college work: definition of a full course load. Am I thinking of this incorrectly?

[Halftime Hope]

ETA: thanks, everyone, for your input. Pretty much what I thought. Although some folks have valid reasons for taking 12 hours semesters, none of them are applicable to my student. And it's not that the student wanted to cut back that far, it's about the *perception* that anything above 12 was an overload for normal college-aged students. (I understand less hours if there is a disability, if one is working their way through, if one goes year round, is caring for a family, but none of those are the case.)

 

In this case, the student's merit aid is granted only during 8 long semesters. That drives many decisions.

 

 

 

Mini-rant (proceed at your own risk):

 

 

 

 

 

I really hate the definition of 12 credit hours (in a semester system) as a full course load. As far as I know (I don't know much), it looks like this might have been an invention of the federal government as a measuring tool for the purposes of dispensing financial aid and for writing (older) rules for eligibilty for dependent benefits and so on.

 

AFAIK, it has nothing to do with academic reality and getting student done with their college in 4 years, much less five. (If an average 4 year degree requires more than 130 credit hours, that would mean a student working at 12 hours per semester would need to plan on 11+ semesters.)

 

I keep explaining to my students that the definition *academically* of a full course-load is 15-16 hours, unless one is in engineering and working a co-op job, or perhaps music, or some other field (B.S. in nursing 3/2 programs, etc.) that are an expected exception to the normal four year degree.

 

This is particularly true when one considers that many merit scholarships are for $ for eight long semesters!

 

Gaah!

 

Am I thinking of this incorrectly?

 

Back story: for the first time last night, one of my kids mentioned that his/her 16 hour course-load this semester was too heavy, at "four more hours than full-time." I thought I had my kids thoroughly indoctrinated. I knew I should have discouraged that job in the enrollment svcs office last semester! (JK!) I feel like I'm going to have to deprogram my student now.

 

Someone help me out, please! Is there something I'm missing, or does common sense/real life trump the "bureaucratic rules" here?

Edited November 16, 2011 by Valerie(TX)

[Gwen in VA]

The most confusing thing about units (or "credits") is that different schools handle them differently.

 

* Ds attends a college where, the way the semesters are divided, a normal load is 12 credits and an "overload" requiring special permission from the dean is considered 15 or more credits.

 

* I attended a college where a normal load was 45 credits! (They just did the numbers differently. The credits supposedly include homework time -- we didn't work three times harder than the average student!)

 

* My dd is at a college with trimesters where 4 credits is a full load. (No credit is given for labs or any other consideration -- one class = 1 credit)

 

I think you are smart to just divide the credits required for graduation by the number of semesters to calculate a good course load. The college-to-college variation is too great to be able to come up with a standard rule.

[In The Great White North]

From http://www.dartmouth.edu/~reg/regulations/undergrad/charges.html

 

Tuition of thirteen thousand nine-hundred twelve dollars ($13,912) per term is charged each student for instruction, instructional facilities, and other services. Although this tuition charge covers the normal three-course load, students may, without permission or extra charge, elect a fourth course during each of three terms during their college career. After use of the three allowed four-course terms a supplementary charge of four thousand six-hundred thirty eight dollars ($4,638) will be assessed.

 

Note: Dartmouth is on a trimester system.

 

OTOH, Carnegie Mellon considers 5 courses to be a "normal" course-load and ds has 7 at USAFA.

[Sebastian (a lady)]

I think that your kids need to realize that "full load" represents a min threshold for the university's purposes, but not necessarily for the student's. For example, as a grad student, I met the full load requirement and that meant that I had to pay higher university fees, even for things I didn't use, like the health center (which wasn't even located at the facility where I took classes).

 

I had at least 15 credits every semester of my undergrad, with 21 most semesters (I had a double language minor) and even one semester with 23 credits (including both Russian and German and electrical engineering in addition to all of my English major classes).

 

IMHO, 15 is not a stretch at all and to go any lower means paying the college a lot more money and delaying graduation more than necessary.

[kiana]

A lot of people I knew would deliberately arrange their semesters so that that one "monster" course was in a 12-13 credit semester, even if it meant doing 17 every other semester. Others did 16 all their semesters and wound up only needing 10 in their last semester, but took 12 (and worked some extra hours).

 

I prefer having the flexibility and not having to *find* courses to take to hit 15.

 

That being said, I'd rather see it called 'minimum full-time load'.

[The Governess]

.

[Halftime Hope]

So 12 units per semester, especially if you aren't holding a job, seems like a pretty light load to me.

 

My issue is with the premise that 12 hours is a full semester-style load. A job is in a completely different, non-academic segment of a student's life. (At least it is for this student, with this major.)

 

Of course the rub comes that with taking two out of the six required lower division honors courses in one semester, a lab course, and another "project-oriented" course, 16 hours feels *very heavy*.

 

Add to that being an RA, involvement in Greek life, service projects, etc., life is very full. So my student isn't slacking but probably does need an "expectations" reality check.

 

Ironically, this came up in a conversation about studying to CLEP out of some rudimentary things. All in all, that is a plan I'm in agreement with.

 

Take only 12 and you'll never get anywhere!

Yup!

[Susan C.]

Ds (and now just accepted dd's) college considers 12 credits full time. But if you do that, it will take 5 years to complete your degree. Ds had to take 30 credits a year to keep his scholarship and finish in 4 years. He said a lot of his classmates that work appreciate the 12 hours being full time, in fact, ds was only one of a few taking 15 credits a semester.

 

You can end up with 17 a semester if math and science are in the courses, they are each 4 credits.

As others have said, 12 is the minimum to be considered a full time student. While 15-16 may be a more usual number, 12 allows a student to drop a class from a normal load without triggering loss of full time student status, which can cause loss of insurance, problems with student loans and other issues.

[laundrycrisis]

Making the full time requirement higher would cause all sorts of problems. I was working a part time job, and struggling in my courses because they did not come easily to me. There were a couple times when I had to drop a 5-hour course due to academic troubles, and dropping 5 hours caused me to go below 12, below the full time minimum. To avoid having to re-apply for admission the next semester, I had to go plead my case that I was only dropping one stinking class, just one that was worth a lot of hours, but would still be enrolled in 3 or 4 other classes, so I could get a one-semester pass to have less than 12 hours without a change in status. Huge pointless pain in the rear. IMO they should have the minimum for full time be by hours or number of classes.

[TravelingChris]

My dd did 13 credits this first semester. She was specifically recommended not do do 15 credits but I let her go from 12 to 13. As all her class grades are in the A range (whether they are A+, A or A-, she doesn't know yet), she will next semester have 15 or 16. SHe came in with a number of credits too and she will be taking 7 credits this summer. We don't expect her to be doing more summer course work any other years but this summer we will have her take two hard courses for her (Spanish and Calc) while living at home and getting fed better.

[Barbara H]

Maybe it is a good time to talk to the student about the idea that in some areas of life it may make sense to do the minimum required, but in others it will not. Because something is allowable doesn't mean it is a good choice for you. The minimum standard of being a citizen doesn't require you to be well informed, to vote, or to be involved in your community - but you really should do more than the minimum.

 

It depends a great deal on the individual student and on their needs. For many students with special needs the required minimum of 12 hours will be a stretch. Of course it makes sense to work with an advisor and make plans that fit their needs.

 

My son entered college with a lot of AP and college credit and a four year scholarship and he takes the minimum 12 hour load. One reason he chose this plan was to allow more freedom to take challenging courses, including graduate courses. It can be difficult to really do five or six harder courses justice. Fewer courses has allowed to some extent for a continuation of the homeschool lifestyle including independent study and a pursuit of a lot of interests too.

 

I agree students need to do the math and make a realistic plan!

[AngieW in Texas]

My dd's scholarship requires a minimum of 15 hours/semester. Also, there is no additional tuition charge for any hours beyond 15 at her university (so you pay the same amount of tuition for 15 hours as you do for 18).

 

She took 16 hours this semester. I have told her to sign up for 6 classes next semester instead of 5 so she can choose which one to drop in the census period (although she could keep all of them if she wanted to). I think maintaining her GPA is enough of a challenge that I'd rather she take 16 hours than 19 (because one of her classes is a lab science worth 4 credits).

 

I want her to clear it with her adviser first, but I can't imagine that her adviser would have any problem with this.

 

I know that the creative writing class that she signed up for this semester was not at all what she had thought it was going to be, but she couldn't drop it because then she would have dropped below her 15 hour minimum.

 

ETA:

Dh keeps encouraging her to take 6 classes/semester, but I don't think she'd be able to keep her grades up that way. She really needs to have just 15 hours (or maybe 16 hours if one class is 4 credits) so she can maintain the grades she needs for her scholarship.

 

Our middle dd would definitely do a lot better with just 12 hours instead of 15 because she gets stressed so easily. Both of our older girls are Aspies. I'm sure she'll need to take 15 hours because she ought to end up with the same scholarship that the oldest has.

 

Either way, with the credits they'll already have from the cc, they should be able to graduate in 3 years with 15 credit hours/semester or in 4 years with a fast track masters.

Edited November 16, 2011 by AngieW in Texas

[Candid]

Does it matter? By that I mean who's paying for these classes? If them (or combo them and aid), then they can do what they want within the guidelines established. On the other hand, if you are still pay for some or all of the classes then you can call the tune.

[mrbmom77]

I guess I'm a slacker. :) I only took 12 hours/semester. I also finished in 4 years. And worked for the first two and homeschooled two kids for the last two years. Most degrees at my university required 120 or so hours.

 

When I worked at the U the profs told me students should average 3 hours outside of class for every hour in class. 12 hour load = 48 hours total. Sounds like a full-time job to me.

[JFSinIL]

Ds is at a LAC with a trimester system - three courses (9 credits) a term is a full load - they can do four courses a term but not every term as if they go over 33 credits a year they get charged a lot more tuition. PE counts as a single credits, and a a few classes count as four credits. DS had 11 credits his first term since he had a PE and one of the four-credit Honors classes.

 

They need 120 credits to graduate. They can do 27 - 33 a year. Obviously kids need to do at least a few four-class terms to make that 120 in four years.

 

Each term, being only 10 weeks, has more class time and sheer work crammed into that time period than if it was a 15-week semester. So 3 - 4 classes is full time.

[Lolly]

For my dd, 12 hours is a full load. At that level, she is working almost constantly. She is getting great grades. Her counselor is urging her to take more hours next semester. I am discouraging it. He doesn't see how much effort she puts into each class or the time that it takes. She plans to take 9 hours over the summer, that will put her at 33 for the year. That is about the same as 16 hours each semester with the summer off.

[J-rap]

At my daughter's university, a full-load is 16; at least that's what the students there are expected to take, and are even required to take their first semester. My daughter regularly takes 17; this is not at all uncommon.

[cathmom]

I guess I'm a slacker. :) I only took 12 hours/semester. I also finished in 4 years. And worked for the first two and homeschooled two kids for the last two years. Most degrees at my university required 120 or so hours.

 

.

 

I don't know when you did this, but if you graduated in 4 years, how? 24 a year times 4 years is only 96 credits, well below 120.

 

My oldest son, who is currently a senior in college, wrote an editorial for his college newspaper on the racket that colleges have become in making it nearly impossible for students to finish in 4 years. This (the definition of fulltime student) was one of his pieces of supporting evidence. You will not graduate in 4 years as a 12 credit per semester student. They have also expanded General Education requirements, making them way more complicated, and have cut offerings, so that it's very difficult to get the classes you need in certain semesters. It is NOT in the college's best interests to have students graduate in four years, and that is something students should realize going in.

[mrbmom77]

I don't know when you did this, but if you graduated in 4 years, how? 24 a year times 4 years is only 96 credits, well below 120.

 

 

Graduated December 2010.

I also took summer classes. Two summer sessions, 1 class each session, 6 hours per summer. I know a lot of young people take summers off of school to work and save or go home, so that's not always an option.

 

ETA: Most people I had classes with did take summer courses. Maybe because most of us were locals, it was easier to do that?

Edited November 15, 2011 by mrbmom77

[cathmom]

Graduated December 2010.

I also took summer classes. Two summer sessions, 1 class each session, 6 hours per summer. I know a lot of young people take summers off of school to work and save or go home, so that's not always an option.

 

ETA: Most people I had classes with did take summer courses. Maybe because most of us were locals, it was easier to do that?

 

Summer sessions are very expensive. It's more cost-effective to take another class in the fall or spring usually.

[JFSinIL]

Summer sessions are very expensive. It's more cost-effective to take another class in the fall or spring usually.

 

Yup - my son's LAC would charge him oodles of money for a summer class as they do NOT apply any of his merit aid, etc. to summer session. They will not accept any courses he might take (basic ones) at the local cc over the summer, either.

[LittleIzumi]

Dh is taking about 12 credits per semester (working F/T also) but he also goes every summer nearly full-time. He saves some of his student loans (gets Pell Grants to pay for the fall/spring classes) to cover the summer cost. He should graduate on time.

[regentrude]

Summer sessions are very expensive. It's more cost-effective to take another class in the fall or spring usually.

 

Not necessarily. I am pretty sure that a four credit hour class at our university costs the same, whether you take it in the fall stretched out over 16 weeks, or in the summer, compressed to 8. Makes no difference. Same material, same credit, same tuition.

[cathmom]

Not necessarily. I am pretty sure that a four credit hour class at our university costs the same, whether you take it in the fall stretched out over 16 weeks, or in the summer, compressed to 8. Makes no difference. Same material, same credit, same tuition.

 

See JFS in IL's response.

 

It may cost the same on paper, but it's harder to do.

[Puma Mom]

I consider the amount of hours needed per semester to finish in 4 years (or 5 years for those majors where the school considers 5 years to be the normal length of time) to be a full load. For my business major ds, that is 15 hours most semesters, 17-18 for maybe 1-2 semesters. He has to have 60 hours to be considered a junior, so that's 15 hrs/semester.

 

My CS student needs 15-18 hrs/semester to graduate in 4 years. He is one of those special needs students who we've determined does better taking 9 hrs/semester and working part-time. But he's living at home, so he has that luxury.

[TravelingChris]

Well for my dd, she will be a sophomore next semester so I think she will already have at least 24 credits by the end of this semester. (She got credits for AP, CC, and high score on ACT followed by a subsequent passing grade on a higher course). At her school, I think with scholarships like she has, you have to get special permission to go over 15. Depending on what she gets next semester- she is on a waiting list for a one credit course, she will either have 15 or 16. I got her to sign up for private vocal lessons which I know I have to pay extra but I thought it was a good way for her to get an extra credit. Without that class or another one credit, she would only be at 14. She is taking four regular classes- three credits each, then one two credit research class or work, one credit vocal lessons and possibly a one credit honors seminar, if she gets in. There was no way she could take five regular classes because she will be working on the research probably 10-15 hours a week. The math will take her a long time too. Then she has one other class that may be hard- Honors econ, plus two really easy ones- Psychology of Adjustment and Intro to Criminal Justice. My daughter is not a fast reader and math takes her a long time so that will be a lot for her.

[distancia]

I would rather my DD take 4 classes per semester (anywhere from 12 to 14 credit hours) and pick up the slack with summer classes. Here in Florida summer sessions are 7 weeks each, so a student can do 2 classes (6 hours) in one session, and still have 7 weeks of "free time".

 

For DD, slow and steady works much better. She is almost compulsively thorough in learning the material; she is not one who skims quickly, memorizes, and dumps her brain after the exam. OTOH, her cousin takes at least 16 credit hours per semester, does the drill-and-dump routine, and remembers nothing. Each to their own, I guess.

 

I agree with what others have said, with Gen Ed requirements being increased to the point where it's nearly impossible for students to graduate in 4 years.

[8filltheheart]

I would rather my DD take 4 classes per semester (anywhere from 12 to 14 credit hours) and pick up the slack with summer classes. Here in Florida summer sessions are 7 weeks each, so a student can do 2 classes (6 hours) in one session, and still have 7 weeks of "free time".

 

For DD, slow and steady works much better. She is almost compulsively thorough in learning the material; she is not one who skims quickly, memorizes, and dumps her brain after the exam. OTOH, her cousin takes at least 16 credit hours per semester, does the drill-and-dump routine, and remembers nothing. Each to their own, I guess.

 

I agree with what others have said, with Gen Ed requirements being increased to the point where it's nearly impossible for students to graduate in 4 years.

 

 

:confused: How is taking a full-semester course crammed into 7 weeks helpful for someone who learns slow and steady? I would think that students that need a slow pace would find 1/4 systems and summer school too intense.

 

I also disagree w/the idea that students can't graduate in 4 yrs. Our oldest managed to graduate in 4 yrs even w/co-oping for 12 straight months. He had 18 dual enrollment hrs, but only 15 counted toward his graduation credits. So, if you include that semester's worth of the credits, he completed all of his coursework for his chemE degree in 7 semesters.

[Halftime Hope]

:confused: How is taking a full-semester course crammed into 7 weeks helpful for someone who learns slow and steady? I would think that students that need a slow pace would find 1/4 systems and summer school too intense.

 

I also disagree w/the idea that students can't graduate in 4 yrs. Our oldest managed to graduate in 4 yrs even w/co-oping for 12 straight months. He had 18 dual enrollment hrs, but only 15 counted toward his graduation credits. So, if you include that semester's worth of the credits, he completed all of his coursework for his chemE degree in 7 semesters.

 

8, that is our premise, that w dd going to a small LAC, there is no reason why she can't finish in 8 semesters. (Not that she wanted to do anything longer---she'll be ready for a wider world.) If she wants to pay her own tuition for summer CC or summer classes at the LAC, she can, but with 24 hours going in, she'll be able to do a full double major (146 hours) in the 8 semesters. Those hours going in free her up to take everything she wants to complete the two majors and the required honors minor.

 

We are told that it is becoming very difficult at the two flagship schools in state to complete some majors in 4 years. Depending on your living arrangements and work, it may not really matter financially. But the state is giving $ incentives for those who finish on time without a bunch of extra hours.

[memphispeg]

My dd will graduate in 4 yrs. from an LAC. She takes 4 - 6 classes a semester (some are just 1/2 credit - dance). She could graduate earlier but wants a major and minor and thesis. 4 yrs. will be quite enough for her as LAC is small and in a small town and she will be wanting to move on. There were no real core courses. She has always taken what she wanted to.

[Barbara H]

So, if you include that semester's worth of the credits, he completed all of his coursework for his chemE degree in 7 semesters.

 

If this is too personal feel free not to answer but just out of curiosity, may I ask what level math he had taken prior to college and how much foreign language he'd completed before college. The students I'm seeing who are really in trouble with engineering requirements often went to high school in districts without great math offerings. So, they are coming to college with catching up to do. For homeschoolers if there are able to get foreign language completed, take calc - preferably thorugh calc II or AP-BC calc, maybe take an AP science, they are in really good shape.

[Dmmetler]

You also have to look at the number of actual hours a class takes. In music, it's pretty typical to have 5 hour a week 1 credit hour classes, and require several hours a day of outside practice. I recommend that my students schedule no more than 15 credit hours-but 15 credit hours for a music major can easily be 30+ hours a week in class and another 45 a week of expected outside homework and practice time. The student who was in orchestra, show choir, concert choir, jazz band, and took piano, voice and flute lessons in high school (and was able to get all her academics done in class and during study hall) often crashes and burns in college when she tries to do the same, because those 9 credit hours of academic classes actually require outside work.

 

The kids who struggle the most are often the ones who have a lot of AP and dual enrollment credits, and who therefore are juggling not only college level performance expectations, but upper division coursework from the first semester.