Sonlight and WTM

[lil' maids in a row]

I have a kindergartener and a preschooler. I am torn between following WTM and continuing with Sonlight (we have used it for preschool and now kindergarten).

 

Two ideas I'm playing with are...

doing Sonlight until 5th grade (1-4 sonlight cores cover all of world history and american history). Then moving into more of a WTM curriculum and a traditional 4 year history cycle for 5-12.

 

Or, using Sonlight for history and reading and following the suggestions in WTM for the other subjects.

 

Does anyone else combine these two curriculum. Are you successful. Can sonlight's core be part of a classical education. As you can see, I'm just starting out so any thoughts would be helpful.

 

Thank you,

ML

[Whereneverever]

Some of it will depend on how you define classical education. The WTM is more neoclassical then classical, IMO.

 

I'm using Sonlight after using WTM almost exactly for pre-K-2nd. I think there's a lot of flexibility and ultimately you are best off looking at how you and your family want to learn.

 

Why are you thinking of switching? Are you enjoying what you are doing right now?

[Hen]

I've used Sonlight off and on, but I'm pretty happy with how we are using it now. I use it for History and reading. I like that some of the cores use Story of the World, and even the cores that don't- I will usually use the activity book with it, I think her maps are better.

 

I think doing both is doable, it's all about using the materials to serve your homeschool. I use Sonlight for history and reading, and then use Writing with Ease for writing, different Grammar, different Science... I did try using their LA for a bit, I liked it- it works with the way I think, but I needed something more classical, more of a concrete 'plan' that I could see. I don't know if that makes sense, but the LA seemed more "intuitive" which does appeal to me, but left me wondering where we were going, direction-wise.

[serendipitous journey]

I used sonlight core A for some of Button's K, and just ordered core B for our first grade. We'll be using their history, readers/read-alouds, and their science; we'll supplement with history with SOTW, the Eggleston history book Stories of Great Americans for Little Americans and probably Synge's On the Shores of the Great Sea; our math is MathUSee and Life of Fred; we do Reading Pathways for phonics right now; Growing with Grammar; Writing with Ease; Getty Dubay Italics for handwriting; All About Spelling too. So we are going with your second option, with the exception of not following WTMs science.

 

If you want a more WTM science, and like having some/all of the scheduling and brainstorming and other legwork done for you, may I suggest you look at the sample pages from Easy Classical's science? I think it is very close to what WTM science ought to be: it follows the suggested divisions, is systematic, rigorous, and seems like a lot of fun so the child will learn to love the subject. Easy Classical is creationist and I myself am not, but may still incorporate their science. You might like to look at their complete and/or history schedules too. Easy Classical takes an approach to history that is too centered on Bible stories for our homeschool (you see this mainly in Ancients, I think), and they don't use my preferred grammar, etc, but they are worth a look for WTM scheduling. If their theology suits it seems like a marvelous option.

 

If you use Sonlight straight-up, as you listed in your first option, you may want to consider carefully whether their Language Arts meets your goals. A search of Sonlight threads shows that WTMers are consistently unsatisfied with Sonlight's LA (but SL's somewhat-recent changes may have addressed this). People do seem generally very happy with Sonlight's science, with the only downside I've heard being one particular child who didn't retain much. This you could address with memory work, of course.

 

To keep things WTM-ish I've ordered the memory-work book Living Memory (by Plaid Dad, who posts on these boards). I'm also reading poetry out loud regularly, usually at snack or lunch, roughly following Ambleside Online's poetry suggestions because it seems that if you don't keep boys in poetry from the start most of them never like it much (notable exception of limericks ;)). Sometimes we lighten the poetry up with Shel Silverstein and/or something like Douglas Florian's Comets, Stars, the Moon and Mars. You could add the audiobook version of Story of the World, read by Jim Weiss, to your routine fairly easily I think and it would augment much of Sonlight's early World History. Finally, I plan to merge the WTM notebook organization & the periodic notebook review with our Sonlight history work but haven't set this up yet.

 

In case it is helpful to some thread-browser, let me say why I'm using Sonlight and share some helpful ideas I've come across. My DS Button is precocious and very temperamental. While I was trying to follow WTM suggestions straight-up I found myself getting depressed, and realized that when Button is in one of his Difficult Phases it is hard for me to see that my homeschooling goals are being met. He doesn't love his work or what I'm teaching him; he's sulky and rude (often -- I don't accept this behavior and am working on it but it is a reality) and when I pour so much into finding his supplementary books (a la WTM suggestions) and he's so unappreciative, it is not a healthy scene (meaning, I cry a lot at poor DH). If Button were content to play all day I'd just do the basics for first grade, but he does best when kept quite busy and once he's learned something he uses it and seems to really benefit. So I thought that what will help me parent gracefully, and stay content in myself even when Button is challenging and unhappy about school, is to have concrete, educational, kid-friendly tasks for all his subjects. Then we can just move through them and if he doesn't like it at the moment I won't be taking things personally. -- of course if he truly detests something for a sustained amount of time I try to eliminate or adjust it.

 

By 5th grade I plan to transition to Tapestry of Grace, probably merging it with WTM to whatever degree seems suitable. Both TOG and Veritas Press seem to have a depth to their materials that would significantly boost my teaching of the upper years and the Great Books they include. I knew Veritas Press omnibus wouldn't work for me, theologically, but learned that the instructional materials for the early years are strongly providential (meaning, focused on history as something that God has wrought vs. something that humans are muddling through, and which God redeems as possible through those humans who allow Him to work through them). I hope someone will correct me if I have muddled that. At any rate, the scholar's plans were unusable for me personally. So I then looked at the TOG samples and fell in love!!! I was torn btw. Sonlight and TOG for the early years, and especially for this season of challenges with Button: Sonlight's daily scheduling is a plus right now, but I'd prefer not to use an encyclopedia as a history spine. However this old thread convinced me that Sonlight gives the best chance of keeping Button loving learning until he's matured past our current conflicts (seems to happen 'round 8yo for similar children). -- I am _not_ saying that Sonlight's the best generally, but that I think it will help me meet my goals in my situation. Hope I'm right!

Edited November 13, 2011 by serendipitous journey
clarity.

[lil' maids in a row]

Thank you so much for your responses. Now I've got even more to think about ;). Thank you!

 

ML

[ByGrace3]

I have been torn with this decision as well. Next year we will either use SL core C or Biblioplan Middle Ages. I really like the look of SL D and SL E so thinking ahead, I also thought do SL until 5th and then start the 4 year cycle. However Biblioplan uses a lot of SL books, so I have decided I am going to try to get my hands on CHOW and then decide this way, CHOW vs SOTW. Whichever we choose, we will be using WTM writing and language arts recs. If we did SL, it would only be for history/geography/list

[Willow Creek Academy]

I am in the same place you are. Trying to decide on P4/5 (or Core A) or something more WTM. I am very torn right now, although I am leaning towards SL and committing to stick with it for at least 5 years.

[serendipitous journey]

... :blushing:

Having written that huge post above (just trying to be transparent and helpful, _not_ trying to blab on and on!) I feel sort of morally obligated to share that, having ordered Sonlight B, I was depressed all last night and today until I e-mailed to cancel it. Sigh. It makes perfect sense to my head, but isn't what I want to teach: I didn't realize how bugged I am by the IG, with pages from different books each day and the history encyclopedia spine ... I hope Button and I don't drive each other batty before I have it all figured out.

 

more :blushing:

 

ps: at least all the _other_ stuff, incl. poetry and living memory, will stay the same ...

Edited November 14, 2011 by serendipitous journey
ps

[Willow Creek Academy]

... :blushing:

Having written that huge post above (just trying to be transparent and helpful, _not_ trying to blab on and on!) I feel sort of morally obligated to share that, having ordered Sonlight B, I was depressed all last night and today until I e-mailed to cancel it. Sigh. It makes perfect sense to my head, but isn't what I want to teach: I didn't realize how bugged I am by the IG, with pages from different books each day and the history encyclopedia spine ... I hope Button and I don't drive each other batty before I have it all figured out.

 

more :blushing:

 

ps: at least all the _other_ stuff, incl. poetry and living memory, will stay the same ...

 

That is my concern. That it will be too choppy for Little Man and for me. I know I don't want to do CLE again since I did it with the Olders (except maybe math) and I want a living books feel. Without having a course charted for me, though, I am scared out of my mind. But I would hate to order SL and regret it because it's all over the place.

[Kathryn]

My plan at the moment is to use Sonlight through 8th grade like this:

1 - Core A (World History/Cultures Overview)

2 - Core B (World History 1)

3 - Core C (World History 2)

4 - Cores D and E (American History 1 and 2)

5 - Core F (Eastern Hemisphere Culture/Geography)

6 - Core G (World History 1)

7 - Core H (World History 2)

8 - Core 100 (American History)

 

As you can see, though it's not a 4-year sweep, there is a 4-year "cycle" to it this way of culture, world history 1 and 2, American history. I do add in a lot of reading from our shelves and the library, but I love the selections that Sonlight provides and love the ease of use of the IG.

 

I'm not sure yet what we'll do in high school, but unless there are some major changes, it won't be Sonlight. I don't know if we'll do a full four-year sweep through world history at that point either. How do people reconcile that with requirements for courses in American history and American government/economics? I figure high school will be either a 4-year sweep, a 3-year sweep with gov/econ in 12th, a 3-year sweep with gov/econ AND American history in 12th, or a 2-year sweep with American history in 11th and gov/econ in 12th.

[Kathryn]

I'll also say that we've been using Sonlight's LA, though I've never been really happy with it. Now, halfway through LA for Grade 2 (we're currently in week 17), we're switching. It may work for some children, but it doesn't work for mine. He's not retaining anything grammar-wise, and the emphasis on creative writing at such a young age (and with my son having high-functioning autism) makes him feel like a failure. The grammar component, at least up to now, has been once a week and seemingly entirely random. There's no rhyme or reason as to when a particular grammar subject shows up or is reviewed. What you get with Sonlight's LA in the early years are weekly spelling lists (which very few people use), a schedule for Explode the Code, a schedule for the Readers (which can be bought separately and then will include comprehension questions), copywork on Monday, a grammar lesson on Tuesday, creative writing on Wednesday and Thursday (usually outlining/brainstorming the first day and writing the second), and an optional activity (usually writing) on Friday.

 

For LA, we'll be continuing with Sonlight's Readers, Explode the Code, Handwriting Without Tears, and All About Spelling, and are waiting for Growing With Grammar, Winning With Writing, and Writing With Ease to arrive.

 

We use the science as well, and while I'm not 100% excited about it, I like the variety of topics to which we'll be introduced throughout the elementary years. If there's something he's particularly interested in, we might do a more in-depth study with another program at that point. But, for now, I'm okay with the science.

[Professormom]

Each year that we have used Sonlight, I have waffled because TWM lines up so well with our family's education philosophy and the way that I think. What I ended up doing is that we used Sonlight from the beginning (k4) through 4th grade with the older. Then, in 5th, I am following ToG because of the more rigorous analysis as well as the four year cycle. However, I realized that doing ToG doesn't preclude using Sonlight, so I am using the Sonlight Core H books that apply to ToG year one. For my dd8, I will be pulling out all of the great books from Sonlight Core A (formerly Core 1). So, one will be dialectic and one upper grammar. TWTM is more of a philosophy, and tog lines up with it nicely... History Odyssey does as well.

 

The big thing for our family came down to the books. The book are why I will probably never give up on Sonlight. ToG's book are fine, but they are still not Sonlight, and even though I am making changes now, I can honestly say that I do not regret using Sonlight exclusively for the grammar years. The books not only keep them engaged in history, but they also give them examples of how to act with civility and grace. Especially now that they are growing up a bit, I see the payoff from those books everyday in their interactions with us and with those outside of our family.

 

Wow, sorry for the book! I guess I had more to say on that than I thought!:tongue_smilie:

[Mom0012]

We've used SL since Pre-K and next year we'll be starting Core F. I am planning on integrating some of the ideas for the logic stage from the TWTM for cores F and G and have been studying the TWTM to figure out how to do this. So far, I am going to use the summarizing and outlining ideas SWB mentions as well as purchasing some of the Jackdaw Portfolios. I am also planning to have my kids do timelines SWB's way as well as follow her ideas on mapping. We will be doing this at double pace because we'll be covering history basically from the ancients to modern times in two years, but I am really hoping I will be able to pull it off.

 

I think you can use SL in the early years and then add in FLL and WWE as well as math and spelling have a really good mix.

 

Lisa