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I have read/heard some people say that they do not join HSLDA because they disagree with their political stance on some other topics. Can anyone give me more info? Does HSLDA use their funds to support other things besides homeschooling? Like what?

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Whether or not I agree with the politics of a group I join for something apolitical, I am not happy they are using my money for lobbying.

 

"Here, we offer this service" then "and we'll take your payment and argue for A, B, and C". What if they choose D next, and I don't want to support D?

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They lobby against gay marriage, among other things - not very actively, but they certainly advocate on their website and encourage action. I don't mind strange bedfellows, and I can at least see that the parental rights amendment has to do with homeschooling, but some of the stuff is absurdly unconnected. Regardless of how you feel about gay marriage, passing it or not is simply not going to effect your homeschooling rights. Come on.

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OK, I read some of the links. They lost my support by being homophobes. Seriously, what does that even have to do with homeschooling?

 

Their justification is that the right to homeschool is dependent on gay people not being allowed to get married.

 

No, seriously:

Parental rights are a recognized constitutional right despite the fact that they are not explicitly stated in the Constitution. It is a fair question to ask: if they are implied rights rather than explicit rights, what is the source of parental rights?

Here is what the Supreme Court said in 2000 in the case of Troxel v. Granville:

"Our jurisprudence historically has reflected Western civilization concepts of the family as a unit with broad parental authority over minor children. Our cases have consistently followed that course."

Thus, you can see that parental rights are based on "western civilization concepts of the family."

 

When those concepts are no longer the legal definition of the family in this nation, then the foundation upon which parental rights are based is completely removed. [...]

 

Therefore, HSLDA will continue to fight against same-sex marriage. Same-sex marriage attacks the traditions of the family in western civilization. This is an attack on parental rights. This is a battle the homeschooling movement cannot afford to lose.

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Their proposed Parent's Rights Amendment is a quick one that comes to mind.

Why do you call it "their" amendment? Why would you be opposed to it? Or why do you think HSLDA shouldn't support it? Don't you think that parental rights affects homeschooling?

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I have nothing but the highest regard for HSLDA.

 

If you believe that same-s*x "marriage" makes sense, don't you think that HSLDA has the right to believe it does not? And how does that make HSLDA "homophobes"?

 

 

You are confusing an matter of individual rights with the rights/obligations of an organization. HSLDA is an organization that posits itself as a support for homeschooling and homeschoolers. A stance on issues unrelated to homeschooling or homeschoolers is not relevant to their position as an organization. A PERSON has a right to believe whatever s/he wants. An ORGANIZATION is obligated to stick to its mandates. Having hidden agendas and over-reaching the bounds of its mandate is never acceptable in an organization.

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I have nothing but the highest regard for HSLDA.

 

If you believe that same-s*x "marriage" makes sense, don't you think that HSLDA has the right to believe it does not? And how does that make HSLDA "homophobes"?

 

HSLDA can support whatever it wants. And people can certainly disagree with it and spread the word about why.

 

And if they openly campaign against gays having the rights to do things many gay people want to do like get "married" (nice quotes btw) then how can that possibly be defined as anything but homophobic.

 

From wikipedia.

 

Homophobia is a term used to refer to a range of negative attitudes and feelings towards lesbian, gay and in some cases bisexual, transgender people and behavior, although these are usually covered under other terms such as biphobia and transphobia. Definitions refer to irrational fear, with the implication of antipathy, contempt, prejudice, and aversion.[1][2][3] The term "homophobia" is observable in critical and hostile behavior such as discrimination[1][2] and violence on the basis of a perceived homosexual or in some cases any non-heterosexual orientation.
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You are confusing an matter of individual rights with the rights/obligations of an organization. HSLDA is an organization that posits itself as a support for homeschooling and homeschoolers. A stance on issues unrelated to homeschooling or homeschoolers is not relevant to their position as an organization. A PERSON has a right to believe whatever s/he wants. An ORGANIZATION is obligated to stick to its mandates. Having hidden agendas and over-reaching the bounds of its mandate is never acceptable in an organization.

 

 

:iagree:

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You are confusing an matter of individual rights with the rights/obligations of an organization. HSLDA is an organization that posits itself as a support for homeschooling and homeschoolers. A stance on issues unrelated to homeschooling or homeschoolers is not relevant to their position as an organization. A PERSON has a right to believe whatever s/he wants. An ORGANIZATION is obligated to stick to its mandates. Having hidden agendas and over-reaching the bounds of its mandate is never acceptable in an organization.

Parental rights affects homeschooling.

 

HSLDA doesn't have a "hidden" agenda.

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Parental rights affects homeschooling.

 

HSLDA doesn't have a "hidden" agenda.

 

Ellie, your previous post, to which I responded, cited the issue of same-sex marriage, not the parental rights amendment. HSLDA's opposition to same-sex marriage is a hidden agenda. It has nothing whatsoever to do with homeschooling, and nothing whatsoever to do with issues surrounding homeschooling rights. It has only to do with promoting an agenda that is held by individuals within the organization, yet bears no relation to HSLDAs stated purpose.

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I don't see how a same-sex couple marrying is going to affect homeschooling legislation. Is there something that makes a gay mother or father less capable of educating children than his/her straight counterpart?

 

According to hslda, it is damaging to the traditional idea of family, and therefore homeschooling. Any single or divorced parents should take note.

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According to hslda, it is damaging to the traditional idea of family, and therefore homeschooling. Any single or divorced parents should take note.

 

Yeah. That's frightening to me. I don't think a homeschooling advocacy group should be interested in telling me how my family must be structured to be valid. This is an issue I put firmly between myself & God.

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HSLDA doesn't have a "hidden" agenda.

 

Directly from their website....

 

"Home School Legal Defense Association is a nonprofit advocacy organization established to defend and advance the constitutional right of parents to direct the education of their children and to protect family freedoms. Through annual memberships, HSLDA is tens of thousands of families united in service together, providing a strong voice when and where needed."

 

I guess it just depends if you are their correct type of parent. If I were a GLBT parent, I would be very upset because they clearly state they are advocates for homeschooling parents, yet they go behind their backs and lobby against them.

 

Sounds like a hidden agenda to me. :glare:

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I think there would be less controversy and strife if HSLDA just went ahead and said, "We represent conservative Christian homeschoolers." But they don't. They say that they represent homeschoolers.

 

If they said, from the outset, "We collect money to lobby for a traditional view of the family, which includes the parental right to homeschool," well, I wouldn't agree with their beliefs, but I'd concede their right to do so. But instead they say that they are collecting money to protect homeschooling freedoms, and then they offer up an utterly specious argument for why they are entitled to spend that money on another of their pet causes and justify it as "protecting homeschooling."

 

You know what I think would really threaten homeschooling freedoms? Allowing homeschooling to be identified as a narrow partisan cause, associated with one political party and opposed to the other. I live in the bluest of Blue States. It does not make me feel more secure in my homeschooling rights to have homeschooling presented as all one piece with a conservative Republican, fundamentalist Christian agenda.

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I think there would be less controversy and strife if HSLDA just went ahead and said, "We represent conservative Christian homeschoolers." But they don't. They say that they represent homeschoolers.

 

If they said, from the outset, "We collect money to lobby for a traditional view of the family, which includes the parental right to homeschool," well, I wouldn't agree with their beliefs, but I'd concede their right to do so. But instead they say that they are collecting money to protect homeschooling freedoms, and then they offer up an utterly specious argument for why they are entitled to spend that money on another of their pet causes and justify it as "protecting homeschooling."

 

You know what I think would really threaten homeschooling freedoms? Allowing homeschooling to be identified as a narrow partisan cause, associated with one political party and opposed to the other. I live in the bluest of Blue States. It does not make me feel more secure in my homeschooling rights to have homeschooling presented as all one piece with a conservative Republican, fundamentalist Christian agenda.

 

I agree and well said! :hurray:

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I think there would be less controversy and strife if HSLDA just went ahead and said, "We represent conservative Christian homeschoolers." But they don't. They say that they represent homeschoolers.

 

If they said, from the outset, "We collect money to lobby for a traditional view of the family, which includes the parental right to homeschool," well, I wouldn't agree with their beliefs, but I'd concede their right to do so. But instead they say that they are collecting money to protect homeschooling freedoms, and then they offer up an utterly specious argument for why they are entitled to spend that money on another of their pet causes and justify it as "protecting homeschooling."

 

You know what I think would really threaten homeschooling freedoms? Allowing homeschooling to be identified as a narrow partisan cause, associated with one political party and opposed to the other. I live in the bluest of Blue States. It does not make me feel more secure in my homeschooling rights to have homeschooling presented as all one piece with a conservative Republican, fundamentalist Christian agenda.

 

:iagree:

HSLDA has the right to lobby for whatever it wants; it is a private organization.

 

However, if politicians see homeschooling as only a "red" issue, then there is no pressure on "blues" to support it. Which is fine if the reds are in power but not so much when the blues are. Better to showcase it as an issue that affects/involves a wide variety of families, from a broad spectrum of political/religious/academic/racial/cultural/economic/etc. viewpoints/groups.

 

Organizations that "mix causes" are less effective at advocating for their main cause, because the side issues can turn off both potential members/supporters and politicians who might otherwise be friendly. IMHO, focused, single-issue organizations are more effective in advocating for their primary constituency/cause.

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:iagree:

HSLDA has the right to lobby for whatever it wants; it is a private organization.

 

However, if politicians see homeschooling as only a "red" issue, then there is no pressure on "blues" to support it. Which is fine if the reds are in power but not so much when the blues are. Better to showcase it as an issue that affects/involves a wide variety of families, from a broad spectrum of political/religious/academic/racial/cultural/economic/etc. viewpoints/groups.

 

Organizations that "mix causes" are less effective at advocating for their main cause, because the side issues can turn off both potential members/supporters and politicians who might otherwise be friendly. IMHO, focused, single-issue organizations are more effective in advocating for their primary constituency/cause.

 

:iagree:

 

Yes.

 

I can't tell you how many times I heard (when living in the states) "but what if I need a LAWYER?"

 

Well, then GET one! HSLDA specifically states that by joining them, they are under no obligation to help a homeschooling family with law issues, and that they absolutely will not intervene in issues regarding custody (but, strangely, will do so in issues with grandparents :confused:).

 

There is a line in the movie Grosse Pointe Blank where the assassin Marty says "If I show up at your door, chances are you did something to bring me there." Switzerland is in 12th grade, and has been HSd since 5th - in 2 countries. In all of that time, I've known of ONE person who has had a social worker show up at her door. And she was a piece. of. work. Everyone in our group who met her (the two times she showed up) could tell her children were terrified of her.

 

Now, I completely realize that one anecdotal story doesn't make a statistical analysis - but honestly - how many people do you know - KNOW - not heard of - KNOW - that have had a social worker show up at their door? What led up to that? And was it something HSLDA would help with?

 

I've never joined them, nor will I (there was a competing, non-lobbying org in GA called GHEA that I viewed as a better fit), but even when I return to the states, HSLDA has done p!ssed me off. They had no place meddling in international affairs by intervening with the status of that German family. American civil rights stop at the borders of the USA - they don't extend simply because people "want them to". Especially when a nation has had a law on their books since 1871 and offers numerous alternatives. If that family was THAT set on HSing, they could have either chosen to emigrate to France (it's legal there) or hold a residential address there and HS in Germany - lots of HS families do that. It was plainly and simply a political power play, and although that family "won", it set things back for the rest of German families. All because HSLDA couldn't keep their noses out of it.

 

 

a

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Long before I found this site, I knew that HSLDA was coming from a conservative christian viewpoint and supported things other than just homeschooling. I didn't go digging around to find that, I just read stuff on their website. I don't really think they were hiding anything. I found HSLDA before they changed their website and maybe their old website made it more clear.

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My issue was always that they do not support all homeschoolers. They would support me now but as an unschooler they would not have and have actively supported legislation that made/would have made unschooling much more difficult for unschooling families.

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Why do you call it "their" amendment? Why would you be opposed to it? Or why do you think HSLDA shouldn't support it? Don't you think that parental rights affects homeschooling?

 

I'm opposed to the parental rights amendment. Parents already have rights, including the right to homeschool. A parental rights amendment, rather than securing parents any necessary rights they don't have, would simply strip away some of the few protections that children currently have.

 

I don't care if the HSLDA supports it, or supports a constitutional amendment barring same-sex couples from being granted partnership rights, but I think they're wrong and I wouldn't join.

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You know what I think would really threaten homeschooling freedoms? Allowing homeschooling to be identified as a narrow partisan cause, associated with one political party and opposed to the other. I live in the bluest of Blue States. It does not make me feel more secure in my homeschooling rights to have homeschooling presented as all one piece with a conservative Republican, fundamentalist Christian agenda.

 

:iagree:

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I did quite a bit of reading on this last night, articles about HSLDA and the HSLDA site itself.

 

I have nothing but the highest regard for HSLDA.

 

If you believe that same-s*x "marriage" makes sense, don't you think that HSLDA has the right to believe it does not? And how does that make HSLDA "homophobes"?

 

I do think that the leaders of HSLDA have the right to think whatever they want about same-sex marriage or any other issue, for that matter. But they present themselves as a *homeschooling* rights organization, and I cannot (no matter how they try to defend it) make myself believe that my homeschool is threatened by a nontraditional family. What if someday HSLDA decides that a mother who works outside the home is nontraditional? Then I would be screwed.

 

By definition, having negative feelings about same-sex marriage makes one a homophobe. I personally don't see how a same-sex "marriage" is any different than your "marriage" or my "marriage." But that is neither here nor there. The main issue is that they advertise themselves as a homeschooling organization when they obviously have a much deeper agenda.

 

You are confusing an matter of individual rights with the rights/obligations of an organization. HSLDA is an organization that posits itself as a support for homeschooling and homeschoolers. A stance on issues unrelated to homeschooling or homeschoolers is not relevant to their position as an organization. A PERSON has a right to believe whatever s/he wants. An ORGANIZATION is obligated to stick to its mandates. Having hidden agendas and over-reaching the bounds of its mandate is never acceptable in an organization.

 

:iagree:

According to hslda, it is damaging to the traditional idea of family, and therefore homeschooling. Any single or divorced parents should take note.

 

:iagree: Hard telling who they will decide to target next.

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:iagree:

 

Yes.

 

I can't tell you how many times I heard (when living in the states) "but what if I need a LAWYER?"

 

Well, then GET one! HSLDA specifically states that by joining them, they are under no obligation to help a homeschooling family with law issues, and that they absolutely will not intervene in issues regarding custody (but, strangely, will do so in issues with grandparents :confused:).

 

There is a line in the movie Grosse Pointe Blank where the assassin Marty says "If I show up at your door, chances are you did something to bring me there." Switzerland is in 12th grade, and has been HSd since 5th - in 2 countries. In all of that time, I've known of ONE person who has had a social worker show up at her door. And she was a piece. of. work. Everyone in our group who met her (the two times she showed up) could tell her children were terrified of her.

 

Now, I completely realize that one anecdotal story doesn't make a statistical analysis - but honestly - how many people do you know - KNOW - not heard of - KNOW - that have had a social worker show up at their door? What led up to that? And was it something HSLDA would help with?

 

 

a

 

Ok, well, my sister had a social worker show up at her door because my nephew has a weird thing on his arm.... It's kind of like a mole growing under the skin is how the dr. described it. He's schedule for surgery. It was kind of ridiculous. But yeah, that's the only time I've known someone to have a social worker show up and it had nothing to do with homeschooling. My nephew is four and isn't and won't be homeschooled. :)

 

I think back when homeschooling was more weird and less mainstream, and perhaps not officially legal, this was a much more valid fear. These days, most HSLDA-helped-me stories that I've heard involved pushy school districts. HSLDA faxes the school and they back off. Big dramatic thing. ;)

 

Even when I was a kid and a neighbor reported us for homeschooling, they sent my parents a form asking them to verify that we were, in fact, homeschooling and not truant. No social worker on the doorstep demanding entrance into the house and asking pushy questions. Of course, we lived in TX where homeschooling laws are almost non-existent so accusing someone of homeschooling is kind of... "so what?" :)

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HSLDA does take up issues that are peripheral to homeschooling, but those issues could be seen as possible infringements on homeschooling. Not all homeschoolers are liberals. Not all homeschoolers are conservatives. But there are homeschoolers who have similar views to that of HSLDA and support them. No single organization is going to please everybody. If they didn't take up some of these peripheral issues, there would be those who would accuse them of not going far enough in defense of the rights of homeschoolers.

 

If the organization fits you and your viewpoints, support it. If not, find another that is a better fit or just don't worry about it. We are members of HSLDA in part because we have a crazy family member who might cause a problem, but we also feel good about supporting the causes HSLDA supports. We are glad that there is an organization like HSLDA that takes on these issues that are important to us. We don't think that the other side in some of these issues should be the only side allowed to voice its point of view. We also don't expect everyone to want to join HSLDA. It's a free country, people.

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:iagree:

HSLDA has the right to lobby for whatever it wants; it is a private organization.

 

However, if politicians see homeschooling as only a "red" issue, then there is no pressure on "blues" to support it. Which is fine if the reds are in power but not so much when the blues are. Better to showcase it as an issue that affects/involves a wide variety of families, from a broad spectrum of political/religious/academic/racial/cultural/economic/etc. viewpoints/groups.

 

 

 

:iagree::iagree:

 

The problem is that I get the impression many Christian homeschooling leaders would rather see homeschooling stay among very conservative Christians. They would rather not see a wide variety of families homeschooling.

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HSLDA does take up issues that are peripheral to homeschooling, but those issues could be seen as possible infringements on homeschooling.

 

How is granting marriage rights to same-sex couples a possible infringement on homeschooling? I mean that in all seriousness. What genuine risk does that pose to the rights of homeschoolers? Have the rights of homeschoolers been curtailed or challenged or taken away in states where civil unions and same-sex marriage are legal, since they've become legal?

 

The way I see it, rights are not a zero-sum game. If people really want their right to homeschool protected, even if it became a very unpopular thing, then they should support the rights of other minority groups. I'm assuming most homeschoolers wouldn't want GLBT people to say, "Those homeschoolers are all indoctrinating their kids to think homosexuality is an abomination. They pose a threat to us, so let's try to pass a constitutional amendment to make homeschooling illegal." Our rights and freedoms aren't threatened by the rights and freedoms of others, but tied up with and enhanced by them.

 

That said, people are free to do what they want. But I think that championing conservative causes that restrict the freedoms of others is absolutely wrong, both morally and practically if we're interested in freedom for homeschoolers in the long-term.

Edited by twoforjoy
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If not, find another that is a better fit or just don't worry about it.

 

Someone linked an old thread about this. It would be a good idea for you to read it, if you are truly interested in why people actively fight against hslda.

 

We don't think that the other side in some of these issues should be the only side allowed to voice its point of view.

 

HSLDA often shuts out other voices of homeschooling, so I think they would disagree with you on this point.

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I think there would be less controversy and strife if HSLDA just went ahead and said, "We represent conservative Christian homeschoolers." But they don't. They say that they represent homeschoolers.

 

If they said, from the outset, "We collect money to lobby for a traditional view of the family, which includes the parental right to homeschool," well, I wouldn't agree with their beliefs, but I'd concede their right to do so. But instead they say that they are collecting money to protect homeschooling freedoms, and then they offer up an utterly specious argument for why they are entitled to spend that money on another of their pet causes and justify it as "protecting homeschooling."

 

You know what I think would really threaten homeschooling freedoms? Allowing homeschooling to be identified as a narrow partisan cause, associated with one political party and opposed to the other. I live in the bluest of Blue States. It does not make me feel more secure in my homeschooling rights to have homeschooling presented as all one piece with a conservative Republican, fundamentalist Christian agenda.

 

Absolutely.

Bravo-- I couldn't agree more!

 

astrid

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:iagree::iagree:

 

The problem is that I get the impression many Christian homeschooling leaders would rather see homeschooling stay among very conservative Christians. They would rather not see a wide variety of families homeschooling.

 

I agree. It is not a live-and-let-live situation when some people are actively working to curtail the rights of some homeschoolers because they aren't the "right" type.

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HSLDA often shuts out other voices of homeschooling, so I think they would disagree with you on this point.

 

Also, if somebody wants to oppose gay marriage, why look to a homeschooling advocacy group to do that?

 

I'm a member of Amnesty International. I'm not going to be all, "Hey, Amnesty International, how about you do something about poverty?!" That's not what they are there for, and if they began to get involved with all kinds of peripheral issues that many of their members might agree on but that were not central to their purpose, would be divisive (since not everybody who supports AI's mission regarding political prisoners would have the same views on dealing with poverty), and would dilute their energy from their original cause.

 

Now, I don't think this is relevant to the HSLDA, because it never was about protecting the freedoms of all homeschoolers. It's always been a group interested in promoting a very specific conservative agenda and supporting a very narrowly-defined version of homeschooling. As noted, the HSLDA has been instrumental, in some states, in passing legislation that actually creates MORE regulation and makes certain types of homeschooling much harder. So it's not like the HSLDA has strayed from its original mission, as this has always been its mission.

 

But, certainly all homeschoolers don't have to like it and don't have to keep quiet about their problems with the organization.

 

I homeschool in a way that the HSLDA would likely approve of (not in terms of religious content, obviously, but in terms of my teaching style), but I support the right of unschoolers to educate their children as they see fit. I do not support efforts to narrowly define homeschooling. I actually have no problem with a certain level of regulation, and think it could be a good thing, but I do not want to see regulation in place that would privilege one kind of home education over others, or that would make it difficult or impossible to home educate in certain ways.

 

AFAIK, there are some states with homeschooling laws--like Alabama--that make homeschooling secularly extremely difficult (you either have to be under the authority of a church-based "cover school" or be a certified teacher). I am not aware of the HSLDA working to change those regulations.

Edited by twoforjoy
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Someone linked an old thread about this. It would be a good idea for you to read it, if you are truly interested in why people actively fight against hslda.

 

I understand why people actively fight against HSLDA. I'm just saying, not everyone is in that camp.

 

HSLDA often shuts out other voices of homeschooling, so I think they would disagree with you on this point.

 

I have yet to see an issue anywhere in real life where one side thinks how they see something is the way it should be and that other viewpoints are not valid and thus should not be voiced. Democrats would love it if Republicans had to shut up, just as Republicans would like to not have to listen to Democrats. That's what I mean by "it's a free country."

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I have yet to see an issue anywhere in real life where one side thinks how they see something is the way it should be and that other viewpoints are not valid and thus should not be voiced. Democrats would love it if Republicans had to shut up, just as Republicans would like to not have to listen to Democrats. That's what I mean by "it's a free country."

 

I disagree. There are many, many viewpoints I don't want to see legislated or turned into public policy. There are none I think shouldn't be voiced.

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The problem is that I get the impression many Christian homeschooling leaders would rather see homeschooling stay among very conservative Christians. They would rather not see a wide variety of families homeschooling.

 

I don't think that is necessarily so. I think that many Christian homeschoolers homeschool for RELIGIOUS reasons rather than for other reasons such as quality of education or whatever, which may give that impression. This was a recent insight for me when I heard someone speak on reasons for homeschooling, and it revolved around religious reasons and the ideas and attitudes that were taught in public school (vs say, ps kids not being able to read...aka quality of education). We are Christian, but we homeschool because we think we can give my kids a better quality education than they would get in the big machine of public school. I think many secular homeschoolers have similar reasons that have nothing to do with religion.

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I disagree. There are many, many viewpoints I don't want to see legislated or turned into public policy. There are none I think shouldn't be voiced.

 

Whether or not something should be legislated or turned into public policy is an opinion and a viewpoint. Personally, I think the government should stay out of things as little as possible. But some people think government is what we should turn to to "fix" everything. Differing viewpoints...

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