Guest Posted November 9, 2011 Share Posted November 9, 2011 (edited) I did year 1 Tapestry of Grace a couple years ago for LG and loved it. I was looking at it again for my Upper Grammar students. I saw one week the reading assignment just for history (UG) was over 55 pages. Does anyone really read all that? I wanted to use TOG, but every time I see those crazy long reading assignments I decide not to do it. I really don't understand how they could assign that many pages to be read, and that was just for history. There were still literature, and other readings for that week. Edited November 9, 2011 by Guest Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TXMary2 Posted November 9, 2011 Share Posted November 9, 2011 I did year 1 Tapestry of Grace a couple years ago for LG and loved it. I was looking at it again for my Upper Grammar students. I saw one week the reading assignment just for history (UG) was over 55 pages. Does anyone really read all that? I wanted to use TOG, but every time I see those crazy long reading assignments I decide not to do it. I really don't understand how they could assign that many pages to be read, and that was just for history. There were still literature, and other readings for that week. I don't have year 1, but I do know TOG says UG students should be reading on their own. 55 pages is 11 pages per day - not a biggie for a kid to read independently for one subject. JMO of course. If I had a struggling reader and need to read aloud everything, it might be a little much. I'd probably take two weeks to do weeks like that, if that were the case. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shanvan Posted November 9, 2011 Share Posted November 9, 2011 I did year 1 Tapestry of Grace a couple years ago for LG and loved it. I was looking at it again for my Upper Grammar students. I saw one week the reading assignment just for history (UG) was over 55 pages. Does anyone really read all that? I wanted to use TOG, but every time I see those crazy long reading assignments I decide not to do it. I really don't understand how they could assign that many pages to be read, and that was just for history. There were still literature, and other readings for that week. If you think it is too much reading for your dc you can drop down to the lower grammar assignments, use an alternate selection, or read some of it aloud each morning, or split the assignment into part read aloud and part independent reading. Or, you could use a spine as a read aloud and just assign some of the independent reading. That is part of the beauty of TOG; you decide what works for you and your dc. UG is assuming approximately 4th grade reading ability as a minimum. I do think that a fourth grader should be able to read 55 pages of history in a week. If you spread the assignment over 6 days, that's only 9 pages a day (aprox). Some dc may not be ready for that and need it modified. I have an UG student with some comprehension issues and she does a mixture of UG and LG reading, plus we use some alternate sources and dialectic assignments as read alouds. So, to answer your question, yes, some dc do actually read all the assignments and some do a mixture while working with their dc to lead them to the point where they will be able to do all the reading. I suspect later this year I will be able to use the UG assignments as written (mostly, though there is one book I substituted b/c I thought it was just too much). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted November 9, 2011 Share Posted November 9, 2011 Here is an example of what I am talking about. These are the reading assignments for that week... -52 pages of Usborne Internet Linked Encyclopedia of the Ancient World -The whole book of Pyramid by David MacAulay -5 Chapter of a read aloud -Plus Arts/Worldview reading I don't think reading 10 pages a day of certain books are bad, but to read 10+ pages a day of the UILEAW seems like a lot. I haven't actually ever seen the UILEAW so maybe it isn't as much reading as I think, but if it is anything like other Usborne books that would be a lot for one day...all week long. Plus the other readings for that week. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shanvan Posted November 9, 2011 Share Posted November 9, 2011 Here is an example of what I am talking about. These are the reading assignments for that week... -52 pages of Usborne Internet Linked Encyclopedia of the Ancient World -The whole book of Pyramid by David MacAulay -5 Chapter of a read aloud -Plus Arts/Worldview reading I don't think reading 10 pages a day of certain books are bad, but to read 10+ pages a day of the UILEAW seems like a lot. I haven't actually ever seen the UILEAW so maybe it isn't as much reading as I think, but if it is anything like other Usborne books that would be a lot for one day...all week long. Plus the other readings for that week. Maybe it is a lot for some dc, but they should have time allotted during the day for their reading. So, during literature/reading scheduled time your dc should be reading for 20-30 mins and the same during history scheduled time. That alone should allow most of the reading to be accomplished. I did Pyramid as one of our morning read alouds and we finished it in about 2 days. The read aloud assignment can be done at any time--even bedtime (our favorite time for these)-- and can be a chapter a day. Or you could skip it all together. I cut out some read alouds so we can spend more time on others. Also, these are suggested readings and you need to decide what is appropriate for your family. The read alouds are not necessarily part of the core reading. I think if you take it week by week and develop a schedule for when the reading will get accomplished it is not as difficult as it looks. It looks overwhelming if you list it all out. I actually sit down and schedule dd's reading by the unit. If a week has quite a bit of reading for her to tackle I will even break it down by day for her. I have found that when I do this she usually doesn't stick to the schedule and reads ahead. I still think it makes the assignments look less overwhelming for her. Later this year we will work up to her scheduling her own reading. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted November 9, 2011 Share Posted November 9, 2011 Ok, thanks for your help. I guess I was just comparing it to the reading in other history programs I have seen...K12, Sonlight, MFW, HOD. I don't think TOG is for us. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
yobella Posted November 9, 2011 Share Posted November 9, 2011 We are on week 12 and the week you mentioned was a particularly challenging week. I ended up reading the Pyramids book and some of the encyclopedia. Most weeks don't have as much reading as that week did. I read aloud some of the UG selections if I think my LG student would enjoy them. It is okay to just assign your student what they can handle. That's what I am doing. Paula Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SewLittleTime Posted November 9, 2011 Share Posted November 9, 2011 I don't have year 1, but my UG student doesn't have any issues completing the reading assignments. He reads early in the week, and then the end of the week is left for reading of his choice. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hedgehogs4 Posted November 9, 2011 Share Posted November 9, 2011 My UG has no problem finishing the reading at all. In fact, he asked me for more--so I am starting to bring in the dialectic reading as well. He loves it. The great thing about TOG is that you can do as much or as little as you need / want. Some weeks you may decide to pare it down due to the topic or time restraints. Other weeks you may decide to do it all and an alternate, just for fun. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NancyNellen Posted November 10, 2011 Share Posted November 10, 2011 I am currently doing Year 1 UG with a 3rd grader. He is a solid but S-L-O-W reader, so I make some of the reading independent and some of it read-aloud. That particular week you mentioned I read Pyramid aloud and we alternated pages in the Usborne. By the end of the year I hope to have him reading everything independently. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PeterPan Posted November 10, 2011 Share Posted November 10, 2011 Summer, I'll offer you a chaste piece of advice. Some people like history and think nothing of doing all that work in TOG, love it, think it fine. Some people die. I hate history, and my dd loves it. I've finally given up trying to teach her, and we do the VP online, self-paced history. Absolute BEST hundreds of dollars I've spent on curriculum stuff EVER. Check it out. Don't be afraid to do less than the crowd. Not everyone likes history. Oh, and for anyone who'd like to spit about it not being age-appropriate, the answer is you hand them a pile of books to go with it. But at least the baseline gets done WITHOUT ME and in a way she enjoys and retains. Love it. Notice in my sig she's doing the two american history courses this year. We did MARR (middle ages) last year for 6th. And next year, for 8th, I'm thinking we may do a slew of TC courses on the middle ages. You can't tell she likes the Middle Ages, can you? :) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shanezomom Posted November 10, 2011 Share Posted November 10, 2011 Summer, from what I remember of TOG vs Sonlight, I always thought TOG selections seemed more coherent. I remember Sonlight appearing to skip around and the number of books looked overwhelming. The aspect of TOG that I appreciate is the discussion it encourages b/w adult and student. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted November 10, 2011 Share Posted November 10, 2011 Summer, I'll offer you a chaste piece of advice. Some people like history and think nothing of doing all that work in TOG, love it, think it fine. Some people die. I hate history, and my dd loves it. I've finally given up trying to teach her, and we do the VP online, self-paced history. Absolute BEST hundreds of dollars I've spent on curriculum stuff EVER. Check it out. Don't be afraid to do less than the crowd. Not everyone likes history. Oh, and for anyone who'd like to spit about it not being age-appropriate, the answer is you hand them a pile of books to go with it. But at least the baseline gets done WITHOUT ME and in a way she enjoys and retains. Love it. Notice in my sig she's doing the two american history courses this year. We did MARR (middle ages) last year for 6th. And next year, for 8th, I'm thinking we may do a slew of TC courses on the middle ages. You can't tell she likes the Middle Ages, can you? :) Thanks OhElizabeth, I LOVE history, but I am time constrained right now with a two year old and a 6 months old. My older kids were very laid back as babies/toddlers, but my youngest two are the complete opposite. They are needy and need my attention 100%. Plus my 2 year old is needing more attention because he is speech delayed. I have heard of VP's online history just recently, but I have not looked into it much. Could my third and fourth grader both do Old Testament and Ancient History? Do I have to buy it for each of them (I am assuming yes)? I am very interested in this. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PeterPan Posted November 10, 2011 Share Posted November 10, 2011 Bingo, that's my point, the reality check. Their online history is fabulous, and yes your kids could do it. They give multi-child discounts. My dd (7th gr, age 12) did their NTGR during the one month free trial and LOVED it. (Yes, that was a lot of work to get it done that fast!) She did MARR last year, and now she's doing the 2 american courses. I've put a lot of her stuff to the computer this year, and it has been really good for us. I'm not saying it's perfect, but the thing that gets DONE is what counts. That discount on the VP courses is first kid full price, all the rest 1/2 price after that. It's still not cheap, but at least there's some break. And it really is super-duper, duper good. One week's worth of lessons takes about 2 1/2 hours usually to do. At least that's what I plan. So when I say she is doing two courses in a school year, that means she's spending about 5 hours a week on their lessons and then time beyond that to do the reading. For her, as a history lover, it's only a question of how much I'll let her do a day. I sort of hold her back, like a horse in a race, hehe. So normal pace is 2 1/2 hours a week of their lessons (that's not exact, it's probably a bit less) and then any optional book basket or lit reading they do. But there's nothing you HAVE to do. Anything you want is fine. They specify some lit assignments, so there's some of that structure built in if you want it. But none of that requires me to make happen. You could proceed that way a couple years, get to where things are easier, THEN go back to TOG and knock it out when your kids are a bit older and needing that discussion and whatnot in TOG. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
johnandtinagilbert Posted November 10, 2011 Share Posted November 10, 2011 I think you might be missing the "build up to" part of TOG. THere is always some transition time built into the program. In other words, the upper grammar student who is 3rd year upper grammar should easily knock out that reading, but a new UG student may have to read about 1/2 the material himself and you read aloud the other half. Also, you can never look at TOG in 1-week to get a feel. Often times, when there is a lot fo reading one week, there is little in surrounding weeks. It's okay to spread it out a bit. It's also okay to skip some of the literature. There are weeks when our lit. reading time is replaced with history reading and vice versa. I suggest, humbly, that being able to refuse the buffet is the problema here. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheAutumnOak Posted November 15, 2011 Share Posted November 15, 2011 Here is an example of what I am talking about. These are the reading assignments for that week... -52 pages of Usborne Internet Linked Encyclopedia of the Ancient World -The whole book of Pyramid by David MacAulay -5 Chapter of a read aloud -Plus Arts/Worldview reading I don't think reading 10 pages a day of certain books are bad, but to read 10+ pages a day of the UILEAW seems like a lot. I haven't actually ever seen the UILEAW so maybe it isn't as much reading as I think, but if it is anything like other Usborne books that would be a lot for one day...all week long. Plus the other readings for that week. I remember this...This was week 2, and I was also concerned about the amount of reading in that week... My oldest is doing Upper Grammar in TOG 1 this year...He did all of the reading that week with the exception of "Pyramid" by David MacAulay...I felt he would enjoy "Mummies Made in Egypt" (the LG suggestion) more, and he wouldn't have gotten through that book...I also substituted "Peeps From Many Lands" with the out of print "A Place in the Sun"... So far, that is the most reading he has done in a week...He has gotten much better at reading since doing TOG, as he has never been a strong reader...He welcomes the rest of the reading now after getting through that week :tongue_smilie:... The Usborne books has lots of pictures, so that also helps... If you are wanting to do it, I wouldn't worry about the reading...You could asign the LG book for a week and also not asign a book at all if it is too much...What I am worried about is year 2! :001_unsure: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
freesia Posted November 15, 2011 Share Posted November 15, 2011 Because there are no questions tied to the readings, UG is very easy to adapt. The week you are talking about I read the Pyramid book out loud to my third grader. I chose about 20 pages for her to read (the ones I thought would interest her the most.) Most weeks she has been able to handle the entire UG history reading. While she is a good student, she is not highly gifted or anything. We did Sonlight for years and loved it. The difference is that most of the history reading at this level is read by the parent to the student in addition to a read aloud that goes along with the period. We loved having conversations as we read. However, if you are overwhelmed for time, TOG, with its independent history reading, would actually be easier for you to handle. It is one of the reasons we switched this year. I now read aloud "as much as I can" but feel confident the dc's can handle the reading on their own. Of course there are lots of other great programs out there, too. HTH, Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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