QueenCat Posted November 10, 2011 Share Posted November 10, 2011 :iagree: The OP has stated that it is not clear whether or not the child is special needs or not. The OP has also had dealings with the mother which have not been pleasant. Usually moms of special needs kids bend over backwards to help others intergrate their special needs child. This does not sound like this is the case. I would not invite the girl. It sounds like the girl has not had the correct training from home to act in a pleasing manner in a social situation. Life is too short to cater to jerks and jerks in training. As a mom of a child with Aspergers, I do bend over backwards to help my child integrate a situation. HOWEVER, I am often treated as if I'm MAKING UP his issues and just need to punish him. Sometimes we get burnt out from the exhaustion of having to bend over backwards, or being treated as "the parent with the odd kid". Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mona100 Posted November 10, 2011 Share Posted November 10, 2011 As a mom of a child with Aspergers, I do bend over backwards to help my child integrate a situation. HOWEVER, I am often treated as if I'm MAKING UP his issues and just need to punish him. Sometimes we get burnt out from the exhaustion of having to bend over backwards, or being treated as "the parent with the odd kid". If I had been a child nowadays, I probably would have been diagnosed as being on the spectrum myself. I do understand about knowing something is wrong with you and being on the outside looking in. For me, that is the best way to explain it. But if the manager has this issue you would think that everyone would know and not just be told please be nice to her. When my daughter was in school, we went on a school trip that was a 3 day camping trip. There was a child there who has Aspergers, but everyone knew it and when he would have his screaming fits no one would bat an eye because we all knew there was an issue and no one made fun of him. In fact, the kids were trying to be helpful. This was 5th grade so it was 10 and 11 years olds. So, I think if this kid had an issue it was not explained correctly to the volleyball team. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
clarkacademy Posted November 10, 2011 Share Posted November 10, 2011 If I had been a child nowadays, I probably would have been diagnosed as being on the spectrum myself. I do understand about knowing something is wrong with you and being on the outside looking in. For me, that is the best way to explain it. But if the manager has this issue you would think that everyone would know and not just be told please be nice to her. When my daughter was in school, we went on a school trip that was a 3 day camping trip. There was a child there who has Aspergers, but everyone knew it and when he would have his screaming fits no one would bat an eye because we all knew there was an issue and no one made fun of him. In fact, the kids were trying to be helpful. This was 5th grade so it was 10 and 11 years olds. So, I think if this kid had an issue it was not explained correctly to the volleyball team. I didn't think they were allowed exactly. Isn't that a possible privacy breech? What if they felt that giving the child a label would maybe make it worse so the coach just said be nice. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JudoMom Posted November 10, 2011 Share Posted November 10, 2011 These are great ideas. I thought about being the one to keep an eye on her. I love the idea of the Mike's bribe, but the YMCA might have different ideas. Yes, the season is over and will have been by several weeks. The girls go to different schools (we're the only homeschoolers) and won't see each other probably til next year, and I don't think the 'manager' will be around then. Next year it gets competitive, so several of the girls will not be around then either. I'm not worried about FB. Only a couple of girls are on it (and not my dd) and I'm friends with them, and I'm fairly certain this girl is not on it. Her mother is very old school--not that I'm new school... Honestly, it's not dd's intention to be mean--we've been through lots of 'mean girl' discussion, and as I mentioned, she's usually the person standing up for others--it's the middle child sense of justice. She's constantly defending the neighbor girl who is on the team b/c she's not very good, and the other girls thought she lost some games for them (not true), but dd will already be trying to integrate this girl w/the rest of the crew. So glad we don't have to deal with these issues very often--usually we're just talking them through. Thanks for all the replies. Laura Given this information, I would not invite the girl. I would let your dd enjoy the day. :grouphug: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Word Nerd Posted November 10, 2011 Share Posted November 10, 2011 This is simple "I am not including you because you are different." I've read everything the OP has posted, and I don't see how you can make such a definite assumption based only on the information provided in the thread. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TXBeth Posted November 10, 2011 Share Posted November 10, 2011 Wow, that is fairly brutal to both me and my dd, especially since you are making this judgment based on a small slice of our lives. My dd11 has one of the strongest moral codes of any girl I know. She has stood up to boys twice her size when another little kid has been bullied. At times I have feared for her safety. She is often the girl who will reconcile snarky feuding friends. She has foregone other birthday parties so as to not cause strife among her various social groups. It just seemed that at age 12 she might for once have complete say over her birthday party invite list. We don't know if this girl is special needs or just obnoxious. I avoid her mother for similar reasons. However, I think we will invite her (dd is ok with this, but not as excited about her party as before and that's ok). I told ds he will be her friend for the party. (Hopefully, he won't have a conflict). dd7 also volunteered to be her friend as well. Thanks for all the suggestion as they have helped us resolve this. Laura I think this makes a difference. You have a girl who is obnoxious and annoying, and your daughter doesn't want her at the party. I don't think there's any reason to assume she is SN and force DD to invite her. Some people really are just obnoxious and annoying, and age 12 is old enough to begin learning that this type of behavior doesn't win you friends. I have already stated no I wouldn't feel the same way. If there were a mean child or a child that they just didn't get along then no I wouldn't expect it. Excluding a child just because they are different through no fault of their own then yes I would be updet with my kid because no matter what spin you put on it, it is mean. The choices they are making as young adults are shaping the adult lives they will have. Why would I want my kid to grow up as a meanie? Where do you get the idea that this child is "different through no fault of her own." OP said she is a difficult child and doesn't get along with anyone. This doesn't mean she is SN. Again, she might just be a brat. No I was giving you an opinion on the question you asked based upon the information you provided. I apologize if you don't like my opinion but after all you did ask for it. This is what i would do with my child but then again my child has had the upbringing to be accepting of all people based on how they treat her not their abilities. You had to know coming to this board where there are plenty of moms who have special needs children you were going to get a different opinion?? Again if my opinion was brutal I apologize for not sugar coating it for you. Yes, we get it, your child is perfect. But the OP's DD is wanting to exclude this child because of how the child behaves. I don't force my kids to play with others who are mean to them, and I also don't force them to play with kids that are just annoying because they are immature, spoiled, different personality, etc. If I know of a special need, of course I will try to teach them to make allowances for that, but I don't think kids should have to make friends with everyone in the world. I choose my friends, and my kids can choose theirs. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mona100 Posted November 10, 2011 Share Posted November 10, 2011 I didn't think they were allowed exactly. Isn't that a possible privacy breech? What if they felt that giving the child a label would maybe make it worse so the coach just said be nice. So, after the volleyball team is nice to the manager because they are told too but due to whatever reason the manager is not nice back, so OP still has to invite the manager? Doesn't make sense. It makes more sense to tell everyone the manager has an issue so the manager won't be treated as badly or not badly at all. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
unsinkable Posted November 10, 2011 Share Posted November 10, 2011 (edited) changed my mind Edited November 10, 2011 by unsinkable Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
QueenCat Posted November 10, 2011 Share Posted November 10, 2011 So, after the volleyball team is nice to the manager because they are told too but due to whatever reason the manager is not nice back, so OP still has to invite the manager? Doesn't make sense. It makes more sense to tell everyone the manager has an issue so the manager won't be treated as badly or not badly at all. Legally, coaches are not always able to share the "why". Not without specific permission from the parents on exactly what can be said. The fact that the coach told the players "to be nice" tells me that it is highly likely the manager was placed there to help her be a part of something. That practice is something often discussed in IEP meetings. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nakia Posted November 10, 2011 Share Posted November 10, 2011 Then i guess I am brutal. In my thought anyway because this would never be an issue in this home, she can happily hang out with an average kid or walk the mall with a downs syndrome child. It would make no difference to her because again she had been raised that way. If she suddenly started acting differently then yeah, I would call off the party and start working on why she would think that is acceptable. I think it's pretty darn rude to assume the op's daughter hasn't been "raised better." No one here thinks it's acceptable to mistreat someone. But I do think it's acceptable to allow children to invite whomever they want to their own party, for heaven's sake. That doesn't sound like mistreatment to me. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nakia Posted November 10, 2011 Share Posted November 10, 2011 changed my mind Oh, come on now! Don't leave us hangin'! :D Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
unsinkable Posted November 10, 2011 Share Posted November 10, 2011 Oh, come on now! Don't leave us hangin'! :D It was pretty brutal. :lol: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nakia Posted November 10, 2011 Share Posted November 10, 2011 It was pretty brutal. :lol: I'm not skeered! :tongue_smilie: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
twoforjoy Posted November 10, 2011 Share Posted November 10, 2011 I would also look at myself and what I had possibly done or not done as a parent that my child thinks this way. My daughter has been around special needs children and adults her entire life and she could care less that someone talks loud and if she had a friend who acted weird then I know they wouldn't be her friend for very long because she has no tolerance of that type of behavior. Oh, get off your high horse. We're talking about preteen girls. I'm glad you have raised a perfect kid who would never, ever exclude anybody, but you can have the best, most accepting, most inclusive parents in the world and still do things way witchier than the situation described in the OP when you are a preteen. I hope if your children do something questionable, you are both extended more grace than you seem willing to extend here. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
twoforjoy Posted November 10, 2011 Share Posted November 10, 2011 She still talks about how awful it was and how much she regrets me making her do it. So I vote for no, as long as she's not that likely to find out about it. I have a reasonably close relationship with my dd, and it really hurts that she is still so upset (5 years later) about a decision I made. And now I'm getting on my high horse: seriously? After five years your daughter is still mad about being forced to invite somebody to a party? I think maybe she needs to be reminded that she's led a pretty charmed life if that's the most serious thing she's got to hold a grudge about. I'd probably make my kid decide to either invite everybody, including this girl, or only invite her closest friends from the team. And if she invited everybody and was upset, I'd understand, and sympathize for a bit, and remind her how hard doing the kind thing can be. (I'd probably also offer to take her and a couple of her closest friends out for a fun meal or outing.) But, five years later, my response would be to tell her to get over it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
unsinkable Posted November 10, 2011 Share Posted November 10, 2011 (edited) I'm not skeered! :tongue_smilie: Is it irony when someone is defending someone described as being socially inappropriate by being socially inappropriate? And then couching at as brutal honesty? :lol: Edited November 10, 2011 by unsinkable Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nakia Posted November 10, 2011 Share Posted November 10, 2011 Is it irony when someone is defending someone described as being socially inappropriate by being socially inappropriate? And then couching at as brutal honesty? :lol: What does it mean that I had to read that five times before I got it? :001_huh: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
unsinkable Posted November 10, 2011 Share Posted November 10, 2011 What does it mean that I had to read that five times before I got it? :001_huh: It means that I $uck as a writer. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nakia Posted November 10, 2011 Share Posted November 10, 2011 It means that I $uck as a writer. :lol::lol::lol::lol::lol: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JudoMom Posted November 10, 2011 Share Posted November 10, 2011 Is it irony when someone is defending someone described as being socially inappropriate by being socially inappropriate? And then couching at as brutal honesty? :lol: :lol::lol::lol: Let's just say I typed a post about this very thing and deleted it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rosie_0801 Posted November 10, 2011 Share Posted November 10, 2011 Sounds like a no win situation, doesn't it? Don't invite annoying girl, which makes you a mean jerk in some people's eyes. Invite annoying girl, which makes you socially responsible for a crappy party, because it is no longer a party but a babysitting social experience. There's nothing like having a lousy time because you know your guests are and they are because they were promised a party and they are young enough to think they are entitled to enjoy it. Cancel the party, which means punishing the birthday girl for knowing someone she doesn't like. Kudos to the OP. I know how it would have turned out at my place had I been the child in the situation. Rosie Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Heather in Neverland Posted November 10, 2011 Share Posted November 10, 2011 Having a son who has OFTEN been left out because the other kids think he is annoying/weird (he has Aspergers), I had deep appreciation for the parents who did make sure he was included in special things like birthday parties. Happens less and less as kids get older and parents let them make the choice. Which is why our parties were often big, as I would never leave one person of a group out. They will find out, even if the season is over, and the kids go to different schools. Mine always did, but if I found out about it first, at least I was prepared. Usually hurt me as much as it hurt my child, even when he hit the teen years. That breaks my heart. :grouphug: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Julie in CA Posted November 10, 2011 Share Posted November 10, 2011 She thinks that maybe some of her friends will at best ignore this girl, and possibly at worst be mean to her. I would advise my dd to find new friends. Immediately. Before the party. All of the kindness done before will be pretty much without worth if the girl is snubbed right at the end. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
clarkacademy Posted November 10, 2011 Share Posted November 10, 2011 Oh for Pete's sake. I am not assuming anything on anyone or judging. I do not have a perfect kid she is a kid there is no such thing. I made a simple statement on what i would do if my kid acted that way and for the record I am not the only person on this list who thinks so. I gave a darn opinion even apologized for my own opinion. Now you can all get off your high horse and raise your kids to be as mean or nice as you want. To all the ones judging have you ever had your kid who is different cry on your shoulder cause they don't honestly understand what they are doing to not have friends? If you haven't I don't think your opinion is worth much to be honest because you will obviously not understand. Don't act as if you do cause honestly it is an insult to the mothers who live it everyday. I am not the only one is this thread to get the undertone that the child is special needs so if you are going to wonder how I came to that opinion maybe you should question everyone else who has that opinion. Oh and for the record my kids recieve alot of grace I have two special needs kids. For the mom who who has the son treated so badly I am so sorry for you it's not fair. It's not fair that in this day and age people are not a bit more tolerant of certain things. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jujsky Posted November 10, 2011 Share Posted November 10, 2011 Is the season over for now? That make a difference, IMHO. If they're all going to be standing around at practice talking about and the manager has to stand there, hearing about, and not be invited, well, that's pretty mean. If the season is over, and it's not likely they will all be in one place at one time for a month or two, then it's not an issue. It is a hard thing, for sure. Sounds like you have taught your daughter what the right choice is, though, in normal circumstances, ie everyone gets invited. But as they get older, unfortunately, it becomes more natural to invite those that you actually enjoy spending time with. :iagree: If the season is done and they're not going to be together in a group, I don't see a problem with not inviting her. If that's not the case, the girl needs to be invited. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
clarkacademy Posted November 10, 2011 Share Posted November 10, 2011 I would advise my dd to find new friends. Immediately. Before the party.All of the kindness done before will be pretty much without worth if the girl is snubbed right at the end. That is wonderful advice I would give my child.:iagree: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lauracolumbus Posted November 10, 2011 Author Share Posted November 10, 2011 I think we should stop this thread. My original question had to do with whether it was unreasonable for a 12 year old to choose her invites to a party if that meant excluding a potentially mean/annoying, possibly special needs girl. This 12 year old has demonstrated her kindness in years past and skipped out on having birthday parties to avoid other socially difficult situations. As I mentioned in my post this morning, we will invite this girl. I appreciate all the constructive feedback and the suggestions to make this go more smoothly. Thank you, Laura Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Julie in CA Posted November 10, 2011 Share Posted November 10, 2011 This 12 year old has demonstrated her kindness in years past and skipped out on having birthday parties to avoid other socially difficult situations. Laura, I sure hope you weren't viewing my comment as a criticism of your dd--it isn't. She sounds like a nice girl. Her friends though, don't sound so nice, if she's worried that they will either ignore or be unkind. She deserves to have friends that are every bit as nice as she is! :grouphug: And, I'm sorry, but once you ask for opinions, it's hard to get people not to comment. :001_smile: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jennifer3141 Posted November 10, 2011 Share Posted November 10, 2011 :iagree: Inviting the whole team EXCEPT one person is kinda mean. It is. I get why you don't want the other girl but I forsee bigger problems down the road without her too. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
unsinkable Posted November 11, 2011 Share Posted November 11, 2011 Oh for Pete's sake. I am not assuming anything on anyone or judging. . Now you can all get off your high horse and raise your kids to be as mean or nice as you want. . Heigh ho, Silver. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lauracolumbus Posted November 11, 2011 Author Share Posted November 11, 2011 Laura, I sure hope you weren't viewing my comment as a criticism of your dd--it isn't. She sounds like a nice girl. Her friends though, don't sound so nice, if she's worried that they will either ignore or be unkind. She deserves to have friends that are every bit as nice as she is! :grouphug: And, I'm sorry, but once you ask for opinions, it's hard to get people not to comment. :001_smile: Julie, Not at all. In fact it's b/c of the opinions voiced here that I realized that we really needed to invite the girl and try to limit the fallout. Some of dd's friends are nice, but this is a large group from her volleyball team. Thanks again for everyone's input. Laura Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
barbarajon Posted November 11, 2011 Share Posted November 11, 2011 While I would normally vote for inclusion, in this case I would likely allow my daughter to not invite this other girl. The season is over, the girls all go to different schools, and they're not all friendly with the manager so unlikely to be talking with her about it. It seems like the team element is not as important now as it would be in the active season. But more importantly, if she is there you think there's the chance that she will be treated poorly or excluded by some of the other girls. If my kid were the manager child, I think I'd want her to be left out all together (and hopefully unaware of the situation) than placed in a situation where she was highly likely to be facing ill treatment. That said, if you think you can find someone to basically babysit this child during the party, then maybe that solution would feel good to your daughter and work well for all concerned. :iagree: Give both the options to your daughter, let her decide. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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