Christians! On a daily basis, which is more important to you?

[Jean in Newcastle]

I disagree that reading the Bible is the *only* way to live like Jesus. I could use my dh as an example. He was not raised in a Christian home, but was raised by parents and grandparents who did live like Jesus. He was an atheist when we married and from the very beginning to this day, the way he lives is far, far closer to living like Jesus than 99% of Christians I know-including me. When I think of what I mean by "Live like Jesus" I think of serving others, not judging, showing compassion, treating others kindly, putting others first, forgiving, being patient and being generous. All of those describe my dh, his parents, and Grandparents.

 

I do think reading the Bible matures one in their walk with Christ and even deepens ones faith-that is certainly the case for me. But, I think "having" to read the Bible for the sake of doing it, treats Christianity as a check list.

 

I have more to say(not that it's important:lol:) but must school, work and attend a soccer game.

 

I agree that you can be taught the content of the gospel without reading the Bible. And I agree that reading the Bible can be put on some Christian's "spiritual checklist". But God does have a specific message to mankind. It is why the Bible was written the way it was. It is why the prophets received God's word and were careful to transmit it accurately. It is why the Bible has been preserved over history. It's also why the Psalms say that you can certain knowledge from creation but that isn't enough. It's also why the Psalms urge young people especially to hide God's word in their heart (which I think these believers you mention are trying to do). And it's why Jesus Himself is the WORD (logos). I don't think you can divorce Jesus from that message and still have Jesus.

[mommaduck]

:iagree:

 

You can not live what you do not know, you can not know it without reading the Book

I think Christians have done so quite well before the Canon and throughout history. I don't think it's something that only the literate can do ;)

[MamaCoop04]

In response to the low rating on reading the Bible, I think that reading the Bible is very important. No, Christians did not always have it, and today a lot of Christians still don't have it, yet live Christ like lives. The difference is that when they do have God's Word, they devour it, they memorize and memorize so it'll be with them always. It's a shame where here in our free country, we take for granted reading the Bible. What would happen if one day (can't you see it happening??) if we were no longer able to meet as Christians or have the Bible, wouldn't you wish that you would have read and memorized more? I know I need to do more. God's Word is so precious, and we actually have it, but we treat it like any other book, "I'll get to it when I have time". How can you play a game without reading the directions? You can kind of know a game and play to the best of your knowledge, but you won't be playing 100% correct. God wants us to be like His Son, and Christ was 100%. How are we ever to be 100% if we never read the instructions? Also, if we never read the Word on our own and always depend on others teaching (the church, Christian books, friends, small groups, etc-not that any of these are bad at all), how will we know that we are following what God wants us to do and not just someones good intentions or own interpretation?? We need to know God's Word for ourselves, so that we are prepared and alert, and so that it is ours.

 

Okay, now bare with me :)

Matthew 7 says:

 

13 “Enter through the narrow gate. For wide is the gate and broad is the road that leads to destruction, and many enter through it. 14 But small is the gate and narrow the road that leads to life, and only a few find it.

 

A few!! There are too many Americanized Christians out there that are traveling the wide road and have no clue b/c they are not in the Word!

 

21 “Not everyone who says to me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ will enter the kingdom of heaven, but only the one who does the will of my Father who is in heaven. 22 Many will say to me on that day, ‘Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in your name and in your name drive out demons and in your name perform many miracles?’23 Then I will tell them plainly, ‘I never knew you. Away from me, you evildoers!’

(Sorry, I can't get the bold off) Look, it says many thought they were doing good (I mean "big" good - drive out demons, perform miracles!) in God's name, but He never knew them. We cannot expect our goodness to get us to God. We need to know Him, and to know Him means giving Him to opportunity to speak to us through His own words

 

24 “Therefore everyone who hears these words of mine and puts them into practice is like a wise man who built his house on the rock. 25 The rain came down, the streams rose, and the winds blew and beat against that house; yet it did not fall, because it had its foundation on the rock. 26 But everyone who hears these words of mine and does not put them into practice is like a foolish man who built his house on sand. 27 The rain came down, the streams rose, and the winds blew and beat against that house, and it fell with a great crash."

One of the best ways to hear Him is through His word, we can't put into practice that which we do not know.

 

I know, I'm off on a tangent (spelling) but it's one I believe is worthy. We can't live like a Christian apart from God's own instructions and encouragement, likewise we can't really love the Word of God without following them with all that we are. We have God's Word, why do we use people who don't have it as an excuse NOT to read it!? Lets stop taking that freedom for granted!! Can't you imagine what the Church would look like if all Christians would read the Bible and actually apply it?!?

[Gailmegan]

I skimmed through but didn't read all of the replies. I chose the first of the two options, considering that there are only two options. I didn't really liek either of them the way it was worded. I realize that you may have RC, EO and Protestant responses here, but in the Protestant faith, particularly the Reformed tradition, we believe that living like Jesus isn't good enough. If all I teach my kids to do is to be good people, just like Jesus, I am teaching them a false gospel. I want my kids to know grace and forgiveness more than I want them to know good behavior. The good behavior will come as a result of knowing what Christ did for them and experiencing his grace through the Holy Spirit working in their hearts and through the Word of God. Does this mean that I am legalistic about reading the Bible every day? Absolutely not - or I'd be in big trouble. But I do believe (once again from the Reformed perspective) that teaching the good works of Jesus apart from the gospel is not only insufficient, but dangerous.

[Jean in Newcastle]

I skimmed through but didn't read all of the replies. I chose the first of the two options, considering that there are only two options. I didn't really liek either of them the way it was worded. I realize that you may have RC, EO and Protestant responses here, but in the Protestant faith, particularly the Reformed tradition, we believe that living like Jesus isn't good enough. If all I teach my kids to do is to be good people, just like Jesus, I am teaching them a false gospel. I want my kids to know grace and forgiveness more than I want them to know good behavior. The good behavior will come as a result of knowing what Christ did for them and experiencing his grace through the Holy Spirit working in their hearts and through the Word of God. Does this mean that I am legalistic about reading the Bible every day? Absolutely not - or I'd be in big trouble. But I do believe (once again from the Reformed perspective) that teaching the good works of Jesus apart from the gospel is not only insufficient, but dangerous.

 

:iagree: And I'm not Reformed!

[mytwomonkeys]

I agree that you can be taught the content of the gospel without reading the Bible. And I agree that reading the Bible can be put on some Christian's "spiritual checklist". But God does have a specific message to mankind. It is why the Bible was written the way it was. It is why the prophets received God's word and were careful to transmit it accurately. It is why the Bible has been preserved over history. It's also why the Psalms say that you can certain knowledge from creation but that isn't enough. It's also why the Psalms urge young people especially to hide God's word in their heart (which I think these believers you mention are trying to do). And it's why Jesus Himself is the WORD (logos). I don't think you can divorce Jesus from that message and still have Jesus.

 

i really agree with you, jean.

[mommaduck]

I skimmed through but didn't read all of the replies. I chose the first of the two options, considering that there are only two options. I didn't really liek either of them the way it was worded. I realize that you may have RC, EO and Protestant responses here, but in the Protestant faith, particularly the Reformed tradition, we believe that living like Jesus isn't good enough. If all I teach my kids to do is to be good people, just like Jesus, I am teaching them a false gospel. I want my kids to know grace and forgiveness more than I want them to know good behavior. The good behavior will come as a result of knowing what Christ did for them and experiencing his grace through the Holy Spirit working in their hearts and through the Word of God. Does this mean that I am legalistic about reading the Bible every day? Absolutely not - or I'd be in big trouble. But I do believe (once again from the Reformed perspective) that teaching the good works of Jesus apart from the gospel is not only insufficient, but dangerous.

Having come from Reformed, but am now EO: None of us are equating "live like Christ" with "be good people". That is a false assumption ;) No one is equating the Bible with "just another book". Also a false assumption. We are saying that reading the Bible doesn't make one like Christ (many people read the Bible and do terrible things)...just as being a "good" person doesn't make one Christian. What we are saying is that one can be a Christian and lead a Christlike life regardless if one is able to read the Scriptures or not.

 

Do children learn more by example or by what we use to lecture them with? Yes, we should both lead by example and teach from the Scriptures. But one is NOT dependent upon the other.

[mommyrooch]

:iagree:

 

You can not live what you do not know, you can not know it without reading the Book

 

I disagree with this. You can know it without reading the Book. How did Matthew, Mark, Luke & John know it? How did Paul know it? What about Job or Abraham? What about Noah? And the list goes on and on.

 

They knew it through the teachings of Christ. Even clear back into the old testament, many people were Christians. They learned by observing and listening to God and to other Christians around them. Not by reading the "Book"

 

On that note however, I do feel that it's very important to read the Bible. I believe that it is a roadmap if you will. It is a tool that God has given us to help guide us in our walk with him. It definately adds a great deal to our walks with God. I do not mean to imply that I don't think it's important. I believe it is VERY important. I just do not believe that it is the only way to know Christ and his teachings.

 

Decades upon decades of Christians were born into God's kingdom without actually having ever even known how to read. Many never even saw a book yet still became Christians. Many today, for various reasons (persecution, illiteracy, etc.) still don't have Bibles or the ability to read them, yet they still become Christians.

 

Actions speak louder than words. If a person is given the opportunity to "see" what a life of Christ looks like and if they are introduced to Christ through personal teachings (such as the apostles were) then I absolutely think that it's possible to know Christ without reading the Book.

Edited October 18, 2011 by mommyrooch

[Gailmegan]

:iagree: And I'm not Reformed!

 

I do know that many Protestants believe the same way wrt salvation, but "Christian" can mean so many different denomination and strains of theology that I didn't want to overstep and speak for all Christians, or even all Protestants. I figured I would be safe and only speak for my tradition. ;)

[Gailmegan]

Having come from Reformed, but am now EO: None of us are equating "live like Christ" with "be good people". That is a false assumption ;) No one is equating the Bible with "just another book". Also a false assumption. We are saying that reading the Bible doesn't make one like Christ (many people read the Bible and do terrible things)...just as being a "good" person doesn't make one Christian. What we are saying is that one can be a Christian and lead a Christlike life regardless if one is able to read the Scriptures or not.

 

Do children learn more by example or by what we use to lecture them with? Yes, we should both lead by example and teach from the Scriptures. But one is NOT dependent upon the other.

 

I wasn't commenting on the responses of any posters. I was simply replying to the OP. I don't like either of the options the way they are worded. But if I must choose, I choose the first since the Word of God does spell out the gospel, but just "living like Jesus" without understanding forgiveness and grace is empty and hopeless. I agree that there are people who read the Word who don't live it. But there are plenty who "live like Jesus" who don't know him or his grace. I would have preferred a third option.

[mommaduck]

I wasn't commenting on the responses of any posters. I was simply replying to the OP. I don't like either of the options the way they are worded. But if I must choose, I choose the first since the Word of God does spell out the gospel, but just "living like Jesus" without understanding forgiveness and grace is empty and hopeless. I agree that there are people who read the Word who don't live it. But there are plenty who "live like Jesus" who don't know him or his grace. I would have preferred a third option.

I think most of us were presuming that living like Christ meant also teaching and understanding forgiveness and Grace ;)

 

The question wasn't worded very clearly, but I think the OP's later comments help clear up her reasons and what she is looking for. :)

[susankenny]

Yes, the Bible is necessary in a Christian's life. Can you be decent without it? Yes. Can you be a good person in the eye's of man without even striving to walk like Christ? Yes. Clearly many religions have very peaceful, generous, and caring followers.

 

But I firmly believe that reading AND studying the Bible is important to the walk of a Christian. Regardless if someone "knows" it and still lives a terrible life, or if someone is very decent and doesn't know it at all is rather irrelevant in my opinion. That has to do with application, and knowledge without application is like salt without flavor. The Bible teaches about this many times. Whether or not Christians should own and apply the Bible to their lives, however, is an emphatic yes from me. Unless you cannot read, live in a closed country, or are in a rare circumstance that keeps you from owning a bible and reading it, I just can't comprehend why a Christian would not only refuse to open it, but also attempt to justify that behavior with contempt.

 

Susan

[twoforjoy]

Christians throughout most of history and in much of the world still are not able to read the Bible daily (either because they lack their own copy or can't read or both). I'd be very hesitant to say that, without reading the Bible, one can't be a Christian or live in a Christ-like way. Certainly many people throughout history have been devoted Christians living Christ-like lives without ever reading the Bible for themselves.

[Gailmegan]

I think most of us were presuming that living like Christ meant also teaching and understanding forgiveness and Grace ;)

 

The question wasn't worded very clearly, but I think the OP's later comments help clear up her reasons and what she is looking for. :)

 

I missed her reply #33 when I was skimming. Now I see that she did clarify that with option #2 she included the relationship with Jesus. I see dangers with either approach. I don't like programs like Awana either. Programs don't make us more godly. forced Bible reading without context and for rewards isn't productive either. We grow in our relationship with God through interactions with the Church (universal) - including teaching and modeling and encouraging one another, through personal prayer, and through sacraments. But I do believe the Holy Spirit works through the Word of God in a special way as well. Psalm 119, John 1 and Hebrews 4:13 make that very clear. How's that for a nice circular reasoning of using the Bible to prove the need for the Bible? ;) I'm not just Reformed, I'm VanTillian.

[Jean in Newcastle]

Christians throughout most of history and in much of the world still are not able to read the Bible daily (either because they lack their own copy or can't read or both). I'd be very hesitant to say that, without reading the Bible, one can't be a Christian or live in a Christ-like way. Certainly many people throughout history have been devoted Christians living Christ-like lives without ever reading the Bible for themselves.

 

But those Christians have been taught God's Word to some degree. Throughout history there have been people who could read God's word and transmit that message to others whether it was through the wonderful art in the cathedrals, pageants, rituals which taught a story, pictures, sermons. . . Not being able to read doesn't necessitate not being without God's Word. There has been some form a canon since Moses and even before hand there was an oral tradition which I believe that God preserved.

[mommaduck]

I missed her reply #33 when I was skimming. Now I see that she did clarify that with option #2 she included the relationship with Jesus. I see dangers with either approach. I don't like programs like Awana either. Programs don't make us more godly. forced Bible reading without context and for rewards isn't productive either. We grow in our relationship with God through interactions with the Church (universal) - including teaching and modeling and encouraging one another, through personal prayer, and through sacraments. But I do believe the Holy Spirit works through the Word of God in a special way as well. Psalm 119, John 1 and Hebrews 4:13 make that very clear. How's that for a nice circular reasoning of using the Bible to prove the need for the Bible? ;) I'm not just Reformed, I'm VanTillian.

I agree.

[susankenny]

But those Christians have been taught God's Word to some degree. Throughout history there have been people who could read God's word and transmit that message to others whether it was through the wonderful art in the cathedrals, pageants, rituals which taught a story, pictures, sermons. . . Not being able to read doesn't necessitate not being without God's Word. There has been some form a canon since Moses and even before hand there was an oral tradition which I believe that God preserved.

 

 

:iagree:

 

 

The original poster is clearly talking about the United States of America where bibles are free at any church (and just to cover myself - let's assume the OP and all others I'm referring to have the ability to read it).

 

I understand kids attend AWANA and it becomes about something twisted sometimes. But there is a huge wide open space between kids memorizing scripture for trinkets & saying the bible isn't an important part of a Christian's walk.

 

So keeping it in context, why would a devout Christian say the Bible is irrelevant to walking like Christ did?

 

That seems to be a recurring theme in this thread, that the Bible really isn't of uber importance here. I just disagree.:confused:

 

Susan

[Patches]

Both! Living like Jesus can be the result of Bible reading.

[Jean in Newcastle]

:iagree:

 

 

The original poster is clearly talking about the United States of America where bibles are free at any church (and just to cover myself - let's assume the OP and all others I'm referring to have the ability to read it).

 

I understand kids attend AWANA and it becomes about something twisted sometimes. But there is a huge wide open space between kids memorizing scripture for trinkets & saying the bible isn't an important part of a Christian's walk.

 

So keeping it in context, why would a devout Christian say the Bible is irrelevant to walking like Christ did?

 

That seems to be a recurring theme in this thread, that the Bible really isn't of uber importance here. I just disagree.:confused:

 

Susan

 

:iagree: :)

[mommyrooch]

:iagree:

 

 

The original poster is clearly talking about the United States of America where bibles are free at any church (and just to cover myself - let's assume the OP and all others I'm referring to have the ability to read it).

 

I understand kids attend AWANA and it becomes about something twisted sometimes. But there is a huge wide open space between kids memorizing scripture for trinkets & saying the bible isn't an important part of a Christian's walk.

 

So keeping it in context, why would a devout Christian say the Bible is irrelevant to walking like Christ did?

 

That seems to be a recurring theme in this thread, that the Bible really isn't of uber importance here. I just disagree.:confused:

 

Susan

 

I just don't see this. I even read back through each and every post and I certainly didin't see anyone saying that the Bible is "irrelevant to walking like Christ did." Virtually every post I read stressed that the poster felt the Bible was VERY important. Why do you think that it's a recurring theme in the thread that the Bible isn't of uber importance? :confused: I personally didn't get that feel at all when I re-read through the thread.

 

I did see where many honestly answered the OP's original question by stating that they thought living a life like Christ did was "more" important. Even then though, most clarified that opinion by saying they felt the Bible was very important. They just stated that "if" they had to choose, (not that they were choosing) they would choose the second option. Heck, I even got the feeling that most didn't like the choice because they did feel the Bible was so important. They were just honestly answering the question that "if" they had too choose, what would they choose. That was the original question wasn't it?

Edited October 18, 2011 by mommyrooch

[simka2]

I just don't see this. I even read back through each and every post and I certainly didin't see anyone saying that the Bible is "irrelevant to walking like Christ did." Virtually every post I read stressed that the poster felt the Bible was VERY important. Why do you think that it's a recurring theme in the thread that the Bible isn't of uber importance? :confused: I personally didn't get that feel at all when I re-read through the thread.

 

I did however see where many honestly answered the question by stating that they thought living a life like Christ did was "more" important. Even then though most clarified that by saying they felt the Bible was very important. They just stated that "if" they had to choose they would choose the second option. That was the original question wasn't it?

This! ;)

[Chris in VA]

You need an "other."

 

Teach them to love Jesus. Then they will read the bible AND live like him. :D

[Greta]

I just can't comprehend why a Christian would not only refuse to open it, but also attempt to justify that behavior with contempt.

 

Wow, you actually know Christians who do that? :001_huh: I can't imagine.

 

 

So keeping it in context, why would a devout Christian say the Bible is irrelevant to walking like Christ did?

 

That seems to be a recurring theme in this thread, that the Bible really isn't of uber importance here. I just disagree.:confused:

 

 

I didn't get that impression from this thread at all, and don't remember anyone saying that the Bible is irrelevant. Just to explain for myself, since I'm one of the people who chose the second option, please understand what the phrase "live like Jesus" means to me.

 

How did Christ live? Without sin! He loved and honored God with His whole heart, soul, and mind, and He loved His fellow man selflessly, just as He commanded us to do. He preached the good news of the kingdom everywhere He went. He prayed. He fasted. He lived a perfect, holy, sinless life.

 

I think perhaps the communication breakdown here is that you might be assuming that those who are advocating "live like Jesus" are only talking about the good moral behavior part and discarding the rest. I assure you, we're not! Living like Jesus means striving, though we fall terribly, tragically short, to avoid sin and to bring the good news of the kingdom into the world, both through good moral actions AND through preaching and ministry. The Bible is a very important part of that. My priest has said that we come to liturgy on Sunday to hear the gospel so that we know what to do, and to partake of the Eucharist so that we have the strength to do it. I believe that both of these things are critical to the Christian faith, and I'm not trying to minimize either one, or weigh one against the other. I can't imagine my faith without these, and without other things including but not limited to prayer, baptism, confession, fellowship with other Christians, the list could go on. All of these things provide critical help in our attempts to be more like Christ, more God-honoring, less sinful, more loving.

 

I think perhaps we agree more than it might seem at first? :001_smile:

[Mommyfaithe]

I chose to live like Jesus, but Bible reading is so important in a believer's life. That said, I know a lot of people who frequently read the Bible who have no interest in living the life Jesus calls us to. That's why I chose what I did.

 

:iagree: me too.

[FiveOaksAcademy]

I'm with Impish. It can't be an either/or. The only way we can know how Jesus lived is to read about Him in the Bible.

 

For the argument about people from the past and present that were/are illterate, I believe that to whom much is given, much will be required. If you are unable to read, I believe God meets you there. If you are able to read, I believe He will hold you to a higher standard and that standard would be that you read His Word.

 

There is a lot to walking with Christ: Reading His Word, walking in His Spirit, praying, repentance, being humble (soooo much would be solved we were all humble like Christ). I don't think there would be a way to narrow it down to just reading the scriptures OR living like Jesus. Christ spent a lot of His very own Words quoting the Old Testament, so that shows strongly how He feels about The Word. He told people to follow Him, but the only way that would be possible was to know His Word AND have His Spirit.