quark 8,719 Report post Posted October 26, 2011 First, I hope it's okay to post this here on the high school board. I'm looking for ideas to help my math-loving son keep loving math. At the same time, I'm unable to let all structure go because I've found that he thrives best with a daily plan. This child has completed Algebra I and a few chapters from the AoPS Intro Number Theory and Intro Geometry books. He is however, hitting chapters that are obviously becoming too hard for him to handle on his own. We are at this present time, unable to afford a tutor/ mentor so a lot of the hand-holding comes from me/ Dad but to be honest, I'm no math expert and his Dad travels/ is very busy with work at least 2 out of every 3-4 weeks. His frustration with the more difficult chapters in the AoPS books is undermining his usual confidence in the subject. He has stopped doing math for fun like he used to...and this worries me. I have other high school math texts at home but I don't think that's the solution for him atm. We live too far away from math circles and he is not too keen on working on math olympiad style books either. I was wondering if I could come up with a plan that involves working with numbers and patterns at a high challenge level but not as challenging as AoPS for now. For instance, a plan that could combine codes and ciphers, geometrical constructions, reading about math, logic puzzles etc. He has always been fascinated by trig so I'm not sure how to include that without doing geometry first. Perhaps what I'm looking for is a type of math unit study but for a longer period of time and at a high challenge level (about jr high-freshman level) So here are my questions: 1. I would love ideas for books and resources for the plan described above. We have exhausted most of the living math and code-cipher and constructions-type books at the 4th-8th grade levels. I'd love suggestions for books and websites. 2. He thrives with videos. Has anyone used Khan Academy as their sole math curriculum? I'm thinking of having him do a little Khan daily or every other day to just help keep things fresh in his head while he plays with the non-traditional math resources I'm seeking in question 1. 3. Any suggestions on introducing trig without going through geometry first? I keep telling him we can't do trig without geometry...but I'm not totally convinced about this. I mean, I've had people tell me 8-year-olds can't do algebra I on their own and obviously, it was different for him. He's still young so perhaps if it's not working, we could always revert back to the traditional sequence later when he is of high school age? Thanks for listening and reading this far! Share this post Link to post Share on other sites

persinem 14 Report post Posted October 27, 2011 This sounds like my son a few years ago. Â I'd suggest looking into some of the Key Curriculum Press books, in particular, Crossing the River With Dogs, which is full of sophisticated math problems (the book is used in college courses for non-math majors) but presented in a whimsical way. Â For videos my son loved "The Joy of Mathematics," a video course through the Teaching Company taught by Arthur Benjamin. Â And I can't say enough good things about the "Murderous Maths" series by Kjartan Poskitt, which goes through trigonometry. Here is the web site: Â http://www.murderousmaths.co.uk/ 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites

persinem 14 Report post Posted October 27, 2011 (edited) sorry for my still-clumsy use of the forum tools. Edited October 27, 2011 by persinem double post--sorry! Share this post Link to post Share on other sites

Barbara H 1,709 Report post Posted October 27, 2011 Some resources that worked well for us - not free but your library may have some of these (and some of the others you can probably get older editions for pretty cheap). Â Books by Martin Gardner and Ian Stewart. Â Teaching Company courses. - Joy of Mathematics is good and there are many others. Â Thinkwell courses with Dr. Burger (he's on some of the TC courses too). Â This book http://www.amazon.com/Crossing-River-Dogs-Problem-Students/dp/1931914141 Yes, it is supposed to be a college level book but there are problem solving portions that would certainly be appropriate for middle schoolers. Â Just as an exploratory thing he might want to search for free fractal drawing software online. That can be fun to play with. 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites

persinem 14 Report post Posted October 27, 2011 Actually here is a better page to see the Murderous Maths books: Â http://www.murderousmaths.co.uk/ Â They are published in the UK. I have heard they will come out in the US 'soon' but we were willing to pay the postage and my son still after 3 years enjoys taking them out and re-reading them. They each have a different focus and can be read out of order but there is something to be said for ordering them all and letting your child choose their own path. 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites

quark 8,719 Report post Posted October 27, 2011 Thank you for your suggestions! Â He's read all the Murderous Maths books, and he wants more trig now. We have the Crossing the River book, he hasn't taken a look at it for a while so I'll definitely add that in, thanks so much for reminding me! :) Â We have several Art Benjamin and other Great Courses on math but not Joy of Math so thanks for that idea too! I'll definitely look for fractal software as well. Â He has been a math addict for some time now so goes through resources very quickly when they appeal to him so I'd love more suggestions if anyone thinks of any. Â I just spoke to him about putting the AoPS books away for a while and he's excited to try this new approach. We love AoPS but obviously, there's also a limit to what he can take atm. Â Thanks again for listening to me. I was quite worried earlier today. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites

persinem 14 Report post Posted October 27, 2011 Have you tried the AOPS pre-Algebra book and course? My son took the AOPS Algebra course last year when he was 10 and did all right but kind of hated it. It was his idea to do AOPS pre-Algebra this year and it has been a great thing for him, as the AOPS course even at the pre-algebra level has a lot of actual algebra in it, and it has given him a chance to relax, have fun, and really nail difficult concepts. 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites

Belacqua 3,595 Report post Posted October 27, 2011 Another vote for Joy of Mathematics and Martin Gardner books. Â Have you poked around the Mathcounts website? They have an archive of nifty problems, as well as short math videos by Richard Ruscyzk (the AoPS founder). 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites

Julie of KY 3,116 Report post Posted October 27, 2011 The math mini's on the Mathcounts website are great. Â Take a look at Alcumus on the Art of Problem Website. It starts easy and works at the levelf of your child. It is addictive and teaches lots, but it is easy to do just a problem or two. Too often we're in the middle of a challenge and want to keep solving more problems. 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites

Kathy in Richmond 2,855 Report post Posted October 27, 2011 Project Mathematics has some good, if old-fashioned, trig videos. They were produced at Caltech by Tom Apostol, one of my math heroes (:001_wub:...author of my favorite theoretical calculus books). Each one has an accompanying workbook available, too. Â We showed the trig series to our 8 to 10 year old mathies at camp last summer, and they were a hit. The only snag is that they're kind of pricey for home use. But if he's really interested, you might want to check them out. 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites

elegantlion 20,987 Report post Posted October 27, 2011 Actually here is a better page to see the Murderous Maths books:Â http://www.murderousmaths.co.uk/ Â They are published in the UK. I have heard they will come out in the US 'soon' but we were willing to pay the postage and my son still after 3 years enjoys taking them out and re-reading them. They each have a different focus and can be read out of order but there is something to be said for ordering them all and letting your child choose their own path. Â You can order them from bookdepository with free shipping. http://www.bookdepository.com/search?searchTerm=murderous+maths&search=search 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites

Emerald Stoker 365 Report post Posted October 27, 2011 nm Share this post Link to post Share on other sites

joannqn 539 Report post Posted October 27, 2011 My 9 year old also finished Algebra 1 last year. We tried going into AoPS Counting and Probability but found it too difficult. We decided to go back and do AoPS Prealgebra for a few reasons. First, the material is easier, which allows him/us to get used to AoPS's method of teaching. It also lets us wet our feet with problem solving on easier material. Second, there are plenty of new concepts in their version of prealgebra that we haven't already covered. He's also spending time at Khan Academy and Alcumus. 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites

Tattarrattat 89 Report post Posted October 27, 2011 I second Martin Gardner too. We like this one: Â http://www.amazon.com/Colossal-Book-Short-Puzzles-Problems/dp/0393061140/ Â Also, Moscow Puzzles is nice to have. Â DS learned some Trig from doing Khan problems and watching his videos. I borrowed Lial's Trigonometry from the library when he was really interested in Trig this summer. He didn't read much though(I probably read it more than he did) But if your library has trig textbooks, maybe your son might like to read one of them? A traditional textbook may be a good way to relax and learn? Â We bought The Cryptoclub when DS was younger, but it may be a little easy for your DS now. Â Maybe he will like Harold Jacobs' Mathematics--A Human Endeavor too? Â We also have bunch of old Dell logic puzzle magazines that they sell cheap on their website. Â Just some ideas. HTH. 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites

Emerald Stoker 365 Report post Posted October 27, 2011 nm Share this post Link to post Share on other sites

Tattarrattat 89 Report post Posted October 27, 2011 Harold Jacobs's "Mathematics: A Human Endeavor," Â Just noticed that Honoria mentioned the same book too.:tongue_smilie:. I didn't refresh the page before I submitted the previous post.:001_smile: 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites

Lori D. 23,963 Report post Posted October 27, 2011 (edited) Wow! Great ideas from everyone! In addition, maybe some "off the beaten path" math topics and problem solving in: Â Calculus for and by Young People (book and a CD with videos) (explore the author's website) (see samples) (purchase) Â Â TOPS units (I'm guessing a 9yo would enjoy the hands on aspect of these) -- these are rated for grades 6 up through high school #02 Measuring Length #03 Graphing #07 Far Out Math #08 Probability #35 Metric Measuring #36 More Metrics Â Â Patty Paper Geometry -- rated for grades 6-10, so this might be a great introduction into Geometry for him! Â Â GENERAL RESOURCES - Between the Folds -- incredible film on the mathematic, scientific, and artistic uses of origami - The Phantom Tollbooth (Juster) -- a fun Alice-in-Wonderland-like math world - Conned Again, Watson! Cautionary Tales of Logic, Math, and Probability (Bruce) - The Number Devil: A Mathematical Adventure (Enzensberger) - Math Trek: Adventures in the Math Zone (Peterson) - Math Trek 2: A Mathematical Space Odyssey (Peterson) - The Man Who Counted: A Collection of Mathematical Adventures (Tahan) - The Adventures of Penrose the Mathematical Cat (Pappas) - Exploring the World of Mathematics (Tiner) -- key math discoveries and puzzles through history, and their connection with science - Mathematicians Are People, Too: Stories from the Lives of Great Mathematicians (Reimer) Edited October 27, 2011 by Lori D. 2 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites

quark 8,719 Report post Posted October 27, 2011 You guys are the best! :) Â I don't mean to be ungrateful but we already have (and DS has read and worked with) so many of the books suggested. He is a math-addict through and through and does math even when I ask him to go play. Using the AoPS books and stumbling and getting upset is the first time that I'm seeing him lose interest and why I was stumped. Â Martin Gardner books including the Gardner-edited Moscow Puzzles he loves and will repeat-read, so we're still good there. In fact, I think I'll just have him work on these and Crossing the River with Dogs for the next few days and see what happens. (LOL, just suggested this out loud to him while typing the post and he's dancing around the kitchen with joy -- perhaps it's all just a scheduling mistake on my part. I should probably just scrap the rest of the scheduled subjects for a while and let him play more with math). Â Math Trek, Penrose, The Man Who Counted, every one of those has been read and re-read here. I haven't seen Conned Again Watson though, Lori, so will check that out. Thanks so much! Â And Project Mathematics sounds great Kathy, thanks so much too! Â Honoria, we love those geometer pages! I print them out for him to read and play with. It was in one of those pages that he discovered that one of his "pet theories" has already been discovered lol. I will certainly check some of the other links out too. Â Sorry if I don't thank you all personally. I'm very grateful for all the ideas. I am sure there are some resources I haven't seen yet so I will save this thread and come back whenever I'm stuck. Â Human Endeavor and Ed Berger for some reason don't excite him. I haven't seen or asked him about the AoPS prealgebra book yet so will do that too. Â I will copy and paste all the suggestions into another message in this thread so others will be able to have it all in one list. Â Thanks so much everyone! Share this post Link to post Share on other sites

quark 8,719 Report post Posted October 27, 2011 (edited) Here are all the non-traditional/ living math resources suggested so far, and hope I'm not missing anything. My thanks again to you all!Crossing the River With Dogs (Key Press) -- July 2014 update: editions have changed since I last looked. There's an instructor resource and key here, and the edition we briefly used, without a key IIRC, is here.The Joy of Mathematics by Arthur Benjamin (Teaching Company)Murderous Maths series by Kjartan Poskitt (cheaper if purchased through Horrible Books or Book Depository, compare prices first!)Books by Martin Gardner and Ian StewartThinkwell coursesFractals software/ web applicationsThe Art of Problem Solving books (not exactly living math but not exactly traditional either) and AlcumusMathCounts websiteProject Mathematics- available here tooElements of Mathematics snippetsBurger and Starbird's Heart of Mathematics (also, Joy of Thinking Teaching Company course by same professors)Jacob's Mathematics: A Human EndeavorMoses Richardson's Fundamentals of MathematicsMEP-Bletchley Park codes and ciphers free curriculumMartin Gardner puzzles like this oneThe Moscow PuzzlesThe CryptoClub (workbook available for free here)Dell logic puzzlesQED and other books from the Wooden Books serieshttp://www.ics.uci.e...in/recmath.htmlhttp://www.hoagiesgifted.org/math.htmhttp://www.geometer.org/mathcircles/http://mathforum.org....c/sheila1.htmlhttp://opinionator.b....even-strogatz/http://www.tanyakhov...s/bookrevs.htmlhttp://www.g4g4.com/puzzles1.htmlhttp://users.soe.ucs....education.htmlhttp://www.homeschoo...line/gifted.phphttp://www.tarquingroup.com/index.phpCalculus for and by Young People (author's website)TOPS units:#02 Measuring Length#03 Graphing#07 Far Out Math#08 Probability#35 Metric Measuring#36 More MetricsPatty Paper GeometryBetween the Folds -- incredible film on the mathematic, scientific, and artistic uses of origamihttp://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bJRBiIeFe7QN is a Number (Paul Erdos)http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5iflQseSSfAThe Story of Maths (BBC)http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WtAGTFCcbToThe Phantom Tollbooth (Juster)Conned Again, Watson! Cautionary Tales of Logic, Math, and Probability (Bruce)The Number Devil: A Mathematical Adventure (Enzensberger)Math Trek: Adventures in the Math Zone (Peterson)Math Trek 2: A Mathematical Space Odyssey (Peterson)The Man Who Counted: A Collection of Mathematical Adventures (Tahan)The Adventures of Penrose the Mathematical Cat and other books by PappasExploring the World of Mathematics (Tiner)Mathematicians Are People, Too: Stories from the Lives of Great Mathematicians Vol 1 (Reimer) and Vol 2Problem Solving Through Recreational Mathematics by Averbach and CheinHard Problems DVD and Hard Problems on YouTube - about the 2006 USA IMO teamThe Code Book by Simon SinghDiscrete Math by Arthur Benjamin (Teaching Company)Book by Brian BoltDiscovering Trigonometry with Sticks and Shadows (online lessons)Zome GeometryeIMACSI'm also including other materials not mentioned (or I might have missed them if already mentioned) that we've enjoyed or hope to enjoy soon:The Art and Craft of Problem Solving by Paul Zeitz (Teaching Company)Books by John Conway (eg. The Book of Numbers)The Number Freak by Derrick NiedermanThe Math Forum problemsCrimes and Math DemeanorsBooks by Keith DevlinVarious math opportunities:from the Stanford sitemathwonk's summer camps postPhilips Exeter Academy free math resources post (thanks to Spy Car/ Bill and Arcadia for some great links)Arcadia's Math Olympiad links compilation post (awesome Arcadia, thanks so much!)Ruth's request for graph theory resources (thanks to Ruth for asking, and to all who responded with such fabulous ideas!)How to become a pure mathematician - lots of links for math up to and beyond calculus (HT to Bostonian)Math/ Geometry with origami - using origami to enhance math appreciationTeaching Geometry to a Kinesthetic Learner (August 2013 thread)ETA: March/April 2013: Updating to add some resources DS is enjoying is his free time and resources I am bookmarking for future use:Perplexing Puzzles and Tantalizing Teasers by Martin GardnerLewis Carroll's Games and PuzzlesThe Canterbury Puzzles by DudenayMathematical Amazements and Surprises by Posamentier and LehmannNumber Theory: A Lively Introduction with Proofs, Applications and Stories by Pommersheim et.al.The Ambitious Horse: Ancient Chinese Mathematics Problems by SwiencikiLeonardo's Mirror and Other Puzzles by Ivan MoscovichNRich MathsVirtual Math ClubBAMO sample problemsMathPath - mathlinks, proof, qualifying test for admissionWooden BooksETA: September 2013 - DS is currently studying abstract algebra topics covered in these resources (he is using mentor-created curricula and not these resources specifically, but will refer to them when needed). Linking here for others with kids interested in abstract algebra.Abstract Algebra: A Study Guide for BeginnersIntro Abstract AlgebraA Gentle Introduction to Abstract AlgebraETA: March 2014 - Adding elementary and middle school level free pdfs for additional math practice. These are fun and slightly different from standard math curriculum.MEP curriculumhttp://mathlearnnc.s...&pageId=5048438 (scroll down for weekly grade level resources K-2)http://mathlearnnc.s...&pageId=5051238 (scroll down for weekly grade level resources 3-5)http://mathlearnnc.s...&pageId=5149151 (scroll down for weekly grade level resources 6-8)See Arcadia's math workbooks links compilation thread for Math Pizzazz and other resources.ETA: January 2015 - DS has been using a large number of the resources bookmarked here (since 2007 thereabouts) and is one example of a kid being allowed to play with non-traditional math resources who is doing very well dual enrolled in community college classes. My only regret is that he never has time to pick up Art of Problem Solving books often enough but he has had no trouble whatsoever keeping up with higher expectations in upper high school and intro college level math. Mentioning it here as a chance to encourage those of you contemplating a non-traditional approach to math learning. The key thing for us was to do math in two or three strands...a strand for common math expectations like algebra 1, geometry etc just so we were covering bases, and then, strands for problem solving and fun math alongside.ETA: April 2015:These are traditional but high end online courses for math beyond calculus:Stanford OHSx University-Level Math and Physics (online version and I think it doesn't require Stanford Online High School enrollment)NETMath (online college mathematics courses from the University of Illinois at Urbana-Champaign.)MIT Primes for research projectsETA: July 2015:DS is enjoying Matt Parker's Things to Make and Do in the Fourth Dimension. You might have heard of Matt on Numberphile. Our paperback copy is from The Book Depository (free shipping) because it was cheaper there a few weeks ago vs on Amazon.ETA: October 2015 - January 2016:For the first time since we began homeschooling, DS didn't take any formal math classes. Instead, he is unschooling math by creating ideas in his head and working on them whenever the mood strikes him. It's scary but also very fulfilling for me to see that 2 semesters of boring calculus 1 and 2 at the community college did not affect his love of the subject. Currently (early Jan 2016) waiting for news about dual enrolling for math at a major research university! Meanwhile, the AoPS-MIT Primes Crowd Math initiative is keeping him very happy and busy.ETA: May 2016: Completed a dual enrolled honors math class at said research uni! :) Excited about taking one more in spring 2017.Fall 2016: applying to colleges and hoping to major in math! This thread was started just after DS turned 9. He has come a long way since then and I am so grateful to you all for your help! Â Dec 31, 2016: He is 2016's highest (high school level) contributor to the AoPS Crowd Math initiative. Â Spring 2017: upper division math/ more abstract algebra via honors abstract algebra at the research uni! Â Feb 2017: Accepted as full time student at said research uni. So happy! Â Feb 2018: Almost finished with math major requirements and researching Topos Theory with a grad student mentor. Â Check out The Parallel Project by Simon Singh (cool puzzles). Edited February 12, 2018 by quark to add resources 39 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites

Emerald Stoker 365 Report post Posted October 27, 2011 nm Share this post Link to post Share on other sites

quark 8,719 Report post Posted October 27, 2011 Added to the list (gotta love that Edit button) and my Amazon cart! Thanks Honoria! :hurray: Share this post Link to post Share on other sites

Belacqua 3,595 Report post Posted October 27, 2011 There's also the dvd called Hard Problems. It follows the US team at the IMO a few years ago. Nifty. Sorry if it's already on the list...this banquet of mathy goodness has made my eyes go all swirly. :) 2 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites

quark 8,719 Report post Posted October 27, 2011 (snipped)this banquet of mathy goodness has made my eyes go all swirly. :) Â LOL! I'm in heaven...so glad I asked! Share this post Link to post Share on other sites

obsidian 885 Report post Posted October 27, 2011 Teaching Company also has a course called Discrete Mathematics. The Code Book is a really good history of cryptography. Oh, and you could try the AoPS online classes (there are some young kids in them). AoPS also has the Intro to Counting and Probability book. Also, the AoPS forums are a great resource. 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites

letsplaymath 576 Report post Posted October 27, 2011 Two ideas that I don't think have been mentioned: Â Books by Brian Bolt might be just at his level. My library carries several of these. Â Discovering Trigonometry with Sticks and Shadows (online lessons) 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites

onaclairadeluna 115 Report post Posted October 27, 2011 Project Mathematics has some good, if old-fashioned, trig videos. They were produced at Caltech by Tom Apostol, one of my math heroes (:001_wub:...author of my favorite theoretical calculus books). Each one has an accompanying workbook available, too.Â We showed the trig series to our 8 to 10 year old mathies at camp last summer, and they were a hit. The only snag is that they're kind of pricey for home use. But if he's really interested, you might want to check them out. Â http://math.buffalostate.edu/~giambrtm/MAT501/Projmath/Project_Mathematics%21.html Â This has videos and pdfs of the chapters. Â And the same site some bits from "Elements of Mathematics" which my son loves. If you poke around on it there are a few cool things. Â http://math.buffalostate.edu/~giambrtm/MAT501/Chp1/operations.htm Â You have a great list so far! Â I'd add competition math. AMC 8 that type of thing might be fun for him. Â Zome Geometry Â and EIMACS logic for mathematics materials 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites

Kathy in Richmond 2,855 Report post Posted October 27, 2011 http://math.buffalostate.edu/~giambrtm/MAT501/Projmath/Project_Mathematics%21.htmlÂ This has videos and pdfs of the chapters. Â And the same site some bits from "Elements of Mathematics" which my son loves. If you poke around on it there are a few cool things. Â http://math.buffalostate.edu/~giambrtm/MAT501/Chp1/operations.htm Â You have a great list so far! Â I'd add competition math. AMC 8 that type of thing might be fun for him. Â Zome Geometry Â and EIMACS logic for mathematics materials Â Thanks, onaclairadelaluna! I didn't realize that those films were online anywhere. I knew that the Buffalo State site hosted the CSMP materials, but I had no idea how many other nifty math treasures were hiding out there. :) Â And I'll second the Zome tool kit. 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites

quark 8,719 Report post Posted October 28, 2011 Thank you everyone! :thumbup: Share this post Link to post Share on other sites

persinem 14 Report post Posted October 28, 2011 I forgot one of my son's enduring favorites: The Math Book by Clifford Pickover: Â http://www.amazon.com/Math-Book-Pythagoras-Milestones-Mathematics/dp/1402757964/ref=ntt_at_ep_dpt_1 Â It's incredible. The author this year also published "The Physics Book" that is similar in scope and appeal. 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites

IrishMum 375 Report post Posted March 26, 2013 Great list, some I hadn't heard about, Thanks quark. 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites

Ethel Mertz 2,481 Report post Posted October 25, 2014 Bumping because it's a really good thread. 6 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites

OneStepAtATime 52,889 Report post Posted October 27, 2014 Awesome thread. Â Thanks, Ethel Mertz for bumping... 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites

Heliconia 15 Report post Posted January 30, 2015 This list is making me drool. Thank you so much everybody. 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites

quark 8,719 Report post Posted January 30, 2015 I have updated post #19 with our latest status. I am so glad we took a non traditional path alongside a slightly more traditional one for math. It has done wonders for his love of learning! 5 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites

OneStepAtATime 52,889 Report post Posted January 30, 2015 :hurray:Â :hurray:Â :hurray: 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites

Heliconia 15 Report post Posted February 7, 2015 I have an advanced 4y old and following a traditional path which is kinda slowing him down. This post opened my eyes to the plethora of possibilities to let him thrive in math without the pressure of workbooks and such (even if it's SM/IP/CWP). Thanks again Quark! 2 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites

quark 8,719 Report post Posted July 31, 2015 Bumping to add a book that DS is enjoying so very much right now: Matt Parker's Things to Make and Do in the Fourth Dimension. You might have heard of Matt on Numberphile. Our paperback copy is from The Book Depository (free shipping) because it was cheaper there a few weeks ago vs on Amazon. 2 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites

katilac 19,699 Report post Posted August 2, 2015 Fun thread, I'm going to take some notes.Â Â I would definitely work hard to try and bring the joy back, but i would also try and emphasize that it's okay to struggle, and that slowing down and hitting walls is part of the overall learning process.Â Â It can be really hard for some accelerated kids when they first hit work that is truly difficult for them, particularly in a beloved subject. There's nothing wrong with moving backwards or sideways when you are ahead, but I try to make sure my kids know that eventually they are going to get past the point where native intellect and 'fun' amounts of work are enough. Â Â You've probably said all of that at least once, of course, but some kids need to hear it early and often. My dd went through some grim periods in math, lol, but is now excited about senior math and actually considering a math major (and she's not advanced at all in the typical math sequence).Â Â Even 'mathy' kids usually hit this awkward point where the work gets hard but doesn't yet have the interesting payoff that much of the earlier math did. It sounds like you're putting together a good plan to work past it (as much as one can).Â 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites

Arcadia 22,453 Report post Posted August 2, 2015 Bumping to add a book that DS is enjoying so very much right now: Matt Parker's Things to Make and Do in the Fourth Dimension.Thanks! Reserved the library's (MV) copy :)Â ETA: DS10 started read MV copy at home yesterday evening and now reading the copy at Palo Alto. He is laughing while reading. 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites

quark 8,719 Report post Posted August 2, 2015 Fun thread, I'm going to take some notes.Â Â I would definitely work hard to try and bring the joy back, but i would also try and emphasize that it's okay to struggle, and that slowing down and hitting walls is part of the overall learning process.Â Â It can be really hard for some accelerated kids when they first hit work that is truly difficult for them, particularly in a beloved subject. There's nothing wrong with moving backwards or sideways when you are ahead, but I try to make sure my kids know that eventually they are going to get past the point where native intellect and 'fun' amounts of work are enough. Â Â You've probably said all of that at least once, of course, but some kids need to hear it early and often. My dd went through some grim periods in math, lol, but is now excited about senior math and actually considering a math major (and she's not advanced at all in the typical math sequence).Â Â Even 'mathy' kids usually hit this awkward point where the work gets hard but doesn't yet have the interesting payoff that much of the earlier math did. It sounds like you're putting together a good plan to work past it (as much as one can).Â Â Thank you katilac. I agree wholeheartedly with the bolded. Just a small heads up that my OP is an older thread. I updated it recently (post 34) to say how glad I am that we took the path less trodden. I am so glad for this thread because the responses really gave me the courage to allow him to keep using a slightly out of the box way to learn math. Â 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites

katilac 19,699 Report post Posted August 3, 2015 Thank you katilac. I agree wholeheartedly with the bolded. Just a small heads up that my OP is an older thread. I updated it recently (post 34) to say how glad I am that we took the path less trodden. I am so glad for this thread because the responses really gave me the courage to allow him to keep using a slightly out of the box way to learn math. Â Â Wow, a REALLY old thread, lol.Â Â I'm just getting back from vacation. That is my official excuse.Â 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites

happybeachbum 128 Report post Posted September 10, 2016 (edited) I know this post is old. Here are some suggestionsThe Joy of Mathematics: Discovering Mathematics All Around You andMore Joy of Mathematics: Exploring Mathematics All Around You by Theoni PappasWhat Is Mathematics?: An Elementary Approach to Ideas and Methods by Herbert RobbinsMitsumasa Anno booksMath Games & Activities from Around the World andMore Math Games & Activities from Around the WorldÂ by Claudia Zaslavsky Edited September 10, 2016 by happybeachbum 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites

SarahW 3,354 Report post Posted September 10, 2016 The immortal fun math thread!Â :hurray: Â I'd forgotten about this. I have to go back through the resources listed here now that my kid's older and our situation has changed. Â FYI: The Number Devil is both a book and a CD-Rom game. We got the book from the library last year, but now I'm curious about the game. Â In another thread I mentioned Lit2Go, and I went looking through it myself to see if there's anything new. They have various old math books, but one, Philosophy and Fun of Algebra, caught my eye. DH and Crazypants have philosophical discussions often, and I know DH feels a bit intimidated by CP's math skills and disconnected from doing it with him, so I thought this might be a fun thing for them to do together. But on the other hand....it is very much a vintage book. Could any of you math-people take a glance at it and weigh in on whether it is worth spending time on? 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites

Arcadia 22,453 Report post Posted September 10, 2016 (edited) SarahW, Â I have only read the first chapter but it has less philosophy than I was hoping for. I read from this link which has a pdf, audio and a student activity pdf. The student activity for chapter one is only a question. http://etc.usf.edu/lit2go/95/philosophy-and-fun-of-algebra/1639/chapter-1-from-arithmetic-to-algebra/ Â You can also read from here https://archive.org/stream/philosophyandfun030851mbp#page/n95/mode/thumb Â ETA: I'll read the rest of the book later. Got to get my morning coffee and my kids to german class. Edited September 10, 2016 by Arcadia 2 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites

Janeway 4,886 Report post Posted September 10, 2016 I did not like AoPs. But I loved Jurgenson's Geometry. Maybe he just needs a change of curriculum? Â Also..Derek Owen's classes look great. 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites

quark 8,719 Report post Posted September 10, 2016 I did not like AoPs. But I loved Jurgenson's Geometry. Maybe he just needs a change of curriculum? Â Also..Derek Owen's classes look great. He used and finished Jurgensen's! Thanks! Update in post 19! :) He has come a long way since this thread started. I loved all the replies! 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites

SarahW 3,354 Report post Posted September 10, 2016 SarahW, Â I have only read the first chapter but it has less philosophy than I was hoping for. I read from this link which has a pdf, audio and a student activity pdf. The student activity for chapter one is only a question. http://etc.usf.edu/lit2go/95/philosophy-and-fun-of-algebra/1639/chapter-1-from-arithmetic-to-algebra/ Â You can also read from here https://archive.org/stream/philosophyandfun030851mbp#page/n95/mode/thumb Â ETA: I'll read the rest of the book later. Got to get my morning coffee and my kids to german class. Â I think by "philosophy" it means logic, the limits of knowledge, and a discussion of what infinity is. Which sounds fun to me.Â :w00t: Â I was hoping there'd be more questions provided. But since we're now afterschooling, I'm trying to keep pencil work to the absolute minimum here. The one question should be enough for DH to prompt discussion. Â I'm envisioning this as bedtime math. Not, obviously, a full Algebra course. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites

quark 8,719 Report post Posted September 10, 2016 I knpw this post is old. Here are some so.e suggestionsThe Joy of Mathematics: Discovering Mathematics All Around You and More Joy of Mathematics: Exploring Mathematics All Around You by Theoni Pappas Â What Is Mathematics?: An Elementary Approach to Ideas and Methods by Herbert Robbins Â Mitsumasa Anno books Â Math Games & Activities from Around the World and More Math Games & Activities from Around the WorldÂ by Claudia Zaslavsky Â Wonderful looking resources, thank you! To quickly add, Anno's books are fabulous and there are more Pappas books out there too for math lovers to discover (search Amazon and also look up livingmath.net). And I completely forgot to include Family Math in post #19. Â The immortal fun math thread!Â :hurray: Â I'd forgotten about this. I have to go back through the resources listed here now that my kid's older and our situation has changed. Â FYI: The Number Devil is both a book and a CD-Rom game. We got the book from the library last year, but now I'm curious about the game. Â In another thread I mentioned Lit2Go, and I went looking through it myself to see if there's anything new. They have various old math books, but one, Philosophy and Fun of Algebra, caught my eye. DH and Crazypants have philosophical discussions often, and I know DH feels a bit intimidated by CP's math skills and disconnected from doing it with him, so I thought this might be a fun thing for them to do together. But on the other hand....it is very much a vintage book. Could any of you math-people take a glance at it and weigh in on whether it is worth spending time on? Â Your cheering smiley made my morning! That looks like a super fun resource actually. I think *I* would have loved it. My DS though not so much. He loves both logic and philosophy but for him this resource would have come across as patronizing or long winded (don't ask me why, his opinions drove me bonkers too). If CP adores going through these pages, please update us! Share this post Link to post Share on other sites

happybeachbum 128 Report post Posted September 11, 2016 (edited) I loved the Family Math Books Â Mystery Math:Â A First Course in Algebra by David Adler Â The I Hate Mathematics Book and Math for Smarty Pants by Marilyn Burnes Â Apple FractionsÂ and The Hershey's Milk Chocolate Bar Fractions BookÂ by Jerry PallotaÂ Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Card Games http://bedtimemath.org/trading-card-games-for-kids-build-math-skills http://www.crewtonramoneshouseofmath.com/math-with-playing-cards.html http://www.guided-math.com/p/card-games.html http://teachingmahollitz.wordpress.com/2011/09/11/math-games-gin-rummy Â http://engagedfamilygaming.com/board-games/7-board-games-that-teach-math-skills Â Can't forget Mancala http://www.teachingace.com/mancala-and-more-math-mania Â or Dominoes http://mathwire.com/numbersense/dominoes.html Â SenetÂ Though no one really knows or agrees on how the game was played, because there were no existing instructions how the rules of the game unlike the Royal Game of UR or (20 squares) http://www.cs.brandeis.edu/~storer/JimPuzzles/GAMES/Senet/Senet.pdf Â On another note a great text (though this is the high school board so yes young) is Ray's Primary Arithmetic.Â I used it to teach my younger cousins with vase-fillers during the summer.Â I had a lot of aha moments.Â Because it's oral, using real objects, how it's structured.Â The addition lesson alone taught not only addition, but also subtraction and multiplication.Â The main reason is teaching someone else helps you to learn concepts or at least a journey to better understanding. Â Another great textbook is Mathematics:Â A Human Endeavor by Harold Jacobs I found this as well.Â http://www.mrbenson.org/math-unplugged/ Edited September 11, 2016 by happybeachbum 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites

Arcadia 22,453 Report post Posted September 11, 2016 (edited) I think by "philosophy" it means logic, the limits of knowledge, and a discussion of what infinity is. Which sounds fun to me. :w00t: ... I'm envisioning this as bedtime math. Not, obviously, a full Algebra course. Chapter 6 and 7 makes some references to the Ten Commandments. Chapter 10 makes reference to Israel and Hebrew. As an agnostic who went to a catholic school for preK-6th and watched Jesus of Nazareth, I get the biblical references but as an agnostic. My kids would be wondering about some references though. I haven't read past chapter 10. Edited September 11, 2016 by Arcadia Share this post Link to post Share on other sites