micheller1 Posted November 14, 2011 Share Posted November 14, 2011 (edited) I just saw on their facebook page that Homeschool share will be removing their FIAR resources. So I just wanted to share that with y'all. Â Per their Facebook page: Â Homeschool Share The FIAR publishers have expressed their disapproval of the FIAR related resources at Homeschool Share: http://www.facebook.com/groups/22676170858/doc/10150402505830859/ Â The FIAR resources will be removed on Saturday, November 19th. Â I am asking that YOU remain silent on this issue, please. I do not want this to be ugly. It is what it is, and I need to remove the resources in order to protect myself from possible (not probable, but possible) legal ramifications in the future. Â Five In A Row Families Following the FIAR Homeschool Curriculum Edited November 14, 2011 by micheller1 to make my msg clearer Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blondeviolin Posted November 14, 2011 Share Posted November 14, 2011 No way! That's horrible! I guess I'll have to go through and save them! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MeaganS Posted November 14, 2011 Share Posted November 14, 2011 Wow, it isn't like FIAR has a corner on the unit studies based on kids books market. I hope that isn't true that they are acting that way. If I was Homeschoolshare, I would just call it "children's book unit studies" and make no reference to FIAR and call it good. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mergath Posted November 14, 2011 Share Posted November 14, 2011 Looks like the document has been deleted from facebook. At least, that's what I'm getting. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CAMom Posted November 14, 2011 Share Posted November 14, 2011 Wow, it isn't like FIAR has a corner on the unit studies based on kids books market. I hope that isn't true that they are acting that way. If I was Homeschoolshare, I would just call it "children's book unit studies" and make no reference to FIAR and call it good. Â Seriously! I hope Ami does that. I love the activities at hss. They have greatly enriched our FIAR experience. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sewingmama Posted November 14, 2011 Share Posted November 14, 2011 Wow, it isn't like FIAR has a corner on the unit studies based on kids books market. I hope that isn't true that they are acting that way. If I was Homeschoolshare, I would just call it "children's book unit studies" and make no reference to FIAR and call it good. Â :iagree: Â and I think the other books homeschool share uses are just as good as the FIAR ones - so no loss really. Actually it's a loss to FIAR because I've totally been put off using their curriculum for this and a few other reasons. Â So are they going to crack up at everyone who makes extra resources? I know there is another blogger -Totally Tots or someone who has a whole section of printables and things for each FIAR book that are available to anyone who wants them. Â Maybe that's what the real issue is - they can't stand alternative resources being given away for free because then people won't buy their printables on the FIAR site which I've heard are not very good at all. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CAMom Posted November 14, 2011 Share Posted November 14, 2011 Looks like the document has been deleted from facebook. At least, that's what I'm getting. Â Wow! That was quick. I just read it a few minutes ago.:001_huh: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mom2jjka Posted November 14, 2011 Share Posted November 14, 2011 WHA?! Â Nooooooo! :crying: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sewingmama Posted November 14, 2011 Share Posted November 14, 2011 I guess people are busy downloading over on the HSS site -it's running very slow :lol: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zuzu822 Posted November 14, 2011 Share Posted November 14, 2011 I wasn't able to read the Facebook document either, but here's what I found at HSS from the FIAR publisher: Â http://forum.homeschoolshare.com/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=7631 Â I've never been a big fan of FIAR or the people behind it (although I like the book choices), and this really rubs me the wrong way, especially what he says about potential negative results years down the road from non-approved FIAR resources. :glare: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
micheller1 Posted November 14, 2011 Author Share Posted November 14, 2011 I wasn't able to read the Facebook document either, but here's what I found at HSS from the FIAR publisher:Â http://forum.homeschoolshare.com/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=7631 Â Â Wow :glare: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cseitter Posted November 14, 2011 Share Posted November 14, 2011 This is what they sent out in email:  Here is what was posted concerning HSS-- 'I want to say this carefully, but homeschool share and other "freebie" sites are NOT in ANY WAY related to FIAR. Some of the "freebies" there are better than nothing- and frankly some are worse than nothing. They are all derivative works that present themselves as "go alongs" with FIAR. They are not approved. They are not bona fide. And in many cases they seriously detract from FIAR's well-proven purpose, goals and educational achievements.  While we have not taken legal action against any of the well-intentioned posters there, there is a growing discussion among curriculum publishers about that very topic. Our concern (as publishers) is *NOT* that somebody might be taking away from our income (though that is one result) but rather that we've heard far too many people think that by using the many free derivative works and reading the stories selected by FIAR (or several other curricula) someone might actually *THINK* they're "doing the curriculum" and will likely be horrified at the results several years down the line.  Worse yet- they might BLAME us, saying "their curriculum didn't work at all" when in fact they never USED our curriculum; only one-offs, freebies and pirated derivatives.  Again- I don't want to sound ugly or ungrateful. We are flattered that so many people have wanted to "share" their activities and ideas about our beloved curriculum. On the other hand, I feel we have a responsibility to shepherd what the Lord has entrusted to us and constantly pointing people to homeschool share and other hosts for non-approved derivatives is a grave disservice to other FIAR users who may be getting mediocre or even BAD products which detract from their children's education. With a concerned heart, Steve  . . . FIAR FoldnLearns are SPECIFICALLY crafted to go along with the story, reinforce the educational objectives of the story and do so in a way that encourages your student to grow in important developmental skills and knowledge. Some freebies do the some of those same things. Others however, are nothing more than "babysitters"- educational "fluff" with absolutely no academic value and in some cases they may in fact teach information that is NOT appropriate for the age group we're aiming at, and may teach it in a way that either underutilizes your child's abilities, or worse still frustrates them by expecting too much of them at their developmental stage. Think of it as buying a new Mercedes Benz and then changing the tires for freebies found at the junk yard, a free used battery somebody set out on the curb for recycling, etc. It may work. It may not. But what would be the most frustrating would be for you to do that and then blame Mercedes for your woes 2 years later> "We paid top dollar for that automobile and it was totally unreliable: flat tires, dead battery, etc." We're all free to accessories our cars (and our curriculum) in any way we want- but just don't assume that if someone has hijacked the name "FIAR" that it's in any way related to the learning objectives of the curriculum you've purchased with good money and good intentions.'  The FIAR resources will be removed on Saturday, November 19th. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cseitter Posted November 14, 2011 Share Posted November 14, 2011 I have used the HSS and the fold n learn. The fold n learn's suck and are a waste of money! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rivka Posted November 14, 2011 Share Posted November 14, 2011 Okay, this obviously isn't going to be a popular opinion, but... I can see what the Lamberts mean. We've had someone here on the WTM forums ask whether she really needed to buy FIAR when all the materials were right there for free on HSS. Â And I do think that HSS has led, over time, to an overemphasis on lapbooking FIAR using prepared materials. I think that makes the program more shallow (focusing lessons on things that can be easily reduced to minibook bullet points), and I also think that it's a significant departure from the Lambert's educational philosophy, which focuses on conversational lessons and learning through play and discourages worksheet-type learning for kids of FIAR age. Â Obviously, you can do both a lapbook and conversational, play-based lessons. But there are recurring threads on the FIAR forums in which people come in timidly asking if it's okay to do FIAR without doing lapbooks, and so it doesn't surprise me that the Lamberts have become concerned about brand confusion. A lot of people do have the assumption that FIAR = HSS lapbooks. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CAMom Posted November 14, 2011 Share Posted November 14, 2011 Well, there's a new post on the FIAR Facebook page in which Steve apologizes to Ami and says he's encouraged her not to remove the FIAR resources from hss. Â Rivka, I've used FIAR a long, long, long time. ;) Since 1999 to be exact. Anyone who decides to try and do it without the manuals did not get that advice from Ami or HSS. Ami is always careful to refer people to the manuals. Â Those of us who have been around for a long time have always shared supplemental ideas. And it's always been clear that supplements are just that. They are not a substitute. Of course, people will do what they wish. Lapbooks are popular right now but there are lots of moms who use nothing except the manual and book. Â If the Lamberts wanted to push the idea that FIAR should not have anything added, they would not have come up with the Fold N Learns. I've purchased a few of them and happen to find the HSS resources a better fit for my little guy. Â Anyway, hopefully there will be a resolution and we can continue to benefit from those sharing their creativity! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LaxMom Posted November 14, 2011 Share Posted November 14, 2011 I wasn't able to read the Facebook document either, but here's what I found at HSS from the FIAR publisher:Â http://forum.homeschoolshare.com/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=7631 Â I've never been a big fan of FIAR or the people behind it (although I like the book choices), and this really rubs me the wrong way, especially what he says about potential negative results years down the road from non-approved FIAR resources. :glare: Â I seem to recall - during our admittedly brief FIAR usage (kids HATED doing the same book 5 days straight)- such highly honed activities as "color a picture of a duck". Wow. I have no idea how bad the free offerings might be, if that's where they set the bar. :glare: Â Honestly, I wonder if they even could take legal action... What would they charge? They don't have any claims to other homeschooling parents' activities and ideas. If I said "here's an experiment we did / taxonomy chart I made while using Campbell Biology 5th edition" would Campbell & Reece come after me? Doubtful. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JessieC Posted November 15, 2011 Share Posted November 15, 2011 Well, there's a new post on the FIAR Facebook page in which Steve apologizes to Ami and says he's encouraged her not to remove the FIAR resources from hss.  I don't see this? Is it still there?  I'm disappointed the FIAR folks would do this. Homeschoolshare.com was one of the first stops on my rounds while planning a row. I tried a fold-and-learn once and it was really not worth the money. This makes them look like jerks, imo. They know a lot of their customers enjoy these resources. I agree that hopefully this will be resolved; otherwise I'll be spending my entire week downloading from homeschoolshare and I probably won't be buying another FIAR volume. It just leaves a bad taste in my mouth. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CAMom Posted November 15, 2011 Share Posted November 15, 2011 I don't see this? Is it still there? I'm disappointed the FIAR folks would do this. Homeschoolshare.com was one of the first stops on my rounds while planning a row. I tried a fold-and-learn once and it was really not worth the money. This makes them look like jerks, imo. They know a lot of their customers enjoy these resources. I agree that hopefully this will be resolved; otherwise I'll be spending my entire week downloading from homeschoolshare and I probably won't be buying another FIAR volume. It just leaves a bad taste in my mouth.  I understand the bad taste for sure.:)  His message is still there it's near the middle of the page. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JessieC Posted November 15, 2011 Share Posted November 15, 2011 I understand the bad taste for sure.:)Â His message is still there it's near the middle of the page. Â Oh, I see it now. Thanks! I hope that means Ami won't be taking the resources down. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Meriwether Posted November 15, 2011 Share Posted November 15, 2011 I can't say I'm surprised. I only read a little bit on the FIAR board, but I caught a rant from the husband about how long and hard it was to put the Fold n' Learns together. How they were a steal of a deal. I spend a great big hunk of money on curriculum, but I just didn't believe they were worth the cost. I have FIAR Vol. 1. I have only rowed a few books with the kids. I may be conceited. I may not be giving the curriculum its due. I think the idea is a good one, but I could apply the basic idea to hundreds of children's books. Hundreds. (Except the art part. I stink at art.) Â I may be wrong. I'm going to challenge myself. I am going to pick a book off my shelf tonight and come up with 12 activities to do with it. I think FIAR does more than 12, but I'm only giving myself a few hours. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Murphy101 Posted November 15, 2011 Share Posted November 15, 2011 (edited) I'm only surprised they waited this long. I've been using FIAR since 2004, but I no longer use their board (stopped after a big blow up on their board about supplimenting and freebies) and I will never buy from them again. I don't agree with their "mission".:glare: Â ETA: I own FIAR vol 1-4 and all the books for each volume. I just keep cycling through and adding my own stuff as I go. The FoldNLearns are a waste and, personally, I think the Lamberts are only able to sell them by using guilt trips on customers. I mean followers. Because they aren't a business. They are a mission. Â Whatever. Edited November 15, 2011 by Martha Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jenny in GA Posted November 15, 2011 Share Posted November 15, 2011 I am a person who never would have used FIAR had I not discovered HSS, tried their units and lapbooks, and been encouraged by Ami and others to try FIAR as well. Â I have also stated before that, were it not for the supplementary materials at HSS, I'm not even sure how much I would liked FIAR or even continued using it. Having something tangible to go with it greatly enhanced the studies for us. Â This reminds me of a lengthy conversation on the FIAR boards a few years ago. It bugged me some then, but now it bugs me enough to post about it. Â Someone was asking questions about a FIAR nature study or something, and another poster replied that there was also a good free nature study on HSS that she had enjoyed. Â Well ... There was a huge discussion about whether it was appropriate or rude or ungrateful to say such a thing on the FIAR boards, or whether it should be allowed. I think the bottom line was a request to please not suggest "freebies" on the FIAR board. (And it's their board, so that is their right.) Â Steve (the publisher) said that his concern was not from a business perspective, but rather that someone would try the "freebie," and it wouldn't be any good, and the kid wouldn't enjoy it and nothing would get learned ... gosh, I wish I could remember the exact words, but that was the gist. Â That's what bugged me. It's not like his wife is the only person on the planet who can write a quality, engaging unit study ... not to mention that different people have totally different opinions about what is enjoyable, anyway. It just seemed awfully snooty, like, "Please don't share any "homemade" resources or ideas here, because we must protect the children from the miserable homeschooling experience they will have from using them!" Â The other thing that struck me about the whole conversation at the time was, "Umm ... isn't that what homeschoolers do ALL THE TIME -- share resources and supplement and use all kinds of different materials??" Are we supposed to be so blissfully happy with FIAR (or any single thing) that we would never want any other materials in our homeschooling life? Huh? What homeschooler anywhere does that? Â Somehow I can't picture SWB getting upset that someone is blogging lapbook components to go with SOTW. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blondeviolin Posted November 15, 2011 Share Posted November 15, 2011 I am a person who never would have used FIAR had I not discovered HSS, tried their units and lapbooks, and been encouraged by Ami and others to try FIAR as well. I have also stated before that, were it not for the supplementary materials at HSS, I'm not even sure how much I would liked FIAR or even continued using it. Having something tangible to go with it greatly enhanced the studies for us.  This reminds me of a lengthy conversation on the FIAR boards a few years ago. It bugged me some then, but now it bugs me enough to post about it.  Someone was asking questions about a FIAR nature study or something, and another poster replied that there was also a good free nature study on HSS that she had enjoyed.  Well ... There was a huge discussion about whether it was appropriate or rude or ungrateful to say such a thing on the FIAR boards, or whether it should be allowed. I think the bottom line was a request to please not suggest "freebies" on the FIAR board. (And it's their board, so that is their right.)  Steve (the publisher) said that his concern was not from a business perspective, but rather that someone would try the "freebie," and it wouldn't be any good, and the kid wouldn't enjoy it and nothing would get learned ... gosh, I wish I could remember the exact words, but that was the gist.  That's what bugged me. It's not like his wife is the only person on the planet who can write a quality, engaging unit study ... not to mention that different people have totally different opinions about what is enjoyable, anyway. It just seemed awfully snooty, like, "Please don't share any "homemade" resources or ideas here, because we must protect the children from the miserable homeschooling experience they will have from using them!"  The other thing that struck me about the whole conversation at the time was, "Umm ... isn't that what homeschoolers do ALL THE TIME -- share resources and supplement and use all kinds of different materials??" Are we supposed to be so blissfully happy with FIAR (or any single thing) that we would never want any other materials in our homeschooling life? Huh? What homeschooler anywhere does that?  Somehow I can't picture SWB getting upset that someone is blogging lapbook components to go with SOTW.  This. Like we parents can't decide whether a material is of good quality...:glare: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MeaganS Posted November 15, 2011 Share Posted November 15, 2011 Â Somehow I can't picture SWB getting upset that someone is blogging lapbook components to go with SOTW. Â It has happened and she didn't. She thought it was pretty cool! :001_smile: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stellalarella Posted November 15, 2011 Share Posted November 15, 2011 Well, I'll admit it. I'm one of those people who used the book list for Volume 2 and whipped through HSS to find ideas on how to row the book--we do not do lapbooks, however. After a couple books, I went ahead and purchased the "new" FIAR manual Vol 2 from Rainbow Resource. Â It was helpful to have HSS to give me ideas, even as I have used the manuals for Vol. 1-3. Â It sure would be wonderful to have someone write an updated unit study curriculum with books that aren't so hard to find. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pdalley Posted November 15, 2011 Share Posted November 15, 2011 Well, Now I'm not sad my kids are too old for FIAR or any of their products. Â Bad business decision on the part of FIAR IMO. HSS was the way I first heard of FIAR. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Murphy101 Posted November 15, 2011 Share Posted November 15, 2011 Jenny - Â I was a major contributor to the thread you are referencing and it was not pretty. It boiled down to Steve saying bluntly that anyone who wanted to modify, tweak, supplement or add to FIAR should look elsewhere bc the Lamberts feel it is their mission to only encourage FIAR as is. Because that is enough and they don't want parents to feel pressure to do more. Except for the fold n learns, which they regularly guilt trip push.:glare: Â It was made clear I wasn't welcome there and neither was anyone else who had such notions. I can understand a provider saying, "Hey we are trying to make money here, so please don't hock other wares on our board.". Sure. I get that. Â But to say they don't want people to use their volumes unless they use it the way and with materials provided by the Lamberts because that goes against their personal mission in life? Â Frankly, I think that's just nonsense. At best. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LidiyaDawn Posted November 15, 2011 Share Posted November 15, 2011  Honestly, I wonder if they even could take legal action... What would they charge? They don't have any claims to other homeschooling parents' activities and ideas. If I said "here's an experiment we did / taxonomy chart I made while using Campbell Biology 5th edition" would Campbell & Reece come after me? Doubtful.  Yeah reallyĂ¢â‚¬Â¦.guess all those homeschool blogs with project ideas [hey look at the mummies we made for X!] are gonna get shut down eh? :rolleyes: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mom2jjka Posted November 15, 2011 Share Posted November 15, 2011 Are they going to go after Enchanted Learning, too? Because that's where I get the majority of my FIAR supplements from. (Maps, language activities for Chinese, French, etc., animal printouts, and a bunch of other great stuff that isn't included in their activity packs.) :rolleyes: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
southernm Posted November 15, 2011 Share Posted November 15, 2011 They've already had another site I use, homeschool creations, take their stuff down as well. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lcelmer Posted November 15, 2011 Share Posted November 15, 2011 (edited) OK, there is an update on the HSS facebook site... http://www.facebook.com/pages/Homeschool-Share/121287327908867 "Steve Lambert I've apologized publicly on the FIAR page, and I'll apologize publicly here as well. I was wrong. Clear enough? We have been frustrated by more than one mom who has copied every single page we've ever written and uploaded them to various "share" sites- NOT HSS!! We have also been disappointed in more than a few moms who have said, "We never bought the manuals- we do FIAR by just reading the books and downloading freebies online." That's a shame for them and their children. Ami's generous spirit goes above and beyond- in contrast to some of the hateful posts and emails we've received. THANK YOU Ami! I hope you continue to support FIAR, equipping and encouraging moms in every way possible. Clear enough? Blessings- Steve Lambert" Â Â "The Five in a Row materials *will* remain at Homeschool Share, so you can all stop trying to take our server down now. ;) I'm thankful. I'm just super thankful. " HSS site :party:Now I don't have to stay up all night trying to download them all... :-D DS is getting ready to start BFIAR in a week or so. Edited November 15, 2011 by lcelmer UPDATED INFO! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Farrar Posted November 15, 2011 Share Posted November 15, 2011 It sure would be wonderful to have someone write an updated unit study curriculum with books that aren't so hard to find. Â This is a bit of an aside, but unless you chose only the really leading award winners that stay in print all the time, I think that might be hard. Picture books routinely go out of print and even old Caldecott winners can be hard to find. Books that are easy to find now might be hard to five ten years from now. So I see how that might be harder to do than it first seems. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lcelmer Posted November 15, 2011 Share Posted November 15, 2011 This is a bit of an aside, but unless you chose only the really leading award winners that stay in print all the time, I think that might be hard. Picture books routinely go out of print and even old Caldecott winners can be hard to find. Books that are easy to find now might be hard to five ten years from now. So I see how that might be harder to do than it first seems. Â Â Harder, and a MUCH MORE expensive end product...TOG went this route, and it is a spendy proposition to keep making updated pages when any of the primary resources go out of print. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sewingmama Posted November 15, 2011 Share Posted November 15, 2011 We have also been disappointed in more than a few moms who have said, "We never bought the manuals- we do FIAR by just reading the books and downloading freebies online." That's a shame for them and their children  :glare:  Well some of us mums have no choice because although we would like to buy the FIAR Manuals we live overseas to where they do not ship and if we buy from RR we have to pay high shipping we cannot afford.  So we are stuck making do with what we can get. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lcelmer Posted November 15, 2011 Share Posted November 15, 2011 OK, that's apparently part of a larger post in the Five in a Row group page... Steve Lambert It seems I've stirred a hornet's nest in expressing my concern about some mothers who have told us they don't own the FIAR manuals- just read the stories and do "freebies" from various websites and call that "homeschooling."  Ami at HSS has been VERY, VERY gracious in responding to my post and I owe her a public apology for suggesting that her materials weren't of good quality. Not all FIAR derivatives are created equally. We've also grown weary of finding that more than a few homeschool moms have photocopied or scanned every single page of every single manual and uploaded them to various "sharing" sites over the years-- just as they've copied and uploaded the works of most other homeschool publishers.  THANK YOU to the many who have used and recommended our products- including Ami. THANK YOU to the many who have continued to support our family's efforts over the years. THANK YOU to the many who have encouraged other homeschool moms on their journey. THANK YOU specifically to Ami for her generous spirit and gracious response to my ill-advised post the other day. (Sigh) I've encouraged her NOT to remove any FIAR products from her site in light of all of the above.  FIAR was birthed because Jane had found a way to teach our own girls that worked. She originally created the product as a "freebie" to share with several girlfriends whose homeschooling experience was miserable. Since then it's been used by more than 250,000 children in more than 60 countries and continues to provide a livelihood to our family- modest in some years and generous in others.  We have ALWAYS tried to be generous in our dealings with homeschoolers, offering our time, our wisdom, our advice, encouragement and counseling between 15 and 40 hours each week for free. We have given away 100's and 100's of manuals to those who couldn't afford them. We have tried to price our products realistically in a world of $200 textbooks and $15 e-books.  We want nothing but the very, very BEST for each family that uses FIAR; the best relationship WITH your children, the best educational experience FOR your children and the best parenting experience AS parents.  Again- thank you for your support and encouragement- even when we don't deserve it.  Blessings,  Steve     Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CAMom Posted November 15, 2011 Share Posted November 15, 2011 OK, that's apparently part of a larger post in the  And Ami has posted on HSS that the FIAR resources will remain up.:) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LidiyaDawn Posted November 15, 2011 Share Posted November 15, 2011 Those posts don't sound very apologetic to meĂ¢â‚¬Â¦ they sound more like "okay fine, don't get your knickers in a twist" backtracking after realizing that this might alienate a big part of their customer base.  And this:  We have also been disappointed in more than a few moms who have said, "We never bought the manuals- we do FIAR by just reading the books and downloading freebies online." That's a shame for them and their children. Â Ă¢â‚¬Â¦is just plain rude. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Meriwether Posted November 15, 2011 Share Posted November 15, 2011 Who buys $200 dollar textbooks? This is a serious question. I buy lots of books, but I haven't seen any that expensive. Is that going to take me by surprise in Jr. High or High School? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eloquacious Posted November 15, 2011 Share Posted November 15, 2011 Those posts don't sound very apologetic to meĂ¢â‚¬Â¦ they sound more like "okay fine, don't get your knickers in a twist" backtracking after realizing that this might alienate a big part of their customer base.  Yup! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PhotoGal Posted November 15, 2011 Share Posted November 15, 2011 Yeah. I would say if they are going to threaten people for publishing activities to go along with FIAR, they should be ready to be sued by the publishers of the picture books they are using for FIAR. I mean, the author of Papa Piccolo might have a specific goal or idea of what she wants children to get from her story. FIAR has published activities to go along with it that may not be what that author had in mind. Therefore the author should feel free to threaten FIAR for publishing activities to go along with her book, right? Â I mean, what if someone said they didn't like Papa Piccolo after reading it five times in a row? It would be FIAR's fault that the book didn't appeal to their children and they didn't have a good experience with the book, right? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Word Nerd Posted November 15, 2011 Share Posted November 15, 2011 (edited) I use Sonlight booklists but have never used the curriculum. It would be wrong for me to claim at some point that Sonlight didn't work for our family or that I am a Sonlight user. Why then is it "rude" or in poor form for the Lamberts to be concerned that people make similar claims about FIAR though they are in fact not FIAR users? I agree it was an overreaction to take down the HSS materials, but I do understand why they felt it may be necessary. Edited November 15, 2011 by WordGirl Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jean in Newcastle Posted November 15, 2011 Share Posted November 15, 2011 I use Sonlight booklists but have never used the curriculum. It would be wrong for me to claim at some point that Sonlight didn't work for our family or that I am a Sonlight user. Why then is it "rude" or in poor form for the Lamberts to be concerned that people make similar claims about FIAR though they are in fact not FIAR users? I agree it was an overreaction to take down the HSS materials, but I do understand why they felt it may be necessary. Â Because if someone says something like that it is easier to just laugh and say "Well, you aren't really a FIAR user, are you?" than to get your knickers in a twist. If someone gives their child a less than optimal experience with the picture books that FIAR uses, then oh, well, I think they will survive. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Word Nerd Posted November 15, 2011 Share Posted November 15, 2011 Because if someone says something like that it is easier to just laugh and say "Well, you aren't really a FIAR user, are you?" than to get your knickers in a twist. If someone gives their child a less than optimal experience with the picture books that FIAR uses, then oh, well, I think they will survive. Â This is their livelihood, not some just-for-fun hobby, though. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jean in Newcastle Posted November 15, 2011 Share Posted November 15, 2011 This is their livelihood, not some just-for-fun hobby, though. Â I don't think that matters. Let's say I use Apologia Biology but say "it just doesn't work" and someone asks me if we did the labs and I say "no". People are going to tell me that I didn't use it totally the way it was intended to be used. I really doubt that Apologia is going to get all upset because my son is struggling in biology because I didn't use their material "correctly". Â You already used the analogy of using the SL booklist but not their lesson plans. Discerning homeschoolers are going to ask questions and won't look down on SL for anyone who is not really a SL user. Â What I don't understand is how personally he (they?) seem to take the academic success of other people's children. Sure, we want all children to succeed but there are many variables which can and do get in the way at times. And honestly, I'm sure there are people who have done every single thing "right" in following their curriculum and the children have floundered despite a perfectly fine curriculum. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KungFuPanda Posted November 15, 2011 Share Posted November 15, 2011 Yeah. I would say if they are going to threaten people for publishing activities to go along with FIAR, they should be ready to be sued by the publishers of the picture books they are using for FIAR. I mean, the author of Papa Piccolo might have a specific goal or idea of what she wants children to get from her story. FIAR has published activities to go along with it that may not be what that author had in mind. Therefore the author should feel free to threaten FIAR for publishing activities to go along with her book, right? I mean, what if someone said they didn't like Papa Piccolo after reading it five times in a row? It would be FIAR's fault that the book didn't appeal to their children and they didn't have a good experience with the book, right?  :iagree: I love this.  I also enjoyed BFIAR and FIAR (Years and years ago).  My obligation ended when I paid for the materials. If I want to make up different activities or borrow ideas from others it's my business. If someone wants to not purchase the materials and put together their own unit studies, it's their business. I'm sorry, but substituting an activity from BFIAR cannot cause negative long-term effects.  Reading the letter, it's clear he's concerned about his bottom line. That's life. If a revenue stream seems to be drying up, you line up the next gig. You don't try to guilt and bully people into keeping you afloat. It's not sustainable and you come across as an abrasive personality that nobody cares to do business with. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JessieC Posted November 15, 2011 Share Posted November 15, 2011 My obligation ended when I paid for the materials. If I want to make up different activities or borrow ideas from others it's my business. If someone wants to not purchase the materials and put together their own unit studies, it's their business. I'm sorry, but substituting an activity from BFIAR cannot cause negative long-term effects. Â Reading the letter, it's clear he's concerned about his bottom line. That's life. If a revenue stream seems to be drying up, you line up the next gig. You don't try to guilt and bully people into keeping you afloat. It's not sustainable and you come across as an abrasive personality that nobody cares to do business with. Â Very well said! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rivka Posted November 15, 2011 Share Posted November 15, 2011 My obligation ended when I paid for the materials. If I want to make up different activities or borrow ideas from others it's my business. If someone wants to not purchase the materials and put together their own unit studies, it's their business. I'm sorry, but substituting an activity from BFIAR cannot cause negative long-term effects. Â Right, but they weren't saying that users shouldn't make up different activities or borrow ideas from others. They host book archives full of ideas for supplemental activities, projects, extra reading, etc. It's probably the major topic on the forums they host. Â They were saying that someone with no connection to their business shouldn't put up "FIAR materials" which lead people to believe that that is the way to do FIAR. You may not agree with that either, but it's a very different claim. Â That said, I think that Steve Lambert's letter was abrasive and rude and will win him no friends. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wheres Toto Posted November 15, 2011 Share Posted November 15, 2011 OK, that's apparently part of a larger post in the Five in a Row group page...Steve Lambert It seems I've stirred a hornet's nest in expressing my concern about some mothers who have told us they don't own the FIAR manuals- just read the stories and do "freebies" from various websites and call that "homeschooling." Â We've also grown weary of finding that more than a few homeschool moms have photocopied or scanned every single page of every single manual and uploaded them to various "sharing" sites over the years-- just as they've copied and uploaded the works of most other homeschool publishers. Â Â The first paragraph is odd - people do all kinds of things and call it "homeschooling". I could see them objecting to people just using their booklist and freebies and call that "doing FIAR" but that's not what he says here. He objects to calling that "homeschooling". Does he feel FIAR as written is the only thing that should be called homeschooling? Â The second paragraph he has a point. That would be copyright infringement, wouldn't it? That is something he could, and should, address and try to stop. But, that has nothing to do with people writing supplemental materials for children's books that happen to appear on a certain curriculums list. Â I will say that at one point I was interested in FIAR but didn't want to purchase the manuals without seeing them and they weren't available at my library. In all my online searching, I never found anyplace that had any portion of the books online. I did eventually get the manual through State-wide ILL and am glad I did because I found that it wasn't something that would work for my kids. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KungFuPanda Posted November 15, 2011 Share Posted November 15, 2011 I understand your point, but I still don't think it's a good idea for him to assume homeschoolers are incapable of figuring out the difference. Even if someone was initially confused, ten minutes on any board would straighten them out. I'm wondering if there is even one person who tragically 'misused' the books and labored for years under the dillusion that her children were doing FIAR without ever learning the manuals existed. Â I'm probably just annoyed by the tone of the letter, but when it comes down to it, FIAR is, itself, a 'one-off product.' He can claim no ownership over the picture books OR the concept of unit studies. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Murmer Posted November 15, 2011 Share Posted November 15, 2011 They've already had another site I use, homeschool creations, take their stuff down as well. Â Is it really down? I was looking today and had 1 show up...their stuff is nothing like FIAR...its her own little thing using the same books but very little is directly attached to items in the BFIAR book. Sadness if she did have to remove it all. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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