Teens...

[Cheryl in NM]

Okay, I'm looking for advice from those who have been in the trenches and made it out. Of course others are welcome, but I'm really looking for advice from those who have BTDT.

 

Problem 1: My ds, 15, does not respect me. He thinks he's an adult and on equal standing with me. He's always been this way, when he was little we used to call him the little Sarge. It was somewhat cute at 4 but became increasingly annoying as he grew older. We have not successfully gotten through to him on this subject. He will tell me that he is NOT going to do something; he will say I can't make him. He will decide to disobey because he thinks the rule is stupid (pretty normal, I think, although not acceptable). When I tell him to do something he complies, eventually. First he has to pet the dog, tell me a story, go to the bathroom, get a drink. He doesn't just comply.

 

Problem 2: He is not proud of his work. When I set a deadline he will frequently not meet it and then blame me, especially to other people. He has about 12 pages of LifePac work to do a day, 2 Geometry lessons on at home days, a weekly 3 minute speech to prepare and a weekly IEW lesson to prepare. He gets screen time when it's done and after 3 pm. Sometimes he's done by noon, others (usually when I'm not home) he works into the evening. Then he's mad at me, "stupid rule". When I'm out for the morning it throws him off. He's usually watched tv some, while eating, he's spent time talking to Dad before Dad goes to work, he plays his guitar or practices drum for church, he spends excessive amounts of time in the bathroom.

 

Problem 3: He's down on himself. He says he's stupid. This has been a common thread in his life. I don't know how to counter it. I tell him he's smart he say "yeah, right". This usually happens when he's overtired or hungry or mad about something else. I personally think there might be a grain of truth in it for him, but I mostly think it's a manipulation tool.

 

I would love advice on how to help my son. Please be gentle, I know I've made mistakes and had many bad parenting moments, but I'm willing to learn.

 

TIA :)

[Joker]

I'm not a parent to teens yet but I wanted to bring up one thing because I read your other thread about speech. This has nothing to do with #1 on your list because I'm not there yet.

 

By the time I was a teenager I felt like my parents didn't expect much out of me. I grew up seeing them expect and demand quite a bit from my siblings. When it was my turn they said the words but there was little expectation and few demands.

 

I don't know if I'm saying this right. I wanted them to push me because they knew I could do it. When they didn't push me I felt like it was because they didn't believe in me. I did start to feel stupid and it took a while (a few years after high school) for me to realize that wasn't the case.

 

I only bring it up because in the other thread he got out of doing something and I don't know how often that happens. It could be he thinks that you feel he isn't very capable and that's why he's allowed to shirk the responsibility.

[Pamela H in Texas]

Honestly? Being a little further down the road with the exact same child? I'd give it a year or so. The difference is AMAZING.

[Ottakee]

First does he have any special needs---ADD, ADHD, learning disabilities, etc? If so, address those as needed.

 

How invovled is DAD? At this age, DAD is very important and you can't "make" your son do anything but dad reinforcing the respect he should have for mom should help.

 

He might need more responsibility and "charge" of his life (within reason) but then also face the consequences of those decisions.

[Cheryl in NM]

I'm not a parent to teens yet but I wanted to bring up one thing because I read your other thread about speech. This has nothing to do with #1 on your list because I'm not there yet.

 

By the time I was a teenager I felt like my parents didn't expect much out of me. I grew up seeing them expect and demand quite a bit from my siblings. When it was my turn they said the words but there was little expectation and few demands.

 

I don't know if I'm saying this right. I wanted them to push me because they knew I could do it. When they didn't push me I felt like it was because they didn't believe in me. I did start to feel stupid and it took a while (a few years after high school) for me to realize that wasn't the case.

 

I only bring it up because in the other thread he got out of doing something and I don't know how often that happens. It could be he thinks that you feel he isn't very capable and that's why he's allowed to shirk the responsibility.

 

That's a great point! He actually told me today that we don't believe in him. We do. We've told him that he can do things, even when he's unsure of himself. We were much harder on his older siblings, alot of his childhood got lost dealing with my oppositionally deviant step-daughter and custody visitations. I can see how he'd think we don't believe in him based on the lessened expectations. Thanks!

[Cheryl in NM]

Honestly? Being a little further down the road with the exact same child? I'd give it a year or so. The difference is AMAZING.

 

Thanks! That feels like a big hug! And it's been true in the past. It's just so hard to remember when everyday is so hard!

[Lady Florida.]

First does he have any special needs---ADD, ADHD, learning disabilities, etc? If so, address those as needed.

 

 

 

As the mother of a teenage boy with raging ADHD, that was my first thought. Many of the behaviors you described are common in those with undiagnosed ADHD or LD. Even when it's diagnosed, they often need help in accepting that their special needs are a part of who they are.

[Cheryl in NM]

First does he have any special needs---ADD, ADHD, learning disabilities, etc? If so, address those as needed.

 

How invovled is DAD? At this age, DAD is very important and you can't "make" your son do anything but dad reinforcing the respect he should have for mom should help.

 

He might need more responsibility and "charge" of his life (within reason) but then also face the consequences of those decisions.

 

No special needs. He'd like some because he thinks it will excuse his behavior. So when his mind drifts instead of re-focusing he says he's ADD. When I compare his behavior to ADD/ADHD profiles he's not there at all. I haven't seen anything else that might be an ld.

 

Dad works exactly half of the week, but it's long days. Ds sees his dad 2 work days a week before Dh goes in, but only for maybe an hour. The other half of the week Dh is home all day long. Dh stops Ds when he's being disrespectful and tells him to stop. He has gotten right in ds's face and told him that no one talks to his wife that way. Nothing seems to work long term. Although, Ds has been somewhat better lately in that when I call him on the behavior he bows his head and says sorry. I don't like the whole bowed head thing, it makes me wonder if he patronizing me or being sincere. He seems sincere.

[Night Elf]

It sounds to me like he needs a strict schedule, something that tells him exactly what to do each day. Then he needs a way to be held accountable for it. I'm sorry, but blaming mommy for being gone is just a cop out. He's got one foot in two worlds, kid and young adult. He just might need some help getting that foot in the young adult world planted a bit more firmly. If I was you, I would sit down with him and write out a daily schedule with some firmly stated consequence for not having that work done. When he's working, and technically he's old enough to get a job now, his boss will not be standing over him directing his every move. He has to come to terms with that, own it, and handle it.

 

I'm working on this with my ds15. I still make his daily schedule but I spend some time every day talking to him about how I decided what to schedule for that day. However, I believe my son's issues stem from Aspergers. He's come a long way since he started high school but he has oh so much more to go!

 

My son's major motivation is having his weekends totally free. He can hem and haw all week and manage to get out of some of his lessons on weekdays but then I'm in his room on both Saturday and Sunday telling him to come to the table and finish his work. I can't help you with the attitude thing. I don't get that from my son. I'm not sure how I would handle that. :grouphug:

[Remudamom]

I've had three boys, two are still 17 and one grown married.

 

1-Your dh should step in here. Everytime you ask your son to do something he should know that your dh is firmly behind your requests. He should figuratively see dad behind you backing up everything you say.

 

2-This sounds like plain old being irresponsible to me. If he can't get to work on his work then he has to face up to it. Stick to your rules and gently point out that he can not blame you for not getting his work done. My boys grew up doing their schoolwork and working on the ranch. They learned that it all had to get finished.

 

3- This does sound manipulative. I'd just give him sincere compliments and reinforcement. If he does a bad job on something don't gloss it over, just show him how to make it better. If he feels stupid then he needs to do something about it. If you are stupid at math, work harder, ask for help. I'm betting it's just something he says though.

 

I only had a problem with #1. It's normal for them to try to break loose from mom at that age. Not obeying immediately is part of them trying to prove they are independent from you. Now that mine are older I've noticed they do things for me if not gladly, then without any comments or messing around. I think we're even getting closer to the gladly part.

[AK_Mom4]

We are still working on it here....:grouphug:

 

The thing that helps the most is time. DS20 passed thru this phase and we survived. DD17 is just getting out of it. DS15 is a work in progress. There are days when I just want to put a pillow over my head and crawl back in bed.

 

The only advise I have is to try not to let them get you on the ropes. DS15 gripes, moans, complains, and dawdles. He also compares himself to his older brother - regardless of what we say. I usually take the "relentlessly cheerful" approach with him - drives him nuts, but if I can outlast him, the cheerful kid usually reappears. And it's darn difficult some days. But he is better this year than last (he will be 16 next month), so I have hope.....

[Cheryl in NM]

Remudamom - you said your sons had to help with the ranch. We have horses. I hear, why can't you feed tonight Mom, they're not even my horses! Did you hear that? How do you foster the "we're a family and this is what this family does"?

 

Night Elf-I already create a daily schedule for him. I tell him what pages to read, what questions to answer and what science experiments to do (they need to be done with myself or dad-I try to leave those for dad). I just keep thinking that he's 15, shouldn't he be able to break up his work based on a weekly deadline? I guess not.

 

I'm glad to hear so many say that time will make this all better. It's just a stage of life and I need to be strong and consistent it sounds like.

[Sharon H in IL]

[sharon scribbles notes on dealing with teen boys]

 

Thanks, moms of teens!

[Sophia]

The best thing you can do is respond with logic and be matter-of-fact.

Trust me, it will help keep you sane.

 

Re. #1: We all have to follow rules, even the stupid rules. Respect us or don't respect us, you still have to do what you're told. Privileges were consistently taken away. It was beyond exhausting as ds constantly tested us, but it was worth it~he's now our biggest ally when the younger ones challenge rules ;).

 

#2: It sounds like he needs to have a dayplanner and be held accountable for his day. We held ds to a schedule and checked on him regularly. He hated it and often ignored it. :glare: But when his work wasn't done, it was there in black and white that he failed to do what he should. Consequences followed.

Blaming others for our problems is just not accepted here.

 

#3: That does sound manipulative.

My ds never said that~he's not exactly lacking in the self-confidence department :rolleyes:~however, he also knows how we would have responded. Having a low I.Q. doesn't mean you don't have to do schoolwork, it just means you'll be working from a different book. So sit down and get it done.

 

Be patient. Pray constantly.

They grow up.

Ds never breaks curfew and regularly calls to see if we need anything on his way home. It's hard work getting them to the other side of that boy/man stage, but so worth it once they're there.

[Deb in NZ]

Honestly? Being a little further down the road with the exact same child? I'd give it a year or so. The difference is AMAZING.

 

:iagree:

 

BTDT with ds#1. He's much better now, but does occasionally show some of the attitudes / behaviors the OP mentioned. At that age IMHO boys need to answer to an older male (Dad, scout leader, coach, etc.). They are in the process of breaking away from being under Mom's wing & we need to let them go. If they fail (& they will at some point) we need to let them accept the consequences. It's much better to learn the price of failure at 15yo, than much older. Sometimes rescuing them does more damage to their self-esteem. Ds#1 has always been the dc who drives me nuts & pushes the limits, but I know I can depend on him when I need him as he has shown me than many times as well. Ds#1 struggles with feeling that he just doesn't measure up to his peers academically, but by choosing a different path in his education he has passed his peers that were in kindy with him years ago. He has finally begun to accept he isn't as stupid as he thought he was. Gaining some adult skills (like driving) made the biggest difference for him.

 

Ds#2 is a different kid, but I can see that the time for me to begin to back away is coming soon. It's hard, but I know that the young man who will replace my little boy will be worth the headaches to come.

 

Blessings,

Edited November 8, 2011 by Deb in NZ

[dirty ethel rackham]

In addition to just plain waiting it out ...

 

• Don't emotionally engage. Be matter of fact about consequences. "Oh, so sorry. You must still do blah blah blah" and move on.
  
• Feed frequently. Make sure he has healthy snacks.
  
• Lots of physical exercise including hard labor. Those attitude hormones need lots of exercise to keep them in check. Moving wood piles, heavy boxes, demanding sport, push ups for misbehavior, etc. I have stopped the car and kicked out a mouthy teen to make them do push ups. Attitude usually improves.
  
• Regular sleep and eating schedules. They may seem more mature, but then they backslide. I found that providing more structure helped. I planned out the schoolwork by how long it should take and we would set timers.
  

 

 

Be consistent and emotionally steady (even when you feel like you are going crazy. You will get through this. Both of my boys had their own version of this insanity-producing behavior and they both got through it.

[amy g.]

My dh kept telling me that Ds would be so much better in a year. He won't be 16 until April, but I am already seeing so much improvement.

 

He started taking community college classes, and that really boosted his confidence. His business teacher told him, "you are already doing what everyone else here hopes to do someday."

 

He started working 30 hours a week for Miss Good's corporation. I know from other threads that not everyone can find paid work for their teens, but the experience has been so good for Ds.

 

She pays him by the hour, but also sales commission. He is motivated to push himself, and can compare himself to the adults working around him, and see that he is really doing a good job. He has also saved $2,000 in his bank account so far, and that helps him feel like an adult.

 

I have so much more hope for him this year. That's good, because he may live to see adulthood.....if he is lucky.

[Cheryl in NM]

Thank you, thank you everyone!

 

The best thing you can do is respond with logic and be matter-of-fact.

Trust me, it will help keep you sane.

 

Re. #1: We all have to follow rules, even the stupid rules. Respect us or don't respect us, you still have to do what you're told. Privileges were consistently taken away. It was beyond exhausting as ds constantly tested us, but it was worth it~he's now our biggest ally when the younger ones challenge rules ;).

 

It is excruciatingly exhausting! It's so hard to keep my temper. I guess that's where I pray constantly?

 

#2: It sounds like he needs to have a dayplanner and be held accountable for his day. We held ds to a schedule and checked on him regularly. He hated it and often ignored it. :glare: But when his work wasn't done, it was there in black and white that he failed to do what he should. Consequences followed.

Blaming others for our problems is just not accepted here.

 

I type up a daily planner every week complete with page numbers, all work to be done as well as outside activities. I've thought of switching to a day planner and having HIM write from MY list.

 

What are those consequences? In our house it's delayed gratification: computer, phone, talking to girlfriend who's not really allowed to be a girlfriend yet but is for all practical purposes :001_huh:

 

#3: That does sound manipulative.

My ds never said that~he's not exactly lacking in the self-confidence department :rolleyes:~however, he also knows how we would have responded. Having a low I.Q. doesn't mean you don't have to do schoolwork, it just means you'll be working from a different book. So sit down and get it done.

 

I like this!

 

Be patient. Pray constantly.

They grow up.

Ds never breaks curfew and regularly calls to see if we need anything on his way home. It's hard work getting them to the other side of that boy/man stage, but so worth it once they're there.

 

Thank you! This gives me hope! If I can only stay consistent and keep my head above water a few more years...

[Cheryl in NM]

In addition to just plain waiting it out ...

 

• Don't emotionally engage. Be matter of fact about consequences. "Oh, so sorry. You must still do blah blah blah" and move on.

• Feed frequently. Make sure he has healthy snacks.

• Lots of physical exercise including hard labor. Those attitude hormones need lots of exercise to keep them in check. Moving wood piles, heavy boxes, demanding sport, push ups for misbehavior, etc. I have stopped the car and kicked out a mouthy teen to make them do push ups. Attitude usually improves.

• Regular sleep and eating schedules. They may seem more mature, but then they backslide. I found that providing more structure helped. I planned out the schoolwork by how long it should take and we would set timers.

 

 

Be consistent and emotionally steady (even when you feel like you are going crazy. You will get through this. Both of my boys had their own version of this insanity-producing behavior and they both got through it.

 

I'm so glad I'm not the only one. He has walked home many times! He usually only has to walk .5 mile, but I've made him walk a whole mile before!

 

He choses carbs to snack on, he's not a big protein eater so I been buying those Fiber One bars. I figured the fiber will eat up some of those carbs.

 

He takes martial arts 3 times a week. He also has a punching bag which gets hit everytime I punish him. He utilizes it to get his anger out quite well, but usually a little late. He's usually let his words get him trouble first.

 

His bedtime is 10:30 and he's to be up, showered and fed by 9am. He has trouble sleeping though so sometimes he's up for a few hours in the middle of the night or after going to bed.

 

Thank you so much!

[Cheryl in NM]

My dh kept telling me that Ds would be so much better in a year. He won't be 16 until April, but I am already seeing so much improvement.

 

He started taking community college classes, and that really boosted his confidence. His business teacher told him, "you are already doing what everyone else here hopes to do someday."

 

He started working 30 hours a week for Miss Good's corporation. I know from other threads that not everyone can find paid work for their teens, but the experience has been so good for Ds.

 

She pays him by the hour, but also sales commission. He is motivated to push himself, and can compare himself to the adults working around him, and see that he is really doing a good job. He has also saved $2,000 in his bank account so far, and that helps him feel like an adult.

 

I have so much more hope for him this year. That's good, because he may live to see adulthood.....if he is lucky.

 

THIS is what I'm hoping for. Ds wants to go to ps to be in a classroom setting. I've told him to hang on until he's 16 because then he can take community college classes. He responds so well to other's praise. Why don't I count? :crying:

 

He couldn't possibly handle a job and ps, especially since his commute would be a minimum of 30 minutes. If he waits until he's 16, then we'll let him take the GED, start college part time and work part time. In NM homeschoolers must get the GED to be eligible for the state lottery scholarship. We figure if he can pass the GED at 16 then he's completed his high school education academically speaking.

[Remudamom]

Remudamom - you said your sons had to help with the ranch. We have horses. I hear, why can't you feed tonight Mom, they're not even my horses! Did you hear that? How do you foster the "we're a family and this is what this family does"?

 

 

I'm not that politically correct. If I ask the boys to do something for me they do it because I'm the mom.

 

I'd probably tell your boys if they couldn't feed the horses I'd make sure they didn't eat either.

[Deb in NZ]

THIS is what I'm hoping for. Ds wants to go to ps to be in a classroom setting. I've told him to hang on until he's 16 because then he can take community college classes. He responds so well to other's praise. Why don't I count? :crying:

 

At that age my ds didn't really give much value to my praise, possibly because he knew that I loved him no matter what, so he didn't need to prove himself to me. The praise of adult men meant the world to him.

[Sophia]

"What are those consequences? In our house it's delayed gratification: computer, phone, talking to girlfriend who's not really allowed to be a girlfriend yet but is for all practical purposes"

 

We treat his school like his job, so the rules are work before pleasure.

 

Ds is an extrovert and always has a plan for socializing so it was a no brainer for us to say "That's not gonna happen." Sheer stubbornness kept him home many a weekend, but eventually he realized that was just dumb and he slowly started changing. Ds doesn't date, but if he had a gf when this nonsense was going on...*shrug* he would never have seen her...or straightened up quicker, lol.

[KidsHappen]

My son hasn't turned out the best in the world but he was always respectful of his mother even when he was very angry with me. I think that to a certain extent it was because I was always physical with him. I was physically affectionate, I did motherly grooming that I think probably established a bit of dominance and finally if he didn't listen I would grab him by the ear and make him do whatever. I don't know that you could institute that suddenly at age 15 but it seemed to work when instituted at a younger age. That's how my mom raised my brothers and most of them were always pretty respectful of her. I think at this point I would wait him out a bit and just be a little bit more stubborn than he is.

[Cheryl in NM]

At that age my ds didn't really give much value to my praise, possibly because he knew that I loved him no matter what, so he didn't need to prove himself to me. The praise of adult men meant the world to him.

 

That make sense. I bet Mom will be more important again later. Dh sure values his mom's opinion of him and his choices.

 

"What are those consequences? In our house it's delayed gratification: computer, phone, talking to girlfriend who's not really allowed to be a girlfriend yet but is for all practical purposes"

 

We treat his school like his job, so the rules are work before pleasure.

 

Ds is an extrovert and always has a plan for socializing so it was a no brainer for us to say "That's not gonna happen." Sheer stubbornness kept him home many a weekend, but eventually he realized that was just dumb and he slowly started changing. Ds doesn't date, but if he had a gf when this nonsense was going on...*shrug* he would never have seen her...or straightened up quicker, lol.

 

That's what we do. Where's the magic pill?!

 

My son hasn't turned out the best in the world but he was always respectful of his mother even when he was very angry with me. I think that to a certain extent it was because I was always physical with him. I was physically affectionate, I did motherly grooming that I think probably established a bit of dominance and finally if he didn't listen I would grab him by the ear and make him do whatever. I don't know that you could institute that suddenly at age 15 but it seemed to work when instituted at a younger age. That's how my mom raised my brothers and most of them were always pretty respectful of her. I think at this point I would wait him out a bit and just be a little bit more stubborn than he is.

 

I love this. I used to be very physically affection with Ds but when he was about 8 he wouldn't have any more of it. Now we hug when one of us leaves and goes to bed. It's sad to me. I like the "take him by the ear"! I wouldn't try that now though. I think time and consistency are my answer here.

 

I'm not that politically correct. If I ask the boys to do something for me they do it because I'm the mom.

 

I'd probably tell your boys if they couldn't feed the horses I'd make sure they didn't eat either.

 

I've done that. Oh well, at least he complies even if he stomps all way out to the feed shed. I'd just love for him to want to comply; to want to feed since it's raining and Mom's sick. Oh well, I guess I should get off the pity pot and be glad he's complying in that respect.

 

I really appreciate all the advice and perspective! I don't feel as bad about myself now. I think this is just our season of life right now and if we are consistent we will get through it. Thank you so much ladies!

[Cheryl in NM]

I wonder if his resentment towards you is possibly being caused by those schedules you lay out? I wonder (maybe just for part of it) if HE controlled the schedule a bit more if he would be more amenable? Maybe lay out what has to be done by the week and let him figure out the daily stuff? Yeah, he'll dig himself into a hole now and then, but that's when those consequences come in. Another thing to consider, is physical labor that accomplishes something. I know my ds is a lot more pleasant to be around if the work MATTERS. Yeah, he's tired from sports, but he does better if the fences are fixed and the wood chopped. I think part of what frustrates young men is that their "work" isn't necessary. They need to believe that they are needed.

 

I've done that with the schedule and he didn't get his schoolwork done. He got to the point where he could not have possibly gotten caught up over the weekend to be ready for the next week. He ended up a month behind while I continued to try to let him figure out how to reach his weekly deadline. he knows how to break his work up he just decides to do less than he planned and before he knows it he's a week behind.

 

He has a horse he's supposed to be training. For the most part we still have beautiful weather here he just doesn't feel like working with her. Besides feeding the horses we don't really have alot of physical work and not anything regular. I'll have to think about that harder. He asked our neighbor for work and was told he'd be paid $6.50 an hour for pulling weeds; he hasn't felt like doing that either. His martial arts and punching bag are the only physical activity he's doing right now. I'm glad he's doing those, but I agree with the work aspect of things.

[LidiyaDawn]

Ds wants to go to ps to be in a classroom setting.

 

This is prolly half the problem right there….I also have a teenager who wants to be in public school ~ we'd planned to put her in this fall after we moved, but that was rescheduled (moving) to next summer. She's still hs'ing, but she's ok with it because she knows she can go to ps next year. Anyway - we had a lot of unhappiness here because of that….it's not so bad now that there are plans (albeit delayed) and promises.

[Osmosis Mom]

Cheryl,

 

Do you have my ds 16?????????? Down to excessive amounts of time in the bathroom! Hilarious, if not tragically so.

 

He was not bossy -at all- as a kid, but he certainly wants to feel in control now. We'll order/command him to do something (go out with us/get in the car, do something he hadn't planned etc.) and he'll refuse to obey except on his own conditions. It sounds silly writing it down, but as a family and having other kids, then you tell them do this or that and you move on, and he won't work that way. Drives dh up the wall, to put in mildly.

 

I think the solution is to parent differently. Ask more for opinions and try to listen better.

 

Schoolwork gets done, but like you, if I leave the house, well, then school can wait, right? He has gotten better and it is also helping that suddenly then he is beginning to see the end of the high school and college as his goal (plus much more freedom and options for independence, in a good way). So some inner motivation (or a distant carrot, however you will it! But not coming from me directly).

 

Ds also had huge issues with low self-esteem and feeling stupid last year. Some self-mutilation was included, I am sorry to say, but after I found out, then I spent even more time showing him how smart he is and how others perceive him and I am pretty sure we are over the bump. But it was a bump that would keep me awake at night and make me feel so sad for him although to him I kicked his a** and gave him so extra loving (my way pf parenting...).

 

Boys are very different than girls and in general then introverts (either gender) are way harder to parent as teens because they suddenly have all those issues and hidden emotions that they never shared with others or received recognition for. He is my third teen and my second introvert. My oldest was an extrovert and by age 15 her teenagehood was over and she became stable, sweet and lovely again. Guess we can't all be that lucky!!

 

Thank you anyways for posting and sharing.