Penn State's Joe Paterno has been *fired*

[Blueridge]

I just heard it on our local news. :001_huh:

http://msn.foxsports.com/collegefootball/story/joe-paterno-fired-penn-state-football-coach-president-graham-spanier-child-sex-abuse-scandal-board-of-trustees-meeting-110911

[cathmom]

wow...but if he covered up that kind of abuse, he should be!

[purplejackmama]

I am physically sick over this whole situation. Unbelievable the level of abuse and subsequent cover-up!

[UnsinkableKristen]

Good.

[Blueridge]

wow...but if he covered up that kind of abuse, he should be!

 

But he had reported it to the athletic director.

[pdalley]

It's a good start. They should fire every single person who knew about the incident and did not go to the police. Every one. Those poor kids. If it had been reported and investigated when it happened how many kids would have been spared abuse at the hands of that sick man?

[Starr]

The Grand Jury reports are iffy about law and moral responsibility. No one informed the police. I think the President is going too and I haven't read that he knew anything but I haven't read much. The school has to do something. This is really terrible.

Edited November 10, 2011 by Starr

[UnsinkableKristen]

But he had reported it to the athletic director.

 

 

And that athletic director never did anything about it. And Paterno never followed up. HOW can you know that a boy just got r@ped in the shower by YOUR EMPLOYEE and NEVER wonder why nothing came of it?? He may have fulfilled his legal responsibility, but he massively failed his moral one.

[cathmom]

But he had reported it to the athletic director.

 

I haven't read any details at all - I only know what my mom told me because she lives near PA, so she heard about it before me.

[Rivka]

But he had reported it to the athletic director.

But sexual abuse of a child is not a personnel matter for the employment chain of command. It's a police matter.

 

What was Penn State's response? To ban Sandusky from bringing children on campus. Apparently, they didn't give a d*mn about what he did to kids anywhere else. And apparently that satisfied Paterno.

 

He doesn't deserve to keep his job.

[MeaganS]

Isn't he legally obligated to report it to the police? Supervisor nothing. It has nothing to do with the supervisors. It has everything to do with the police. It's not a school issue. I think he should totally be fired and am glad he is.

[Blueridge]

But sexual abuse of a child is not a personnel matter for the employment chain of command. It's a police matter.

 

What was Penn State's response? To ban Sandusky from bringing children on campus. Apparently, they didn't give a d*mn about what he did to kids anywhere else. And apparently that satisfied Paterno.

 

He doesn't deserve to keep his job.

 

:ack2: I hadn't heard any of that. Absolutely disgusting.

[JudoMom]

:ack2: I hadn't heard any of that. Absolutely disgusting.

 

The whole thing is.

 

I agree that everyone who knew but didn't go to the cops should be fired. How the heck you can know a child was raped and not run to the police is beyond be. Disgusting.

[amey311]

The president is out, too, according to this: http://www.latimes.com/sports/la-spw-1110-paterno-ousted-20111110,0,2839873.story

[happypamama]

I've yet to hear that McQueary has been fired as well. I don't think that Paterno did all he could, but if McQueary actually witnessed the r@pe and didn't go to the police, HOW is it that Paterno was fired and not McQueary?? If the trustees of PSU want to show that they're cleaning house of anyone who might have helped cover it up, that should mean everyone. (I sincerely hope they are not using it as a convenient way of getting rid of Paterno anyway.)

[twoforjoy]

But sexual abuse of a child is not a personnel matter for the employment chain of command. It's a police matter.

 

What was Penn State's response? To ban Sandusky from bringing children on campus. Apparently, they didn't give a d*mn about what he did to kids anywhere else. And apparently that satisfied Paterno.

 

He doesn't deserve to keep his job.

 

The school's response is just shocking. Not only did they not fire him, they gave him an office on campus! It's insane.

 

Recently a 26yo was sentenced to life in prison without the possibility of parole for downloading child pornography via a free filesharing program to his computer. And yet this man raped a young child and not only didn't face any legal penalties, but was given an office. I do not understand how anything about our "justice system" makes any sense.

[acurtis75]

wow...but if he covered up that kind of abuse, he should be!

 

While I agree that those who covered this up should be punished I'm not sure that this isn't a situation where public opinion and emotions might have taken over and caused a rush to judgement. If the articles online are correct the grad student who called Joe Pa said he thought he saw something inappropriate. That's a far cry from what that same student said to the grand jury about what he witnessed where he specified that he saw a crime. If all Joe Parerno was told was that there was potentially something inappropriate going on it seems notifying his supervisor was the proper response. In hindsight it is easy to seehe didn't do enough but should he be judged based on hindsight? Where's the outrage towards the grad assistant. If he really saw what he says he saw why didn't he call the police immediately? Why at the time would you reference possibly seeing something inappropriate but now provid specifics. Something just seems off about the whole thing to me.

[acurtis75]

I've yet to hear that McQueary has been fired as well. I don't think that Paterno did all he could, but if McQueary actually witnessed the r@pe and didn't go to the police, HOW is it that Paterno was fired and not McQueary?? If the trustees of PSU want to show that they're cleaning house of anyone who might have helped cover it up, that should mean everyone. (I sincerely hope they are not using it as a convenient way of getting rid of Paterno anyway.)

:iagree: I think we were typing at the same time. I wonder if the board was regretting that life time contract?

[ErinE]

Good.

[deacongirl]

But he had reported it to the athletic director.

You are being facetious, right? If it was your kid the guy was sodomizing in the shower would you have thought that was enough?

[linguistmama]

Good! I agree that everyone who knew and did not report to police should face stiff consequences too!

[UnsinkableKristen]

Where's the outrage towards the grad assistant. If he really saw what he says he saw why didn't he call the police immediately?

 

Speaking only for myself, I have just as much outrage toward him and towards his father (who he allegedly called first) as I do towards the others.

[acurtis75]

In *2002*.

 

...and all these years since then, this evil man has still had access to kids through his "outreach program".

 

There were people who *witnessed* him *raping* a ten year old boy - one of whom went to the coach (rather than calling the police then and there), and the coach reported it up his chain of command... and then when *they* didn't report it to the police (who were the people he *should* have called in the first place, morally, if not legally), he let all these *years* go by.

 

It is horrific.

 

This wasn't a case of vague rumors or concerns, it was one of eyewitnesses, not to "inappropriate behavior" or "fondling" or any other, also *wrong* molestation, but to actual, unmistakable *rape*.

 

I try to assume the best of people, but I cannot begin to imagine the smallest shred of an excuse for any adult with any knowledge of this who did not take real, substantial action to protect vulnerable children.

 

I'm sorry. I sound angry, don't I?

 

Not at you, my dear, not at all.

 

I think everyone is skipping over the fact that the grad student didn't tell Paterno what he saw specifically. It's very easy to wonder how someone didn't report seeing a rape. That is apparently what the grad student did, that is NOT what Paterno was told. As a person who actually facilitated a relative turning themselves in and going to prison or life for abuse I recognize the severity of the situation but also think some of the outrage is misdirected.

[happypamama]

If the articles online are correct the grad student who called Joe Pa said he thought he saw something inappropriate. That's a far cry from what that same student said to the grand jury about what he witnessed where he specified that he saw a crime. If all Joe Parerno was told was that there was potentially something inappropriate going on it seems notifying his supervisor was the proper response. Something just seems off about the whole thing to me.

 

I agree with you; something seems off about it to me as well.

 

I am impressed that the University went for swift and decisive. I don't know if I feel that that was the right move or not, but I'm impressed that they didn't dilly-dally. I hope that their willingness to take this stance will go far in restoring people's faith in Penn State as a whole.

 

I also think that the whole Paterno (and Spanier too, but mainly Paterno) thing is detracting from the major horror -- the alleged r@pes of boys by Sandusky.

[ErinE]

If the articles online are correct the grad student who called Joe Pa said he thought he saw something inappropriate. That's a far cry from what that same student said to the grand jury about what he witnessed where he specified that he saw a crime. If all Joe Parerno was told was that there was potentially something inappropriate going on it seems notifying his supervisor was the proper response.

 

It was inappropriate enough that Sandusky was banned from bringing children on campus. The 2002 incident was not the only reported incident to the Penn State authorities. There were other reports made and only one was actually reported to the police. Had all the incidents been forwarded to the police, it would have been suscipious enough to warrant further investigation. No matter the alleged actions, the fact remains Joe Pa had an employee with multiplie allegations of abuse against him and Joe Pa chose to do nothing except protect the Penn State football program. There are many culpable adults in this situation, but Joe Pa doesn't get to wash his hands and turn away because he did his duty. He was the head coach and in a football program like Penn State's, the head coach IS the ultimate boss.

[Joker]

I think it's sickening that people still want to try and defend one man when many little boys were harmed. Paterno was told and passed the buck. He did nothing to help prevent more little boys from enduring the same fate. He should be fired. I honestly can't believe people actually disagree about this.

[linguistmama]

It was inappropriate enough that Sandusky was banned from bringing children on campus. The 2002 incident was not the only reported incident to the Penn State authorities. There were other reports made and only one was actually reported to the police. Had all the incidents been forwarded to the police, it would have been suscipious enough to warrant further investigation. No matter the alleged actions, the fact remains Joe Pa had an employee with multiplie allegations of abuse against him and Joe Pa chose to do nothing except protect the Penn State football program. There are many culpable adults in this situation, but Joe Pa doesn't get to wash his hands and turn away because he did his duty. He was the head coach and in a football program like Penn State's, the head coach IS the ultimate boss.

 

:iagree:He knew enough to report it to a superior and should have called the police as well. Even Joe Pa said in the op's link that he should have handled it differently!

[GWOB]

There is absolutely no excuse for not reporting the rape of a child/children to the cops. Period. Screw winning football games. Raping a child is vile, disgusting, and should NEVER be covered up. Joe Pa had 3 options. He should have a) called the cops immediately, b) taken the guy out behind the building and disposed of him, or c) gelded him as soon as he heard about the incident. Mostly option a. I don't care how classy he seemed to be for so many years. The whole flipping athletic department needs to be fired. And smacked.

 

Don't let the door hit ya on the way out Joe Pa.

[MariannNOVA]

I think it's sickening that people still want to try and defend one man when many little boys were harmed. Paterno was told and passed the buck. He did nothing to help prevent more little boys from enduring the same fate. He should be fired. I honestly can't believe people actually disagree about this.

 

 

I agree. The entire thing sickens me.

[Crissy]

The whole thing is.

 

I agree that everyone who knew but didn't go to the cops should be fired. How the heck you can know a child was raped and not run to the police is beyond be. Disgusting.

 

:iagree:

 

I don't know why this has affected me the way it has, but I have cried for those boys for two days now.

 

Not one of the people who knew but did nothing should retain his job. Not one.

[pdalley]

I think everyone is skipping over the fact that the grad student didn't tell Paterno what he saw specifically. It's very easy to wonder how someone didn't report seeing a rape. That is apparently what the grad student did, that is NOT what Paterno was told. As a person who actually facilitated a relative turning themselves in and going to prison or life for abuse I recognize the severity of the situation but also think some of the outrage is misdirected.

 

 

I'm not buying that one bit. The more they dig the worse this gets. This man was reported and investigated 13 years ago. http://deadspin.com/5857440/alleged-victims-mother-jerry-sandusky-admitted-it-to-my-face-13-years-ago

 

We don't know what the grad student - who disgusts me by HIS inaction and failure to report and deserves prosecution and job loss - told Paterno. We only know what they want us to think Paterno knew. We will never know how much Joe really knew.

 

If I had one inkling of anything of that type happening I would not rest until the police did a full investigation. There is no excuse IMO.

[sparrow]

I had a lot of respect for Joe Paterno for many years within our Big 10 conference. No more. Sick. It just makes me sick. This whole thing reeks of an "old boys club". The graduate assistant that reported it to Joe Pa is the current receivers coach for Penn State. They ALL put FLIPPIN' FOOTBALL ahead of children! No telling how far this ripples out. Sandusky had his charity in place since the 70s and he and his wife adopted and took in foster children. I am willing to bet the victim numbers quadruple and no telling how many of his victims went on to abuse others.

[acurtis75]

I think it's sickening that people still want to try and defend one man when many little boys were harmed. Paterno was told and passed the buck. He did nothing to help prevent more little boys from enduring the same fate. He should be fired. I honestly can't believe people actually disagree about this.

 

Just to e clear I am not defending Paterno. I don't have any personal feelings about him or whether or not he has a job. I simply feel that in the current media environment it is easy rush to judgement without having all the facts. I don't think football is more important than children. I think those who knew something and didn't tell police should be held accountable. I also think that we don't have all the facts and that the "fire everyone" and ask questions later approach isn't necessarily the best or most prudent.

[Joker]

I disagree.

 

I think the major horror is that adults could stand by and let a predator continue to have full access to vulnerable children for *years*.

 

Without that complicity, there would not have been so many tragedies.

 

I am heartbroken that this evil man hurt even one child, but the utterly, disbelieving horror, is that there were multiple pieces of evidence (including the man's admission to showering nude w/ two 11(?) yr old boys and 'fondling' them. *before* the witnessed rape (something the coach knew about.... and which make even the most mild report from the assistant highly actionable)) ... and there was no sense that protecting kids should be the highest priority.

 

I think it is, in some ways, a greater evil than that done by the rapist himself - to turn away and not act when you see/know such things are happening.

 

Yes. The idea that adults, grown men, could know such things and not help is frightening. Why don't we care? Why is their college or their sports/coaching career more important than those little boys? They could have helped and they could have stopped at least one predator but they did nothing. I don't feel bad they lost their job. They should have more consequences.

[GWOB]

I disagree.

 

I think the major horror is that adults could stand by and let a predator continue to have full access to vulnerable children for *years*.

 

Without that complicity, there would not have been so many tragedies.

 

I am heartbroken that this evil man hurt even one child, but the utterly, disbelieving horror, is that there were multiple pieces of evidence (including the man's admission to showering nude w/ two 11(?) yr old boys and 'fondling' them. *before* the witnessed rape (something the coach knew about.... and which make even the most mild report from the assistant highly actionable)) ... and there was no sense that protecting kids should be the highest priority.

 

I think it is, in some ways, a greater evil than that done by the rapist himself - to turn away and not act when you see/know such things are happening.

 

:iagree:As always, you are much more eloquent and rational than I could ever be.

[ErinE]

Just to e clear I am not defending Paterno. I don't have any personal feelings about him or whether or not he has a job. I simply feel that in the current media environment it is easy rush to judgement without having all the facts. I don't think football is more important than children. I think those who knew something and didn't tell police should be held accountable. I also think that we don't have all the facts and that the "fire everyone" and ask questions later approach isn't necessarily the best or most prudent.

 

Normally, I am cautious about a rush to judgement, as shown by rush to condemn the men in the Duke rape case. However, the facts are Sandusky had multiple reports of inappropriate contact with children. He was counseled in 1998 about his conduct; he retired in 1999. After the 2002 incident, Penn State banned him from contact with children on the campus. If it rises to the level of prohibiting conduct on campus, it warrants police attention.

[MariannNOVA]

Yes. The idea that adults, grown men, could know such things and not help is frightening. Why don't we care? Why is their college or their sports/coaching career more important than those little boys? They could have helped and they could have stopped at least one predator but they did nothing. I don't feel bad they lost their job. They should have more consequences.

 

Because the value system is all screwed up? I do not feel badly either that they have lost their jobs -- I do agree there should be stiffer consequences -- hit them where it hurts, in the wallet. It is sad and frightening that children are so endangered in our society.

[pdalley]

I disagree.

 

I think the major horror is that adults could stand by and let a predator continue to have full access to vulnerable children for *years*.

 

Without that complicity, there would not have been so many tragedies.

 

I am heartbroken that this evil man hurt even one child, but the utterly, disbelieving horror, is that there were multiple pieces of evidence (including the man's admission to showering nude w/ two 11(?) yr old boys and 'fondling' them. *before* the witnessed rape (something the coach knew about.... and which make even the most mild report from the assistant highly actionable)) ... and there was no sense that protecting kids should be the highest priority.

 

I think it is, in some ways, a greater evil than that done by the rapist himself - to turn away and not act when you see/know such things are happening.

 

 

:iagree:

 

All that is necessary for the triumph of evil is that good men do nothing. (source widely disputed)

[Joker]

Because the value system is all screwed up? I do not feel badly either that they have lost their jobs -- I do agree there should be stiffer consequences -- hit them where it hurts, in the wallet. It is sad and frightening that children are so endangered in our society.

 

 

I had a long rant typed out here but erased it. I don't think I can talk about the covering up of child abuse rationally. I will say my brother is an athletic director and head football coach and he would have ended up in trouble for seriously hurting this monster (as many of his friends would have according to their facebook rants about him). I agree that our priorities are screwed up today. People care way too much about the wrong things.

[Samiam]

The full Grand Jury report is online, and available to read.

 

BTW, the Grand Jury has been pulling this together for several months (which means they've been interviewing Penn State people involved), it's just now hitting the news. NONE OF THIS is news to those in charge at Penn State. Yet they waited for it to be made public before handling it.

 

 

JoeP says he doesn't think that the Grad Asst gave Joe full details of what he saw.

 

But then the Grad student met with the AD and Finance director, and THEY did get full details from him (which is one of the reasons they are in big trouble, they knew full well what happened yet choose to look away). Joe was there during one of the two meetings.

 

Perhaps it's his age now helping him forget, perhaps it's him covering his own butt, but Joe knew back then, more than some abstract stuff, he knew details.

 

You know, it's MORE than the AD and Finance Director just ignoring it. In one incident, where a victim's mother reported it as well as the victim's high school (where Sandusky volunteered and had private meetings with his "students") reported it. The case was at police and the Penn State police told them to drop it!!!

 

A janitor at Penn State witnessed another incident. He told his boss. Neither reported it.

 

A wrestling coach at at the high school where Sandusky volunteered and met with his student/victims saw a peculiar incident, although not full-fledged sexual, just rather odd and did not report it.

 

Over and over, these boys could have been rescued. Many people in the Penn State "house" should be hanging their heads in shame today. The "good ole boys club of football powerhouse" rules that town, and those children became victims because of that.

[Pippen]

Over and over, these boys could have been rescued. Many people in the Penn State "house" should be hanging their heads in shame today. The "good ole boys club of football powerhouse" rules that town, and those children became victims because of that.

 

So far I've not heard a single mention of the two things real men should have done in those situations: 1) *immediately* stepped in to protect the child from the assault and 2) dialed 911 or child protective services. Instead, it sounds like they all dialed up their immediate supervisors to protect their own butts and protect the reputation of the football program.

[5kidsforME]

Joe Paterno was a freaking living legend. He had all the clout and power to handle this swiftly and thoroughly. He chose not to, for whatever reason. I am glad he is fired. The whole thing has made me physically ill.

 

Who stood up for these boys??? Who?? No one. And the GA gets a coaching job?? And he's not fired? Yeah. Still no justice.

 

I am not a sue happy person at all. I am against frivolous lawsuits, but in this instance? I hope they go for the jugular.

 

This just sickens me.

[5kidsforME]

Just to e clear I am not defending Paterno. I don't have any personal feelings about him or whether or not he has a job. I simply feel that in the current media environment it is easy rush to judgement without having all the facts. I don't think football is more important than children. I think those who knew something and didn't tell police should be held accountable. I also think that we don't have all the facts and that the "fire everyone" and ask questions later approach isn't necessarily the best or most prudent.

 

 

Joe Paterno knew this happened years ago. He should not have rested until this man was brought up on charges at the very least.

 

We can dance around the whole "we have no idea how much he knew..." crap all day long but the bottom line is he knew SOMETHING and didn't see it through.

[Liz CA]

We should all be angry...and disgusted. I never cease to be amazed at the level of depravity in our society.

[MariannNOVA]

I think that folks (not here -- the general public) do not understand the depth and breadth of the trauma done to a child -- it is not just physical (as if that wasn't enough) -- the inner child is silenced when a child is tortured this way. The inner child loses his or her 'voice' and is never again (unless there is therapy - therapy that is thorough and responsible and appropriate) able to feel 'safe.' The child or young person is totally not the same again. Everything that he or she relied on in his/her world is trashed, blown to bits, as if a grenade has gone off inside the child, when a child is subjected to this animalistic disgusting behavior.

 

The book 'Transforming Trauma' by Anna Salter is one that I recommend to people who truly do not understand what the heck has gone on -- it is also one I recommend to people who do understand what the heck has gone on.

 

We do, unfortunately, live a society in where children are not protected and cherished as they should be.

 

As for Penn State, I think that the whole lot of them should be tossed into prison and let's see how they fare without their iron clad contracts, obscene salaries, and ridiculous stature afforded them by..........football? It sickens me.

[TravelingChris]

If the GA had simply yelled stop, it would have stopped.

 

I have been really, really sick of excuses these last two weeks. First, a Republican candidate has allegations of sexual harassment and other inappropriate sexual conduct and I hear person after person giving excuses for such behavior, even one saying it makes him alive unlike one of the other candidates who has been married to the same woman for over 40 years with no one claiming impropriety. Then this scandal with people, not so much here, but other places, making excuses for child molestation and child rape. I am just sick. I am glad that Joe Paterno was fired. I think he knew about the problem since the first incident which is why Sandusky retired at such a young age for a coach, especially one doing well in his sport. SO when the allegations came up again, just the fact that Sandusky was in a shower naked with a boy should have raised warning flags. But Paterno himself said there was some fondling or sexual stuff going on. How is it okay not to call the police? Then this charity set up to provide Sandusky with a never ending supply of victims. Just truly sick.

[snickelfritz]

Joe Paterno knew this happened years ago. He should not have rested until this man was brought up on charges at the very least.

 

We can dance around the whole "we have no idea how much he knew..." crap all day long but the bottom line is he knew SOMETHING and didn't see it through.

 

And if he didn't know.....it's because he didn't WANT to know.

 

What boss has an employee report that they saw something disturbing and they don't question the employee for more details? I can't imagine a head honcho letting them slide with just hemming and hawing that "something" happened...... Something big enough to be upset (the report I saw had Joe Pa saying he knew the GA was very disturbed about the incident.) Something big enough they knew to go higher with it....but the GA wouldn't share details?

 

Unless, they were trying to avoid knowing to save their own skin when the world found out.

Edited November 10, 2011 by snickelfritz

[Samiam]

And if he didn't know.....it's because he didn't WANT to know.

 

What boss has an employee report that they saw something disturbing and they don't question the employee for more details? I can't imagine a head honcho letting them slide with just hemming and hawing that "something" happened"....... Something big enough to be upset (the report I saw had Joe Pa saying he knew the GA was very disturbed about the incident.) Something big enough they knew to go higher with it....but the GA wouldn't share details?

 

Unless, they were trying to avoid knowing to save their own skin when the world found out.

 

But that's the thing, the GA DID share details....it's in the Grand Jury report.

 

Joe says he doesn't remember hearing details. Not only did Joe meet with the GA at his house (and like you said, thought it was serious enough to call his own boss), Joe was also present in 1 of 2 meetings the GA had with the AD and Finance Director (who btw, it should be noted, USED to be in charge of Penn State campus police, and could have had FULL access to the campus police report on the 1998 incident, had he looked, which he says he didn't).

 

They all knew, they did.

 

I just think back to the days when I used to work for a big company, at the headquarters, so it was a large office and alot of people working there. Everyone gossiped. Humans just do that. We all knew who was getting divorced, who was having an office affair, who was knocked up, etc, etc. People at Penn State, even those who weren't directly involved, had to know about the rumour. I mean, you have a team of janitors who talked about it, after one janitor witnessed a very sexual act. You have the local town High school who reported it to the police and banned Sandusky from any school interation (okay, that's not just something the principal does, that's a whole school board, teachers, etc knowing about it). It's like that whole community knew, after a while....there has to be whispers, etc. Certainly, alot of people in that area are probably not as shocked as the rest of us.....so sad.

 

Those children, forever altered, scarred.

[gingersmom]

I think they should all be burned at the stake.

 

Sick sick sick.

 

I can't even begin to fathom how someone can just pass the buck and think their responsibility is done. How you do not call the police immediately is beyond me.

[LaxMom]

And that athletic director never did anything about it. And Paterno never followed up. HOW can you know that a boy just got r@ped in the shower by YOUR EMPLOYEE and NEVER wonder why nothing came of it?? He may have fulfilled his legal responsibility, but he massively failed his moral one.

 

I agree. Every single person who knew about this and did not call the proper authority abdicated his responsibility as an ethical human being. Every.one.

 

Firing in your, what, 80s? is the very least of what should happen.