s/o talking to kids about "inappropriate touching"

[Halcyon]

We're going to have a more formal, sit-down talk with our boys this weekend. Any suggestions on how to approach this without engendering fear? FWIW, we are a very frank family when it comes to sexual topics. Both boys have learned about sex, reproduction, childbirth, homosexuality and transgender identity. But when it comes to the admixture of sex, aggression, and the power of adults acting inappropriately towards children, we need to cover some ground. I do think both our children would not hesitate to talk to us if they felt something was "wrong", but I do worry (particularly about my oldest) about his desire to please others, particularly adults.

 

Thank you.

Edited November 11, 2011 by Halcyon

[Denisemomof4]

I learned about this book here:

 

http://www.amazon.com/Protecting-Gift-Keeping-Children-Teenagers/dp/0440509009

 

I haven't read it yet but will talk to dd's once I do.

[Raini]

Here's an article from Kidpower about teaching personal safety to kids.

 

http://www.kidpower.org/resources/articles/safety-tips-sexual-abuse.html

[kalanamak]

FYI, I did what I thought was a very gentle "stranger danger" talk with my not-a-fear-in-the-world-never-any-stranger-fear-even-when-a-toddler guy, and suddenly he didn't want to be out of our sight. It took a YEAR for that to wear off. I finally had to ORDER him to play outside without one of us right there.

 

I was not graphic, it is just that he didn't know evil existed. :001_huh:

[Alte Veste Academy]

FYI, I did what I thought was a very gentle "stranger danger" talk with my not-a-fear-in-the-world-never-any-stranger-fear-even-when-a-toddler guy, and suddenly he didn't want to be out of our sight. It took a YEAR for that to wear off. I finally had to ORDER him to play outside without one of us right there.

 

I was not graphic, it is just that he didn't know evil existed. :001_huh:

 

I had a similar experience here. It can be a hard line to walk. You want to keep them safe but let them keep their innocence too. The idea of having to explain rape to my children one day turns my stomach.

 

I've got one kid who would ask permission to leave the house with a fully outfitted firefighter in a four alarm blaze and two kids who would happily walk off with the proverbial kidnapper handing out candy and looking for his puppy. This is despite the fact that they've all heard the same talk from DH and me.

 

I do worry (particularly about my oldest) about his desire to please others, particularly adults.

 

I've got one of those too but in a rare bit of luck where personality quirks are concerned, his skepticism and cautious nature counteract his lack of assertiveness on the stranger danger front. :lol:

 

I'm :bigear: for those who feel they've handled it well. I think I'll be buying Protecting the Gift too.

[redsquirrel]

I used to do this for a living. First of all, it is going to need to be more than one discussion. I say have two points that you want to get across and work backward. If they remember the two then you are doing great.

 

When talking to parents I would stress that you want them to know that you will believe them and help them. Kids sometimes get abused when they were doing something they shouldn't do, like sneak out. And abusers often tempt kids to doing something wrong (like take a puff of a cigarette, or watch an R rated movie) in order to 'trap' them into not talking.

 

So, I tell my kids that I will always believe them and help them. That no one who is their friend (adult or kid) will ever, ever tell them to keep a secret from their parents. I have used words like "good adults." As in "a good adult knows that kids don't keep secrets from their parents. All adults know this rule so if an adult asks you to keep a secret from me or your dad tell us as soon as you can." And we have covered the idea of a good secret and a bad secret. A good secret is happy. It makes you feel good inside. A bad secret makes you feel confused or uncomfortable.

 

I fully acknowledge that the term 'good adult' may not be great. But, I was grasping for words and it worked for my kid.

 

 

One of the most important thing to get across is that strangers are not the problem. It is a hard thing to tell them, but it is very important they know. To put it in perspective, for 10 years I was the advocate for every single disclosed case of sexual abuse in my county. Every single case for any youth age 18 and under. I met hundreds of kids over 10 years. No ONE of those cases involved a stranger. Zero. They were all known to the child/family in some way.

 

I think that can be addressed by reiterating that you will believe them no matter what or who.

[Mergath]

I talk to my dd about this regularly, in small, easy-to-take bites. I basically just tell her that, sort of how some people are sick in the body, other people are sick in their minds and it makes them do things they shouldn't, and some of them try to touch people inappropriately. She knows that if anyone tries to touch her private parts, she needs to run away and yell for help.

 

We don't try to present it as evil people out in the world just waiting to try to hurt her, but more as people who are very sick and need to get help so they don't hurt people.

[eternalknot]

We're also a frank family, and our kids are intimately familiar with homosexuality and transgender identity (as well as well-versed in sex, reproduction and childbirth - there's always someone pregnant, and we live in close quarters LOL). Like your kids, I'm fairly positive my kids would come talk with me ... but on the off-chance this is something too big, I've given them other resources.

 

My concern isn't so much that they'd fear telling me, but that they'd see it as not wanting to BURDEN me with a problem of that magnitude (if that makes sense? It'd be like not telling me would be their way of protecting me.) So I'd make sure they knew there were other trusted adults they could/should go to if they were confused or concerned, and that you would be way okay with them confiding in this/these other adults (as well as trusting of this/these adults to guide them). For me, I'd expect this other adult to alert me right away but I didn't necessarily want my child to know of this expectation -- that'd interfere with the kid's desire to protect me from the situation, you know? Then that other adult's purpose is moot (from the kid's POV).

 

Another resource might be a kid book on body changing. Something they can have a hard copy to refer to with any questions they may have about the appropriateness (or inappropriateness) of a situation. You could leave it in a common area, or maybe in a not so common area (like one of the bathroom cabinets) - just so that they always know where to find it if they have any desire or need to look through it. Most of those books have pages about inappropriate touch, as well as steps to take if it happens. It might serve as a needed confirmation that something is off, in a child who is unsure or worried about upsetting family. Just read through it as a family, then show them where you're leaving the book copy.

 

Family culture matters, too. It's important to walk the walk, and that takes an investment in time. You can't say "You can come to me with anything, I'll believe you" if your actions consistently indicate otherwise. I had a friend who told her kids to call her if they were every drinking and she'd pick them up without question. She did as she had promised, but then she held the drinking against them (grounded them, rather than use the incident as a discussion point). Do you think they called the next time? Nope. It's not always a big deal; the consistency comes through in the small, daily stuff. Kids pick up on nonverbal clues and insights way more than they're given credit for.

 

I have a people-pleaser, too. We work on that. When he's doing it TO ME we work on it. We actively and regularly discuss the difference between pleasing someone and steamrolling ourselves for someone else's sole benefit. It's something I imagine we'll work on forever, because it will manifest itself differently at various levels of maturity. It's about regular questioning: Why am I doing x? How do I feel when I'm doing x? How do I feel about the reaction Q gives me when I do x for her? (And overall examination of self, which can be heavy for a kid but doesn't have to be!) It's about giving the kid some tools to work with. I think some kids' personalities lend them to fall prey to a kind of Stockholm Syndrome -- these kids in particular need to have the tools that separate their emotion from their decision-making. This would especially be true for a people-pleasing kid experiencing abuse.

 

Finally, I think you have to empower the kid to trust his gut. Another trait that will develop over time. What we call intuition, I grew up understanding that a family spirit was guiding me. My kids are Catholic, so I call their intuition a voice from God, Mary, the saints, or whomever they want to believe is guiding them. I don't know why but I -as a kid- and my kids both feel better somehow about trusting someone else. Just calling "intuition" and "gut" by a different name -and by giving it a face- makes it more kid-friendly, I think. I could trust my dead grandfather's spirit where I may have been to afraid to trust my "gut," if that makes any sense.

Edited November 11, 2011 by eternalknot

[i.love.lucy]

I used to do this for a living. First of all, it is going to need to be more than one discussion. I say have two points that you want to get across and work backward. If they remember the two then you are doing great.

 

When talking to parents I would stress that you want them to know that you will believe them and help them. Kids sometimes get abused when they were doing something they shouldn't do, like sneak out. And abusers often tempt kids to doing something wrong (like take a puff of a cigarette, or watch an R rated movie) in order to 'trap' them into not talking.

 

So, I tell my kids that I will always believe them and help them. That no one who is their friend (adult or kid) will ever, ever tell them to keep a secret from their parents. I have used words like "good adults." As in "a good adult knows that kids don't keep secrets from their parents. All adults know this rule so if an adult asks you to keep a secret from me or your dad tell us as soon as you can." And we have covered the idea of a good secret and a bad secret. A good secret is happy. It makes you feel good inside. A bad secret makes you feel confused or uncomfortable.

 

I fully acknowledge that the term 'good adult' may not be great. But, I was grasping for words and it worked for my kid.

 

 

One of the most important thing to get across is that strangers are not the problem. It is a hard thing to tell them, but it is very important they know. To put it in perspective, for 10 years I was the advocate for every single disclosed case of sexual abuse in my county. Every single case for any youth age 18 and under. I met hundreds of kids over 10 years. No ONE of those cases involved a stranger. Zero. They were all known to the child/family in some way.

 

I think that can be addressed by reiterating that you will believe them no matter what or who.

Good points, thanks.

[JennyD]

. To put it in perspective, for 10 years I was the advocate for every single disclosed case of sexual abuse in my county. Every single case for any youth age 18 and under. I met hundreds of kids over 10 years. No ONE of those cases involved a stranger. Zero. They were all known to the child/family in some way.

 

.

 

Wow. I mean, I've read the statistics, but still, this really drives it home.

[LibraryLover]

I've never done the 'sit down' talk. I think that's too scary. I've done it over the years, gently, with 'hey, listen to this " stories and anecdotes, while driving in the car, feeding chickens etc.

[redsquirrel]

Wow. I mean, I've read the statistics, but still, this really drives it home.

 

It does, doesn't it? I was asked at a public forum and the answer surprised even me.

 

To be clear, it wasn't always a family best friend. Often it was someone that you wouldn't really think about. The son or husband of the daycare provider, the new boyfriend of the oldest daughter, the college roomate of the brother who visits over vacation, the aunt's boyfriend, dad's girlfriend's brother. Yes, there was also fathers and stepfathers and brothers and father's of the best friend, but it is the people on the periphery with access that can slip by your radar.

 

DP and I have a rule that our kids only visit other people's houses if we have meet all the adults who will be there. If plans change and there will be other adults present, then we need to know about it. Now that my eldest is 11 I worry about it less. He is more able to participate in discussions about these matters. When he was younger I was much more worried about what he couldn't verbalize.

[Alte Veste Academy]

I like this.

 

Reading the 23-page grand jury report, I was struck by the textbook "grooming' Sandusky employed. The boys (now young men) reported feeling uncomfortable or weird about the touching and tickling, etc.

 

I want my boys to know that this feeling--this confusion or discomfort--is a big clue that something isn't right. I want them to be able to recognize it, acknowledge it, say it out loud to whoever is causing the distress, and then talk to me about it.

 

It's a crappy conversation to think about having. Potentially worse not to have it though.

 

:iagree:

 

I will never forget seeing Gavin de Becker talk about humans ignoring their instinctive discomfort with different situations. He said we're the only species that will sense danger and not run for fear of insulting or hurting someone's feelings. The antelope isn't worried about hurting the feelings of nearby animals if she runs after smelling something off or feeling the slightest sense of discomfort. She's just interested in self-preservation. By comparison, humans are far too influenced by thoughts of others' feelings and some pay for it dearly. So, yes, I want my kids to get that their feelings of comfort are paramount.

[nono]

I have been stressing context to my children since the beginning of our time together. Act normal in normal circumstances. If a situation is off, don't act normally! I give them permission on an ongoing basis to act out if they feel something is wrong. It's OK to lie or use other methods to protect oneself.

 

Long, somewhat dull story showing this in action:

 

In addition to our brief sit down talk yesterday, we also had an incident the evening before in a public bathroom, which helped (and distracted) our talk yesterday. We were in a small public bathroom (3 stalls). The bathroom opened to an outside shopping center. It was dark out and the center was fairly deserted. We took stalls 2 & 3, and after passing stall 1 to get to the sinks, I saw my dd's "Spidey sense" kick in. I thought I sensed someone in stall 1, and looked underneath -- no feet down. I have near bionic hearing, and as the water in the sink started running, I heard a little movement in the stall. Now, I'm a stickler about 30 seconds of good soaping...and I'm starting to see RED. I look at my dd, and say, "Come on and hurry up. The men are waiting just outside for us!" (One is a man, and one's 4. :lol: )

 

Luckily, she didn't turn around and say, "Men?" or something, and we got out the door. I debriefed her, but she's all about trying to understand her sensing right now, which makes these conversations a bit trying for me. :) Anyway, like Eternalknot says, we have to walk the walk. So, we stopped in one of the stores and asked them to call security to check on the bathroom, because there seemed to be a person hiding in the first stall. The woman gladly made the call.

 

Now, I also pointed out that it could have been the lady responsible for cleaning up the joint hiding from her supervisor, or a homeless person trying to get locked in for the night, etc. I try to show how we just don't know, and there are lots of other possible reasons for the situtation. Regardless, it's NOT normal, and therefore, our job is to act abnormally. :)

 

Oh and my dd pointed out something interesting about doing that. She noted, "When we acted not normal, we saved the bad guy from doing a bad thing." (Which leads back to my talks about how bad people aren't being bad 100% of the time, so I guess they do listen).

[Pamela H in Texas]

We have three new children. They have a rough past (at best). I got the books, I said No! and The Right Touch to help me talk with them a couple different ways (on top of what we do naturally and what they do in therapy with anatomically correct dolls).

 

I think the two books are very helpful without encouraging fear.

 

One of my new sons is a people pleaser. He *has* done things he knows is wrong that he knows is wrong because an adult was leading. He didn't even need convincing. He simply will do what they lead, not argue it at all.

 

And we are in a weird place with the other boy. He won't do ANYTHING most adults tell him to do (and will do exactly what you tell someone- him or someone else- not to do). So obviously this is behavior we have to work with and yet you don't want him to go the other direction and be submissive to adults to the point he could be harmed.

 

Anyway, so hopefully we can keep a dialogue open here in terms of this topic. I most certainly use the books to help in that way.

[inmyopinion]

re: secrets, we had a police officer speak to our co-op one year and he said that a good secret is something that will be told soon, like a gift for someone's birthday or a surprise party but a bad secret is one which will never be told.

I thought that was a good way to explain it.

 

We tell our kids that they are never going to be in trouble for tattling on an adult.