How would you feel if someone took your kids out to dinner...

[Blessedchaos]

I would most definitely NOT be okay with it.

[justamouse]

I think it is a "higher" standard to choose not to. :) There is no benefit to drinking with a meal or to drinking, period. If we were talking about something with major positives, people would have a good argument. I find it strange that people would be unwilling to do that in the company of children.

 

We teach our kids that alcohol, when consumed in moderation, is fine for a lot of people. But then we just discuss the issue that there is really no valid reason to start. There really are no benefits, so why risk it? There is alcoholism in our family as well, so it's just a no-brainer that having the self-control to avoid it is a wise decision.

 

It's called Resveratrol and it's extremely good for you.

[LibraryLover]

I think the upset was over driving after imbibing - not imbibing in and of itself.

 

 

We all drove home. It was a 2 in the afternoon gathering of homeschooled kids whose moms sipped a bit a bit of sherry , while knitting. lol

Edited October 24, 2011 by LibraryLover

[LibraryLover]

:lol:

I'm coming to knit with you.

 

She was probably splashing the sherry in the clam chowder. ;)

 

 

Please! Come join us! We have a bit of town rep as beng boring, no matter the sherry!

 

Hostess did also serve nuts and cheese. Not nearly as good as chowder. BUT!

 

At the Grange fair, her dh was on the kitchen committee and they did serve chowder-- with real oyster crackers!

 

Of course, I did go out to a *wine* tasting and cheese fundraiser last night in a big dirty city. We also went to a ...pub with music...afterwards.

 

Crazy! I still managed to take the kids apple picking today (sunday!!), visited my bil with cancer, and proofed & edited the hsers history essay! I live a wild and car-azy life!

 

Of course, don't mind me, but i also played craps in Vegas 8 weeks ago.

 

As far as Mrs Mungos question about morning drinks (which is another thread, right?), I am pretty sure I said nothing beats a Bloody Mary.

Edited October 24, 2011 by LibraryLover

[Mrs Mungo]

Oh yeah, LL? I have had wine at a *McDonald's* full of kids (seriously, it is the one place there should always be wine). My parents were there, my mom had wine and my dad had a beer. I think he mostly had a beer to brag to the guys at work that he had beer at a McDonald's in France. Top that. ;) :lol:

Edited October 24, 2011 by Mrs Mungo

[Penelope]

It may be culturally normal, but that doesn't mean it is as safe to have one drink with dinner and drive as it is to drive with no drinks.

 

There is documented impairment and increased risk of accidents with just one drink, at blood alcohol levels well below the legal limit. A person does not have to feel tipsy to have their vision and reaction times impaired.

[Mrs Mungo]

It may be culturally normal, but that doesn't mean it is as safe to have one drink with dinner and drive as it is to drive with no drinks.

 

There is documented impairment and increased risk of accidents with just one drink, at blood alcohol levels well below the legal limit. A person does not have to feel tipsy to have their vision and reaction times impaired.

 

One drink with a meal, assuming a regular restaurant meal where it takes a couple of hours from start to finish? No. The body metabolizes about one drink an hour, the alcohol enters your bloodstream more slowly when you have it with food. It would be out of your system by the end.

Edited October 24, 2011 by Mrs Mungo

[LibraryLover]

Oh yeah, LL? I have had wine at a *McDonald's* full of kids (seriously, it is the one place there should always be wine). My parents were there, my mom had wine and my dad had a beer. I think he mostly had a beer to brag to the guys at work that he had beer at a McDonald's in France. Top that. ;) :lol:

 

 

 

LOL Here's my couner offer. Chuck E Cheese. It exists, not because of the tickets turned in for trinkets, but because one can get pitchers of wine or beer with said pizza. One can also bring in their own homemade, sugar-free cake.

 

This is why Chuck E Cheese survives.

Edited October 24, 2011 by LibraryLover

[Amy1k]

Again, how LONG should you be expected to wait after a drink in order to not be impaired? I'm confused by the comments. A glass of wine (or two really) over the course of a restaurant meal, will be out of your system (unless you have some sort of physical issue that changes how your body metabolizes alcohol) by the time you leave. I'm not talking about chugging alcohol. I'm talking about sipping it with the meal.

[Mrs Mungo]

LOL Here's my couner offer. Chuck E Cheese. It exists, not because of the tickets turned in for trinkets, but because one can get pitchers of wine or beer with said pizza. One can also bring in their own homemade, sugar-free cake.

 

This is why Chuck E Cheese survives.

 

:lol:

 

Again, how LONG should you be expected to wait after a drink in order to not be impaired? I'm confused by the comments. A glass of wine (or two really) over the course of a restaurant meal, will be out of your system (unless you have some sort of physical issue that changes how your body metabolizes alcohol) by the time you leave. I'm not talking about chugging alcohol. I'm talking about sipping it with the meal.

 

Exactly.

[Penelope]

One drink with a meal, assuming a regular restaurant meal where it takes a couple of hours from start to finish? No. The body metabolizes about one drink an hour, the alcohol enters your bloodstream more slowly when you have it with food. It would be out of your system by the end.

 

I don't think it's as cut and dried as that, to say there is zero increased risk.

 

A 200 pound man having one beer sipped over the course of an hour, then sitting around another hour for dessert and conversation? Okay.

 

A small woman does not metabolize one drink per hour such that the level will be zero in one hour. And I've never been to a meal with children, even in a nicer restaurant, that lasted two hours. Unless we're talking a birthday party or something that will last a while.

[Mrs Mungo]

I don't think it's as cut and dried as that, to say there is zero increased risk.

 

A 200 pound man having one beer sipped over the course of an hour, then sitting around another hour for dessert and conversation? Okay.

 

A small woman does not metabolize one drink per hour such that the level will be zero in one hour. And I've never been to a meal with children, even in a nicer restaurant, that lasted two hours. Unless we're talking a birthday party or something that will last a while.

 

My children are 15, 13 and 10. They are plenty old enough to sit through dessert and conversation.

[Amy1k]

I recently learned in my son's drivers ed class that driving while tired is considered more of a driving hazard than driving drunk. /random info ;)

[Amy1k]

While looking for info to back that up, I read on a car insurance site that eating/drinking while driving increases your chance of an accident by 80%. Assuming that is true, what would you do if you found out that a person ate a Big Mac and fries (with ketchup!!! ;) ) while driving your kid home?

[keptwoman]

While looking for info to back that up, I read on a car insurance site that eating/drinking while driving increases your chance of an accident by 80%. Assuming that is true, what would you do if you found out that a person ate a Big Mac and fries (with ketchup!!! ;) ) while driving your kid home?

What about talking on a mobile phone? Or changing tunes on the car stereo, they also feature highly in accidents.

[LMD]

'A' drink, or two, would not register here. In fact I drove my children home after a glass of wine just a few days ago. First glass of wine I'd had in months - probably over a year.

 

It's very interesting because the drink/drive message is very different here, we can't drive til 18y/o.

[FairyMom]

For me, if you gave me a talk on how you did not want me to drink and/or have a drink with dinner and then drive, it would tell me that you did not ultimately trust my judgment. So, it would probably mean no more hanging out with each other's kids alone.

 

 

:iagree:

[helena]

.

Edited October 24, 2011 by helena

[keptwoman]

No one is getting their kicks, they are disagreeing and stating why.

 

I consider your position illogical, but I have an equally illogical position on motorbikes after my Mum was killed when riding pillion and my brother broke his back 6 months later in a motorbike accident. You do not get on a motorbike while you live under my roof, no kind of motorbike in no circumstance is acceptable, my children will NEVER ride a motorbike while I have a say in it.

So while I disagree with you, I do understand how one comes to such a position.

[Amy1k]

When I was 16 I was shot in the back by my younger brother, by accident, with my dad's gun. It has been over 20 years, but I still have an unreasonable fear of guns. I am not comfortable, at all, with firearms being in my home or in my presence. I understand that many people are ok with them. The people close to me understand, and are patient with, my fear. :)

[Amy1k]

I see that keptwoman and I went to pretty much the same place with our posts. ;)

[Joker]

No one is getting their kicks, they are disagreeing and stating why.

 

I consider your position illogical, but I have an equally illogical position on motorbikes after my Mum was killed when riding pillion and my brother broke his back 6 months later in a motorbike accident. You do not get on a motorbike while you live under my roof, no kind of motorbike in no circumstance is acceptable, my children will NEVER ride a motorbike while I have a say in it.

So while I disagree with you, I do understand how one comes to such a position.

 

Yes! My dad and brother were killed because some crazy parents let their 16 yr old drive and he ran a stop sign. I know those parents are not really crazy but I also know I will have a hard time when my dds start driving and will most likely be illogical.

[WishboneDawn]

I'm glad some of you are getting your kicks on this! It's not a friend, so the problem is much more sad than the thought of Mrs Mungo not wanting to be my friend.

 

Too much cell phone, eating in the car, or being tired didn't screw up my life. Alcohol did. I'm glad for those of you who don't know how raw and vulnerable the subject can make you feel. Or what it's like to wonder if your kids aren't as important as a family members stupid f***ing drink.

 

This was never a JAWM. I made that perfectly clear.

Off to re-read "Think before you post" before I purposely say something gnarly to get this thread deleted.

 

If this issue is so sensitive to you then perhaps you shouldn't be bringing it such such a general audience for discussion where different personalities and experiences almost guarantee that something will be said that might hurt you.

 

No one here has been insulting.

[WishboneDawn]

Yes! My dad and brother were killed because some crazy parents let their 16 yr old drive and he ran a stop sign. I know those parents are not really crazy but I also know I will have a hard time when my dds start driving and will most likely be illogical.

 

Yup. I think we all have those issues that are especially sensitive to us. I've got some around the death of my brother. The key for me is to realize they're MY issues and no one else is responsible for them or how I feel about them.

[Jean in Newcastle]

The thing is, you asked how WE would feel. We told you. As I pointed out on Mrs. Mungo's thread, I had a problem with alcohol when I was young and rarely touch it now. But I still would not feel badly if someone did as you listed in your scenario. You obviously feel differently and will need to negotiate this in your life because it will become an issue at times, as you've discovered.

[dcjlkplus3]

Not a fan of wine, but I sure wouldn't say no to a bottle of Mike's :D

 

Just had a bottle of Mike's with dinner tonight... and boy was it good!

[NanceXToo]

I posted earlier that I would be fine with someone having one drink with a meal and then driving my kids home after the meal (if it's someone I'm allowing to drive my kids anywhere to begin with, it's someone I trust and I trust that one drink during the course of a restaurant meal is not going to impair anyone I'd allow to drive my children around).

 

I didn't read every reply since then and just opened the last page to see what the latest responses were, and saw that the OP has become upset by some of the responses.

 

OP, like others have said, you were bound to get a wide variety of responses on a board as diverse as this and with so many members, but the bottom line is you have the final say about your kids. So if somebody did that and you weren't comfortable with it, it's perfectly okay to say to them that you're not comfortable with it and to please not do it again. We all have our own rules and comfort levels when it comes to our own children, and we get to enforce them regardless of what anybody else thinks- and it's pretty much guaranteed, no matter what the issue is, we'll have a bunch of people agreeing with us and a bunch of people sure we're overreacting. In the end, none of that matters. Only you matter. So say and do and handle this how YOU want and don't let other peoples' opinions get you so upset. Really, it's not worth it. You don't have to lay your head down in the same house as any of us at the end of the night when all is said and done, so don't let any of us get to you this way. :)

[FiveOaksAcademy]

Too much to do, too many blessings!! Don't know why I stepped into this mess.

Edited October 24, 2011 by FiveOaksAcademy
Momentary lapse of judgment to have even entered the discussion

[Mrs Mungo]

Originally Posted by helena

I'm glad some of you are getting your kicks on this! It's not a friend, so the problem is much more sad than the thought of Mrs Mungo not wanting to be my friend.

 

Too much cell phone, eating in the car, or being tired didn't screw up my life. Alcohol did. I'm glad for those of you who don't know how raw and vulnerable the subject can make you feel. Or what it's like to wonder if your kids aren't as important as a family members stupid f***ing drink.

 

This was never a JAWM. I made that perfectly clear.

 

It isn't that I would not want to be your friend. If you came to me before I took your kids under my care and said, "I have problem with alcohol because of issues in my past. It might not be logical, and it is me, not you. But, do you mind abstaining around my kids?" That would be fine.

 

But if you did *not* do that and came to me freaking out because I had a glass of wine with a leisurely dinner, then I would feel like we weren't as good of friends as I thought because you did not trust my judgment. You, obviously, would feel freaked out and like I was putting wine before your kids. But, there is no logical way for me to have known you would feel that way unless you explain yourself beforehand. If it had been my sister or aunt or someone, then I would probably actually feel more upset about it.

Edited October 24, 2011 by Mrs Mungo

[nono]

Helena,

 

You baited The Hive with the question and then got irritated/irate* that answers didn't match the one you wanted because not all was revealed in the question....:001_huh: Take a look at that dynamic. Not fair to all of us who tried to help you understand differing positions. See ya! :auto:

 

*hard to characterize without the posts to refer to now

[plansrme]

Helena,

 

You baited The Hive with the question and then got irritated/irate* that answers didn't match the one you wanted because not all was revealed in the question....:001_huh: Take a look at that dynamic. Not fair to all of us who tried to help you understand differing positions. See ya! :auto:

 

*hard to characterize without the posts to refer to now

 

Gee, that's never happened before...

 

I have to say, though, that you can usually tell who is looking for real opinions and who is looking for a chorus of "way to go, Mom!" I do, however, appreciate the posters who respond with contrary opinions even to those who are obviously only looking to hear from people who agree with them. Good for us all, I'd say. And I'm making general observations, not judgments about the original poster's original intent--I can't see the posts.

 

Terri

[Jenny in Florida]

It *is* hooey to say that someone is impaired if they had a glass of wine while eating a retaurant meal with all of the waiting that goes on throughout. It is hooey to imply to your child that the other parent probably meant well, but showed poor judgment.

 

 

 

Zero tolerance almost always results in intellectual dishonestly and over simplification. Hence, the boy kicked out of school for the Lego minifig gun.

 

But, you see, I'm honest enough to admit that I would be impaired by that single glass of wine. And I do believe it would be poor judgement for an adult to have a drink knowing they were in charge of driving someone else's child home.

 

We can absolutely agree to disagree about whether the parent's behaviour was appropriate, but sweeping generalizations about "hooey" annoy me.

 

And, again, I fail to see how telling my child that, while most people are probably fine to drive after a single drink with dinner, we would rather they call us for a ride home under those circumstances. I'm not lying to my kids. As I said, my husband does drink. So, it's not like we "demonize" alcohol.

 

It reminds me of the scene in the movie Mean Girls that shows the coach telling the kids never to have sex, because, "You will get chlamydia and die." Of course, that's ridiculous and not something I would ever say to my child. However, we do talk honestly about making good choices.

 

And, for what it's worth, I think Tara's story about the parent who was upset because Tara and her husband were having a drink in their own home was ridiculous. The differences to me in that situation were that:

 

1. No one was driving.

2. They had not agreed in advance to take on the care of someone else's child.

 

And, while I don't want to see a child expelled for bringing a toy to school, I would not have a problem with a "no weapons" rule. We have that rule in our home. I don't know the details of the story you mentioned, unfortunately. But I can see taking away a toy that represented a weapon if the school has a rule about it. I would do so gently and return the toy to the child at the end of the day. So, perhaps my version of "zero tolerance" is a little different from yours.

[Jenny in Florida]

I realized I should clarify my statement about zero tolerance policies. IF you say "most people are fine to drive after one drink per hour, but because some people are not, and you can't tell, I don't want you to drive with anyone that has had any alcohol at all within the last hour" that is a zero tolerance policy that makes sense and doesn't oversimplify.

 

Which is much closer to the policies we have here.

 

Funny story: I was telling my daughter a little bit about this conversation last night, and she was reminded of an icident from when she was away at school. One of her friends had a parent visiting, and the parent took the girls to dinner. The restaurant is within easy walking distance of the campus; however, the parent chose to drive (perhaps because it was chilly?). The parent had a beer with dinner. My daughter felt uncomfortable with having the parent drive her back to the dorm as planned. So, she made a polite excuse about an errand and walked back on her own.

 

She never mentioned anything about it to her friend. And it was such a non-issue that she hadn't mentioned it to me, either, until it came up in conversation last night.

 

There was no dramatic blow-up. My daughter used her judgement and handled the situation politely. Life went on.

 

I don't see why this is something over which battle lines need to be drawn.

[kwg]

Well. I read it all :svengo:except for the parts that had been deleted.

 

If it bothers you, op, then it bothers you. I have plenty of things that bother me that do not bother others. I have a childhood that was shaped by alcoholism so I can understand how it can be :grouphug:

 

 

I am not sure what to tell you to do about it exactly. Might have to limit dinners out with people that you feel comfortable enough to just say, "hey I have issues with drinking, mind not doing it" or people who just know you well enough to know that would be an issue so wouldn't dream of doing it anyway. Obviously you did not realize though that it would come up so it is something to think about.

 

I am sorry; hope it didn't bring up too much "past stuff" :grouphug:

[Haiku]

The parent had a beer with dinner. My daughter felt uncomfortable with having the parent drive her back to the dorm as planned. So, she made a polite excuse about an errand and walked back on her own.

 

See, now, when I read this, my first thought was, "She walked back alone? Was it dark? Is that safe?" As a woman I would be far more sensitive to the potential dangers of walking around a college campus alone in the dark than I would in riding in a car with someone who had "a" beer.

 

Interesting difference in perspective.

 

Tara

[Jenny in Florida]

See, now, when I read this, my first thought was, "She walked back alone? Was it dark? Is that safe?" As a woman I would be far more sensitive to the potential dangers of walking around a college campus alone in the dark than I would in riding in a car with someone who had "a" beer.

 

Interesting difference in perspective.

 

Tara

 

They walked the whole area all the time. It's the small campus of a women's college in a small city. Walking home from the pizza place was something she might have done any night over a four-year period. No biggie.

[Mrs Mungo]

But, you see, I'm honest enough to admit that I would be impaired by that single glass of wine. And I do believe it would be poor judgement for an adult to have a drink knowing they were in charge of driving someone else's child home.

 

We can absolutely agree to disagree about whether the parent's behaviour was appropriate, but sweeping generalizations about "hooey" annoy me.

 

It is not a sweeping generalization to say that if you ordered a glass of wine at the beginning of dinner and sipped it with your meal over the course of an hour and a half or two hours that you would have metabolized it by the time you paid the tab. A body metabolizes one drink per hour. That is science.

 

And, while I don't want to see a child expelled for bringing a toy to school, I would not have a problem with a "no weapons" rule. We have that rule in our home. I don't know the details of the story you mentioned, unfortunately. But I can see taking away a toy that represented a weapon if the school has a rule about it. I would do so gently and return the toy to the child at the end of the day. So, perhaps my version of "zero tolerance" is a little different from yours.

 

It isn't my definition, it is the school's:

http://articles.nydailynews.com/2010-02-04/local/27055391_1_toy-gun-machine-gun-common-sense

[I talk to the trees]

Which is much closer to the policies we have here.

 

Funny story: I was telling my daughter a little bit about this conversation last night, and she was reminded of an icident from when she was away at school. One of her friends had a parent visiting, and the parent took the girls to dinner. The restaurant is within easy walking distance of the campus; however, the parent chose to drive (perhaps because it was chilly?). The parent had a beer with dinner. My daughter felt uncomfortable with having the parent drive her back to the dorm as planned. So, she made a polite excuse about an errand and walked back on her own.

 

She never mentioned anything about it to her friend. And it was such a non-issue that she hadn't mentioned it to me, either, until it came up in conversation last night.

 

There was no dramatic blow-up. My daughter used her judgement and handled the situation politely. Life went on.

 

I don't see why this is something over which battle lines need to be drawn.

 

Kudos to your daughter for her handling of the situation!

 

As for the battle lines... well, there will always be someone out there who labels all opinions different from their own as "hooey." I think the best any of us can do is to follow our own conscience, instinct, and common sense!

[Mrs Mungo]

Which is much closer to the policies we have here.

 

Funny story: I was telling my daughter a little bit about this conversation last night, and she was reminded of an icident from when she was away at school. One of her friends had a parent visiting, and the parent took the girls to dinner. The restaurant is within easy walking distance of the campus; however, the parent chose to drive (perhaps because it was chilly?). The parent had a beer with dinner. My daughter felt uncomfortable with having the parent drive her back to the dorm as planned. So, she made a polite excuse about an errand and walked back on her own.

 

She never mentioned anything about it to her friend. And it was such a non-issue that she hadn't mentioned it to me, either, until it came up in conversation last night.

 

There was no dramatic blow-up. My daughter used her judgement and handled the situation politely. Life went on.

 

I don't see why this is something over which battle lines need to be drawn.

 

How would this have gone down if your dd was ten and insisted on calling you because the restaurant was too far to walk? What if you got there and realized the parents weren't even drinking alcohol, they were drinking mineral water? You couldn't see the other adults being annoyed that you trust the judgment of a ten year old over the adult?

 

Let us use something else. My sister knew someone whose baby drowned in a pool. She freaked out when my aunt was going to babysit all of the kids because my aunt has a pool and the kids were going to swim. My aunt politely declined to babysit my sister's baby as a result. This really upset my sister even more. But, she was demonstrating that she did not trust the judgment of my aunt and uncle when she freaked out in the first place. It is not a matter of drawing battlelines. It is a matter of actions have consequences.

[Murphy101]

My children are 15, 13 and 10. They are plenty old enough to sit through dessert and conversation.

 

Good heavens. I have 10 ages 4 months to 16 and it's not a problem for us either. :001_huh: Well I occassionally I get dirty looks for nursing the LO a the table. And that's without my have a glass of wine. They'd probably spaz if they saw a breastfeeding woman having a glass of wine. The ignorant fools.:glare:

 

It isn't that I would not want to be your friend. If you came to me before I took your kids under my care and said, "I have problem with alcohol because of issues in my past. It might not be logical, and it is me, not you. But, do you mind abstaining around my kids?" That would be fine.

 

But if you did *not* do that and came to me freaking out because I had a glass of wine with a leisurely dinner, then I would feel like we weren't as good of friends as I thought because you did not trust my judgment. You, obviously, would feel freaked out and like I was putting wine before your kids. But, there is no logical way for me to have known you would feel that way unless you explain yourself beforehand. If it had been my sister or aunt or someone, then I would probably actually feel more upset about it.

 

This. My fil loves motorcycles. He thought I was being a PITA to refuse to let my kids get on them with him. I explained I still have a vivid memory of a really sweet guy getting his head half ripped off while riding his motoccle to school when another driver didn't see him. The helmet didn't really matter. He was a good kid and the accident wasnt his fault. Itty human with cute helmet on a motorcycle is always going to lose against a pickup truck at 40 MPH. And I think putting a diabetic on a motorcycle is just stupid. My dh has excellent management, but that really doesn't matter if the one time he has an insulin reaction is on a motorcycle.

[goldberry]

, but the bottom line is you have the final say about your kids. So if somebody did that and you weren't comfortable with it, it's perfectly okay to say to them that you're not comfortable with it and to please not do it again.

 

 

:iagree: Simply say, "look, this is a bit of an issue for me, so here is what I need from you if you would like to have my kids." If they think you are a freak and are not willing to cooperate, you wouldn't want them to have your kids anyway. My close friends accept my "freakiness" in some areas and are willing to accommodate!

[Jenny in Florida]

How would this have gone down if your dd was ten and insisted on calling you because the restaurant was too far to walk? What if you got there and realized the parents weren't even drinking alcohol, they were drinking mineral water? You couldn't see the other adults being annoyed that you trust the judgment of a ten year old over the adult?

 

Well, in this particular case, she could have called me, but I wouldn't have been able to get there until the next day. (Her campus was 800 miles from our home.) However, in general, the answer to your question is no. I cannot understand why an adult would be offended or upset that a child in his or her care was uncomfortable and wanted the involvement of a parent. And, honestly, any adult who would get bent out of shape about a simple misunderstanding like that is not someone I would trust with my child again.

 

It's not about "trusting the judgement of a child over an adult." It's about honoring the concerns of a human being who happens to be under the age of 18. And I would expect an adult who was mature enough to be in charge of my child to respect that.

 

Let us use something else. My sister knew someone whose baby drowned in a pool. She freaked out when my aunt was going to babysit all of the kids because my aunt has a pool and the kids were going to swim. My aunt politely declined to babysit my sister's baby as a result. This really upset my sister even more. But, she was demonstrating that she did not trust the judgment of my aunt and uncle when she freaked out in the first place. It is not a matter of drawing battlelines. It is a matter of actions have consequences.

 

How I reacted to this situation would depend entirely on the specifics. How old is my child? Is he or she a good swimmer? How reliable and present is the aunt? How many kids will be there? How many adults will be supervising? What is the range in age of the children who will be swimming?

 

Please note that I've repeatedly said there would be no "freaking out" over the alcohol situation being discussed. I've repeatedly said I would be polite. I've told you a story about how my daughter handled a similar situation without so much as mentioning the reason she declined the ride. I don't think the parallels between my position and your sister's reaction are all that clear.

 

However, if I were your sister and the answers to the kinds of questions I asked above didn't leave me feeling secure, I would apologize to my aunt for being possibly over-sensitive about this and then make alternate child care arrangements.

 

I don't see any need for anyone to freak out or be offended on either side.

Edited October 24, 2011 by Jenny in Florida

[Mrs Mungo]

:iagree: Simply say, "look, this is a bit of an issue for me, so here is what I need from you if you would like to have my kids." If they think you are a freak and are not willing to cooperate, you wouldn't want them to have your kids anyway. My close friends accept my "freakiness" in some areas and are willing to accommodate!

 

I wouldn't have a problem with this, and I don't think most people would. This just is not the vibe I got from the now deleted posts.

[Murphy101]

This seems so weird to me. If the person knows they don't metabolize alcohol well, even just one glass - they likely know not to have the drink and it's a non issue.

 

Bottomline here:

 

Either the person has enough sense to know how much is too much or they don't. By presuming one drink is too much for anyone bc you just can't trust them to know, you are saying you don't trust their judgement.

 

If you don't trust their judgement, then it sounds like you shouldn't leave your kids with them whether there is drinking or not.

 

As for personal hangups due to past tragedy, I get that, but I wouldn't expect other people to keep it in mind. Even if I knew it, that doesn't mean I really think about it the entire time I'm around your kids. I might pour a glass of wine or dh might order a beer at the ballpark because it's just part of life. I can easily see not remembering until 1/2 done with glass or until I see the look on your face later.

 

ETA: I'd probably remember if you told me at drop off, but I doubt I'd be thinking about what you told me a month ago at my dinner tonight.

Edited October 24, 2011 by Martha

[Jenny in Florida]

It is not a sweeping generalization to say that if you ordered a glass of wine at the beginning of dinner and sipped it with your meal over the course of an hour and a half or two hours that you would have metabolized it by the time you paid the tab. A body metabolizes one drink per hour. That is science.

 

Actually, the rate at which alcohol is metabolized varies with all kinds of factors, including body weight. And there is also variation in how it affects different people.

 

Nor do we know for sure how long this meal took to eat or at what point the drink was served. It's not as simple as you wish to make it sound.

 

It isn't my definition, it is the school's:

http://articles.nydailynews.com/2010-02-04/local/27055391_1_toy-gun-machine-gun-common-sense

 

I agree that the reaction to this incident was over the top. Actually, I more or less agree with what the parents say they think should have happened, although I would have preferred to have the gun removed until the end of the day.

 

However, I am capable of recognizing the principal's reaction as out of line without needing to attack the policy.

 

That is the kind of common sense and respect I think it lacking in the current discussion.

[Mrs Mungo]

Well, in this particular case, she could have called me, but I wouldn't have been able to get there until the next day. (Her campus was 800 miles from our home.) However, in general, the answer to your question is no. I cannot understand why an adult would be offended or upset that a child in his or her care was uncomfortable and wanted the involvement of a parent. And, honestly, any adult who would get bent out of shape about a simple misunderstanding like that is not someone I would trust with my child again.

 

Let me try to rephrase here because I don't think that I am making myself understood.

 

If you and your dh had a bottle of mineral water with dinner and a child with you refused to get in the car with you and insisted that you call their parent, would you feel comfortable caring for that child again? Or would you feel that maybe there is too high of a chance for a misunderstanding in some other arena?

[Jenny in Florida]

Let me try to rephrase here because I don't think that I am making myself understood.

 

If you and your dh had a bottle of mineral water with dinner and a child with you refused to get in the car with you and insisted that you call their parent, would you feel comfortable caring for that child again? Or would you feel that maybe there is too high of a chance for a misunderstanding in some other arena?

 

I wouldn't think twice about it.

 

I would make sure the child understood what had happened, apologize that he or she was upset and assure the child and parent that I would not have a drink any time I knew I would be driving that child home.

[Mrs Mungo]

This seems so weird to me. If the person knows they don't metabolize alcohol well, even just one glass - they likely know not to have the drink and it's a non issue.

 

Bottomline here:

 

Either the person has enough sense to know how much is too much or they don't. By presuming one drink is too much for anyone bc you just can't trust them to know, you are saying you don't trust their judgement.

 

If you don't trust their judgement, then it sounds like you shouldn't leave your kids with them whether there is drinking or not.

 

Exactly.

[kalanamak]

Only one drink? I don't think too many people get impaired from one drink with a meal. It wouldn't bother me.

 

It depends on the person. My hubby could have one drink and no one would know it. His driving record is clean.

 

I get flushed, rubbery, and then sleepy from more than a tablespoon of wine. A "lazy" liver with very poor first pass clearance of chemicals let everything I take go, literally, straight to my head.

 

I also have a pet theory about seasickness and booze. People who get seasick very easily don't "hold" their liquor as well. I can get nauseous on a dock smelling tar and salt air, because I've vomited on nearly every ship I've ever been on. One big swig of ETOH and my head spins. And aren't sailors infamous about drinking prodigious amounts?

[Mrs Mungo]

Actually, the rate at which alcohol is metabolized varies with all kinds of factors, including body weight. And there is also variation in how it affects different people.

 

Nor do we know for sure how long this meal took to eat or at what point the drink was served. It's not as simple as you wish to make it sound.

 

But, it is about judgment. Do your trust the adults involved or not?

 

I wouldn't think twice about it.

 

I would make sure the child understood what had happened, apologize that he or she was upset and assure the child and parent that I would not have a drink any time I knew I would be driving that child home.

 

You would have no concern that there might be some other way in which your values conflict in the future that might result in another incident?