Halcyon Posted November 5, 2011 Share Posted November 5, 2011 I just began reading the latest edition of WTM and I see she's changed her recommendation from Kingfisher to DK for Logic History. My guess is that's because the "older" Kingfisher which I guess is out of print is too hard to find, and maybe she didn't care for the later one? Anyway, generally DK books are not a hit around here-too much visual clutter. Amazon does not have a preview for the DK book, and we do own the Kingfisher book, which I like very much. Anything wrong with just using the white Kingfisher for outlining, or is the DK book that much better? Thank you. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Capt_Uhura Posted November 5, 2011 Share Posted November 5, 2011 If you read the WTM on outlining, DC is not outlining from any of the encyclopedic texts. Instead DC is outlining from a book that she has chosen to learn more about something read in the encyclopedia. Someone wrote a very nice post detailing this. Let me see if I can find it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheAutumnOak Posted November 5, 2011 Share Posted November 5, 2011 The white Kingfisher is better for outlining...The recommendation was changed because that one went out of print...I had to buy one used... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
abbeyej Posted November 6, 2011 Share Posted November 6, 2011 Here's the DK one with a preview: http://www.amazon.com/History-Definitive-Visual-Civilization-Present/dp/075663119X I think Kingfisher is fine for early logic stage. The red and white editions really aren't all that different, though I do *slightly* prefer the white copy. It's just not very challenging for middle school students, so by 7th or 8th grade many of them are ready for something more. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Capt_Uhura Posted November 6, 2011 Share Posted November 6, 2011 Actually, that's not the DK one. There is another one which I think is a lower reading level. It's called DK History of the World. http://www.amazon.com/History-World-Third-Revised-Updated/dp/0756631440/ref=sr_1_1?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1320543973&sr=1-1 You can search inside of it at Amazon. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
redsquirrel Posted November 6, 2011 Share Posted November 6, 2011 http://www.welltrainedmind.com/forums/showthread.php?t=320696 If you see my post in this thread, it is number 6, you can see that the encyclopedia is not used for outlining. I even give a page citation from TWTM 3rd ed. where you can look it up. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Halcyon Posted November 6, 2011 Author Share Posted November 6, 2011 Actually, that's not the DK one. There is another one which I think is a lower reading level. It's called DK History of the World. http://www.amazon.com/History-World-Third-Revised-Updated/dp/0756631440/ref=sr_1_1?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1320543973&sr=1-1 You can search inside of it at Amazon. Yes, this is the one that doesn't appeal. We're not big DK fans here. And the Living one looks great but is too advanced for my rising 5th grader. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Halcyon Posted November 6, 2011 Author Share Posted November 6, 2011 http://www.welltrainedmind.com/forums/showthread.php?t=320696 If you see my post in this thread, it is number 6, you can see that the encyclopedia is not used for outlining. I even give a page citation from TWTM 3rd ed. where you can look it up. Off to look. I must have misread it! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
abbeyej Posted November 6, 2011 Share Posted November 6, 2011 You're right. There are two DK history books recommended for logic stage (p.273 in the newest ed, I think). The one you linked is an "easier" resource, and it really is just about the same level as Kingfisher. I don't see why one couldn't use Kingfisher instead, if one already has a copy. I was thinking of the other (which SWB lists as for "advanced" students) because that's the one we've used after moving on from Kingfisher. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Halcyon Posted November 6, 2011 Author Share Posted November 6, 2011 (edited) Okay, so for all you who have BTDT, how do you incorporate K12's Human Odyssey, assuming you want to? Edited November 6, 2011 by Halcyon Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
redsquirrel Posted November 6, 2011 Share Posted November 6, 2011 honestly, I follow the TOC from SOTW. I have a younger son and I am using that with him. For steps 1-3 I use whatever encyclopedia source I want that matches the TOC of SOTW. I sometimes looked in the AG. For steps 4-5 I open up my K12 book to the index and just look it up and assign the reading. It was that easy for 5th grade. For step 6 I picked a subchapter and had him make an outline. I also have the Oxford books of the Ancient World at our library. If the K12 book let me down, I could usually find something in one of those very easily. If it was a total bust with those, then I would just pick another book that addressed the reading in some way, or find an original source online or even just skip it that week. It wasn't a big deal. I swear it is harder to describe it than to actually do it. When DS1 was in 4th grade I was all kinds of panic. Now that i have done it, I feel very relaxed and comfortable with the process. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Halcyon Posted November 6, 2011 Author Share Posted November 6, 2011 honestly, I follow the TOC from SOTW. I have a younger son and I am using that with him. For steps 1-3 I use whatever encyclopedia source I want that matches the TOC of SOTW. I sometimes looked in the AG. For steps 4-5 I open up my K12 book to the index and just look it up and assign the reading. It was that easy for 5th grade. For step 6 I picked a subchapter and had him make an outline. I also have the Oxford books of the Ancient World at our library. If the K12 book let me down, I could usually find something in one of those very easily. If it was a total bust with those, then I would just pick another book that addressed the reading in some way, or find an original source online or even just skip it that week. It wasn't a big deal. I swear it is harder to describe it than to actually do it. When DS1 was in 4th grade I was all kinds of panic. Now that i have done it, I feel very relaxed and comfortable with the process. I'm not too worried; we love history here, and I know it's going to be fun. Question: why didn't you just use the Human Odyssey TOC, step through that, then do your outline and narration? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
redsquirrel Posted November 6, 2011 Share Posted November 6, 2011 Question: why didn't you just use the Human Odyssey TOC, step through that, then do your outline and narration? Mostly, it was because my boys like to do the same thing at the same time. I have one in grammar stage and one in logic and it was just easier to organize myself around what is happening in SOTW. My elder son enjoys doing the activities with his younger brother, and occasionally, there are extra reading suggestions that are fine for a logic stage kid. And this is going to sound a bit silly, but the first Human Odyssey book is really thin on Egypt. The summer before 5th grade my son had been saying how much he wanted to study Egypt again etc. Well, Human Odyssey has several chapters on Sumer but not much on Egypt. It sort of stands out. I knew I was going to have to beef up the Egypt to start the year off 'right' and that lead me to the Oxford books. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Capt_Uhura Posted November 6, 2011 Share Posted November 6, 2011 :iagree: K12HO is light on Egypt. I'm using Kingfisher for the details for timeline and list of facts and K12HO for reading along w/ Oxford Ancient times books. I think it's working out well. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Halcyon Posted November 6, 2011 Author Share Posted November 6, 2011 Mostly, it was because my boys like to do the same thing at the same time. I have one in grammar stage and one in logic and it was just easier to organize myself around what is happening in SOTW. My elder son enjoys doing the activities with his younger brother, and occasionally, there are extra reading suggestions that are fine for a logic stage kid. And this is going to sound a bit silly, but the first Human Odyssey book is really thin on Egypt. The summer before 5th grade my son had been saying how much he wanted to study Egypt again etc. Well, Human Odyssey has several chapters on Sumer but not much on Egypt. It sort of stands out. I knew I was going to have to beef up the Egypt to start the year off 'right' and that lead me to the Oxford books. That's smart! I am going to be starting my rising 2nd grader on Ancients next year using SOTW (I don't feel it's sufficient any longer for him to be "tagging along" with older) and we'll be starting with Ancients with him, so I love this idea--thanks :) Do you find it's fairly easy to "line them up" together? I will be reading aloud from SOTW to both of them, and then younger would head over to Human Odyssey to read his relevant portion, I think. i am excited! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Halcyon Posted November 6, 2011 Author Share Posted November 6, 2011 :iagree: K12HO is light on Egypt. I'm using Kingfisher for the details for timeline and list of facts and K12HO for reading along w/ Oxford Ancient times books. I think it's working out well. Thanks, we have the white Kingfisher, which I really like, and we would likely do the same. Have you used the Usborne Ancient World? Looks nice--saw it in the library yesterday. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
redsquirrel Posted November 6, 2011 Share Posted November 6, 2011 :) Do you find it's fairly easy to "line them up" together? I will be reading aloud from SOTW to both of them, and then younger would head over to Human Odyssey to read his relevant portion, I think. i am excited! No. I don't. That is part of why HO isn't working for us. HO does history by region. If you look at the TOC in the "try before you buy" sample you will see that it is organized by geographical region. SOTW moves in a chronological fashion. I did week 8 in SOTW and lesson 57 (I think) in HO this week. Now, it is NOT impossible and other people have done it. I printed off a schedule that lines them up from some blog. But, it is not convenient. I have lost the flow of HO entirely. Often she has readings listed for subjects that are coming up in a couple weeks etc. The way I am doing it now, I will miss those. So, that is why I said that what I am doing is not HO any longer. It has become a nice addition and not the organizing factor in my history. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Halcyon Posted November 6, 2011 Author Share Posted November 6, 2011 (edited) Ahhh!. Darn, that's too bad. I wonder if DK's History: the definitive visual guide would be a better choice then, or maybe National Geographic Almanac of World History Edited November 6, 2011 by Halcyon Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
missmoe Posted November 6, 2011 Share Posted November 6, 2011 Ahhh!. Darn, that's too bad. I wonder if DK's Living History would be a better choice then, or maybe National Geographic Almanac of World History We use the National Geographic Almanac of World History. I think it is a great resource--especially for outlining. But it maybe difficult for a 5th or 6th grader to read on their own. I've found it perfect for 7th and 8th grade. Of course, that may differ with each student. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Halcyon Posted November 6, 2011 Author Share Posted November 6, 2011 We use the National Geographic Almanac of World History. I think it is a great resource--especially for outlining. But it maybe difficult for a 5th or 6th grader to read on their own. I've found it perfect for 7th and 8th grade. Of course, that may differ with each student. What would you recommend for 5th, assuming I want the book to fall reasonably in line with SOTW Book 1? Does such a thing exist? Durn, I thought I'd gotten History planning squared away! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Halcyon Posted November 6, 2011 Author Share Posted November 6, 2011 No. I don't. That is part of why HO isn't working for us. HO does history by region. If you look at the TOC in the "try before you buy" sample you will see that it is organized by geographical region. SOTW moves in a chronological fashion. I did week 8 in SOTW and lesson 57 (I think) in HO this week. Now, it is NOT impossible and other people have done it. I printed off a schedule that lines them up from some blog. But, it is not convenient. I have lost the flow of HO entirely. Often she has readings listed for subjects that are coming up in a couple weeks etc. The way I am doing it now, I will miss those. So, that is why I said that what I am doing is not HO any longer. It has become a nice addition and not the organizing factor in my history. Wait, are you talking about Human Odyssey, or History Odyssey?? :confused: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Capt_Uhura Posted November 6, 2011 Share Posted November 6, 2011 I do believe she's talking about History Odyssey. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Halcyon Posted November 7, 2011 Author Share Posted November 7, 2011 I do believe she's talking about History Odyssey. Ack okay. I meant Human Odyssey. Darn acronyms. So, to re-ask, can HUMAN Odyssey be used with SOTW? Meaning, do their TOCs "sorta" line up? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Capt_Uhura Posted November 7, 2011 Share Posted November 7, 2011 There are several schedules floating around that have aligned SOTW and K12HO. Which time period are you in? Ancients? Middle Ages? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
missmoe Posted November 7, 2011 Share Posted November 7, 2011 What would you recommend for 5th, assuming I want the book to fall reasonably in line with SOTW Book 1? Does such a thing exist? Durn, I thought I'd gotten History planning squared away! We used the White Kingfisher History book for 5th and 6th grade. Along with the Usborne book of Ancient History. I've posted most of our Ancient History resources on my blog, if you are interested in seeing them. My kids were ages 10 and 11 when we worked through Ancient History. http://missmoe-thesearethedaysofmylife.blogspot.com/p/ancient-rome.html Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Halcyon Posted November 7, 2011 Author Share Posted November 7, 2011 There are several schedules floating around that have aligned SOTW and K12HO. Which time period are you in? Ancients? Middle Ages? We'll be in Ancients again next year. I will google the schedules, or if anyone has a link, I'd be very appreciative Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Halcyon Posted November 7, 2011 Author Share Posted November 7, 2011 We used the White Kingfisher History book for 5th and 6th grade. Along with the Usborne book of Ancient History. I've posted most of our Ancient History resources on my blog, if you are interested in seeing them. My kids were ages 10 and 11 when we worked through Ancient History. http://missmoe-thesearethedaysofmylife.blogspot.com/p/ancient-rome.html Off to look! TY!!! ETA: this is great :) Did you incorporate K12's Human Odyssey? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
missmoe Posted November 7, 2011 Share Posted November 7, 2011 Did you incorporate K12's Human Odyssey? I did for a short period of time, but didn't really care for it. Instead I've settled on the Suzanne S. Art books for now. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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