (MoreEPA) so asthma boy will finally be getting a regular dose, though it'll cost me. They beg for it.

 

I admit I fell off the wagon with the probiotics for ds8. Maybe I'll mix it into his nightly concoction tomorrow (along with the mag citrate, inositol, a little water and sprinkle of sugar) and see if he notices.

[PeterPan]

Ooo, I forgot about looking for a liquid cal/mag! I looked in a few vitamin stores (but not online obviously), didn't find it, and gave up. The calcium supplement I have him on is what dd has been on all these years (sans milk), and she has grown very nicely. So at least I know this one is a good one, even if it's a pain to get into him.

 

And yes, I think it gets in because I'm more of a pain in the butt than he's willing to be. Or my middle name is Sarge. (It's not really.) But I totally allow that some kids are harder. Just saying what works for us.

[Guest]

Marie, that has been my big question lately. I feel like we have a very clear set of diagnoses here and a specific set of issues. We have been seeing lots of improvement in behavior, mood and academic performance by pursuing therapies that are pretty narrowly targeted at those specific issues. So in that respect, I tend to want to separate out causes as much as possible when I'm thinking about therapies.

 

BUT, the behaviors for all these issues have a lot of overlap, and the instructional approaches one would use to reach these kids tend to have a lot of overlap. So, I've been focused on reading about dyslexia (even though my ds isn't dyslexic) and ADHD and SPD and VSLs and 2e/gifted kids with an emphasis on the strategies and programs that work with these kids' strengths and support their difficulties. I'm seeing a ton of overlap in this regard.

 

Thank you for your post here. Beside a diagnosis, the connections between these disorders has been of particular interest to me. If you asked me a few months ago, I probably would have ruled out the possibility of Asperger's (or Autism in general). While reading books on ADD/ ADHD and now Autism, I am seeing connections and overlap and it has piqued my curiosity for further research. While I have put aside the dyslexia possibility for us, I agree with you that reading up on these things (even to just see the connections and overlap) can be invaluable. I want my kids to be the best they can be and have a good life (don't we all :)!) so researching in order to do the best I can for them is very important to me and labels no longer concern me (I admit, they did before because I was concerned about the stigma attached to them and how this could impact their lives). But worrying about labels will not serve them well now or in the future, so now I say bring it on. I want to know as much as I can in order to be my kids' best and strongest advocate! I also have to admit that the way the human brain works (especially a child's) has always fascinated me anyway.

 

I was reading this from Bright Not Broken that I found interesting and thought I would share it:

 

What is it that allows so many 2e children to be trapped in the diagnosis of a behavioral disorder (such as ADHD) that attaches additional labels to explain their other symptoms, leads to treatment with strong psychoactive medications, and too often prohibits an accurate identification of hidden impairments, causing countless parents to spend years chasing labels and trying ineffective treatments?

 

The overriding answer to why 2e children are trapped by the mental health field is that our diagnostic system itself—the foundation of which is the Diagnostic and Statistical Manual of Mental Disorders (DSM)—is fundamentally flawed. As you will see in Chapter Five, this system is mired in controversy at the highest levels of psychiatry, where debates rage about the system's usefulness and validity, especially at the clinical level where diagnoses are made. The “demonizing polarization”2 of top-level psychiatrists testifies to the fierce civil war going on about the DSM system and its fundamental design, which is based on categories that separate disorders from one another through narrowly defined sets of symptoms. In fact, exclusive reliance on the categorical system has been described as “one of the greatest mistakes of psychiatry research in the 20th century.”3 We believe strongly that the public at large, but especially parents of 2e children diagnosed with ADHD or autism, should be made aware of the controversies surrounding the DSM. With their children's futures at stake, parents are the premier stakeholders in the DSM system and rely on the professionals who use it.

 

Kennedy, Diane M.; Banks, Rebecca S.; Grandin, Temple (2011-08-02). Bright Not Broken: Gifted Kids, ADHD, and Autism . Jossey-Bass. Kindle Edition.

Edited November 18, 2011 by Guest

[Guest]

If I could attempt to reconcile them, I'd suggest that some kids who *would* be VSL can't be *fully* VSL because they haven't yet had VT to deal with their vision problems. You resolve the vision problems, and the VSL kicks in.

 

OhElizabeth, could you explain this a bit further for me please? I was not sure what you meant. I am also unclear as to whether there are differences between a visual thinker and a visual spacial learner. Wiki attempts to post some type of differences but of course, given the source ;), I want to research a bit more on this. I went through the VSL checklist and we are all definitely on there. Also, while reading "Thinking in Pictures" (now I have three books going a the same time :lol:), it is becoming quite clear to me that visual thinkers differ and have different levels of intensity. For example, Grandin can actually scan a page from a book and store it in her memory to read later. We agreed with my hubby that this appears to go beyond just a visual memory, to a photographic memory. I have pictures in my head from my childhood that go as far back as about two, but I could never scan a page from a book in my head to read later (wish I could though ;)!). Anyway, I am rambling once again.

 

 

I saw this with dd. Also Silverman is a psych and Freed a tutor, right? Mercy, I'd have to drag out my Freed and see. I just don't remember him as having some astounding background. And Silverman's reputation online is so haphazard (some good but some bizarre or extreme things), that I put a dose of mortal realism (and not absolutism) or her comments either. Reconcile them in the middle and you probably find the truth.

 

Two, my dd isn't that young, but she did the blip test. I don't see why they couldn't do it on a 6 yo, so I'll bet they would. That for me was fascinating, because it's a statistically reasonable thing to do (in my mind) and not *subjective* the way the inventories are. Yes, we did that inventory. Actually we've done it over and over and over... I know we did it for the OT and then again for the psych. One of the authors of it is a psych near us, hehe. I didn't chose him, because he came across like he knew those categories by experience, hehe. I chose somebody nice and calm... ;)

 

In my 40+ years, I have come to realize that the best place to be is midway. Whenever I have tried to generalize on something it has come to bite me in the behind. I remember Grandin saying that she believes that most people with Autism will more than likely be highly visual but left room for exceptions ;).

 

 

Three, I triple Canuck's other extremely wise suggestion to read Hallowell (that I'm misspelling at the moment). I almost didn't read the 2nd of his books because the first was so ho-hum. Definitely keep going. The next one was a real gem.

 

I read his first with great interest actually. Many reviewers actually prefer the first :lol:. I did not finish it though because as usual, I had too many books going at once and it had to go back to the library (it's still a pretty popular book). I have read a part of the second one and will be going back to it. I like how he says at the start of the book that if someone has ADD like he does, they will more than likely not be able to finish the entire book, so he lets you know the part of the book to read that is more valuable. I actually have five of his books. I also have Superparenting, Happy Child Happy Adult and some others. Even if ADD is not something that we need to worry about, I always find something valuable to get out of the books I read.

 

The Out of Sync Child. I assume you've read this and the sequel (...Has Fun).

 

I have, the sequel but now I am considering getting the first also. The first book is another popular book I had to return because I had too many books going and it needed to go back to the library :glare:. I had it here till a few days ago. It is now on my list to buy. In our case, given our sensory issues, I also bought "Raising a Sensory Smart Child". I was not going to buy it but after checking it out from the library I realized it was a book I would want to refer back to. If the OP has suspicions that her child may have sensory issues, I think the Out of Sync books and Raising a Sensory Smart Child, would be very good resources to look into.

 

ETA: OK, I just noticed she has already read the Out-of-Sync books.

Edited November 18, 2011 by Guest

[peacefully]

.

[Guest]

Hmmm... I cannot figure out how to quote material that was already quoted...

 

Just copy/ paste the text and put [q-u-o-t-e] at the start and [/q-u-o-t-e] at the end. Ignore the hyphens. I put those because otherwise it would have put what I typed in a quote box.

 

Marie, thank you for writing out that quote from Bright Not Broken. My ds is a bit of a mystery to me. He used to have symptoms of someone who is ADHD and dyslexic, but now it is clear that he is not. I never thought of him as particularly right-brain or VSL, but now it's apparent that perhaps he is. He has diagnoses of Developmental Coordination Disorder, Expressive Language Disorder and vision processing disorders, and those labels describe some of his difficulties accurately, but fail to account for others. He was also diagnosed with SPD, but that may not have been accurate after all. It's possible that he is 2e, but I don't really know. All this to say, I've sort of given up on the labels. Labels, shmabels. :tongue_smilie:

 

The pieces of information that have actually helped us these past two years have been the very specific data from the various evaluations that he has had. It has been helpful to understand how he is scoring in areas like phonological processing, reading comprehension, auditory problem solving, visual processing, working memory, etc. Remediating these very specific areas through therapy has also been helpful. Now I'm focused on just finding whatever instructional approaches work for my child, regardless of whether the source of that information was intended for dyslexic kids, ADHD folks, VSLs, whatever. Part of this process is figuring out where my ds's strengths and passions lie. That information is not necessarily on any test or checklist, and it's very easy to forget to include that as part of the picture. Especially in the beginning of this journey, it's very easy to get so caught up in the deficits that our kids face. It's so important to let their joys guide us too. It's something that I've had to be reminded of many times, often by the posters on this board who have helped me.

 

No need to thank me! I bought the book on Kindle, so all I had to do was copy/paste ;). I use Kindle PC.

 

The context that the quote was used in was that the tests (the DSM to be exact) does not see the whole child or treat the whole child. Like you said, it identifies disorders (labels in other words), through some specific symptoms. It is one of the reasons that a few years back, before Asperger's became more widely known, many kids that were diagnosed as having ADD/ ADHD, actually had Asperger's or ASD. I was kinda expanding on it and using the comment as an example to show how the overlap can manifest itself. After focusing on ADD for a while and then starting to research ASD's, I have noticed the overlap in the symptoms described. Even while reading the link that wapiti posted, I was overwhelmed by the similarities between the symptoms of an ADHD person vs. an ADHD/ VSL person.

 

I think all this research also stems from the fact that I worry about misdiagnosis. I am so glad your son's needs have been identified spot on and dealt with effectively! I wish, whatever is there, that we can have the same.

 

In our case, I can see the VSL signs in my hubby and I and even in Adrian. We fit the pattern very closely. Then my question arises, how can one know for sure that the symptoms are not just from being a VSL person? We also have SPD's, and many of the symptoms overlap there too :banghead:. Sensory issues also seem to manifest themselves through symptoms very similar to ADD and Autism. In any case, what they are trying to say at this point in the book is that by treating the different "labels", the child's positive traits are often ignored.

 

Here's another quote:

 

 

In many cases, a child's disability masks his giftedness, causing parents, educators, and other adults in the child's life to focus on his weaknesses rather than on developing his talents. In other cases, a child's giftedness can mask his disability, meaning that he won't receive the interventions or special education services that could help him manage and possibly overcome his disability.

 

 

 

It is imperative that we find and nurture the gifts in all our kids, 2e or not, not only for their own happiness but also for the good of society.

 

Kennedy, Diane M.; Banks, Rebecca S.; Grandin, Temple (2011-08-02). Bright Not Broken: Gifted Kids, ADHD, and Autism . Jossey-Bass. Kindle Edition.

The part I put in bold is another part that got my attention. I agree with that! Temple Grandin also mentions that in her books, to use for example a child's fixations to his advantage, as these fixations can turn into future careers. It is something I have focused on with my children. They do fixate and while this can be considered a crutch (especially when you are trying to teach them something else and they can't get their mind off of the fixation :tongue_smilie:), I feel, if we can use these fixations in a positive way, what a better world we can have :)! To clarify, I am talking about positive fixations of course.

 

Another thing that also has me concerned is, if while treating some of the symptoms of the various labels (especially with meds), while disregarding their good traits, we may be altering the child and who he/ she is meant to be.

 

Here's another quote:

 

As Temple explains in her book Thinking in Pictures, many of our most creative, divergent, and visual thinkers exhibited overt symptoms of what today would be labeled a developmental disability even before their giftedness was recognized. For instance, Albert Einstein did not learn to speak until age three and did not seek out friendships with peers. He struggled with spelling and foreign languages and was not seen as exceptional in school. Yet intensity in his area of passion allowed him to concentrate for hours and even days on a problem. Gregor Mendel, the founder of modern genetics, could not pass the teaching exam to qualify to teach high school, but his experiments eventually led to our contemporary understanding of genetics, which today is standard in most high school biology curricula. Temple herself was an adult before she recognized the extent of her differences from others. As a youngster she did not speak until age four and was extremely hyperactive. Nevertheless, her mother saw glimmers of her visual-spatial brilliance and encouraged her in artistic pursuits, such as drawing, which later became foundational in her development of livestock handling systems used around the world.

 

Kennedy, Diane M.; Banks, Rebecca S.; Grandin, Temple (2011-08-02). Bright Not Broken: Gifted Kids, ADHD, and Autism (p. 5). Jossey-Bass. Kindle Edition.

The focus of course is on 2e children, since this is the topic of the book, but I take it further. Even with a non 2e child, how much are we changing the child? To explain, I am not referring to dealing with severe disabilities that are impairing to a child's quality of life. I just wonder how much this affects the positive that the child has in him/ her and who he/ she can be. Grandin states in her books that if Autism could be gotten rid of genetically, she would not want that for herself. She is happy to be an Autistic person since many discoveries/ inventions/ technological advances have now been attributed to people with ASD and particularly Asperger's. Even Hallowell for example, detests the term ADD (Attention Deficit Disorder). He does not feel it is a disorder and only considers it that if it is impairing the individual's quality of life.

 

Sorry, my thoughts have turned out more random than I wish for them to be :tongue_smilie:! It is almost 4:00am here so once again my brain is beginning to feel a bit fried :lol:.

 

As if to shove that message in my face even more, I've been reading over and over again in the books I listed in that reading list thread, kids with this set of issues need novelty, context, humor, personal relevance to learn effectively. Their brains especially need that, but shouldn't all kids get that kind of personal connection to what they learn? Talk about overlap!

 

:iagree:

Edited November 18, 2011 by Guest

[Guest]

:lol: I was just told my post was too long, so I had to break it into two :lol:!

 

I had originally expected an ADHD diagnosis from our NP eval. When the NP said that ds didn't meet the diagnostic criteria, I was completely floored. Then our OT insisted that ds was SPD, which could explain some of his ADHD symptoms. It seemed to make sense, but it ultimately didn't really pan out that way. Our ST explained with absolutely predictive clarity that ds's auditory processing and working memory issues "triggered" his ADHD symptoms (both spaciness and hyperactivity). In our case, continuing to hunt for a "cause" for his symptoms led to therapies that have totally helped. Now it's clear that ds is slow-processing, but absolutely not spacey or hyper. It's a huge change.

 

I have a friend who's child was diagnosed as hearing impaired (he had hearing loss) and thus had speech issues. While going to speech therapy, she overheard another mom talking about how her children had tonsil and adenoid issues, which ultimately (in some situations) can affect hearing and therefore speech. After having the surgery to remove both tonsils and adenoids, the hearing loss was completely gone. In my friend's situation, had she not overheard about this, where would her child be today? And her instinct had told her there was something wrong since the child was much younger, but was not taken seriously by the doctors seeing her child. Anyway, the speech issues have almost completely disappeared now. All that is left is some expressive language issues to deal with. I love hearing success stories like yours! It's great when you end up with the right professional help in order to deal with whatever issues are affecting your child! The possibility of misdiagnosis still scares me :tongue_smilie:!

Edited November 18, 2011 by Guest