How do you advise. . .?

[4everHis]

Single man in 30's, has degrees in a specific field, hasn't worked in 2 years (there really isn't work in his field) and yet the 'whole' world is against him. Thinks it's crazy to work ANYwhere for less than what he thinks is his due with degrees. Yet hasn't gotten a paycheck in 2 years. What do you say to this person?

[ThatCyndiGirl]

Work anywhere!

 

 

After way too many years of working in my degree field, I have decided to go in a completely different direction, anyway.

 

Besides, I am of the belief that scrubbing toilets, waiting tables, etc. makes you appreciate your chosen profession that much more.....and sometimes gives you time for reflection and introspection. It certainly did for me. (Cutting down trees)

[Scarlett]

Single man in 30's, has degrees in a specific field, hasn't worked in 2 years (there really isn't work in his field) and yet the 'whole' world is against him. Thinks it's crazy to work ANYwhere for less than what he thinks is his due with degrees. Yet hasn't gotten a paycheck in 2 years. What do you say to this person?

 

Get out?

 

Seriously, it would depend on my relationship to this person. If he is asking me to support him financially in any way, I would be stopping that now. Probably long before 2 years had passed.

 

If it is my brother or other friend or relative....just smile and nod.

[joannqn]

I like Heigh Ho's response: "How's that working for you?"

 

I would not support that person or provide any assistance. When/if he moans about not having any money, I'd remind him that it was his choice not to find work.

[BabyBre]

He sounds very arrogant, self-important. He clearly doesn't need to work and doesn't want to earn his keep. I doubt you'll be able to say anything to make him change that. He's going to have to want to change it. A good slice of humble pie would do him much good.

[BrookValley.]

That doing good work, no matter the field or how "crappy" the job is perceived to be, can be satisfying. Even if that good work is cleaning a bathroom. And I'm not just saying that. I've scrubbed toilets for a paycheck.

 

I've waited tables; worked on a janitorial crew; been a line cook; groomed, taught, and rode for a hunter/jumper show barn; taught preschool; and worked in a hunting/fishing store (slinging bloody deer carcasses or fletching arrows, anyone? :D). I've also had "white collar" jobs; I'm currently the senior technical writer for a mid-size corporation. I've managed a retail store. Yes, some jobs I've liked better, but all had/have their positives and negatives, and at the end of the day knowing that I did good work is ultimately what satisfies me.

 

Another positive to having worked in so many different types of jobs is the diversity of experience it gave me, and not necessarily in a job skill/experience way. I've met people I wouldn't have met and gained knowledge and life-enriching experience through working in these different jobs. Shoot, if I hadn't had that job as a line cook right out of high school, I would never have met my husband. :D And oddly enough, if I had never worked at that barn, I would never have ended up as a technical writer (that's a long story). I just don't think it's worthwhile to close your mind to any type of opportunity. You just never know where it's going to lead.

[AK_Mom4]

Get out?

 

Seriously, it would depend on my relationship to this person. If he is asking me to support him financially in any way, I would be stopping that now. Probably long before 2 years had passed.

 

If it is my brother or other friend or relative....just smile and nod.

:iagree: This exactly.....

[gardenmom5]

suggest he start his own business. (aka: think outside the box)

 

yes, he won't get the pay he wants the first few years, but if the business works, he'll probably eventually make more than he was. starting a business is an investment, not a short-term fix.

[4everHis]

Thanks all. This gentleman was bemoaning his 'fate in life' and every.single.thing. suggested in previous posts was said to him(not by me but by men). Unfortunately, he seems to fall in the realm that some have mentioned, he was allowed to move 'home' and hasn't hit bottom hard enough I guess. Doesn't understand why people are frustrated with him. I wondered at some point if it might make more of an impact if I was the one talking, from the woman side of things?:tongue_smilie:

[Scarlett]

Thanks all. This gentleman was bemoaning his 'fate in life' and every.single.thing. suggested in previous posts was said to him(not by me but by men). Unfortunately, he seems to fall in the realm that some have mentioned, he was allowed to move 'home' and hasn't hit bottom hard enough I guess. Doesn't understand why people are frustrated with him. I wondered at some point if it might make more of an impact if I was the one talking, from the woman side of things?:tongue_smilie:

 

Again depends on your relationship with him. Certainly, I would offer my 2 cents to my brother (I often have!) but if he doesn't take the advice given then just ignore him. My brother lives his life VASTLY differently than I live mine...so there are some subjects we just don't discuss.

[Unicorn.]

He hasn't hit bottom because he is being enabled. As long as he doesn't have to support himself, and has others taking care of him, he won't hit rock bottom. He needs to be given an ultimatum, and it needs to be followed through. IOW, "Get a job and pay X number of dollars in room and board by such and such date, or get out. Period!" Good luck!

[Scarlett]

He hasn't hit bottom because he is being enabled. As long as he doesn't have to support himself, and has others taking care of him, he won't hit rock bottom. He needs to be given an ultimatum, and it needs to be followed through. IOW, "Get a job and pay X number of dollars in room and board by such and such date, or get out. Period!" Good luck!

 

:iagree:

[Trish]

suggest he start his own business. (aka: think outside the box)

 

yes, he won't get the pay he wants the first few years, but if the business works, he'll probably eventually make more than he was. starting a business is an investment, not a short-term fix.

 

:iagree:

[Donna]

Get a job anywhere then try for something else. I have heard it is easier to get a job if you already have a job.

[4everHis]

The men, whom he seemed to be seeking counsel from, told him the same thing. Get work, ANY work, it looks better on any resume than. . I sat home for 2 years.

[justamouse]

Say nothing. There's nothing you CAN say to that. He apparently needs a more painful lesson than the one he's receiving.

[gardenmom5]

(snip) I wondered at some point if it might make more of an impact if I was the one talking, from the woman side of things?:tongue_smilie:

 

no, it wouldn't make a difference coming from a woman, not his mother, sister, or wife.

 

the other thing is to tell him to look for a job in other cities and he needs to be willing to move.

[TechWife]

Thanks all. This gentleman was bemoaning his 'fate in life' and every.single.thing. suggested in previous posts was said to him(not by me but by men). Unfortunately, he seems to fall in the realm that some have mentioned, he was allowed to move 'home' and hasn't hit bottom hard enough I guess. Doesn't understand why people are frustrated with him. I wondered at some point if it might make more of an impact if I was the one talking, from the woman side of things?:tongue_smilie:

 

Interesting. I have an observation - would you be this harsh on him if he were your son? It's different when you think about the possibility of turning one of your own children away. Would you? Could you really do that? Most people go through a lengthy emotional/mental process before they can let a child go like that. Speaking as a Christian, I'm not sure that the idea is Biblical.

 

But, for another perspective, I have been slowly reading Love, Warmth and Discipline: Lessons from Boys Town for Successful Parenting. Rev. Peter has a lot to say about how our culture got where we are today. He discusses some interesting studies that peg the end of adolescence for the young American to be anywhere between ages 30-34.

 

He says these are the characteristics of "Emerging Adults" - as this group of people is coming to be known:

1 - They are convinced that "you can be whatever you want to be."

2 - They are convinced that self-esteem is all important.

3 - They are sure it's unnecessary to conform to the rules.

4 - They are convinced there is easy access to s3xual fulfillment.

5 - They believe life is all about consumption and gratification.

 

Now, keep in mind that Boys Town works with troubled kids - so Rev. Peter has seen his share of troubled kids & troubled families. The man has been observing & helping them for years.

 

Here are four things he says you can do to help young people grow up, be economically successful and have a successful family life. He writes them with the disclaimer "Use them gently, compassionately and with much warmth."

1 - Realize that the promise you were given to believe in high school - namely,that you can be whatever you want to be - is bunk.

2 - Push the self-esteem movement out of your mind and out of your life. That's not the end of your dreams; it's the end of empty dreams.

3 - Understand the necessity of following the rules. Yes, all of the rules.

4 - Realize that life is not principally about consumption and gratification, but about preparing yourself for taking your role in adult society.

 

I'm about 1/3 of the way through the book & I don't know how he suggests accomplishing the above, but I'm all ears (all eyes, that is).

 

At the same time, I am reading The Primal Brain: What New Discoveries About the Teenage Brain Tell Us about Our Kids. This second book includes a lot of information on brain development and puts forth the point that in order to develop correctly, teens must take risks, fail & learn from them (in other words, they need practical experience in problem solving - I think that's what they are after - I'm about 1/3 of the way through this one).

 

I'm synthesizing this information as I read - the two books are complementing each other well.

 

Any thoughts?

[4everHis]

Interesting. I have an observation - would you be this harsh on him if he were your son? It's different when you think about the possibility of turning one of your own children away. Would you? Could you really do that? Most people go through a lengthy emotional/mental process before they can let a child go like that. Speaking as a Christian, I'm not sure that the idea is Biblical.

 

But, for another perspective, I have been slowly reading Love, Warmth and Discipline: Lessons from Boys Town for Successful Parenting. Rev. Peter has a lot to say about how our culture got where we are today. He discusses some interesting studies that peg the end of adolescence for the young American to be anywhere between ages 30-34.

 

He says these are the characteristics of "Emerging Adults" - as this group of people is coming to be known:

1 - They are convinced that "you can be whatever you want to be."

2 - They are convinced that self-esteem is all important.

3 - They are sure it's unnecessary to conform to the rules.

4 - They are convinced there is easy access to s3xual fulfillment.

5 - They believe life is all about consumption and gratification.

 

Now, keep in mind that Boys Town works with troubled kids - so Rev. Peter has seen his share of troubled kids & troubled families. The man has been observing & helping them for years.

 

Here are four things he says you can do to help young people grow up, be economically successful and have a successful family life. He writes them with the disclaimer "Use them gently, compassionately and with much warmth."

1 - Realize that the promise you were given to believe in high school - namely,that you can be whatever you want to be - is bunk.

2 - Push the self-esteem movement out of your mind and out of your life. That's not the end of your dreams; it's the end of empty dreams.

3 - Understand the necessity of following the rules. Yes, all of the rules.

4 - Realize that life is not principally about consumption and gratification, but about preparing yourself for taking your role in adult society.

 

I'm about 1/3 of the way through the book & I don't know how he suggests accomplishing the above, but I'm all ears (all eyes, that is).

 

At the same time, I am reading The Primal Brain: What New Discoveries About the Teenage Brain Tell Us about Our Kids. This second book includes a lot of information on brain development and puts forth the point that in order to develop correctly, teens must take risks, fail & learn from them (in other words, they need practical experience in problem solving - I think that's what they are after - I'm about 1/3 of the way through this one).

 

I'm synthesizing this information as I read - the two books are complementing each other well.

 

Any thoughts?

 

btw: I think if he was required to at least pay some rent it would force him to get a job, ANY job where the letting him move home and not contributing is allowing him to go 2 years without a paycheck and blame the rest of the world for his bad luck in not being able to get a job in HIS field making the amount a $$ he thinks he deserves.

 

I've been thinking about this too. I think part of the problem is that we let kids mooch ALL the time. Part of being part of a family is contributing, whether it be in chores, helping out with siblings, etc. As a child is older(late teens) we do them a disservice by allowing them to make $$ and totally blow it on themselves. I know my brothers got full use of the family car, I had to do their laundry all because they 'worked.' Well, all their $$ went to souping up cars and stereos, not the family and most definitely not to benefit me. If I were going to allow an older child/children to live with us (and I'm not opposed to it AT ALL!) I think they need to contribute, whether that be in $$ or work around the house. If they are working outside the home I think I'd still take 'rent' $$ and set it aside for them just to teach them that their paycheck isn't for their enjoyment. We're supposed to be raising our children to be responsible adults and yet I think we shoot ourselves in the foot by not showing them the realities of having a job and supporting themselves.

 

jmho :001_smile:

Edited November 16, 2011 by connib
to add the btw:

[TechWife]

I've been thinking about this too. I think part of the problem is that we let kids mooch ALL the time. Part of being part of a family is contributing, whether it be in chores, helping out with siblings, etc. As a child is older(late teens) we do them a disservice by allowing them to make $$ and totally blow it on themselves...If I were going to allow an older child/children to live with us (and I'm not opposed to it AT ALL!) I think they need to contribute, whether that be in $$ or work around the house. If they are working outside the home I think I'd still take 'rent' $$ and set it aside for them just to teach them that their paycheck isn't for their enjoyment. We're supposed to be raising our children to be responsible adults and yet I think we shoot ourselves in the foot by not showing them the realities of having a job and supporting themselves.

 

I think this is a great point. I tend not to demand enough of ds when it comes to contributing to chores. I will be mending my ways! You have an excellent point about requiring that an adult child contribute to the household - completing chores & household repairs, car maintenance, etc. are great ways to do this!

 

You also gave me an idea. It is likely that ds won't be driving when he gets his first job. I'll have to consider that he contribute to the cost of gas/time that we spend taking him back & forth to work. Would I also charge to take him to meet a buddy also? I will need to consider the extent of this idea. Hmm.

[Cheryl in NM]

Single man in 30's, has degrees in a specific field, hasn't worked in 2 years (there really isn't work in his field) and yet the 'whole' world is against him. Thinks it's crazy to work ANYwhere for less than what he thinks is his due with degrees. Yet hasn't gotten a paycheck in 2 years. What do you say to this person?

 

Take whatever job you can get, but keep looking for something in your chosen profession. Paying your bills is the most important thing. I would question the work ethic of the above person.

[kalanamak]

Interesting. I have an observation - would you be this harsh on him if he were your son?

 

 

Harsher. But only once, then that would be that on the topic, and, at 32 without disability, not a penny more. The pennies would have stopped before 32, actually. There would have been a reasonable timeline over 5 years ago.

 

If it was not someone I related to/very close to, I wouldn't say anything. If I wasn't related or close but supporting them, I'd give them a short timeline.

[4everHis]

I think this is a great point. I tend not to demand enough of ds when it comes to contributing to chores. I will be mending my ways! You have an excellent point about requiring that an adult child contribute to the household - completing chores & household repairs, car maintenance, etc. are great ways to do this!

 

You also gave me an idea. It is likely that ds won't be driving when he gets his first job. I'll have to consider that he contribute to the cost of gas/time that we spend taking him back & forth to work. Would I also charge to take him to meet a buddy also? I will need to consider the extent of this idea. Hmm.

 

These are some ideas that I've been tossing around in my own head too. I think we forget that children not seriously contributing to the family/household has been a very recent turn of events. Until the industrial age really took over, kids helped so that life could happen. I'm not thinking we go back to child/slave labor :D but I do think we're robbing our kids when they spend many years 'getting' and not 'contributing' whether that be in $$ or work. No wonder they're shocked when they get their first paycheck and the government has gotten to it and, God forbid, they have to give some of it up to pay bills or to eat. You have some great ideas!

[4everHis]

Harsher. But only once, then that would be that on the topic, and, at 32 without disability, not a penny more. The pennies would have stopped before 32, actually. There would have been a reasonable timeline over 5 years ago.

 

If it was not someone I related to/very close to, I wouldn't say anything. If I wasn't related or close but supporting them, I'd give them a short timeline.

 

I think he came from a well-to do family and has just never had to suck it up and get on with life. He's stuck in 'victim' mode just now and I'm not sure who should be giving that swift kick. Obviously his parents, who are enableing him just now, have contributed to what he is and I'm not sure they see it. For his sake I hope he 'gets' it soon.

[4everHis]

Take whatever job you can get, but keep looking for something in your chosen profession. Paying your bills is the most important thing. I would question the work ethic of the above person.

 

I was questioning too, but was assured by men in his life that, in his given field, he's a super hard worker. Somehow he's just lost perspective and I don't know what to say to him.

[4everHis]

Interesting. I have an observation - would you be this harsh on him if he were your son? It's different when you think about the possibility of turning one of your own children away. Would you? Could you really do that? Most people go through a lengthy emotional/mental process before they can let a child go like that. Speaking as a Christian, I'm not sure that the idea is Biblical.

 

But, for another perspective, I have been slowly reading Love, Warmth and Discipline: Lessons from Boys Town for Successful Parenting. Rev. Peter has a lot to say about how our culture got where we are today. He discusses some interesting studies that peg the end of adolescence for the young American to be anywhere between ages 30-34.

 

He says these are the characteristics of "Emerging Adults" - as this group of people is coming to be known:

1 - They are convinced that "you can be whatever you want to be."

2 - They are convinced that self-esteem is all important.

3 - They are sure it's unnecessary to conform to the rules.

4 - They are convinced there is easy access to s3xual fulfillment.

5 - They believe life is all about consumption and gratification.

 

Now, keep in mind that Boys Town works with troubled kids - so Rev. Peter has seen his share of troubled kids & troubled families. The man has been observing & helping them for years.

 

Here are four things he says you can do to help young people grow up, be economically successful and have a successful family life. He writes them with the disclaimer "Use them gently, compassionately and with much warmth."

1 - Realize that the promise you were given to believe in high school - namely,that you can be whatever you want to be - is bunk.

2 - Push the self-esteem movement out of your mind and out of your life. That's not the end of your dreams; it's the end of empty dreams.

3 - Understand the necessity of following the rules. Yes, all of the rules.

4 - Realize that life is not principally about consumption and gratification, but about preparing yourself for taking your role in adult society.

 

I'm about 1/3 of the way through the book & I don't know how he suggests accomplishing the above, but I'm all ears (all eyes, that is).

 

At the same time, I am reading The Primal Brain: What New Discoveries About the Teenage Brain Tell Us about Our Kids. This second book includes a lot of information on brain development and puts forth the point that in order to develop correctly, teens must take risks, fail & learn from them (in other words, they need practical experience in problem solving - I think that's what they are after - I'm about 1/3 of the way through this one).

 

I'm synthesizing this information as I read - the two books are complementing each other well.

 

Any thoughts?

 

just re-read this and it's a little scary!!! That is exactly what I see in the few 18-30 year olds I am around.

[StephanieZ]

Well, I am guessing that man isn't going to listen to anyone.

 

I sure would NOT be giving him any $ or subsidizing him in any way. (And I'd do my best to convince any elderly relatives to do likewise.) If he faces living on the street and eating at a soup kitchen, maybe he'll reconsider his options.

 

Good grief.

 

That said, perhaps he could be convinced to make himself useful to society as a volunteer somewhere, hopefully somewhere he'll be in contact with people with bigger problems. Like a shelter. Soup kitchen. Meals on wheels. Etc. If I wanted to help this fellow, I'd offer him rides with me to some such volunteer opportunity.

 

No subsidies. No trying to talk sense into him. Save your breath.

[kalanamak]

just re-read this and it's a little scary!!! That is exactly what I see in the few 18-30 year olds I am around.

 

Hummm. Being convinced you can "be whatever you want to be" has served me well. That is not the same as "expecting it all to be handed to you on a platter".

 

Take a high school drop out who had poor rote memorization skills, little science, and who fainted at the sight of blood (every dang time) and combine that with the belief I could be whatever I wanted to be, and 10 years later, I was. :D:D:D (And yes, I fainted a few times. Willing myself to get over that was tough.)

[nd293]

Single man in 30's, has degrees in a specific field, hasn't worked in 2 years (there really isn't work in his field) and yet the 'whole' world is against him. Thinks it's crazy to work ANYwhere for less than what he thinks is his due with degrees. Yet hasn't gotten a paycheck in 2 years. What do you say to this person?

 

I'd say there is nothing worse than a hole in your resume without an explanation - he needs to be full-time volunteering, or doing something. We're immigrants, and one of dh's engineering colleagues from his old company in South Africa came to Australia without a job offer, and worked delivering pizzas for a year until he could get an engineering job. Isn't there a saying about how "winners never quit and quitters never win"?

[4everHis]

I'd say there is nothing worse than a hole in your resume without an explanation - he needs to be full-time volunteering, or doing something. We're immigrants, and one of dh's engineering colleagues from his old company in South Africa came to Australia without a job offer, and worked delivering pizzas for a year until he could get an engineering job. Isn't there a saying about how "winners never quit and quitters never win"?

 

I let one of the guys talking to him know that this was a legitimate concern.

I

[bookfiend]

I'd say he has more pride than sense.

[TechWife]

Hummm. Being convinced you can "be whatever you want to be" has served me well. That is not the same as "expecting it all to be handed to you on a platter".

 

Take a high school drop out who had poor rote memorization skills, little science, and who fainted at the sight of blood (every dang time) and combine that with the belief I could be whatever I wanted to be, and 10 years later, I was. :D:D:D (And yes, I fainted a few times. Willing myself to get over that was tough.)

 

This is discussed in the book, actually. The discussion centers around the fact that you can be what you want to be, but you need to dream realistic dreams. They actually use an example that is very similar to your life. Their example is someone who has poor math & science skills wanting to be a doctor. In order to do this, this person would have to do some remedial work in math and science before pursuing that path. If you aren't willing/able to do the remedial work, than a physician's license isn't in the future. The dreams need to be realistic. You were obviously willing & able to do the hard work that you needed to do, so your dream was realistic, even though it might have seemed like the "impossible dream" to casual observer, or even yourself at times.

 

Does that make more sense?

Edited November 17, 2011 by TechWife

[LostSurprise]

As someone else has mentioned at a certain point the employment gap tells your possible employer that you just aren't willing to work. It becomes a cycle of 'I want this job but they won't hire me because I haven't had a job in X years.'

 

So get a job, any job, and show you're game.

 

I saw this happen to my dad in the late '80s. Only with him, no one wanted to hire him in his field because they were afraid he'd move on too quickly so he had to turn to menial jobs during the wait. He had 2 degrees and 15 years experience.

 

Surprisingly, no one owes you a job. :tongue_smilie: You may never get a job in your field. Life is what you do with that possibility. The more you sit the further behind you get.

[4everHis]

As someone else has mentioned at a certain point the employment gap tells your possible employer that you just aren't willing to work. It becomes a cycle of 'I want this job but they won't hire me because I haven't had a job in X years.'

 

So get a job, any job, and show you're game.

 

I saw this happen to my dad in the late '80s. Only with him, no one wanted to hire him in his field because they were afraid he'd move on too quickly so he had to turn to menial jobs during the wait. He had 2 degrees and 15 years experience.

 

Surprisingly, no one owes you a job. :tongue_smilie: You may never get a job in your field. Life is what you do with that possibility. The more you sit the further behind you get.

 

Do NOT think he gets this. I agree with you and I wonder what your dad says about that experience now?

[Quiver0f10]

Get out?

 

Seriously, it would depend on my relationship to this person. If he is asking me to support him financially in any way, I would be stopping that now. Probably long before 2 years had passed.

 

If it is my brother or other friend or relative....just smile and nod.

 

This.