extracurriculars

[gracyomalley]

hey - fishing for opinions, as I am not sure what I think right now!!!

 

 

We have homeschooled for over 5 years now, mostly classical or classical-ish. All three kids test somewhere between bright/moderately gifted and "who knows with his concommittant learning disability". Parents and aunts/uncles are gifted. Grandparents etc, too..

 

Part of homeschooling for me has always been the chance for the kids to be well-rounded. Learn Music. Learn about art. Really learn a sport. Volunteer. Be involved in Church and community activities. Find their passions and go with them. Contribute to the world. All that stuff, while also excelling academically.

 

I am making myself crazy, which isn't a surprise, with all the issues of time management, not to mention driving all over the Northwest, as they move up the levels in their sports and music, and want to add MORE THINGS!!!

 

I do believe that being challenged outside of academics is important, and the learning experiences from team sports, music competitions, etc can be just as important long term as grammer (likely more), especially for finding intrinsic motivation and livelong goals....

 

Where is the line?

 

My middle, in particular, is presently having trouble finding enough time to finish her middle school level work (she's just turned 9) while working on moving up a level in gymnastics, falling in love with ballet, and being about to step into Orchestra and advanced level violin study (which she previously hated...now I find myself telling her to stop playing Canon in D because "you learned that last year and you don't have time to practice old stuff for fun"....this seems counter-productive!!!)

 

Now, in my opinion, she is the classic "moderately" gifted kid (never fully tested, I'm just guessing - maybe top 1-2% on most standardized tests.). She tends to do very well with anything she works hard at, but in no areas so far is the kid you would recognize across the room as a natural (as opposed to her older brother with music). I was similar. I don't want her to sacrifice one thing for another yet - until she's older or something really jumps out...nor does she, but you can't have it all! I also know what its like to be "THAT KID", and end up feeling like you are not good at anything, because you are not THE BEST at anything....dumb, I know, but real.

 

Now, if I just treated her like a PS kid and did grade level work with her, we'd be fine...her friends in gym have no trouble finishing their times table worksheets and reading 20 minutes after practice, but somehow DDs 6th grade work or new concerto piece doesn't go over so well after a 4 hour workout!! As a homeschooler, I belief in challenging them, but having NO busywork does have disadvantages!

 

I know that this is probably just a "season" of our being overwhelmed, and likely if I just relax, she'll find her way. But when does mommy just have to say enough is enough, "less this and slow down, you'll learn it later, and that's ok", whether it be pre-algebra, science, a fly-away on the uneven bars, getting to pointe in ballet, or the next Vivaldi piece?

 

How much should a gifted 9 year old get to choose? I really do know that if I make ALL her choices, this is a kid who will NOT FLOURISH!!!!!

 

I'm sure someone out there has some words of wisdom? Anyone BTDT?

 

thanks,

Erin

[JennW in SoCal]

I don't know about words of wisdom, but I'll think out loud for a bit, see if something helps....

 

My kids were very busy, too, and I'm still racking up the miles on my car from driving the youngest around town. Fitting in a trip to the DMV for his learner's permit is one of those chores that has fallen by the wayside! I also am a violin teacher of students who super busy with many activities. Shoot, I was the kid who couldn't decide between academics, ballet or violin, still couldn't decide into my 30s!

 

On the one hand, I think kids in general are pushed far too early into specializing, whether in soccer or violin or theater or ballet. On the other hand, I have students who don't practice because they are exhausted from all their other activities. Striving to be the best is what our culture of course values, but doing something for the sheer pleasure it brings is equally valuable.

 

I'm running out of time as I have to get my ds to class, so I'll stop thinking philosophically and offer my homeschool mom tips and thoughts from what worked with my busy kids.

 

School is in the morning and early afternoon -- NEVER after a 4 hour rehearsal or other activity.

 

School doesn't have to be hours and hours each day to be rigorous and challenging. School can be 4 days a week.

 

Audio books are terrific for all that time spent in the car.

 

If your dd doesn't have a clear passion, be sure she is at least getting a solid technical foundation in whatever she is doing so that she can specialize when she is ready.

 

Look at your calendar as a family and talk about everyone's activities and enlist the kids to think about how to make it work. Help your kids figure out what they love and what is just habit.

 

And there is no simple answer!

[Mergath]

From what you've said, it sounds to me like she needs to slow down. All kids need time to just relax and be kids- intellectual ability has nothing to do with it. She may be intelligent enough to keep up, but that doesn't mean she has the maturity to decide how much is too much. That's where you as the parent need to step in.

 

Not knowing your child, I can't say, "I think this should be dropped and this cut back," or whatever, but I do think you should enforce some limits and not let her do too much.

[LisaKinVA]

For sanity's sake... we just have to limit activities. There is only one sport we can participate... because around here, the sporting activities are all over the place (such as... there are 3 fields for t-ball, each a 45 minute drive from the other, and not close to the 3 fields for little league for grades 2-4, which are not close to the 3 fields for little league for grades 5-7, etc., etc.) And, the same goes for football, soccer, with 5 kids, this just isn't feasible.

 

So, my kids all have choir/drama/bells at the church. One day a week, plus a few extra rehearsals and performances. They are in one gender-based activity (boy scouts/girl scouts), and in one activity at the YMCA (swimming, or kid-fit which is at the same time as swimming). That's it.

 

We do have a subscription to Dallas School of Music for them to practice keyboarding/piano or guitar, but we can't afford $25/hr per child lessons anyhow, so this is a huge compromise.

 

Limits are fine. As adults, we have to pick and choose, too. We can't do everything we want. Set the parameters, and then let your 9yo dd make some decisions.

[Woodland Mist Academy]

:lurk5:

 

This is something I wonder about as well. I haven't quite decided what approach to take. Great topic.

[MinivanMom]

School is in the morning and early afternoon -- NEVER after a 4 hour rehearsal or other activity.

 

School doesn't have to be hours and hours each day to be rigorous and challenging. School can be 4 days a week.

 

Audio books are terrific for all that time spent in the car.

 

If your dd doesn't have a clear passion, be sure she is at least getting a solid technical foundation in whatever she is doing so that she can specialize when she is ready.

 

Look at your calendar as a family and talk about everyone's activities and enlist the kids to think about how to make it work. Help your kids figure out what they love and what is just habit.

 

And there is no simple answer!

 

:iagree:

 

I love these bits of advice. I agree with the previous posters that we can't really tell you what to cut back on or what to eliminate. Although you never want a child to specialize too early, the point does come where you have to make hard choices if you are going to excel. A child who is more talented than average will have to make those hard choices earlier than the average child would.

 

I remember reading once that it's harder on the parents of gifted children when their kids give up activities. If your child is a talented gymnast and a talented dancer, it's going to be painful to see her give up either activity. The reality, though, is that you can't pursue gymnastics at your daughter's level and pre-professional ballet. Choices have to be made. It may feel like you are cutting off opportunities in the activity she gives up, but instead you have to look at it as opening up even more opportunities in the activity she chooses.

 

Good luck to you. Right now my kids are still small enough that I can juggle everything they want to do. I don't look forward to the time when I have to help them choose.

[boscopup]

Limits are fine. As adults, we have to pick and choose, too. We can't do everything we want. Set the parameters, and then let your 9yo dd make some decisions.

 

:iagree: This is a huge struggle for MANY adults. My own DH used to do all kinds of things before we had kids, and as our family has expanded, he's had to cut down on more and more activities. Likewise, I've had to cut down on activities. I don't have time for dog obedience/agility anymore. I had to give it up. I used to be in a community band. I've had to give that up. We've had to set priorities for our activites and drop the ones we just don't have time for without burning out.

 

School children have the same problem, yet they're not mature enough to know or desire to drop something. You're probably going to have to say "I'm limiting you to x number of activities. Let me know which ones you want to keep and which ones we'll drop."

 

My oldest currently does hockey and Cub Scouts. That's it. He's 7, and doesn't need more than that. Later on, he may choose different activities, but he's not going to be allowed to have 10 different things going on. He needs some "relax and be a kid" time too. :)

 

When I was in high school, I basically had 2 main activities - band and horseback riding. The horseback riding was on Saturdays only, and band was during the week. I didn't have time for anything else along with all the hefty courses I was doing in high school (I regularly stayed up until 11pm doing homework). I don't remember ever doing more than 2 main activities as a child... When I was little, I did soccer and ballet, and later I started the horseback riding, but wasn't doing the other stuff at that point.

 

And I'm sad that you're having to tell her not to practice a piece she learned last year. That's part of the fun of music, playing our favorite pieces! It's kind of like reading... You don't just read one book and never read it again. You find a book you like, and you read it many times over the years, each time finding something different that you didn't notice before. It would be wonderful if she had the time to practice the pieces she LOVES as well as the new pieces she's working on, and I'm sure you'd like to see that too. :grouphug:

[gracyomalley]

Thank you all for your helpful responses, its at least nice to hear that I am not alone.

 

We have already cut out a lot of activities. The kids dabbled in scouting, but we all decided that it wasn't "worth" it compared to other things. We have cut back on our hobby farming (although dd in particular loves animals and begs for a horse, sheep, etc....) until we all have time to really do it right. We dropped outside art and spanish, and have not done co-op classes, all for the same reason. The kids are limited to one sport at a time...I do believe in 'down time" and we have no TV, try to get outside regularly, and they still like to play together....playdates are rare, based upon business...but she sees her friends at gym for 12-16 hours a week, so I figure that's fine!

 

I think I just made the mistake of letting intense kids (with an intense mom) pick things that they can really sink their teeth into and run with it...its VERY hard to say no to opportunities for your kids...we become adults soooo soon, and, at least for me, there's no time for any personal passions other than raising my kids right now....I haven't touched the piano more than twice in the last 6 months! So if they don't get to do it now, I know that they may never....of course, I also know that that is ok...intellectually I know that, but emotionally???

 

We do use audiobooks, and I am trying to figure out a way for her to do some meaningful work during the 3 hour drives to gymnastics meets...which are all "over the mountains" from here...thankfully, her coach realizes this is a hardship and limits the number the girls attend...the boys team travels much more....and I have already told the boys we will miss some this year.

 

I probably need to look at the idea of a certain number of hours of school work a day and she's done, and let her do violin and play after that - even if we don't "finish it all". What is reasonable for a 9 year old? I know the virtual public school here expects 4.5 hours/day....but we school year round, so I may not even need that much? She's a fast worker...and could do a lot in that time, unlike her 2E brother....who has the same balance problem, but only gym and violin, and I expect him to drop gym within the next 2 years....based on where his true talents and interests lie...although he does love the hang out time!

 

So advanced work but not at an accelerated pace in order to still be a kid and enjoy her music and gym/ballet? Mom should be ok with half a math lesson a day...right? Let her have time to see which (ballet or gym I think will be what she has to choose between within the next year or so...) areas she really wants to stick with? I am sure she would still finish "a grade of work" per year this way.

 

Off to teach the 7 year old, while the others sleep in a bit....the late nights with orchestra and gym are part of the problem!

Erin

[catz]

I probably need to look at the idea of a certain number of hours of school work a day and she's done, and let her do violin and play after that - even if we don't "finish it all". What is reasonable for a 9 year old? I know the virtual public school here expects 4.5 hours/day....but we school year round, so I may not even need that much? She's a fast worker...and could do a lot in that time, unlike her 2E brother....who has the same balance problem, but only gym and violin, and I expect him to drop gym within the next 2 years....based on where his true talents and interests lie...although he does love the hang out time!

 

This works well for our academically accelerated kids. Just setting some limits for how long we'll work on school. We practice music first thing in the morning. We can be done by lunch if we get up promptly and keep at it. I wouldn't compare what you're doing to a virtual school either. Many of those virtual schools have SO much busy work that a homeschooled, accelerated kid wouldn't need to do. My kid's output work levels are much closer to their age and they just work where they're at. My oldest is doing AoPS algebra, but never more than an hour a day and some days less.

 

And these things like music, gymnastics, dance, theater, sports, etc ARE highly educational and beneficial IMHO. I think it's easy to lose sight of how valuable these activities are. Especially for kids that aren't necessarily challenged easily academically.

 

Late nights are killing us right now too! We're having a hard time getting up at our usual time.

[zaichiki]

So advanced work but not at an accelerated pace in order to still be a kid and enjoy her music and gym/ballet? Mom should be ok with half a math lesson a day...right? Let her have time to see which (ballet or gym I think will be what she has to choose between within the next year or so...) areas she really wants to stick with? I am sure she would still finish "a grade of work" per year this way.

 

That's what we do: advanced work but not an accelerated pace. This is really a factor of time. The kids have other things they want to do with their time and that's good, IMO

 

Some days my 9y.o. dd skips spelling. Some days we do half a math lesson. Some days she reads for hours, writes a short letter to a friend, and prepares questions for her book club that evening and I count that as LA for the day. Sometimes history is skipped during the week, but gets done on the weekends, around lots of down time. Some days dd does a minimum of viola practice. Other days she practices/plays a LOT. In the end it all evens out.

 

(We don't have sports around here anymore. We cut them two years ago. But honestly, I'm getting ready to sign up for sports again: my kids just need to move.)

 

It's HARD to juggle everything.

[alisonslp]

Wow, this sounds like my family! I have

- dd10 (mod GT)who does gymnastics 4hrx4days,

- ds10 (mod GT)who does guitar 1hr/daily, hockey 2x/wk and travel ball 2-3x/wk plus weekend tournaments, and

- ds8 (high GT)who swims 3hr/wk

 

one of the major benefits of HS is that you tailor make it to fit your family and what's important at that point in your life. If you are finding she is having trouble with the work load and the sports/music are very important to you then there is no reason why you shouldn't lessen the work load a bit. It sounds like she is already at least 3 yrs above grade level. Letting her coast for a little in terms of not as much work (but still challenging, ability level work) is just fine. I would never bring her back down to her traditional grade level though. No reason for that. Just lighten the load a little. It will take her longer to get through it but she has plenty of time! One of the benefits of accelerated learners is that they can afford to slack off a little in favor of other passions.

 

It has taken several years of trial and error to arrive at where we are but here is what we do:

 

3-4 hrs a day for schooling depending on how much and who is teaching (I teach more concepts than DH so my days are longer usually)

 

we integrate subjects when we can: spelling and grammar are done in the context of their writing. If they spell a word wrong, they have to copy it 3x correctly. If they repeat the error several times, we assign more reps. It really motivates them to think about the spellings before writing. Same for basic grammar: commas, caps, etc.

 

we integrate history and current events (history always repeats itself)

 

They do monthly projects in which they have to touch on all academic subjects. They have a full month to research, prepare a presentation with visuals (diorama, poster board, building, etc) and present it to the family. obviously ds8's is less involved than the twins10 but he holds his own. This is where science really is addressed.

 

They do 2 math lessons each 3 days a week and review difficult problems the other 2 days They spend about 1hr on their lesson days and maybe 1/2 hr tops for review days.

 

they read an hr a day, mostly in the car.

 

We did rosetta stone spanish last year but without much policing from dh, it rarely got done and they didn't progress far. We are learning some sign language and spanish informally this year. The twins have plenty of time before I HAVE to incorporate a foreign language anyway.

 

As for the sports end of it - I just feel if the kids have a passion, you need to let them follow it. I sometimes feel that ds10 has too much on his plate and sometimes his school work suffers but it usually takes just a little talk to get him back on track. dd handles her 16 hours at the gym with no problems. she will go to 5days 20hrs next year and I am not concerned at all. I would be very concerned if she was in a traditional middle school though. Way too much stress and homework.

 

We are quick to rearrange our schedule for tournaments and meets. We either will double up earlier in the week or just put off the work until the following week. I rarely make them do work on the way to competitions because I really want them to relax. Reading would be the extent of work I would require and even then, I likely just give them free reign on the book vs. an assigned book. Their mind is not going to be hooked on the book just before a big meet/game so an assigned book is just going to get skimmed over, at best.

[Guest brissieyan]

We have struggled with this same issue with my dd9 with gymnastics(15+ hrs/week), trampolining (8hrs/week), swimming (3+hrs/week) and piano (1 hr/day) with schoolwork squeezed in there somewhere. She also travels for weeks a year to compete.

I have decided recently that I will give her the primary years (elementary) to focus on her extracurriculars without requiring too much output from her academically. She works a year or two above her grade and reads about 7 years above her grade but we skim over history, have all but given up on science, latin, other foreign languages and any other extras. WE focus on the three Rs. My reasoning is that she is reaping so much benefit from her participation in her extracurriculars that content rich subjects can easily be caught up on later. Acceleration is also less of a priority to us at this stage. Every choice we make has some sacrifice and I think this is one of the wonderful advantages of homeschooling. We can make choices rather than having them dictated to us.

My daughter was also doing dancing at one stage and ice-skating at another time but I when their time and money requirements increased I made her choose. She chose the sports that meant the most to her. Sometimes I have thoughts of "what if..." regarding those sports but she has no regrets at all.

Good luck with your choices.