Jennefer@SSA Posted November 10, 2011 Share Posted November 10, 2011 Just to give background, before starting WWE 4 Ds10 completed WT1 in fourth grade. He also did SOTW 4 last year including all outlining and writing. He did very well with WT1 and I bought WT2 but since the author isn't going to be able to produce new levels I decided to make the switch to another program now. I really like the approach of WWE/WWS better than WT and we jumped right in. Enter WWS Level 1. We started it at the start of this year but quickly realized it was far beyond Ds10's ability. Oh, I should add he is an Aspie; I only add that because I know that writing tends to be a particular challenge for ASD kiddos. We backed up to WWE Level 4. Today for Week 9, Day 4 the dictation was: Lowell believed that the canals are the work of intelligent beings. These canals must have a width of about thirty miles in order to be visible to us on earth. The directions say to tell the child that you will only read the sentences three times before asking him to write and will not repeat them afterwards. After three times he didn't even have the first sentence down, even with single word prompts. He tends to take the words and change them up and then his way is stuck in his head, not the given way. Usually it means almost the same thing - sometimes not so much. Just to see how many times it would take I continued repeating until he could say these two short sentences perfectly. It took twenty-three repetitions. :( Now granted today was very excessive but his not being able to hold these sentences long enough to repeat them back immediately not to mention get them onto paper is a huge issue. Now this is the same child who can watch a car commercial and then turn around and quote the entire commercial verbatim after hearing it only one time. Can anyone give advice? I am so discouraged. I do not know what to do to help him improve on this skill. Thanks in advance Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wapiti Posted November 10, 2011 Share Posted November 10, 2011 For one thing, I might separate the narration skills from the dictation skills - they are two different things. One could still move forward with WWS while continuing dictation on the side. Or, within WWE, the dictations and narrations need not come from the same lesson. FWIW, we kind of skipped WW4. Dd did a bit of it. A few of the early passages in WWS were a struggle, but we are in Week 10 now and dd is doing well. Dd has had language processing problems but not a working memory issue (still, the longer dictations were a bit much :tongue_smilie:) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Melis Posted November 10, 2011 Share Posted November 10, 2011 Hello :) This is tough one. I almost always have to repeat dictation sentences... too many times to count. I just do it. Honestly, *I* can't even remember the sentences :O In fact, my memory is HORRIBLE with stuff like this... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WeeBeaks Posted November 10, 2011 Share Posted November 10, 2011 I have frankly changed many of the dictation passages into copywork. My DS can repeat the theme but not word for word. If he was taking notes in a classroom, his note taking would have gotten the point. IMHO, some of the passages are just too long and complex. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hollyhock Posted November 10, 2011 Share Posted November 10, 2011 My 9yo is currently doing WWE 4. In your situation, I would probably pick a different sentence. It could be the same length, but some sentences are easier to remember than others. So I would just try another. Or, I would just repeat it as many times as necessary, although 23 times is quite a few.... hence why my plan A would be to pick a different sentence. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
huntchaos Posted November 10, 2011 Share Posted November 10, 2011 Jennefer, I have an 11 year old aspie and we are doing WWE for the first time this year. The dictations kill him and I really modify and break it up piece by piece. He is also really good at memorizing errata information so, I am not sure what it is about the dictations but I pretty much give him one sentence at a time and even that does not always go smoothly. Today he told me that there is so much in his head it is hard to hold onto those dictation sentences. At the beginning, he struggled with the passages and narrations as well but, now he is doing great with those so, I keep plodding along. I have really seen his reading comprehension jump and his ability to summarize has expanded greatly thanks to WWE so, I haven't really stressed over the dictation. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
huntchaos Posted November 10, 2011 Share Posted November 10, 2011 I have frankly changed many of the dictation passages into copywork. My DS can repeat the theme but not word for word. If he was taking notes in a classroom, his note taking would have gotten the point. IMHO, some of the passages are just too long and complex. I like this idea. I may try this off and on to lessen the pressure. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HRAAB Posted November 10, 2011 Share Posted November 10, 2011 I've had the same issue with my twins. I approach quite a bit of the dictation as 'studied dictation'. I will first assign it as copywork, study spelling, mechanics, etc., then the next day I will dictate it. Also, I started off dictating phrase by phrase and working our way up to an entire sentence. Even now, if the passage is quite long, I don't expect them to retain it entirely, word for word. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jenny in GA Posted November 10, 2011 Share Posted November 10, 2011 My 10 year old just started WWE4 this week. The first dictation she did was: The imposters requested him very courteously to be so good as to come nearer their looms, and then asked him whether the design pleased him, and whether the colors were not very beautiful, while at the same time pointing to the empty frames. We broke it down into three sections and did it a bit at a time. Maybe there's something wrong with me, but I constantly amazed at the "leveling" at WWE. This is supposed to be something a child can do at the beginning of fourth grade?? And some of the reading in WWE3 I thought were pretty tough for a third grader. I even frowned and said to my child, "I would be curious to have some of your schooled friends come over and see if they could do this only I read it only three times!" But maybe I am completely out of touch with what is "grade level." I will say, though, that I am not absolutely positive that I could remember and write that entire passage after hearing it only three times! Anyway, all that is to say to modify it to fit your needs. I often say to my kids, "That's fine; Susan won't come to our house and yell at us if we don't do it exactly that way.";) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
redsquirrel Posted November 10, 2011 Share Posted November 10, 2011 Have you seen the You Tube video of SWB doing a dictation with her son? There is a lot more than three times going on there. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ErinE Posted November 10, 2011 Share Posted November 10, 2011 We're using WWE3 and after having the same issues, I set it aside. My ds loves the readings, but the narration guidance was too broad and the dictation sentences were too much. We now narrate history: I go through the narration questions, guide him on formulating a response, write down the sentences, then dictate it back to him. We do straight dictation sentences for science, usually the main idea of a passage he's read. The point of dictation is holding the thought in his head (see SWB's video with her son Daniel) and exposure to beautiful writing. I didn't find the WWE dictation selections great examples of writing. So, we still follow the WWE guidelines, but use history and science instead of WWE as a separate writing program. I added WWW because I wanted ds to have greater guidance in composition. He's enjoying it and he works independently. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jennefer@SSA Posted November 11, 2011 Author Share Posted November 11, 2011 Thanks everyone. I am feeling much better and honestly am relieved to find others sharing similar struggles. We will keep plodding along. He is doing well with the narrations and has made huge progress in that respect this year. I will continue to modify his dictations to work for us. Phew, I sure wish I would have come on here and posted this sooner. :D Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rocketgirl Posted November 11, 2011 Share Posted November 11, 2011 (edited) As i understood, WWS is for after WWE is completed....We won't be starting til next year, so sorry, no advice i can share :) We just started WWE this year: I have my 2nd grader in WWE2, my 1st in WWE1, but my 6th grader in WWE4 and all seem to be good fits. My 6th grader isn't functioning on a 4th grade level (WWE"4") but WWE is new & challenging at that level. Edited November 11, 2011 by rocketgirl Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Melis Posted November 11, 2011 Share Posted November 11, 2011 Have you seen the You Tube video of SWB doing a dictation with her son? There is a lot more than three times going on there. I was thinking that same thing! LOL Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Melis Posted November 11, 2011 Share Posted November 11, 2011 Good Morning :) Thanks everyone. I am feeling much better and honestly am relieved to find others sharing similar struggles. We will keep plodding along. He is doing well with the narrations and has made huge progress in that respect this year. I will continue to modify his dictations to work for us. Phew, I sure wish I would have come on here and posted this sooner. :D I'm so glad you're feeling better about it! :grouphug: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Emmy Posted November 11, 2011 Share Posted November 11, 2011 (edited) I really thought I had read *somewhere* here on the board that some students just won't get through WWE4 in terms of dictation; that completing WWE3's dictation is enough and WWE4 just continues to hone the skill for those that can. I am not necessarily even planning on doing WWE4. Right now my oldest (5th grade) is using WWS (and didn't complete WWE4) and my second son (4th grade) is doing WWE3. If he is doing well with the narration side, I would just continue doing what you are doing but shorten / adapt / break into pieces those dictation pieces. They are very long and perhaps a tad unrealistic imho. Edited November 11, 2011 by Emmy correct error Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
By Grace Posted November 11, 2011 Share Posted November 11, 2011 Sorry, y'all-- I'm familiar with WWE (DD1 loves it), but what is WWS and WWW? TIA! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
By Grace Posted November 11, 2011 Share Posted November 11, 2011 Oh! I saw in someone's siggie that WWW was grouped with GWG, which we use...okay, got that one (Winning with Writing). Still stumped on WWS... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Emmy Posted November 11, 2011 Share Posted November 11, 2011 Oh! I saw in someone's siggie that WWW was grouped with GWG, which we use...okay, got that one (Winning with Writing). Still stumped on WWS... WWS is Writing with Skill, SWB's new logic stage writing program that would follow WWE. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
By Grace Posted November 11, 2011 Share Posted November 11, 2011 WWS is Writing with Skill, SWB's new logic stage writing program that would follow WWE. Oh, okay! Thank you!!! Off to google... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Haiku Posted November 11, 2011 Share Posted November 11, 2011 I've always wondered what you're supposed to do after you've repeated the passage three times and the student still can't write it down. There aren't any instructions given for that. As long as dd is paying attention, I don't care how many times I repeat it. Tara Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sahamamama Posted November 11, 2011 Share Posted November 11, 2011 I've always wondered what you're supposed to do after you've repeated the passage three times and the student still can't write it down. There aren't any instructions given for that. As long as dd is paying attention, I don't care how many times I repeat it. Tara Good question. :bigear: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mom-ninja. Posted November 11, 2011 Share Posted November 11, 2011 Watch SWB's youtube video. :) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jennefer@SSA Posted November 16, 2011 Author Share Posted November 16, 2011 Watch SWB's youtube video. :) Goodness, that was so helpful! Ds10 and I sat down and watched the video together; we were BOTH very encouraged. Susan repeated the passage a few times before even starting to count her official 3 times to read it and still after that continued to repeat parts of it until Dan could say it correctly. Imo, that video url should be listed as a resource in the teacher's part of the book. To see the author using the material with her own students is so helpful and empowering. I should be able to take material and tweak it. I should. I should. I should. But I am that rigid type who tries to follow everything to the letter. If it says only read it 3 times then by golly I get locked into that. :blush: Susan, thanks for allowing us a glimpse into your home and your school. To all who replied thank you for your encouragement and pointing me in the right direction. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.