teaching evolution and creation theories

[Kathy G]

Hi

 

I don't want this thread to provoke any sort of religious controversy. My daughter age 10 is asking to be taught about the origin of the universe. My family is christian, however I am not looking for anything with a religious or anti-religious slant. What I am seeking is just a resource that talks about the different theories. We will then discuss them and how they fit in with our beliefs and how others may have different beliefs. I have searched for several weeks and really am coming up empty. I may just need to get books on each individual theory and go from there, but I figured I would ask first.

 

Thanks:001_smile:

 

Kathy

[theYoungerMrsWarde]

My fil is a (mostly) retired Free Methodist pastor who recently did a series of sermons on this topic that are avaiable on our church website. Go to the bottom of the page and there is a green button and an orange button under "Read today's devotions" link. The green one is the sermons. Look for the ones by Vince Warde. The first one is from 7/10.

 

These are not your average sermons. My fil did a LOT of research, and the links include books, youtube videos, websites, and other things that I think you would find very useful, even if you don't listen to the sermons (which are more like a classroom lecture, imho.)

Edited November 7, 2011 by theYoungerMrsWarde

[boscopup]

It seems like you'd get better info if you got books on each individual theory. I think it'd be hard to write a book that presents all sides equally without throwing in some sort of bias. Of course, there are lots of different views, from evolution/big-bang to Intelligent Design to old earth creationist to young earth creationist, and everything inbetween! Maybe pick the major beliefs and get books specifically on those, written by people who believe them. It should be a more accurate representation of the beliefs and the reasons for those beliefs.

[Iucounu]

IMHO it would do a child a disservice to muddy the waters by introducing creationism under the guise of Intelligent Design. If I were to teach anything about creationism (other than the unmasking of Intelligent Design as creationism via the Kitzmiller decision et al., which is really a cultural topic rather than scientific) I would simply present it as the religious cosmology that it actually is. To present it as scientific is simply misleading, and may well introduce confusion that would hold a child back in later serious scientific study.

 

It's okay for religions to have religious cosmological viewpoints; there's nothing wrong with religion. It doesn't have to pretend to be science. I also don't think there needs to be substantial conflict that matters between science and religion for people with Old Earth views.

[lizbusby]

This isn't a teaching resource per say, but I liked what this mom had to say about teaching her kids about both evolution and creation: http://liberatededucation.blogspot.com/2011/08/life-universe-and-everything.html (Now I can't remember if I found this link in these forums. Sorry I'm a newbie who doesn't recognize names.)

 

I basically agree with her. Teach what is known about each side (fairly), state what you believe and why, and allow your children some freedom of thought. Neither religion or science is so weak that they can't stand to be in a mind that has knowledge of the other side. (Does that make sense?)

 

Anyway, props for trying to be balanced.

[laundrycrisis]

I would turn to well-written secular books for secular explanations and well-written religious books for religious views. I would not look to a religious author for a reasonable explanation of the big bang theory, or vice versa. I also like to study the origins and evolution in a way that leaves room for wonder.

 

This book is really beautiful and explains well:

 

Big Bang! The Tongue-Tickling Tale of a Speck That Became Spectacular

 

I also like the books by Jennifer Morgan:

 

Born With a Bang: The Universe Tells Our Cosmic Story : Book 1 (Sharing Nature With Children Book)

 

They are sort of new-agey but not so extreme in any way that people in the middle (not at either extreme end) would feel uncomfortable using them. They are also really beautiful.

 

IMO, enjoy studying this and don't get caught up or bogged down in controversy. It's fun to look at what we have evidence for, what different peoples have believed across time, and ponder big questions without needing to know a definite, absolute answer.

Edited November 8, 2011 by laundrycrisis

[theYoungerMrsWarde]

Resources on Creation from an Intelligent Design/Old Universe Perspective

(Not exhaustive, but enough to get a good start)

 

Films (all are available on Netflix):

 

Expelled: No Intelligence Allowed - 2008 - 97 minutes

Hosted by Ben Stein, this controversial documentary examines how pro-intelligent design scholars and scientists are often chastised, fired or denied tenured positions by those who believe in Darwin's theory of evolution. Nathan Frankowski's film explores how scientists who believe in God are oppressed and how the acceptance of Darwinism might have played a role in the formation of the Nazi regime.

 

The Privileged Planet - 2004 - 60 minutes

Embracing the concept of intelligent design and refuting the theory of evolution, this intriguing video posits that Earth was created not by a series of random events but by a "creative designer" who knew

exactly what he was doing. Several proponents of intelligent design, including philosophers and scientists, share their views about this controversial theory and provide evidence that supports their

premise. Actor John Rhys-Davies narrates.

 

The Case for a Creator - 2006 - 60 minutes

Award-winning journalist and longtime atheist Lee Strobel embarks on an intense search for scientific evidence that God exists. Strobel, a former writer for the Chicago Tribune, questions his lack of faith when his wife converts to Christianity. Based on the New York Times best-seller, The Case for a Creator asks the question: Can science prove what religious leaders and the faithful have always taken for granted?

 

Websites:

Discovery Institute of Science and Culture

Great site on all intelligent design issues

http://www.discovery.org/csc/

 

Reasons to Believe

Evidence from a wide variety scientific

disciplines.

http://www.reasons.org/

 

Evidence for God

http://www.godandscience.org/

Magis Center of Reason and Faith

Excellent work on both the Big Bang creation model and modern physics as evidence for an intelligent creator. Catholic site.

http://www.magisreasonfaith.org/

http://www.youtube.com/magisreasonfaith#p/u

 

Books:

A Matter of Days: Resolving a Creation

Controversy

By Dr. Hugh Ross ISBN-13: 978-1576833759

The Intellectuals Speak Out About God

Roy Abraham Varghese (Editor) - Forward by

Pres. Ronald Reagan ISBN-13: 978-

0895268273

[theYoungerMrsWarde]

(Power point slides from first lecture/sermon mentioned in my original post.)

 

What were the assumptions that led to the scientific acceptance of

atheistic evolution?

The Universe may be eternal – extending infinitely into the past and infinitely into the future.

Life, especially simple forms of life, can and does arise from non-living material.

Life is probably common in the universe, because there are many planets suitable for life.

The individual cells that make up all living things are simple, consisting of little more that protoplasm.

Mutations are a viable source of new characteristics within the genetics of organisms.

Throughout the history of life on earth, environmental changes have been gradual, giving organisms time to adapt.

There is no way that modern humans could possibly be descended from one human male and female.

 

Assumption #1: The Universe is eternal – extending infinitely into the past and infinitely into the future.

This is an absolute requirement for atheism. If the universe has not always been here, if it had a beginning then there is a God.

This is nothing new. The one thing that all great thinkers for thousands of years have agreed upon is this.

In the middle ages, Jewish, Christian and Muslim philosophers developed it into the Kalam cosmological argument.

 

The Kalam cosmological argument.

1) Everything that has a beginning of its existence has a cause of its existence.

2) The universe has a beginning of its existence.

Therefore:

3) The universe has a cause of its existence.

4) If the universe has a cause of its existence then that cause is God.

Therefore:

5) God exists – and He must be infinitely wise and powerful

 

The Kalam cosmological argument – the objections:

1) The Universe is all there is. It is eternal – it never had

a beginning and will never end

2) Who created God? Why does he not need a cause?

These two objections held up until the 20th century

 

The Kalam cosmological argument – the objections fall

The first objection to fall was the need for God to have a cause.

Albert Einstein's theory of general relativity proved that time was a part of the physical universe

Therefore the creator of the physical universe must exist outside of time.

He did not need a cause.

 

When a reporter asked him what had caused the Big Bang, he reportedly

answered, “God you idiot!†THIS IS KEY – THE “BIG BANG†BEGAN AS,

AND STILL IS A CREATIONIST POSITION.

1929 - Edwin Hubble discovers the “red shift†in distant Galaxies –indicating that they are moving away from earth. This supports the “Big Bang†model and wins Einstein’s support.

 

The Big Bang proofs build

1948 - “Cosmic microwave background radiation†is predicted by Ralph Alpher, Robert Herman, and George Gamow, as a result of the Big Bang.

1965 - Penzias and Wilson discover the predicted microwave background radiation, providing another line of evidence supporting the Big Bang. They share the 1978 Nobel prize in physics for their discovery.

1989 – Atheist John Maddox, writing in scientific journal Nature, predicts that the Big Bang model will not survive the initial observations from the Hubble Space Telescope.

 

1990 – The Institute for Creation Research (ICR) predicts that the Big Bang model will die in the next 10 years

1990 to Present - Evidence supporting the Big Bang, much of it from the Hubble Telescope, continues to build. There are now 16 lines of evidence supporting the Big Bang model.

In recent years, all true scientific doubt has been erased.

The bottom line is that the science of astronomy points clearly to the existence of God.

The atheistic “scientific†response? They continue to rule out the possibility of God and to offer up speculation without evidence as fact.

 

More proof from physics

The laws of physics are “fine tuned†to allow our universe and life to exist

Over 30 parameters must be exactly right – to an amount equivalent to one atom in the entire known universe!

The smallest change and neither life nor the universe could exist

This could not happen by mere chance

 

More proof from physics

So what is the atheistic response?

There must be millions of universes and we just “got luckyâ€

There is absolutely no evidence to support this idea. It is total speculation and the reasoning is circular

Plus it only pushes the problem back one step – because even if it is true, what was the cause of millions of universes?

 

1980's to Present: Large numbers of Astronomers began to investigate religion. (This is for you, Spycar/Bill)

One of them, Dr. Robert Jastrow, put it this way: “We have gone as far as we can go, looked as far back as we can look, we have climbed to the top of the mountain and as we pull ourselves up we are greeted by a band of theologians who have been there for centuries.â€

They looked for a faith that would be compatible with what the science was telling them. They did not have to look far.

When they opened the Bible they found a God who existed outside of time. They found a God who was capable of being the cause of the “Big Bangâ€.

 

There was a beginning and God created both the heavens (cosmos) and the earth:

(Gen 1:1 NIV) In the beginning God created the heavens and the

earth.

The God of the Bible exists outside of time – an absolute requirement for the creator of the universe:

(Exo 3:14 NIV) God said to Moses, "I AM WHO I AM. This is what you are to say to the Israelites: 'I AM has sent me to you.'"

(John 8:58 NIV) "I tell you the truth," Jesus answered, "before Abraham was born, I am!

 

(Psa 90:4 NIV) For a thousand years in your sight are like a day that has just gone by, or like a watch in the night.

(2 Pet 3:8 NIV) But do not forget this one thing, dear friends: With the Lord a day is like a thousand years, and a thousand years are like a day.

God has fixed the precisely balanced physical laws of the Universe:

(Jer 33:25 NIV) This is what the LORD says: 'If I have not established my covenant with day and night and the fixed laws of heaven and earth....

 

The heavens were not created in a steady state - they are being "stretched out". This is consistent with the Big Bang model.

(Isa 42:5a NIV) This is what God the LORD says-- he who created the heavens and stretched them out..........

(Job 9:8a NIV) He alone stretches out the heavens.............

(Psa 104:2 NIV) He wraps himself in light as with a garment; he stretches out the heavens like a tent

(Isa 44:24 NASB) Thus says the LORD, your Redeemer, and the one who formed you from the womb, "I, the LORD, am the maker of all things, Stretching out the heavens by Myself, And spreading out the earth all alone,

 

(Zec 12:1a NIV) This is the word of the LORD concerning Israel.

The LORD, who stretches out the heavens.............

The Hebrew verb in the above verses indicates an action began in the past and continuing to the present.

All of these verses were written thousands of years before modern science – yet they dovetail perfectly with it.

The only reason to write these words, to write words thousands of years ahead of their time, is that they were inspired by God himself - the creator of the universe.

 

The Bottom Line:

The field of science that looks back to the beginning is not biology or geology – it is astronomy.

When we look at the discoveries of modern astronomy, we find positive evidence for the existence of God.

When we look at the discoveries of modern astronomy we also find confirmation for our faith.

 

____________________________________________________

 

Yes, a pastor is going to be biased. But he still did a really good job, and since the OP said they wanted to teach both sides, I think anyone dismissing the possibility of creation/intelligent design is dismissing the beliefs of the OP.

.

[jar7709]

Come on now, she didn't flame anyone and was respectful in the content of the post.

 

The facts is there are not multiple "theories" on the origins of species. There are multiple creation stories that offer religious/cosmological explanations for the proliferation of species, but these are not scientific theories.

 

Intelligent Design is not a theory either, it was a "hypothesis" at best, and wholly lacking in evidence and is invalid.

 

That is why one will never find books that talk about multiple theories, as there is only one theory that has the massive evidentiary support and the proven predictive powers necessary to be considered a "theory."

 

The other explanations operate in a different realm, but they are not science, and not theories.

 

Bill

 

I agree. But more to OP's question for book recs, I find the Eyewitness book title on evolution to be a great introduction, as even-handed a secular title you're going to find, that does touch on religious creation stories as well as how ideas about evolution have changed.

Edited November 8, 2011 by jar7709
edited to add link

[Bang!Zoom!]

We've been enjoying this for several months actually around here. It's on Netflix on streaming if you like also.

 

http://www.quantumactivist.com/

[quark]

I haven't read every response so hope this is not repetitive.

http://www.mythicjourneys.org/bigmyth/

We enjoyed this creation myths site (from various cultures' viewpoints) a few years ago.

[quark]

We've been enjoying this for several months actually around here. It's on Netflix on streaming if you like also.

 

http://www.quantumactivist.com/

 

This looks like a very interesting resource. Thank you for sharing it!

[jar7709]

I have more time now, so addition to the Eyewitness Evolution book I previously recommended, the following are also good secular books on evolution and origin of the universe (which are two different topics if you are talking about secular science books--please remember that secular does not mean "anti-religion")

 

Evolution: How We and All Living Things Came to Be

The Story of Astronomy and Space

Eyewitness Universe (when I asked him just now, my science-lovin' DS said this one is his favorite on the topic)

 

There are very good tv shows available on Netflix, including the History Channel's "The Universe" and some episodes of Nova.

[Roadrunner]

A good educational book on evolution - The greatest show on earth.

http://www.amazon.com/Greatest-Show-Earth-Evidence-Evolution/dp/1416594787

It's more for high school-er, so if you have little ones, it won't be as useful.

[Spy Car]

A good educational book on evolution - The greatest show on earth.

http://www.amazon.com/Greatest-Show-Earth-Evidence-Evolution/dp/1416594787

It's more for high school-er, so if you have little ones, it won't be as useful.

 

Richard Dawkins does have a new book out for children called "Magic of Reality." I have not read it.

 

Bill

[Roadrunner]

Richard Dawkins does have a new book out for children called "Magic of Reality." I have not read it.

 

Bill

 

Just checked it out (in wishlist already).

 

Bill's suggestion looks much better for kids.

[Kathy G]

Thank you for the responses. I have the resources I need and I think this conversation is only going to provoke negative comments. I was only looking for resources, and thank you to those who gave ideas, it was very helpful. I do not see anything good coming of this thread continuing and so I propose it stops.

[jenbrdsly]

Here's a really good book for kids that includes Charles Darwin. It's called Historical Heroes Wickedly Funny Profiles of Six Time Honoured Megastars. The link is from my blog and includes a picture of the page that says basically yes, Evolution is scientifically proven, but that doesn't mean you can't still believe in God.

 

 

--Edited. Ooops! Sorry, I posted this after I read that the thread should die.

 

NoahandEmma'sMommy: I'm Methodist and I believe in Evolution, but I'm sending you big hugs. :grouphug:

Edited November 9, 2011 by jenbrdsly

[acurtis75]

If you want to present new earth theology as a creation theory you can look at http://www.answersingenesis.org there are many books and free online resources. I mention this because they will differ greatly from intelligent design resources. I am taking a similar approach to what you described and we are looking at many of the recommended resources in this thread also.