MSNative Posted November 3, 2011 Share Posted November 3, 2011 Did y'all see this? http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?f=/c/a/2011/11/02/BA5G1LQ06S.DTL I have tried to read different accounts. The guy was wrong to gun the car and hit the protestors. On the other hand, I have been in a mob situation and been scared for my life. I don't know what I would have done if a mob surrounded my car, pounded on it and kept moving in front of my car when I tried to get around them. Bad situation all the way around. Unfortunately, I think this could lead to even worse violence there. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BigMamaBird Posted November 3, 2011 Share Posted November 3, 2011 One of my biggest fears is to be involved in an accident with a pedestrian while driving. Honestly, I'd rather be hit my a car myself than live knowing I'd run over a human being. That said, if my kids were in the car with me and a mob of people were attacking our vehicle, you can bet I'd be out of there. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spy Car Posted November 3, 2011 Share Posted November 3, 2011 (edited) Strange, but when I was in college I was on the very same section of Broadway in Oakland, riding on my moped, when I was suddenly surrounded by a thundering herd of Hells Angeles. Hundreds of them. It must have been the entire Oakland chapter. Did I feel like a dork being on a moped? You bet! My strategy, which is the same one I'd use if in a car that was surrounded by a mob, was to give them an enthusiastic "thumbs-up" and hope for the best. It worked, but I was sweating bullets. Bill Edited November 3, 2011 by Spy Car Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MSNative Posted November 3, 2011 Author Share Posted November 3, 2011 One of my biggest fears is to be involved in an accident with a pedestrian while driving. Honestly, I'd rather be hit my a car myself than live knowing I'd run over a human being. That said, if my kids were in the car with me and a mob of people were attacking our vehicle, you can bet I'd be out of there. I agree. I can't imagine hitting someone deliberately. Actually just reading about this freaked me out. I don't know what should have been done. Call the cops? Roll slowly to get out of the way? Bad, bad, bad all the way around. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MSNative Posted November 3, 2011 Author Share Posted November 3, 2011 Strange, but when I was in college I was on the very same section of Broadway in Oakland, riding on my moped, when I was suddenly surrounded by a tundrering herd of Hells Angeles. Hundreds of them. It must have been the entire Oakland chapter. Did I feel like a dork being on a moped? You bet! My strategy, which is the same one I'd use if in a car that was surrounded by a mob, was to give them an enthusiastic "thumbs-up" and hope for the best. It worked, but I was sweating bullets. Bill :lol::lol::lol: Thanks, Bill. I needed that laugh. Excellent and fast thinking! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Little Nyssa Posted November 3, 2011 Share Posted November 3, 2011 I know Oakland well... My advice for everyone is to stay out of downtown while the protests are going on, especially at night. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lisbeth Posted November 3, 2011 Share Posted November 3, 2011 If they were pounding on his car in a threatening way, don't blame him for gunning it...that part seems unclear. Mobs are freaky, scary things. They could easily get worked up and pull him out, killing or maiming him. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jennifer3141 Posted November 3, 2011 Share Posted November 3, 2011 Strange, but when I was in college I was on the very same section of Broadway in Oakland, riding on my moped, when I was suddenly surrounded by a thundering herd of Hells Angeles. Hundreds of them. It must have been the entire Oakland chapter. Did I feel like a dork being on a moped? You bet! My strategy, which is the same one I'd use if in a car that was surrounded by a mob, was to give them an enthusiastic "thumbs-up" and hope for the best. It worked, but I was sweating bullets. Bill Did you have a backpack with the hardcover, unabridged version of Moby Dick poking out? Maybe they just felt sorry for you!!! (I do whenever you post about loving that book. :lol::lol:). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HejKatt Posted November 3, 2011 Share Posted November 3, 2011 San Jose Mercury News has a live blog on Occupy Oakland:http://www.mercurynews.com/occupy-oakland/ci_19247016?source=rss *shivers*. I have no idea what I would do in the above situation, but I agree that SpyCar's strategy is good thinking. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Georgiana Daniels Posted November 3, 2011 Share Posted November 3, 2011 That is frightening! I couldn't live, either, if I ran over a human being. Even the thought freaks me out, and I don't know how I'd survive that kind of situation. Pondering further... Did the protesters who were hitting his car expect to just be able to do so without consequence? Did they think the driver should just let them do whatever they wanted to his car, and possibly, eventually himself? If the people in front of the car were trapped by the mob and couldn't get out of the car's way, then that is simply awful! On the flip side, if I stood in front of a moving car, I'd expect to get hit. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spy Car Posted November 3, 2011 Share Posted November 3, 2011 Did you have a backpack with the hardcover, unabridged version of Moby Dick poking out? Maybe they just felt sorry for you!!! (I do whenever you post about loving that book. :lol::lol:). I did not have a copy of Moby Dick with me, but I was on my way to making a pilgrimage to "Jack London Square" and was just moments from my destination. It did not help matters that I had just recently read "Hells Angeles" by Hunter S Thompson (which does not present a nice picture) nor that I had bad memories of having been in a peaceful protest against the Vietnam War as a child that was violently attacked by Hells Angeles on choppers who were swinging chains and badly beating demonstrators. No fond feelings for these fellows. But boy did I attempt to fake enthusiasm when I was surrounded by a hundred of 'em. There are moments when discretion is the better part of valor :D Bill Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LisaKinVA Posted November 3, 2011 Share Posted November 3, 2011 Excerpt: 7:40 p.m. Protesters set up driver check points at port The intersection at Seventh and Maritime streets is almost like a rebel checkpoint. Every car that comes through is stopped while protesters question the driver, then debate with the larger group about whether they should be allowed to pass. "He's a worker," a protester at a car will shout to the group. "He's trying to get home." Then, they await the larger answer: "Let him go through," the crowd replies, and the driver is allowed on his or her way. That is just frightening... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
In The Great White North Posted November 3, 2011 Share Posted November 3, 2011 What were the police doing? Why were the protestors allowed to establish martial law in Oakland? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DarlaS Posted November 3, 2011 Share Posted November 3, 2011 Strange, but when I was in college I was on the very same section of Broadway in Oakland, riding on my moped, when I was suddenly surrounded by a thundering herd of Hells Angeles. Hundreds of them. It must have been the entire Oakland chapter. Did I feel like a dork being on a moped? You bet! My strategy, which is the same one I'd use if in a car that was surrounded by a mob, was to give them an enthusiastic "thumbs-up" and hope for the best. It worked, but I was sweating bullets. Bill They probably did that on purpose. College kid on a moped? Way too much fun to resist. :D Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aggie Posted November 3, 2011 Share Posted November 3, 2011 Monique Agnew got in front of a truck with a camper shell that was forced its way in. When it charged, she hit it with a sign she was carrying. She said she has been there for several hours. "These people tried to kill us. I can't believe they are being that aggressive over a paycheck, over your own people fighting for you." :lol::lol::lol: Those stupid paychecks!:lol::lol: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mom2scouts Posted November 3, 2011 Share Posted November 3, 2011 Excerpt: 7:40 p.m. Protesters set up driver check points at port The intersection at Seventh and Maritime streets is almost like a rebel checkpoint. Every car that comes through is stopped while protesters question the driver, then debate with the larger group about whether they should be allowed to pass. "He's a worker," a protester at a car will shout to the group. "He's trying to get home." Then, they await the larger answer: "Let him go through," the crowd replies, and the driver is allowed on his or her way. QUOTE] So what happens if the crowd doesn't call "Let him go through" like they did with the news van? If I feared for my life, I would do what I needed to do to get out of there. Aggie, I also laughed about the paycheck comment too. Maybe they need that paycheck so they can pay back their student loans! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spy Car Posted November 3, 2011 Share Posted November 3, 2011 They probably did that on purpose. College kid on a moped? Way too much fun to resist. :D Oh yes, they were clearly enjoying themselves :D I just did my darndest not to show fear. It was a first-class acting job but I tried to seem happy to see them. But I was clearly the dork on a moped, in the wrong place, at the wrong time. Bill Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LittleIzumi Posted November 3, 2011 Share Posted November 3, 2011 What were the police doing? Why were the protestors allowed to establish martial law in Oakland? According to my friend who lives nearby, the protest was peaceful until the police went out there and formed a line just in case (last week or something), and the presence of the police caused shouting and anger from the protestors, and the police fired tear gas, and it escalated from there. I haven't heard anything about the cars yet from her. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
In2why Posted November 3, 2011 Share Posted November 3, 2011 I can't speak to the protest event because there are going to be many sides to the story, but I wouldn't feel a bit bad to hit someone with my car if I felt threatened in anyway, shape, or form. Not the same thing, but sometimes I see the papparazzi surrounding some public figure and I wonder why they don't just put their car in gear and let it drive without touching the gas. If the people do not get out of the way then they are committing suicide using my car! I would feel the same way about protestors. I am not going to stop just because a bunch of people that I don't know want me to, and I am not going to allow them to decide whether I can go forward or not when I want to. And if they beat on my car or threaten me, then they are taking their life in their hands, their choice! I write this as someone who is neutral about the occupation movement. I can't figure out what they want or how this will change anything. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
In2why Posted November 3, 2011 Share Posted November 3, 2011 I also want to add that I think this could get even uglier. We have quite a few over the road truckers in our family, and all of them have handguns for protection for the craziness that can occur on the highways. I can easily see this escalating at the ports and someone getting really hurt. These people driving trucks are middle class and work hard for their families. When they aren't able to deliver or pick up they aren't getting paid. That isn't going to go over well already and add in any violence from the crowd and it might get even crazier. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jean in Newcastle Posted November 3, 2011 Share Posted November 3, 2011 According to my friend who lives nearby, the protest was peaceful until the police went out there and formed a line just in case (last week or something), and the presence of the police caused shouting and anger from the protestors, and the police fired tear gas, and it escalated from there. I haven't heard anything about the cars yet from her. The police did not make these protestors choices for them. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Happy Posted November 3, 2011 Share Posted November 3, 2011 I have been in a car surrounded by a mob. I wasn't driving, but our driver was doing a great job of simply trying to ease us out of the situation. (Just after New Year's celebrations) People would NOT get out of the way and let us through. He accidentally bumped a person and the whole thing went up. The mob beat the windows out of our car. It was one of the scariest situation I've ever been in. That was 30 years ago. To this day, I hate for anyone to 'surround' my car or, heaven forbid, beat on it...even in a playful way. shivers. This smacks of terrorism, imho. Why are these protestors getting to disrupt the peace...stopping and interogating drivers? No thank you. :auto: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jennifer3141 Posted November 3, 2011 Share Posted November 3, 2011 The police did not make these protestors choices for them. True enough. Monsanto, Bank of "America," Enron etc. etc. did quite a bit of the decision making. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jean in Newcastle Posted November 3, 2011 Share Posted November 3, 2011 True enough. Monsanto, Bank of "America," Enron etc. etc. did quite a bit of the decision making. No, they made their own choices but they did not make the protestors choices for them either. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Little Nyssa Posted November 3, 2011 Share Posted November 3, 2011 We lived through several incidents when we lived there. There are a lot of troublemakers who will come to Oakland if there's any chance of a fight and some destruction. One time we left town on the day a certain verdict came down. I'm afraid that Oakland may start to set the tone for all the OWS sites. The police forcecin Oakland is too small and demoralized by many bad decisions & bad relations with the community. Mayor, a year ago, had asked State Police to patrol the city. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
twoforjoy Posted November 3, 2011 Share Posted November 3, 2011 We lived through several incidents when we lived there. There are a lot of troublemakers who will come to Oakland if there's any chance of a fight and some destruction. One time we left town on the day a certain verdict came down. I'm afraid that Oakland may start to set the tone for all the OWS sites. Why? OWS in Detroit has been small, but entirely peaceful. The same is true in most other cities. The protest organizers are committed to non-violent protest. They can't control the actions of everybody involved and they aren't closed protests (i.e., anybody can join, so you may get people who aren't committed to non-violence joining in), but as far as I can tell, the organizers have done an admirable job of both promoting non-violence and maintaining a non-violent atmosphere. Given how many people are involved, and the length of time they've been protesting, and the level of police action that has been taken against the protesters, I think it's pretty remarkable. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Photo Ninja Posted November 3, 2011 Share Posted November 3, 2011 What were the police doing? Why were the protestors allowed to establish martial law in Oakland? The police were trying to maintain order without provoking the protesters, however, it appears that some of the protesters consider any law enforcement presence to be a threat to what they want to do. The protesters have been allowed to behave this way because the city of Oakland, including the mayor, has allowed it. The city encouraged employees to take the day off yesterday and go protest, while canceling all leave and vacations for the police, setting up a situation where the city is not supporting rule of law or its police department. What else do you expect from a city that allowed protestors to violate city law without consequence, then told them they had to vacate the area because of crime, and waste and rats had created an unsanitary environment, sent the police in to force them to disperse, then allowed the protesters back the next day to continue doing the very same activities that the city sent police in to stop? Protestors complained that they were mistreated (read that as they refused to follow the law or directions from law enforcement and didn't like the consequences), complained that the mayor didn't support them like they expected her to, so the mayor apologized for the decision to force them to stop camping, and allowed them back the next day. She didn't wouldn't stand up to the OWS. So the protests are continuing, basically with the approval and perhaps encouragement of the city. I doubt this behavior in Oakland will change unless the city changes its mind and stops supporting it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MSNative Posted November 3, 2011 Author Share Posted November 3, 2011 The police were trying to maintain order without provoking the protesters, however, it appears that some of the protesters consider any law enforcement presence to be a threat to what they want to do. The protesters have been allowed to behave this way because the city of Oakland, including the mayor, has allowed it. The city encouraged employees to take the day off yesterday and go protest, while canceling all leave and vacations for the police, setting up a situation where the city is not supporting rule of law or its police department. What else do you expect from a city that allowed protestors to violate city law without consequence, then told them they had to vacate the area because of crime, and waste and rats had created an unsanitary environment, sent the police in to force them to disperse, then allowed the protesters back the next day to continue doing the very same activities that the city sent police in to stop? Protestors complained that they were mistreated (read that as they refused to follow the law or directions from law enforcement and didn't like the consequences), complained that the mayor didn't support them like they expected her to, so the mayor apologized for the decision to force them to stop camping, and allowed them back the next day. She didn't wouldn't stand up to the OWS. So the protests are continuing, basically with the approval and perhaps encouragement of the city. I doubt this behavior in Oakland will change unless the city changes its mind and stops supporting it. It's all fun and games til they mess with Lois the Pie Queen - the best restaurant in Oakland and the world for breakfast! Sorry. Anytime Oakland is mentioned I start salivating over a Reggie Jackson special. But, back to the point, I wonder how long residents will tolerate these protests. My friend in NYC is so over it. She works near the protests and is sick of being yelled at and having trash thrown at her. (She takes a very roundabout way to get to work but says that protesters are all over the area.) I completely support freedom of speech. However, I do wonder how long a protest ought to be able to last. If you put a time limit on it, do you limit free speech? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wapiti Posted November 3, 2011 Share Posted November 3, 2011 I doubt this behavior in Oakland will change unless the city changes its mind and stops supporting it. I don't know what will happen, but this afternoon, there is some sort of closed session of the city council taking place about dealing with the riots. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LisaKinVA Posted November 4, 2011 Share Posted November 4, 2011 There was an article I read the other day, about a cafe that had to let 30 employees go because of the protests. The protesters (and police barricades) killed their business... everyone (city hall, etc.) tells the owner how sorry they are, but the barricades are still up, and the protesters are still there... wonder how many more people have lost their jobs because of the protests? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jean in Newcastle Posted November 4, 2011 Share Posted November 4, 2011 There was an article I read the other day, about a cafe that had to let 30 employees go because of the protests. The protesters (and police barricades) killed their business... everyone (city hall, etc.) tells the owner how sorry they are, but the barricades are still up, and the protesters are still there... wonder how many more people have lost their jobs because of the protests? Kind of ironic, isn't it. Makes you want to see them to sue the protestors. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChristineW Posted November 4, 2011 Share Posted November 4, 2011 It is a nightmare. Poor Oakland can't seem to win. I largely support the Occupy Oakland message, but someone has to control the professional anarchists in their midst. It is not ok to smash the windows of local businesses, nor is it ok to light trash on fire near a residential neighborhood days after the city commemorated the 20th anniversary of the Oakland firestorm which killed 25 people. The troublemakers had to be restrained by Occupy Oakland marchers from smashing the local Whole Foods. In the latter, the peaceful protesters were able to control the anarchists, but they can't expect the PD to ignore arson and vandalism. It's raining tonight--hopefully that will keep the crazies away. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moxie Posted November 4, 2011 Share Posted November 4, 2011 It is a nightmare. Poor Oakland can't seem to win. I largely support the Occupy Oakland message, but someone has to control the professional anarchists in their midst. It is not ok to smash the windows of local businesses, nor is it ok to light trash on fire near a residential neighborhood days after the city commemorated the 20th anniversary of the Oakland firestorm which killed 25 people. The troublemakers had to be restrained by Occupy Oakland marchers from smashing the local Whole Foods. In the latter, the peaceful protesters were able to control the anarchists, but they can't expect the PD to ignore arson and vandalism. It's raining tonight--hopefully that will keep the crazies away. What message do you support? I promise I'm not being snarky. I just haven't seen any message besides "mad". Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MSNative Posted November 4, 2011 Author Share Posted November 4, 2011 What message do you support? I promise I'm not being snarky. I just haven't seen any message besides "mad". Bumping 'cause I'm curious, too. I've seen a lot of crazies interviewed 'cause that sells news, but I haven't seen one organized message come out. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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