Cursive...do we really need it?

[Guest]

otherwise titled, Cursive...do we really need another thread about it? :D

 

 

OK, convince me that my kids need to learn this. I am driving myself batty figuring this one out. Why do we need to teach it?

 

My dh thinks American cursive is just wrong-looking as he is from Scotland where he learned a form of Italics not found here. I think many of the letters look too different from the printed versions. He wants me to teach what he learned or nothing at all.

 

My boys all laugh at American cursive and it is too hard to 'see' the individual letters. I struggled through teaching my older two cursive and neither uses it and cannot read it. I finally gave up. They sign their names and that is it. AGGG!!!!! What is the point?

 

I am wafting back and forth between BJU or HWT because that is what I have fontware for and I cannot write the way NAC does nor does StartWrite run correctly on my MAC. My natural cursive is closest to Italics without the exaggerated spacing between letters. What should I do? Make my mind up for me, please!

 

So convince me I need to do it before I pull my hair out.

[Parker Martin]

We're teaching italics with Getty-Dubay.

[Bluegoat]

William Morris said "Have nothing in your house that you do not know to be useful, or believe to be beautiful."

 

I think this can also apply to ourselves. Well, done, some may feel that cursive writing is not useful. But having beautiful handwriting is itself a worthwhile thing. If you can't bear to do it for "writing", why not call it art and teach real calligraphy?

 

[Trish]

Signing a check? Taking notes? Not every note-taking situation is laptop-friendly. Many are not, in fact.

[elise1mds]

Honestly, I didn't plan to teach it; DS was the one who asked to learn it. We're using HWT.

[Embassy]

William Morris said "Have nothing in your house that you do not know to be useful, or believe to be beautiful."

 

I think this can also apply to ourselves. Well, done, some may feel that cursive writing is not useful. But having beautiful handwriting is itself a worthwhile thing. If you can't bear to do it for "writing", why not call it art and teach real calligraphy?

:iagree:

 

I'm using the Champion method as a way to deal with poor habits and teach cursive at the same time. I'm pleased with progress so far.

[NoPlaceLikeHome]

I think there is value to cursive seeing as I grew up with it and still prefer it due to its speed:D

 

I also suspect cursive helps with eye-hand coordination and with focusing. IMHO I suspect it is good for the brain. As for italics, it sounds interesting but I wonder if it is as quick as cursive? Is it a connected form of writing as in cursive? I think that lifting the pen off the paper for every letter slows one down. As for the difference in letters I see it as a non issue since many of the leeter are not much different. Plus there are many forms of cursive that may be more appealing to you.

Edited November 3, 2011 by priscilla

[lamolina]

I learned whatever type of cursive was taught in the 80's in public school. I never use it. I sign my name in cursive and that is it. I took all my notes in college and grad school in print and it worked just fine and was plenty fast! Cursive at this point would take me much longer.

I still think I will teach my kids cursive, but I will probably not expect them to use it if they prefer to print.

 

Does anyone have preferences as to which cursive they think looks prettiest? I know that is probably not the most important criteria, but I am mainly thinking of which program for my 8 year old daughter who I am sure would love a pretty looking handwriting!

[wapiti]

IMHO I suspect it is good for the brain.

 

This is more or less what a prominent developmental optometrist recently said to me. We didn't have a chance to go into details, but she emphasized teaching cursive.

[Ellie]

Of course.

 

It is how English has been written for hundreds of years, and how people in other English-speaking countries still write. Why wouldn't we do the same?

 

To me, not teaching cursive is like the opposite of a well-trained mind. It is like dumbing down our children's education.

 

In years past--and not that far past, mind you--someone who could not write in cursive was considered poorly educated...and he was. I would certainly not want my children to be uneducated.

 

The public schools don't teach cursive. These would be the same public schools that have been producing poorly educated children for upwards of 40 years. Why would they be our model?

[justamouse]

I think there is value to cursive seeing as I grew up with it and still prefer it due to its speed:D

 

I also suspect cursive helps with eye-hand coordination and with focusing. IMHO I suspect it is good for the brain. As for italics, it sounds interesting but I wonder if it is as quick as cursive? Is it a connected form of writing as in cursive? I think that lifting the pen off the paper for every letter slows one down. As for the difference in letters I see it as a non issue since many of the leeter are not much different. Plus there are many forms of cursive that may be more appealing to you.

 

This is more or less what a prominent developmental optometrist recently said to me. We didn't have a chance to go into details, but she emphasized teaching cursive.

 

Of course.

 

It is how English has been written for hundreds of years, and how people in other English-speaking countries still write. Why wouldn't we do the same?

 

To me, not teaching cursive is like the opposite of a well-trained mind. It is like dumbing down our children's education.

 

In years past--and not that far past, mind you--someone who could not write in cursive was considered poorly educated...and he was. I would certainly not want my children to be uneducated.

 

The public schools don't teach cursive. These would be the same public schools that have been producing poorly educated children for upwards of 40 years. Why would they be our model?

:iagree::iagree::iagree::iagree:

[arliemaria]

I think Spencerian is the prettiest, but I also think that it may only be be taught properly with nibs and ink. If this is the case I think I will probably teach more Palmer style cursive as this is what I was taught. Later on, if the child wants for an art elective we can delve into more pen and ink flourishings and Spencerian.

[Guest]

Of course.

 

It is how English has been written for hundreds of years, and how people in other English-speaking countries still write. Why wouldn't we do the same?

 

Of course, ya'll realize the form used for hundreds of years is NOT American with our strange b, f, r, s, and z, among other letters, but Italics/Calligraphy?

 

I think my biggest cursive concern is my boys have discovered on their own how to write their names and just about any word in cursive but it is the more Italic style meaning no letter forms change, there are no spaces between the link ups like in Getty-Dubay, all letters connect, no slanting, and no loops at all. (I am sorry; this is so hard to explain without being able to see it firsthand.) I have great concern over making them switch from a form they have developed naturally to one that is completely different. Is there a benefit in doing so?

Edited November 3, 2011 by Guest

[Slone07]

Of course.

 

It is how English has been written for hundreds of years, and how people in other English-speaking countries still write. Why wouldn't we do the same?

 

To me, not teaching cursive is like the opposite of a well-trained mind. It is like dumbing down our children's education.

 

In years past--and not that far past, mind you--someone who could not write in cursive was considered poorly educated...and he was. I would certainly not want my children to be uneducated.

 

The public schools don't teach cursive. These would be the same public schools that have been producing poorly educated children for upwards of 40 years. Why would they be our model?

Very concise. I totally agree.

 

And FWIW, my 8 year old boys are tickled pink over Zaner-Bloser cursive and their workbooks. In fact, I just purchased them flex nib pens with their choice of ink as they're antsy to move on into more advanced writing/calligraphy. They tell me that they can write like adults now. LOL

 

(Never in my life did I think my boys would be into this...but they are, and they're dragging my husband with them LOL)

[LittleIzumi]

The Sponge asked to start cursive, and she is much better at the cursive than at printing. She picked it up in a couple of weeks. We're using HWoT cursive since we used their printing.

[huntchaos]

In our co-op last year, I pulled out the Dec of Independence to analyze and about half of the kids in this group could not read it. The ones that could we're taught some form of cursive/italics.

[dieuog]

William Morris said "Have nothing in your house that you do not know to be useful, or believe to be beautiful."

Nice.

[Melis]

Good Morning :)

 

SO many great thoughts here!

 

I taught my oldest cursive and plan to teach my youngest cursive as well. Once they are able to write cursive legibly and read it with ease, they may choose if they use printing or cursive for their assignments. I do ask that they sign their papers in cursive. It was important to me that they knew HOW. Without trying, they wouldn't know if they liked it. Also, I think it's important that they are able to read it. My oldest wrote beautifully in cursive, but chose to continue printing when he was done. He does enjoy signing his name in cursive though. He says it "looks more official" :) My youngest is just starting to print with ease so I think we'll do cursive next year.

 

I don't believe there is a right or wrong answer to this. Good luck with your decision :)

[ChrissySC]

I made some comments here.

 

 

I would read Script and Scribble if I were you.

 

And yes, teach cursive. The benefits are worth the time.

[Staceyshoe]

Of course.

 

It is how English has been written for hundreds of years, and how people in other English-speaking countries still write. Why wouldn't we do the same?

 

I totally agree with this. We plan to do cursive for sure. I've been hearing about pub schools taking field trips to DC, and the kids can't read the founding documents of our country (written in absolutely gorgeous script, IMHO--it's almost artwork). One day I would like to take a trip there. It would be rather anti-climactic if my kids can't even read those documents.

[ClassicalTwins]

Very concise. I totally agree.

 

And FWIW, my 8 year old boys are tickled pink over Zaner-Bloser cursive and their workbooks. In fact, I just purchased them flex nib pens with their choice of ink as they're antsy to move on into more advanced writing/calligraphy. They tell me that they can write like adults now. LOL

 

(Never in my life did I think my boys would be into this...but they are, and they're dragging my husband with them LOL)

 

Yup this is how my 8 yr old boys reacted. They saw me sign my name one day and asked to learn how I did that. They love it and ask to do it. Total shock here about that one.

[JenneinCA]

Need it, no.

 

If you need the time to teach other subjects that are more important, then teach them first. When I prioritize what subjects NEED to get done, cursive is not on the top of the list or even anywhere close. Math needs to get done. English needs to get done. Cursive does not.

 

(Flame suit on.)

[ladydusk]

Leigh Bortins (from Classical Conversations) just published A Defense of Cursive.

[zelli21]

I understand the argument; it is something I've been debating about too. Part of me says, it is not needed since besides signing my name, I never use it, I print or type (heck neither my husband or I could remember how to make a cursive Q & that was just a couple of weeks ago). But the other part says it is needed as you need to know how to read it and sign your name. Granted, we live in the digital age and some day our signature may be a fingerprint but until then and should one day technology fail us, I want to ensure my child can sign his name with something other than an X.

 

With all of that being said, I have decided to teach my child italics, move to cursive italics, and then do a short study on "traditional" cursive (mainly for reading purposes). I decided on cursive italics because I think it is how many people write now, half printing and half cursive. After reviewing samples, GD seem to lean the most towards that mix, IMO.

[NoPlaceLikeHome]

Need it, no.

 

If you need the time to teach other subjects that are more important, then teach them first. When I prioritize what subjects NEED to get done, cursive is not on the top of the list or even anywhere close. Math needs to get done. English needs to get done. Cursive does not.

 

(Flame suit on.)

 

I understand what you are saying but cursive only takes about 15 minutes a day or so. It really is not much time.

[Mbelle]

I went to school in the 70's and learned cursive first. I still prefer cursive. I find print causes my hand muslces to get all tired and it takes longer. My cursive developed over time to a mature handwriting. I remember playing around with my writing style in 7th grade.

My dh grew up in Australia and he learned basically the same handwriting I did with only one quirk which I'm not sure is him or the way he was taught. He insist that the lower case m has four humps and not 3 the way I learned. We both want the kids to learn it for practicle reasons and they enjoy it very much. It takes 10-15 min tops and we do it 4 days/week. I write everything in cursive, so they have had to learn to read from very early on. We have used A Reason for Handwriting and Handwriting without Tears. We feel like it is needed. It's like memorizing your spouses phone number instead of using speed dial from the get go, or always using a calculator instead of memorizing basic math facts, or using spell check instead of learning to spell. We don't really need any of those things anymore, it can all be done by computer.

[justLisa]

I cannot stand the look of that loopy cursive. I LOVE the Getty Dubbay courses. Both my kids and I are using them.

[Slone07]

I understand what you are saying but cursive only takes about 15 minutes a day or so. It really is not much time.

I agree. When we're in a pinch, it's easy to simply limit the boys to a page or two (about 15 minutes). And a day skipped here and there is no biggie, either. I totally agree with prioritizing, but cursive is such an easy, quick thing to incorporate (if it's on your list of priorities).

[lilredmom]

I believe it's necessary and beneficial. My daughter clarified it for me after we found out that public school doesn't really work to teach cursive any longer. She told us that she couldn't read cursive, so we had to print everything for her. That solidified it for me. To read it, she has to understand/know it, therefore, we will teach it.

 

Beth

[shanezomom]

I love, love, love to print. I cannot write in cursive except to sign my name. I taught our son cursive with HWT, which is a pretty funky looking. I think it's good for kids to know both good printing and cursive with personal preference later if they have to take lots of notes in college like I did where I learned to write very quickly.

[JenneinCA]

15 minutes of prime mental energy is too much for me to spend on cursive. *I* don't think it is a good use of our time.

 

If it works for you, then do it. It isn't a priority for me.

[Mommy22alyns]

Of course.

 

It is how English has been written for hundreds of years, and how people in other English-speaking countries still write. Why wouldn't we do the same?

 

To me, not teaching cursive is like the opposite of a well-trained mind. It is like dumbing down our children's education.

 

In years past--and not that far past, mind you--someone who could not write in cursive was considered poorly educated...and he was. I would certainly not want my children to be uneducated.

 

The public schools don't teach cursive. These would be the same public schools that have been producing poorly educated children for upwards of 40 years. Why would they be our model?

 

 

:iagree:

 

Now that said, I learned cursive but I never use it. I don't expect my girls to end up with gorgeous handwriting, just neat and legible. If they don't want to continue using it, that's fine. But I think it is important to learn.

[MrsMe]

Of course.

 

It is how English has been written for hundreds of years, and how people in other English-speaking countries still write. Why wouldn't we do the same?

 

To me, not teaching cursive is like the opposite of a well-trained mind. It is like dumbing down our children's education.

 

In years past--and not that far past, mind you--someone who could not write in cursive was considered poorly educated...and he was. I would certainly not want my children to be uneducated.

 

The public schools don't teach cursive. These would be the same public schools that have been producing poorly educated children for upwards of 40 years. Why would they be our model?

 

I soooo agree with this! :iagree:

 

Signing a name, beautiful writing is an art, quicker writing, developmental learning abilities, and when all the techie, computer stuff crashes, I'll be here with a family who can write and read a book with pages. :tongue_smilie:

[Critterfixer]

Depends. Art, Music and Home Ec--not essential in education today either. Oh, and Latin. No need for that either, is there?

I'd put cursive handwriting in the fine art catagory. And I think it is an important part of education, whether it is really needed or not. I don't need to teach my children about classical composers or great artists, but I choose to do it to enhance their lives based on my opinion of how both art and music enriched my life.

Ditto with cursive.

[ThreeBlessings]

I think the number one reason for teaching cursive is to be able to read cursive easily. I consider that a necessity as plenty of people write in cursive.

[Guest]

This is all very interesting. I think the majority is teach it. But which style? American or British/Italics? I am leaning towards BJU because I think it has a nice blend of the two but I don't like the added loops on b, h, and k. I know I am being picky.

 

What says the Hive?

[nansk]

I learnt traditional (but not American) cursive and now I prefer Italics. I learnt Italics last year, my dd is learning Italics and my dh improved his print handwriting with Italics.

 

You said you like the BJU-style cursive (shown here) and I would say it is preferable to the American cursive styles because it dispenses with the unrecognizable Q/G letter forms and is less loopy. I think it is a good cursive style for boys, especially.

[1GirlTwinBoys]

I'm 43 and have never used cursive since learning how to write that way, other than signing my name. I can print much faster but maybe that's because it's all I've ever done. We have the ZB books and have just started a few pages (mostly types of strokes). I must admit I'm not looking forward to teaching it.:001_huh:

[Slone07]

I'm 43 and have never used cursive since learning how to write that way, other than signing my name. I can print much faster but maybe that's because it's all I've ever done. We have the ZB books and have just started a few pages (mostly types of strokes). I must admit I'm not looking forward to teaching it.:001_huh:

FWIW, after the first few pages in our ZB workbooks, I didn't need to teach it...it's all pretty self-explanatory and my boys just hop right in and do it when I say go. There were only a couple of letters that one of my boys needed help with and I'll have them erase anything sloppy or wobbly and redo it, but other than that, it's free time for Mom. Those workbooks are great.

[Mrs Twain]

Not teaching cursive could possibly lead to a deficit in the children's education. Why would I want to chance that?

 

I also agree with many of the other comments made regarding why to teach cursive. I especially want my kids to be able to read cursive even if they don't prefer to use it.

[arliemaria]

I have always love handwriting. I have taken pride in my writing and am still upset about getting a 'C' on one handwriting assignment in the 3rd grade! I have been studying different styles of handwriting and researching a lot about this topic since it has been so popular on the boards recently. My question is: Is it ok to take a t from one style and a q from another style, etc. and make your own style? I was thinking about getting Startwrite and to make my own worksheets/books for practice. I am leaning towards some italic style letters and some ball and stick for manuscript and then I prefer some different cursive letters from different styles. I do enjoy almost all of Palmer cursive, except for the more modern 1987 Palmer F, etc. Is this just crazy? Who is this obsessive?

[boscopup]

I have always love handwriting. I have taken pride in my writing and am still upset about getting a 'C' on one handwriting assignment in the 3rd grade! I have been studying different styles of handwriting and researching a lot about this topic since it has been so popular on the boards recently. My question is: Is it ok to take a t from one style and a q from another style, etc. and make your own style? I was thinking about getting Startwrite and to make my own worksheets/books for practice. I am leaning towards some italic style letters and some ball and stick for manuscript and then I prefer some different cursive letters from different styles. I do enjoy almost all of Palmer cursive, except for the more modern 1987 Palmer F, etc. Is this just crazy? Who is this obsessive?

 

I wouldn't use Startwrite for mixing fonts within a word. It doesn't let you do that. You'd want to use Educational Fontware for that. Or just teach at the white board with you demonstrating.

[arliemaria]

I wouldn't use Startwrite for mixing fonts within a word. It doesn't let you do that. You'd want to use Educational Fontware for that. Or just teach at the white board with you demonstrating.

 

Seems like someone else is as crazy as I am to know that you can't do that within a program. haha

 

Does Educational Fontware also print the baselines, etc.?

[kristin0713]

We're doing cursive first (with Cursive First/SWR) and it won't be an issue. If done from the beginning, it helps with learning to write and read, prevents reversals, and encourages good handwriting from the beginning. We will continue to use cursive exclusively for school work. DD is having no problems recognizing all of the phonograms in both bookface print and cursive.

[mytwomonkeys]

i teach it in 3rd grade. we use handwriting without tears. it was very painless and mastered in a few weeks with just a little time spent each day. my daughter has to write all final drafts in cursive. my son will learn it next year. i'm 40 and i write everything in cursive, right down to my my grocery list - so for me, it is really valuable to know and makes writing much easier.

[Guest]

I bought Handwriting Without Tears today and educational fontware. Mine are excited since we have been doing c to c for a little bit here on a whiteboard. I plan to go very slowly. So I guess I answered my own question. I could not have done it without all of your input.

 

Thank you!!!!