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Penn State's Joe Paterno has been *fired*


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I don't have a problem with him calling his father either -- it is that the FIRST thing he did was to call his father. If he walked by a trash can and there were flames coming out, would it make sense for him to call his father and then leave the building and go home; or pull the fire alarm and call 911? THAT is what I am talking about. As it turns out, he called his father and left the building. He and his father went and spoke to JP the next day. I just cannot imagine that a 28 year old wouldn't think of stopping the attack. If he walked by two of his friends in a fight, wouldn't he probably intervene to stop it? Just saying, I found his response odd.
totally this.

 

yeap 28 and a BIG GUY no reason he didn't take Sandusky out.

 

and he should have also been canned. OR quit now.

 

It is sad because there is nothing else that Penn can do but totally clean the house there.

that won't happen till later but it will happen

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I said this same thing to my husband two nights ago. The media shouldn't be minimizing this in any way, but referring to the rape of a child as a 'sex scandal' certainly does just that.

 

Yes, terms like that definitely minimize - the one I heard was even worse. I first heard about this on the radio yesterday, and the reporter referred to it as the "child abuse" scandal. I was really puzzled and imagined something like the judge beating incident - I had no idea what it was about until I saw stories this morning.

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Nebraska should walk off the field in protest. What a worm.

 

A 28 year old man is old enough to at least TRY to protect a child. Heck, I'm a 5'2" girl and I'd still run in, punch the jerk as hard as I could, start screaming, grab the kid and go to the cops.

 

:iagree: What should Nebraska's response be? I can't imagine Nebraska fans reacting well.

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Not only has McQueary retained his position, he will be coaching the Saturday's game. Disgusting.

 

http://www.freep.com/assets/freep/pdf/C4181508116.PDF

 

Seriously? They are still planning to play this game on Saturday and put this guy right there on the sideline for everyone to see? And this guy is fool enough to do it?

 

 

I thought for sure they would fire him. Sounds like maybe they are setting him up instead. He'd better quit while he still has his skin.

Edited by Swirl
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They should fire every single person who knew about the incident and did not go to the police. Every one. Those poor kids. If it had been reported and investigated when it happened how many kids would have been spared abuse at the hands of that sick man?

 

Same goes for the Vatican. Cardinal Law never should have been reassigned to Italy. Everyone, from the top down, should have been held accountable.

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I think *everyone* who knew and didn't call the Police should be tried for accessory for every child who was sexually vioated by this guy, including those that will be coming forth in the months to come as victims after it should have been reported.

 

I think that the culpability is larger than that, and is part of the sports culture. Those who participate, watch, and are fans, are part of the culture that created this problem. To have an alma-mater, to be a fan is fine but please don't do so thinking that the sports culture is healthy.

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That was a bit over the top yucky.

 

I just still am in shock that so little was done, forget Joe WHAT ABOUT THE POLICE that also knew,

 

I still haven't really got to the bottom of WHEN it was reported to police. I think it was 2008 and I think that was by a teacher somewhere (one of the victim's teachers). Is that how it unraveled? When did the GA tell his story to the Grand Jury? Did he volunteer to go in?

 

So many questions I have.

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I still haven't really got to the bottom of WHEN it was reported to police. I think it was 2008 and I think that was by a teacher somewhere (one of the victim's teachers). Is that how it unraveled? When did the GA tell his story to the Grand Jury? Did he volunteer to go in?

 

So many questions I have.

did you read the Grand Jury report. I only made it to page 2

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That was a bit over the top yucky.

 

I just still am in shock that so little was done, forget Joe WHAT ABOUT THE POLICE that also knew,

 

Well I don't know about this particular situation, but the police often know quite a lot but can't do anything. What they know and what they can prove in a court of law are often very different things. Unless the police can do something legally, there is very little they can do beyond continued investigation or research for more evidence. Even then they have to be careful to avoid harassment charges if they are continually investigating someone who they can't charge, their investigative rights are limited as well. The police can "know" quite a lot without any recourse to do anything about it.

 

Heather

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:iagree: What should Nebraska's response be? I can't imagine Nebraska fans reacting well.

Nebraska fans are not happy to be the team on the schedule this weekend.

 

 

I don't know? Rotten eggs? Loud jeering and shouting? Accidentally punching him in the face?

After the behavior on the PSU campus last night, Nebraska administration is pretty worried about fan safety. They are advising fans to keep a low profile and Tom Osborne (Nebraska AD) suggested this morning that NU fans might not want to wear red.

 

It's a mess.

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I read the whole thing. I think it is important to understand how these guys work. It reminds me of how Gavin de Becker says rapists test women out as potential marks.

 

I'm going to have a conversation with my kids today -- not about the touching of private parts! It is going to be about adults not acting like the adults they know and trust. My kids shower with me. It's all business. Someone doesn't act all business, tell them to knock it off right away. Someone touches your knee more than once, it's not an accident. Knock it off. I don't sit fondling my kids' knees. Then inner thigh! Who would? But if we only focus on the pen*s, then the kids may have been uncomfortable, but not given to OK to call B.S. on the early, tester moves by the perv.

 

This is why I don't like to teach children blind obedience to authority. Not all authority can be trusted. And these perps test, test, test, moving closer to the line, then over the line.

 

I think I need to go have a workout with the heavy bag.

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Joanne said, " I think that the culpability is larger than that, and is part of the sports culture. Those who participate, watch, and are fans, are part of the culture that created this problem. To have an alma-mater, to be a fan is fine but please don't do so thinking that the sports culture is healthy."

 

 

I can't agree with this at all. So you are blaming someone like me, who watched her first college football game at age 47, who has now a team she favors but hasn't even gone to a game and watches games on DVR later, as part of the problem???? WHat problem?? I and millions of other fans around the country had nothing to do with this problem at PSU. I don;t hold either players or coaches as some kind of superheroes. I never held up any sports figures as heroes to my kids. I help up some as good athletes. Are there people who go overboard with fan rivalry? Of course. Here in Alabama we have a nut who poisoned old oak trees as some sort of insane rivalry. My daughter participated in a rivalry with the other big school here on who can get more food donations to the local food bank. I don't think that what happened in PSU happened everywhere. I think part of the really big problem at PSU was that they were really proud that they supposedly had no scandals in their football program. Well I would much rather have recruits being given illegal football tickets than children being raped. THere is simply no comparison yet I think that part of what motivated the cover-up was this arrogance that they weren't like schools like Ohio State or Miami. Yeah, that's right, they weren't. They were much worse.

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Joanne said, " I think that the culpability is larger than that, and is part of the sports culture. Those who participate, watch, and are fans, are part of the culture that created this problem. To have an alma-mater, to be a fan is fine but please don't do so thinking that the sports culture is healthy."

 

 

I can't agree with this at all. So you are blaming someone like me, who watched her first college football game at age 47, who has now a team she favors but hasn't even gone to a game and watches games on DVR later, as part of the problem???? WHat problem?? I and millions of other fans around the country had nothing to do with this problem at PSU. I don;t hold either players or coaches as some kind of superheroes. I never held up any sports figures as heroes to my kids. I help up some as good athletes. Are there people who go overboard with fan rivalry? Of course. Here in Alabama we have a nut who poisoned old oak trees as some sort of insane rivalry. My daughter participated in a rivalry with the other big school here on who can get more food donations to the local food bank. I don't think that what happened in PSU happened everywhere. I think part of the really big problem at PSU was that they were really proud that they supposedly had no scandals in their football program. Well I would much rather have recruits being given illegal football tickets than children being raped. THere is simply no comparison yet I think that part of what motivated the cover-up was this arrogance that they weren't like schools like Ohio State or Miami. Yeah, that's right, they weren't. They were much worse.

 

 

The unhealthy dynamic that permeates professional sports and big college sports IS the reason this happened the way it did. It's a symbiotic relationship; the sports machine would not exist if it didn't have the demand from fans. This demand fuels the machine which manufactures situations that create the PSU scandal.

 

Less dramatic, less publicized events happen daily in the sports community as a direct result of valuing sports to this degree.

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The unhealthy dynamic that permeates professional sports and big college sports IS the reason this happened the way it did. It's a symbiotic relationship; the sports machine would not exist if it didn't have the demand from fans. This demand fuels the machine which manufactures situations that create the PSU scandal.

 

Less dramatic, less publicized events happen daily in the sports community as a direct result of valuing sports to this degree.

 

:iagree:

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That is the heartbreak for McQ

 

No, his heartbreak is "I watched a child get r@ped and I did nothing. I'm a despicable person."

 

Sorry, reporting the r@pe of a child to your dad and your boss doesn't cut it. You call the d@mn police immediately after you tackle the rapist and beat him to bloody pulp.

 

Tara

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No, his heartbreak is "I watched a child get r@ped and I did nothing. I'm a despicable person."

 

Sorry, reporting the r@pe of a child to your dad and your boss doesn't cut it. You call the d@mn police immediately after you tackle the rapist and beat him to bloody pulp.

 

Tara

 

AMEN!! He was a former football player. Not a 98 lb weakling. His only weakness was MORAL. He had the ability to stop it, but not the courage or decency.

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No, his heartbreak is "I watched a child get r@ped and I did nothing. I'm a despicable person."

 

Sorry, reporting the r@pe of a child to your dad and your boss doesn't cut it. You call the d@mn police immediately after you tackle the rapist and beat him to bloody pulp.

 

Tara

:iagree:

 

I can't wrap my mind around this train of thought. The heartbreak for McQ? His heroes? He was a 28 year-old MAN for crap's sake! Get over yourself & think about the 10 year-old boy who's being raped by an authority figure & you just standing there letting it happen. Good God I can't even type any more without using more expletives. Heroes my a$$.

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Well I don't know about this particular situation, but the police often know quite a lot but can't do anything. What they know and what they can prove in a court of law are often very different things. Unless the police can do something legally, there is very little they can do beyond continued investigation or research for more evidence. Even then they have to be careful to avoid harassment charges if they are continually investigating someone who they can't charge, their investigative rights are limited as well. The police can "know" quite a lot without any recourse to do anything about it.

 

Heather

 

Sandusky CONFESSED on a wire apparently in 1998 to fondling a child in the Penn State Shower.

 

The reason that McQ is being treated with kid gloves at present is because he is the only witness the defense has less of a chance of destroying. The janitor is now in a nursing home with dementia and I don't want to think about the slimy tactics the defense attorneys are going to use against these kids in an effort to cast doubt on the veracity of their accusations.

 

The very least McQ can do is testify now though it in no way makes up for his lack of action at the time of the incident IMO.

 

No matter how fanatical the fans it does not make a coach a god. He does that himself - he and the staff around him and the administration. All sports are not evil. Some people - sadly - are.

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This is an excerpt from a speech made by the interim coach (Bradley). He said McQ will stay on. I really don't get these people. I'll agree with him that Paterno had an impact on many lives. He had an impact on those little boys' lives when he didn't speak up and go to the police.

 

 

"Coach Paterno will go down in history as one of the greatest men, who maybe most of you know as a great football coach," he said. "I've had the privilege and the honor to work for him, spend time with him. He's had such dynamic impact on so many, so many. I'll say it again, so many people and players' lives."

 

"It's with great respect that I speak of him and I'm proud to say that I worked for him."

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I read the whole thing. I think it is important to understand how these guys work. It reminds me of how Gavin de Becker says rapists test women out as potential marks.

 

I'm going to have a conversation with my kids today -- not about the touching of private parts! It is going to be about adults not acting like the adults they know and trust. My kids shower with me. It's all business. Someone doesn't act all business, tell them to knock it off right away. Someone touches your knee more than once, it's not an accident. Knock it off. I don't sit fondling my kids' knees. Then inner thigh! Who would? But if we only focus on the pen*s, then the kids may have been uncomfortable, but not given to OK to call B.S. on the early, tester moves by the perv.

 

This is why I don't like to teach children blind obedience to authority. Not all authority can be trusted. And these perps test, test, test, moving closer to the line, then over the line.

 

I think I need to go have a workout with the heavy bag.

 

I agree. with all you said. I watched an interview with a young man who was once in that program that Sandusky ran....he told of weird things that were (in hindsite to the young man) grooming tactics. Things felt 'off' to that (then) child...he even asked another child in the program if the coach did things like that to him. So these predators really do just keep pushing boundaries until they find the one that won't fight back.

 

So how do you have a conversation like the one you mentioned?

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Even that link has it worded as, "McQueary, now a full-time coach, was the graduate assistant who allegedly witnessed Jerry Sandusky molesting a young boy in the shower in 2002."

 

Sanitized much?!?! :cursing::cursing::cursing:

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Sandusky CONFESSED on a wire apparently in 1998 to fondling a child in the Penn State Shower.

 

The reason that McQ is being treated with kid gloves at present is because he is the only witness the defense has less of a chance of destroying. The janitor is now in a nursing home with dementia and I don't want to think about the slimy tactics the defense attorneys are going to use against these kids in an effort to cast doubt on the veracity of their accusations.

 

The very least McQ can do is testify now though it in no way makes up for his lack of action at the time of the incident IMO.

 

No matter how fanatical the fans it does not make a coach a god. He does that himself - he and the staff around him and the administration. All sports are not evil. Some people - sadly - are.

 

Well yes but my response was in response to a previous post implying that the police were ok with letting this go as well. I haven't heard anything to support police involvement in the cover up. In fact any lack of prosecution (and yes you would expect prosecution if Sandusky confesses on a wire - unless the wire was illegal) would fall at the feet of the DA's office, not the police. They don't have the authority to actually press charges or get the warrants for arrests (hence the TV show Law and Order- not just Law LOL).

 

Believe me, I think these people who knew and did nothing are vile, sick people. And the idea that McQ actually saw an attack and didn't attack back to stop the assault is just reprehensible to me. But I didn't agree with the poster who implied that the police are just as culpable as these cowards who knew and actively continued to support Sandusky and cover up his acts - enabling him to continue raping.

 

Heather

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I can't help but wonder if this won't be the opening of the floodgates on other abuse in organized sports. I doubt this is an isolated situation. Incredibly sick. I also can't fathom how team supporters can be outraged about the firing of those who knew. Can you imagine how the victims must feel in seeing that?

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So how do you have a conversation like the one you mentioned?

 

Well, next time, I think alcohol should be involved (for me). :001_huh: My kids are the masters at driving a conversation into insane rabbit holes, and today, that's what happened. About 4x my eyes rolled to the back of my head, as they got stuck on minutiae, and my dh did his best to keep things level. He's a peach. :)

 

In the end, I think the message got through. My main theme was:

 

Adults should act like adults. Any adult acting too friendly or touching you more than normal is someone you can tell to BACK OFF! We practiced saying BACK OFF firmly. I even had them say, BACK OFF JACKASS. -- That took awhile to get them to say*. Why did I choose that? Because it is not language of "Stop. Don't touch my bathing suit area." That's arguable. BACK OFF J.A. isn't really an arguable stance, and most likely those words would suprise an adult coming from a child.

 

I also stress on a regular basis that bad people aren't being bad 100% of the day, so that our chance of having any bad encounter is pretty low. I certainly don't want them paranoid of an imminent attack. Also, I said if they weren't sure it was a BACK OFF situation, that they can physically move away no matter what the person says and get to Mom and Dad as soon as possible, and discuss it with us.

 

As you can see, I'll never win any awards for keeping people safe. Or raising politically correct kids.

 

 

*Technically, it's just an alternate term for donkey. Once I told them that, they finally said it. ;)

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So how do you have a conversation like the one you mentioned?

 

Get the book 'Transforming Trauma' by Anna Salter -- it is on Amazon and might even be at the library. She is a psychiatrist who has worked for years with people who prey on children - most of her work is done through a prison system.

 

She goes into great detail regarding the 'grooming' that these animals do.

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I think *everyone* who knew and didn't call the Police should be tried for accessory for every child who was sexually vioated by this guy, including those that will be coming forth in the months to come as victims after it should have been reported.

 

 

 

I agree with this statement.

 

Those who participate, watch, and are fans, are part of the culture that created this problem.

 

I absolutely disagree with this statement.

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Well, next time, I think alcohol should be involved (for me). :001_huh: My kids are the masters at driving a conversation into insane rabbit holes, and today, that's what happened. About 4x my eyes rolled to the back of my head, as they got stuck on minutiae, and my dh did his best to keep things level. He's a peach. :)

 

In the end, I think the message got through. My main theme was:

 

Adults should act like adults. Any adult acting too friendly or touching you more than normal is someone you can tell to BACK OFF! We practiced saying BACK OFF firmly. I even had them say, BACK OFF JACKASS. -- That took awhile to get them to say*. Why did I choose that? Because it is not language of "Stop. Don't touch my bathing suit area." That's arguable. BACK OFF J.A. isn't really an arguable stance, and most likely those words would suprise an adult coming from a child.

 

I also stress on a regular basis that bad people aren't being bad 100% of the day, so that our chance of having any bad encounter is pretty low. I certainly don't want them paranoid of an imminent attack. Also, I said if they weren't sure it was a BACK OFF situation, that they can physically move away no matter what the person says and get to Mom and Dad as soon as possible, and discuss it with us.

 

As you can see, I'll never win any awards for keeping people safe. Or raising politically correct kids.

 

 

*Technically, it's just an alternate term for donkey. Once I told them that, they finally said it. ;)

 

:001_huh:

 

I spit my drink out reading that. Not really but I would have, had I been drinking. Hilarious.

 

I talked to ds11 about it today too....I started out asking him if he had heard what was going on....he had and so we went from there. He wanted to know why it was rape if the child was not physically forced. He immediately 'got' how a child could be pressured or tricked into stuff. So I told him that is what I wanted him to be on the look out for....that it isn't the stranger in the park we have to worry about (so much) ...it is the men (and older teens too) that we 'think' are trustworthy. He got a little tangled up on that....(why would you leave me alone with someone like that mom? :tongue_smilie:)

 

So then I went on to ask him how many men has he ever been alone with. 3. My Dad, ds's dad and my husband. I asked him if he thought that was a coincidence or intentional. :) He got a big light bulb moment look on his face.

 

 

We talked about some of the specific things that Sandusky did to those boys as grooming.....hand on the knee or the thigh...he looked :001_huh: at that enough that I know he would know immediately it was 'off' if anyone tried that.

 

We also talked about why Paterno was fired....and the importance of standing up and doing the right thing when someone is being harmed.

 

It went ok.

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Get the book 'Transforming Trauma' by Anna Salter -- it is on Amazon and might even be at the library. She is a psychiatrist who has worked for years with people who prey on children - most of her work is done through a prison system.

 

She goes into great detail regarding the 'grooming' that these animals do.

 

Thank you!

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Well, next time, I think alcohol should be involved (for me). :001_huh: My kids are the masters at driving a conversation into insane rabbit holes, and today, that's what happened. About 4x my eyes rolled to the back of my head, as they got stuck on minutiae, and my dh did his best to keep things level. He's a peach. :)

 

In the end, I think the message got through. My main theme was:

 

Adults should act like adults. Any adult acting too friendly or touching you more than normal is someone you can tell to BACK OFF! We practiced saying BACK OFF firmly. I even had them say, BACK OFF JACKASS. -- That took awhile to get them to say*. Why did I choose that? Because it is not language of "Stop. Don't touch my bathing suit area." That's arguable. BACK OFF J.A. isn't really an arguable stance, and most likely those words would suprise an adult coming from a child.

 

I also stress on a regular basis that bad people aren't being bad 100% of the day, so that our chance of having any bad encounter is pretty low. I certainly don't want them paranoid of an imminent attack. Also, I said if they weren't sure it was a BACK OFF situation, that they can physically move away no matter what the person says and get to Mom and Dad as soon as possible, and discuss it with us.

 

As you can see, I'll never win any awards for keeping people safe. Or raising politically correct kids.

 

 

*Technically, it's just an alternate term for donkey. Once I told them that, they finally said it. ;)

 

Love it, thanks for posting!

 

I like to add to these sorts of conversations things like trusting your instincts, nice ways of getting away from people when they give you the creeps, warning against adults who tell you to keep secrets from your parents.

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I think that the culpability is larger than that, and is part of the sports culture. Those who participate, watch, and are fans, are part of the culture that created this problem. To have an alma-mater, to be a fan is fine but please don't do so thinking that the sports culture is healthy.

 

:confused::confused:

 

Joanne, you are way off base here. Way off. :glare:

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