Can you help with dd's writing?

[amo_mea_filiis.]

I'm not really looking for corrections on this particular assignment. I feel that her overall writing is fairly poor, but don't know where to start (we're already working on spelling).

 

Assignment in a nutshell (I posted about this a while ago, and she finally did it).

 

How did the invention of the printing press affect the spread of ideas and knowledge in the 15th century? Compare pp invention and its effects with the computer (Internet, email) and its effects on the ways we communicate today.

 

Here is her draft that she feels is acceptable and wanted to mail to the teacher. Other than her spelling (I think it's weird that her mistakes are not consistent), please pick this apart and help me figure out where to begin. All errors are exact, her's is written so nothing is a typo. It took me quite a while to type this as is! LOL.

 

Johannes Gutenberg invented the printing press. The printig press is a way to print books and paper from movable type. Before the printing press was invented books were writen out by hand and were really exspencive. Since they were exspensive and almost rare only very welthy people owned books.

When the printiang press was invented schools were gived many books for students to learn from, bible could be created and many more people owned books.

The internet was invented when the ARPA began a network called the ARPANET. Also the DARPA inivated a research program to investagate techniques and technologies for the inter linking packet net works of all kinds. Very many years, presant time, people use the internet for many things like school, google, bloging stuff, vidio games, and many more things.

The printing press and internet both help alot with communication for example: the internet has thousands of bloging sites like food alergy bourds, my space, facebook, and others that people keep intouch with other people on and do other stuff. As for the printing press, it helped to create books, help schools, and alout of other stuff.

Both the printing press were and still are amazingly help full in many ways and help with communication so much.

Edited November 5, 2011 by amo_mea_filiis

[amo_mea_filiis.]

The formatting disappeared!

 

She did indent, and the above should be 5 paragraphs.

[amo_mea_filiis.]

Anyone? :bigear:

[Guest submarines]

I'd help her focus on the expressions of her ideas first. She didn't really develop the Internet invention, which is interesting for a child who is probably personally familiar with the Internet, and only read about the invention of the printing press. She recalled and summarised what she read easily, but had difficulties with brainstorming and analysing her first hand experiences.

 

Then I'd focus on not repeating the same ideas--each sentence should focus on something new.

[kht2006]

First I'd have her read it to you aloud at a conversational pace and volume. Then I'd have her listen while you read it aloud. She should 'hear' some of the verb errors, etc.

 

Then I'd help her develop a good thesis and conclusion sentence.

 

Then, look at the content of the body of the essay to see if it is easy to read and makes sense.

[amo_mea_filiis.]

Thank you! I will finish with her tomorrow.

 

She had a lot of trouble with the internet part. She doesn't regularly use email or post office mail, so I'm not sure she grasps that connection. She's also never done internet research. I found a much better article on the internet for her to read. It doesn't focus on the technical stuff so it should be better.

 

Does this assignment give you (general) any idea where I should start with her in the overall writing process? The technical things like grammar and spelling I can handle, but I have no idea how to fix the flow problems.

[2squared]

How did the invention of the printing press affect the spread of ideas and knowledge in the 15th century? Compare pp invention and its effects with the computer (Internet, email) and its effects on the ways we communicate today.

 

Well, I can tell you that my 9yo would have looked at me with a blank face and run crying out of the room if this were her assignment. This assignment requires far more writing, research, and analysis skills than she possesses. I would have had to heavily work with her to get output. So, starting with my point of reference, I am quite impressed that your dd put anything on paper.

 

Did you help your dd with an outline and help her sift through the information used for the assignment? Did you help her gather her ideas and organize them before putting to pen to paper? I guess we would have tackled this assignment similar to a WWE/WWS assignment with me heavily involved in her process.

[mandymom]

Well, I can tell you that my 9yo would have looked at me with a blank face and run crying out of the room if this were her assignment. This assignment requires far more writing, research, and analysis skills than she possesses. I would have had to heavily work with her to get output. So, starting with my point of reference, I am quite impressed that your dd put anything on paper.

 

 

:iagree: The topic maybe seems suited to 2 different essays at this age.

[amo_mea_filiis.]

She was never taught to outline or write with a purpose (other than creative writing).

 

I'd have to answer no to any of your questions. All she really knows how to do is read something and summarize it.

 

The teacher has a lot of writing assignments, but there's minimal instruction to the writing.

[amo_mea_filiis.]

I'm writing her intro sentence, and listing some ideas for her. I'll have to give her some easier research topics. For now, I just want to get this darn paper (and later we have a timeline) done!

[Guest submarines]

Well, I can tell you that my 9yo would have looked at me with a blank face and run crying out of the room if this were her assignment. This assignment requires far more writing, research, and analysis skills than she possesses. I would have had to heavily work with her to get output. So, starting with my point of reference, I am quite impressed that your dd put anything on paper.

 

Did you help your dd with an outline and help her sift through the information used for the assignment? Did you help her gather her ideas and organize them before putting to pen to paper? I guess we would have tackled this assignment similar to a WWE/WWS assignment with me heavily involved in her process.

 

Oh, I'm glad to hear this. My 9yo would have the same reaction, but since we are just slowly leaning towards Classical Education, I thought that maybe we were hopelessly behind. (Well, we are, but still I'm glad she is not the only 9 yo at the same situation).

 

I also think (and this might not be very WTM?) but when someone is just learning to express herself in writing and needs to improve, one might do better with the topics that actually engage that child. I can't imagine most 9-10 year olds being excited about the printing press! :leaving:

[amo_mea_filiis.]

Oh, I'm glad to hear this. My 9yo would have the same reaction, but since we are just slowly leaning towards Classical Education, I thought that maybe we were hopelessly behind. (Well, we are, but still I'm glad she is not the only 9 yo at the same situation).

 

I also think (and this might not be very WTM?) but when someone is just learning to express herself in writing and needs to improve, one might do better with the topics that actually engage that child. I can't imagine most 9-10 year olds being excited about the printing press! :leaving:

 

Agreed! Dd is in a public cyber, so that's where the paper comes from. I'm not yet ready to pull her, but will be doing so by next year.

[kht2006]

The flow might be helped by giving her a list of transition words to work into her paper.

Early in the .... then in the mid...

Not only does.... but also

First,

Then,

Later,

After..., then

Also,

In Addition,

Throughout

therefore

however

Finally

 

I think I found a great list online once on an ESL website...

[hsbaby]

Wow. That seems like a pretty complex essay for a ten year old (I realize it wasn't your idea:001_smile:) I can't imagine ds being ready for that next year.

 

I would begin by teaching her outlining skills. It seems as though her writing is a little unfocused....if that makes sense. This would also help eliminate some of the redundancy.

 

Like a PP said, I give her a lot of credit for even trying to write this. Especially with limited instruction.....there would have been a lot of tears here if I handed my ds that assignment:)

[kwg]

My 9yo would run crying too and not even attempt it.

 

 

Do other 10 yo olds in ps do this type of assignment? I would think so. She wouldn't assign something totally off the wall right?

 

We are so behind I wonder if we will ever catch up :glare:

 

I was thinking an outline might help first.

[amo_mea_filiis.]

How many paragraphs should be my goal (not for this paper, but a topic that she likes)?

 

I'll teach her with topic A, but have her write out topic B.

[amo_mea_filiis.]

My 9yo would run crying too and not even attempt it.

 

 

Do other 10 yo olds in ps do this type of assignment? I would think so. She wouldn't assign something totally off the wall right?

 

We are so behind I wonder if we will ever catch up :glare:

 

I was thinking an outline might help first.

 

The teacher doesn't even write the assignments or lessons! I'm not sure who writes them, but they're done by the cyber school. The teacher is supposed to be rewriting dd's assignments, but all she's done is send a link to a venn diagram.

[twoforjoy]

I think that looks pretty darn good for a 10yo, especially given the topic and complexity of the assignment.

 

And, for those who think they are "hopelessly behind" because their kids couldn't do this: I'm a writing instructor, and I think this is an entirely inappropriate assignment for a child that age. I'd expect an upperclass high school student to be ready to handle it, not an upper-elementary kid. I never received an assignment anything like this when I was 10, and I refuse to believe that a hundred years ago, kids were asked to write essays like this at 10. It's a developmentally-inappropriate assignment, and if your kid would balk at being asked to write it, that's because they're normal 10yos.

 

I have college students who would have trouble with this. That's a problem. By the time a student hits college, this is the kind of assignment they should be able to handle with ease. But at 10? No way.

[In the Rain]

I agree about the two part topic being complex for a child of her age. My young 10yo probably wouldn't come up with a smooth way for handling it either.

 

One thing I noticed, that I would work on with my dd, was the actual structure of her sentences. It sounds like she had good ideas in her head, but the writing doesn't match up. My dd always reads her writing to me first. She reads with great expression, and flow. Next, I read the same writing according to how it is actually written and punctuated. Sometimes the effect is quite different. Her next job is to make what is written match with how she meant for it to sound. It is something we work through together, a sentence at a time.

[mytwomonkeys]

i think your child did well also. really well! after you clean up the few spelling errors and wording in a few places, it will be great! my daughter is 10 and in 4th grade. her current assignment is a compare and contrast essay. she is comparing moths and butterflies, lol. it is nowhere near as complex as your child's assignment. it is a basic 4 paragraph essay and she doesn't even need to use citations. if i gave her the assignment you shared, it would require a lot of hand-holding on my part. i think your child did very well:)

[amo_mea_filiis.]

Thank you everyone!

 

Here's the final product, obviously guided by me.

 

The printing press and later, the Internet, drastically changed how people communicate, interact, learn, and read. The printing press made it possible for thousands of books to be copied for much less money than hand copying. The Internet made it possible for computers to connect to a global network with unlimited information available.

The Printing Press was invented in the 1400’s by Johann Gutenberg. A wealthy lawyer, Johann Fust, loaned money to Gutenberg so he could print the first Bible. Gutenberg spent a lot of time, and most of Fust’s money experimenting with different metals to make the molds for the letters. He eventually found the right combination of metals that would hold up to repeated use. He also created a special oil-based ink to use for his press. Fust and his nephew eventually completed the first printed Bible, in 1455, using Gutenberg’s press.

By the 1500’s, there were printing presses in about 300 European cities. The printing press could print thousands of copies of a book in the time it took one copyist to copy one book. Books were now much less expensive and a lot more people were learning to read and using books. Overall education increased which led to new discoveries and inventions.

The Internet was developed by scientists to be a computer system that could withstand bombs. Early use of the Internet was left to the experts. The Internet connected universities and was a way for scientists to exchange complicated data. The Internet eventually became easier and more common to use.

Like the printing press, the Internet increased the sharing of ideas, education, and communication. Now there are billions of web pages and websites on every possible topic. People can use topic specific Internet forums to get answers to questions from other people. Email can send a message in seconds to another person, and no stamps are needed. Many books are available to read on websites, and many of them are free.

In conclusion, the printing press and the Internet changed everything about how the world communicates and shares ideas.

 

ETA- Again the formatting messed up! Oh, well.

[amo_mea_filiis.]

I will now refer to TWTM and start her on whatever writing program I do with ds. She will join us in narrations, too.

[Guest submarines]

I'm not sure how your cyber school arrangement works, but will submitting this revised essay lead the teachers to unrealistic expectations? This essay, for the most part, reads as though an adult wrote it.

 

It might be a good exercise to let her rewrite it in her own words, now that it is done.

 

On the other hand, if it were me, and I wasn't planning on using the cyber school in the future, I'd focus on my DD's actual writing skills, and wouldn't worry submitting an essay that she received lots of help with.

 

The essay is greately improved, and I'm sure your DD learned a lot in the process. Maybe she will now see that writing about her favorite book character, or comparing two types of candy is can actually be fun. ;)

[amo_mea_filiis.]

I emailed the dd written alone copy just so the teacher knows where she is. She knows dd needs hand holding for almost all writing. I think because I'm using the cyber as a transitional and learning tool, I may not be too worried.

 

I had her read our final draft and asked her to retell me what we wrote and she was unable to do it. She pulled direct phrases out of it, and what wasn't directly from it, didn't make much sense.

 

This paper is so long over due that I just want to be done with it!

 

Next up is a 15 event timeline that she has to plot (easy) and write a sentence for each event. :( another not fun assignment.

[2squared]

Next up is a 15 event timeline that she has to plot (easy) and write a sentence for each event. :( another not fun assignment.

 

Know what I would do for this? If the plotting is easy, I would do that with her. Then, I would have her dictate the sentences to me, and I would write them down for her. My guess is that she is really struggling with writing and probably is feeling pretty worthless about her abilities at this point. She probably has good ideas that she is struggling to get down on paper. If you write the sentences that she comes up with, you can gently guide her and help her succeed with this writing assignment. You can build her confidence by disconnecting the need to generate content with the need to physically write. Please remember that my dd would have had a complete melt-down with the previous assignment, so I know my dd would be beyond fragile as we approached the next assignment.

 

How many paragraphs should be my goal (not for this paper, but a topic that she likes)?

 

I'll teach her with topic A, but have her write out topic B.

 

If I wanted to give my daughter some success, build her confidence, and help her develop skills, I would truly follow the WWE model. I would start with a good sentence and then work up to a good paragraph. I love how WWE 3 has my dd generate an oral paragraph narration. I write it down, and then I dictate it back to my dd.

 

I also wouldn't tie research skills to writing yet. If you are just getting started, I would stick with narrating. If your dd is anything like my rather fragile 9yo, she will need a lot of guidance and success to build her up before she can handle added complexity.

 

I am slowly learning my failures in teaching writing. I wish I had understood that teaching writing requires me to walk with my dd, carrying her at times, instead of treating it as a pass/fail subject. :sad: My poor, first-born guinea pig.

[amo_mea_filiis.]

Where should I start dd with WWE? Is there a placement test?