Advice for helping a 7th grade ds mature academically?

[profmom]

1.) How do I help my 7th grade son manage and take more responsibility for his school work?

 

2.) How can I help him think more deeply and be able to discuss, write, and elaborate on those thoughts?

 

 

And...here are the optional details!

 

My oldest (dd-9th grade) is a different personality and is doing well, but I'm needing to work harder with my 7th grade ds to help him...I don't know...mature academically. Comparing the two, ds is more laid back, less detail-oriented, and less of a deep thinker. Here are the issues I'm seeing:

 

 

~ Slow at school work, not finishing the day's work (then spending way too much of his weekend to finish), even though I don't think he has too much.

 

1.) Pre-Algebra

2.) English 1 at TPS--writing, grammar, lit

3.) Apologia General Science with labs & tests

4.) Spanish at JH pace

5.) Beautiful Feet JH history: America and the World, with reading & comprehension questions, but no essays or tests. (Theory: TPS writing keeps him busy writing, and CC history & timeline memory work take the place of history tests --??)

6.) Classical Conversations Foundations only -- several 7th graders are doing another year of memory work, presentations, etc. here (no Challenge Program).

7.) Guitar.

 

Outside activities are youth group & Saturday tennis.

 

 

~ Needs to think more deeply -- has trouble and doesn't want to do the thinking required for the non-objective, why kinds of questions for literature & history. Generally writes as little as possible or just puts something down that doesn't fully answer the question.

 

 

~ Needs to elaborate much more in his writing -- more details and descriptions, etc.

 

 

~ Needs to learn how much effort is required to really learn the material in content subjects.

 

 

How can I work with him to improve in these areas?

 

Here are some things I'm doing/trying to do:

 

1.) Made a planner with his input. I planned some of his subjects and then check (& usually need to give more input on) his planning of 3 subjects' work each week.

 

2.) Talk to him about priorities for the day (but he still often gets distracted with something else).

 

3.) TPS English/Writing class for accountability, teaching, and input on writing. It's still tough for him to elaborate instead of being so concise and bare, but he improved some last year with their Writer's Workshop class.

 

4.) Using science as the subject to work on studying from a text book and learning material well for tests.

 

5.) History discussions -- Ideally, I would have weekly history discussions with him, but, so far, they haven't been happening. He's needed the time for other assignments, and I could always us the time for other homeschooling or tasks. He's handling the volume of history reading well, but a weekly discussion could be very beneficial for helping him to think more deeply, right? Any tips there would be appreciated too!

 

 

If you're still with me, thanks for reading! I'm realizing one key for this child is lots of encouragement from me and less of my getting stressed about his work not getting done and deadlines for outside classes, but the work and deadlines still need to be addressed, along with the other concerns.

 

:confused: :bigear:

Edited October 3, 2011 by profmom

[FloridaLisa]

Profmom,

 

I don't have enough time to write a full response now; I'm on a short break and will try to hop on late to fully reply. Right now, I would say that much of this is typical of a boy as well as a second child. You will *generally* see more A-type personality traits in a first born, and more diligence in study habits in a girl. Generally. That doesn't let our boys or latter-borns off the hook! But it has prompted me to learn how to teach to boys. I would specifically suggest reading many of the good books out there on how boys learn differently from girls. You may find you can tweak some things in your school to better meet him, all the while requiring and expecting the high standard you believe he is capable of.

 

HTH,

Lisa

[In The Great White North]

I would add that, in 7th grade (at 12? 13?) he is not ready to enter the rhetoric stage, whereas your dd in 9th may very well be.

 

My ds in 7th grade wouldn't have been able to meet your expectations, but my dd would have.

[creekland]

I would add that, in 7th grade (at 12? 13?) he is not ready to enter the rhetoric stage, whereas your dd in 9th may very well be.

 

My ds in 7th grade wouldn't have been able to meet your expectations, but my dd would have.

 

:iagree: My youngest started reaching this stage in 9th grade, then "flew" into it quickly. Now, in 10th, it's amazing the depth he can go into (though he still doesn't "like" writing).

 

My older two reached this stage at a younger age, so I naturally expected he would too. Nope. His brain was on its own timetable. I probably pressured him a bit much and I definitely regret it. He could still learn "facts," but the depth of true "learning" came when his brain was ready for it.

[profmom]

I really appreciate your responses! Please help me with what I'm expecting that could be too much -- I definitely want to be realistic, not too much or too little. I was thinking I was only requiring logic-level thinking, but my expectations could be thrown off by thinking of what my dd (who is strong in writing and discussion) was doing at his age. His greatest strength is in music, by the way, and he loves computers and technology.

 

Lisa, I'm definitely interested in the differences in boys and girls and in 1st born and middle. I'm sure it's no help that I'm a 1st born female! I look forward to hearing more when you have a chance.

 

Thanks, everyone!

[Jane in NC]

Here is the thread you need, courtesy of Nan in Mass.

[In The Great White North]

And keep in mind that that thread starts with 8th grade. He's only in 7th.

[HSDCY]

I will follow this thread closely as I have a 7th grader just like that. Thanks for asking this question.

[AK_Mom4]

1.) ~ Slow at school work, not finishing the day's work (then spending way too much of his weekend to finish), even though I don't think he has too much.

~ Needs to think more deeply

~ Needs to elaborate much more in his writing

~ Needs to learn how much effort is required to really learn the material in content subjects.

 

OK - I just quoted your bolded items. Here is how it worked out here:

 

Slow at school work - all three of my teens (2B, 1G) worked at the minimum speed required. If they had something else they wanted to do, then things got done faster. Warning- if the work was too easy, they just didn't get motivated at all.

 

Think more deeply - It's not a problem of "thinking", it's a problem of "expressing" more deeply. Oldest DS was doing this by 16yo or so. Older DD by 14yo. Younger DS15 is JUST NOW getting to the level where he can express IN WRITING more deeply.

 

Elaborate More - words flow out of my DD like water and always have since she started talking. For my sons, it is more like squeezing a sponge to get a drip out. Both DSs still want to write the minimum required (a 1000 word paper is exactly 1000 words, not 1001). Oldest DS was writing more fluidly by his senior year, younger DS - well we are still working on it. Sometimes DS15 acts like it is a sin to use 2 words in place of 1.

 

Effort Required - wow....my kids really didn't get this one until Jr/Sr year. They were consistently underestimating the amount of time an assignment would take. The only thing that saved them was that we required them to START EARLY. Now, DS19 is off at college and doing great with 5-6 hours of homework a night BECAUSE he learned to prioritize and not put things off. DS15 still underestimates everything and I make him double all his homework time estimates....

 

None of my kids were really out of logic stage until late 9th grade. 9th grade (age 14/15) was really a transition year for them in terms of development.

 

All a long way of saying that for 7th grade, I would just concentrate on Organization with him and let the other bolded topics go by the wayside for this year.....

[lisabees]

 

Think more deeply - It's not a problem of "thinking", it's a problem of "expressing" more deeply. Oldest DS was doing this by 16yo or so. Older DD by 14yo. Younger DS15 is JUST NOW getting to the level where he can express IN WRITING more deeply.

 

Elaborate More - words flow out of my DD like water and always have since she started talking. For my sons, it is more like squeezing a sponge to get a drip out. Both DSs still want to write the minimum required (a 1000 word paper is exactly 1000 words, not 1001). Oldest DS was writing more fluidly by his senior year, younger DS - well we are still working on it. Sometimes DS15 acts like it is a sin to use 2 words in place of 1.

 

Effort Required - wow....my kids really didn't get this one until Jr/Sr year. They were consistently underestimating the amount of time an assignment would take. The only thing that saved them was that we required them to START EARLY. Now, DS19 is off at college and doing great with 5-6 hours of homework a night BECAUSE he learned to prioritize and not put things off. DS15 still underestimates everything and I make him double all his homework time estimates....

 

None of my kids were really out of logic stage until late 9th grade. 9th grade (age 14/15) was really a transition year for them in terms of development.

 

Thank you for this! Very comforting indeed.

 

My dyslexic 9th grader is just starting to come around. I have actually been feeling hopeful about his capabilities this year. Thanks for the reassurance that this may indeed be the case!

[Nscribe]

Remember how when they were 6 months, then a year, then 18 months and the changes were incredible and very visible/tangible? I often try to remind myself that at these middle school ages they are changing just as significantly although maybe not as visibly or tangibly.

 

I can really see differences between 13, 13 1/2, 14 in kids, but usually more in retrospect than in the moment.

 

One thing I do is try to be aware of how vague a statement like "elaborate" may seem at these stages. When I spot it in a question, I change it to something along the lines of give four examples, or descrbe with three detailed features....something more specific in the request.

 

The other thing I try to do is provide a model/example. Say they have a question asking for comparing/constrasting a republic and a democracy. I would not give the answer but I would illustrate what a comparison of two concepts might look like from another content area.

[Sunshine State Sue]

I would specifically suggest reading many of the good books out there on how boys learn differently from girls.

For example, Michael Gurian's Boys and Girls Learn Differently: a guide for teachers and parents

[creekland]

1.)

 

~ Needs to think more deeply -- has trouble and doesn't want to do the thinking required for the non-objective, why kinds of questions for literature & history. Generally writes as little as possible or just puts something down that doesn't fully answer the question.

 

 

~ Needs to elaborate much more in his writing -- more details and descriptions, etc.

 

 

~ Needs to learn how much effort is required to really learn the material in content subjects.

 

 

:bigear:

 

My experience has been similar to what others have written. The "thinking" involved starts at one level and gradually develops to another. A youngster knows he loves his mama and his dog - maybe his favorite toy. It's not deep (thought-wise) and he can't explain it, but he'll cry if any are lost. A young teen knows there is more to love, but can't really explain it as it isn't really clear in his mind either. He just knows there's more. Ask him to explain "love" and he will write something simple to the effect of "liking something a lot." What more is there to write? An older teen and/or adult can write a full length paper - some even write books - on love delving into various meanings of the word or deeply into one meaning. There can be a lot on their minds at that point and one can really have a deep discussion. Most 7th grade boys just aren't "there" yet, but it will likely come.

 

For 7th grade writings I'd still be expecting "the facts" without much personal thought or delving into deeper concepts. To get them to write more facts, one does have to be a bit "exact" in the question - then train them to read the whole thing. However, reading the whole thing and then expecting "deeper" will only leave them exasperated as they can't put those deeper things into words and sentences just yet. They "might" be able to have a discussion with you. If so, great! Have that discussion and get their brain working deeper. Once that is "common" (can do it easily) ask them to put what they said in the discussion into an essay.

 

As to effort, that comes much later for most and almost needs to come from an outside source IME. I've been that outside source for other peoples' kids, but needed an outside source (or more) for two of my own. Visiting colleges really helped oldest. Youngest happened to be with me in the mall when I came across a former student selling "stuff" at one of the center kiosks. He pulled me aside and told me how he was working to change his life. He'd enrolled in cc. He now had a plan. AND, he wished he had listened to me back in high school so he could have done it "right" the first time instead of skating by. Then he turned to youngest and told him directly to "Listen to your mom and work hard in high school. Don't waste those years or you'll end up like me in a "basic" apartment working two jobs to pay for it and cc and not having a life. It's much easier to learn things in high school, then move on from there."

 

Honestly? I couldn't have scripted it better if I'd tried. Youngest was in 9th grade at that time. He's also been inspired every time we've visited a college and he's gotten to speak to a couple of profs in his field which has helped too. But in 7th grade? Visiting colleges then (with oldest brother) didn't really inspire him at all. It was all too far away and too "over his head."

 

As they grow, they develop.

[Nan in Mass]

Mine definately weren't there yet at that age. They definately weren't involved with how to try to get a set amount of work done in the course of the year.

 

I tried to give them work to do over the weekend, coax them to write down what they had been assigned, and then ask them, frequently - sigh, "What is your plan for getting your work done this weekend? We are doing blank. You will have to plan around that." Then I would try to help them stick to their plan.

 

I nagged at them to keep track of their schoolwork, putting their books back when they finished a subject, filing their old papers in their notebooks.

 

I tried to show them how to make and manage flashcards.

 

We should have worked on TWTM fundamental skills more. Those lead to being able to efficiently extract the knowledge out of a textbook and memorize it and restate it when answering the questions.

 

We worked on writing using Writing Strands, which gives formulas for things like book reports and organizing a bunch of information into an essay. I wrote out things like who, what, where, when, why, and how on index cards and tried to get my sons to include all that information when they wrote. Writing Strands spent a considerable amount of time on getting them to elaborate and write more volume. Eventually I taught them to type and showed them how to use a word processor. Rewriting was very important. We would discuss what they could add to their writing and then they would rewrite to include that information. I had to watch carefully or they dropped other information when they rewrote. I spent years - 7th grade through 10th grade - working on getting them to organize their writing. Powerful Paragraphs helped with that.

 

The only way I found to get them to discuss and think more deeply was to read the books aloud together and then go through TWTM questions for either the logic stage or the rhetoric stage (TWEM). It is still true. I just am not enough of a teacher to be able to have a discussion and guide my students into thinking more deeply some time after we both have read the material to ourselves. I have utterly failed at that. Sigh. This is true of every subject. If, however, we read the book together, as we read I can think of questions that force my sons to think more deeply. My 17yo is not exactly happy with this state of affairs but I can't manage to do it any other way. If I tried to have once weekly discussions we would never discuss anything. I also have found that TWTM/TWEM has nice general questions that encourage discussion and elaboration. For some reason, when you ask my sons questions about a specific book, you get one word answers. At one point on this board, people worked together to come up with a general list of history questions. I think you could also write one for science. It would have questions like, "What else works like this?" "What would happen if you changed something?" "What would the world be like if this did not work like this?" "What does this rely on?" "What relies on this?" ...

 

I tried to have my children read non-text books, preferably the simpler adult ones, in each subject. Those tend to explore the implications of things more deeply, which encourages deeper thinking.

 

I tried to have my children pick their own paper topics and design their own experiments.

 

We had to resort to the Schaffer formula in order to get my youngest to elaborate. (You can google it.) I tried other things, like giving him a list of ways to elaborate, but it didn't work very well.

 

In order to improve the quality of work, I had to make long lists of the requirements for written work and force my son to check the lists off. Often the lists were much longer than the actual assignment. The lists contained things like "Did you put your name on the paper?" and "Did you give three different reasons for this?" I should have done WAY more of this WAY earlier. Ug. This (along with reading aloud together) was probably the single most effective thing I did. It was a dreadful nuisance so I skipped it more often than not, but if I had done more of it, we would have been better off.

 

We have school hours and a schedule for the subjects. I make this up before we begin the year. I would love to just hand my children their books at the beginning of the year and have them plan their own work, but I have been unable to get them to do that. Part of the problem is that our family lives a very intertwined, extremely busy life. If we stayed home more, we might have been more successful.

 

HTH

Nan

[profmom]

Profmom,

 

I don't have enough time to write a full response now; I'm on a short break and will try to hop on late to fully reply. Right now, I would say that much of this is typical of a boy as well as a second child. You will *generally* see more A-type personality traits in a first born, and more diligence in study habits in a girl. Generally. That doesn't let our boys or latter-borns off the hook! But it has prompted me to learn how to teach to boys. I would specifically suggest reading many of the good books out there on how boys learn differently from girls. You may find you can tweak some things in your school to better meet him, all the while requiring and expecting the high standard you believe he is capable of.

 

HTH,

Lisa

 

Thanks, Lisa! Comments like yours about how this is typical for a boy & 2nd born have helped me feel less stress already! I'm interested in reading more about the differences between girls and boys. It's more than just that girls are generally more bookish and can more easily learn from studying a text, and boys want more action and hands-on? (Showing ignorance, I'm sure!)

[profmom]

:iagree: My youngest started reaching this stage in 9th grade, then "flew" into it quickly. Now, in 10th, it's amazing the depth he can go into (though he still doesn't "like" writing).

 

My older two reached this stage at a younger age, so I naturally expected he would too. Nope. His brain was on its own timetable. I probably pressured him a bit much and I definitely regret it. He could still learn "facts," but the depth of true "learning" came when his brain was ready for it.

 

 

I'm re-reading the thread and everyone's advice today. I think I wasn't as clear as I should have been about what I was expecting. It's not that I think he should be a deep thinker already, but that I want to help him go in that direction. In teaching 1st grade again this year, I'm surprised sometimes at how basic the information is, but it's foundational and age/developmentally-appropriate. My older dd is naturally more thoughtful, but it seems like I need to be more deliberate (but still go step-by-step) in working with my ds-7th to help him move in that direction.

 

Creekland, your experience with your ds' progress is reassuring! Did you hold off on logic until you saw more ability in that area, or go ahead to help develop more thinking skills?

 

I appreciate your 2nd post too! I'm feeling more equipped for working with him at this age! Thanks!!

Edited October 7, 2011 by profmom

[profmom]

And keep in mind that that thread starts with 8th grade. He's only in 7th.

 

Thanks, Jane & Great White North! The last time I read that thread, I had my older dd in mind, and it was good to read it with my ds in mind.

[profmom]

 

None of my kids were really out of logic stage until late 9th grade. 9th grade (age 14/15) was really a transition year for them in terms of development.

 

All a long way of saying that for 7th grade, I would just concentrate on Organization with him and let the other bolded topics go by the wayside for this year.....

 

Thanks, AK Mom!

[profmom]

Remember how when they were 6 months, then a year, then 18 months and the changes were incredible and very visible/tangible? I often try to remind myself that at these middle school ages they are changing just as significantly although maybe not as visibly or tangibly.

 

I can really see differences between 13, 13 1/2, 14 in kids, but usually more in retrospect than in the moment.

 

One thing I do is try to be aware of how vague a statement like "elaborate" may seem at these stages. When I spot it in a question, I change it to something along the lines of give four examples, or descrbe with three detailed features....something more specific in the request.

 

The other thing I try to do is provide a model/example. Say they have a question asking for comparing/constrasting a republic and a democracy. I would not give the answer but I would illustrate what a comparison of two concepts might look like from another content area.

 

Good advice and reassurance! Thanks!

[profmom]

Then I would try to help them stick to their plan.

 

...

 

We should have worked on TWTM fundamental skills more. Those lead to being able to efficiently extract the knowledge out of a textbook and memorize it and restate it when answering the questions.

 

...

 

I spent years - 7th grade through 10th grade - working on getting them to organize their writing. Powerful Paragraphs helped with that.

 

...

 

The only way I found to get them to discuss and think more deeply was to read the books aloud together and then go through TWTM questions for either the logic stage or the rhetoric stage (TWEM).

 

...

 

We had to resort to the Schaffer formula in order to get my youngest to elaborate. (You can google it.)

 

...

 

In order to improve the quality of work, I had to make long lists of the requirements for written work and force my son to check the lists off. Often the lists were much longer than the actual assignment. The lists contained things like "Did you put your name on the paper?" and "Did you give three different reasons for this?" I should have done WAY more of this WAY earlier. Ug. This (along with reading aloud together) was probably the single most effective thing I did. It was a dreadful nuisance so I skipped it more often than not, but if I had done more of it, we would have been better off.

 

We have school hours and a schedule for the subjects. I make this up before we begin the year. I would love to just hand my children their books at the beginning of the year and have them plan their own work, but I have been unable to get them to do that. Part of the problem is that our family lives a very intertwined, extremely busy life. If we stayed home more, we might have been more successful.

 

HTH

Nan

 

Lots of great advice, Nan! Thanks! I googled Powerful Paragraphs and the Shaffer formula too.

 

About your last paragraph, my ds has resisted the idea of a schedule, especially if it includes times (which I understand -- completing work often doesn't fit well into specific time periods), or even a standard daily routine. What he works on first has had more to do with what is due next for outside classes and/or what he feels most inspired to do next (except that I insist that guitar practice be in the later afternoon). Thankfully, he understands that he can't totally neglect a subject's work while catching up on another -- a lesson learned from trying to do 2 weeks' worth of science over a couple of days. Should I encourage (or, possibly, insist) that we make a basic daily routine or order for school days? Math first, etc.

 

In planning his own work, most things are already allocated into daily portions, but I left a couple in weekly chunks (such as Apologia General Science) and thought he could divide this over the week's days. Should I just scrap that idea?

 

Thanks, everyone! I'm jotting down notes and appreciate your help!

[creekland]

 

Creekland, your experience with your ds' progress is reassuring! Did you hold off on logic until you saw more ability in that area, or go ahead to help develop more thinking skills?

 

I appreciate your 2nd post too! I'm feeling more equipped for working with him at this age! Thanks!!

 

I would love to be able to type that I did everything correct - or even some things correct - in letting my youngest develop his thoughts at his own pace. I did not.

 

As I reflect, my first "problem" is that I teach in high school. I sub for science and math classes (and have for 11 years) so I get to see all levels of students and pretty much all classes. Teachers let me teach these classes - not usually busywork. So, I have high school expectations. While I see "lower level" students, mine are not in that category, so it didn't matter much.

 

My second "problem" is that I pulled all three of my boys out when my oldest hit 9th grade. Hubby and I were certain we could do a better job academically (and stats show we did). Since my oldest was ready for 9th grade, I was ready for him.

 

My third "problem" is that my middle son is way over the top of normal with his academic ability and matured his thinking and writing early (not super early, he was a late bloomer and needed speech/reading assistance up until 2nd grade, but then it clicked and he flew). He tests (IQ-wise) top too. He was more than ready for high school and quite honestly, probably outdid his older brother even at his younger age. BIG NOTE: There is nothing WE did to make him this way. It's him. Pretty much any parent would have enjoyed this guy and done well with teaching him. He doesn't need anyone teaching him most things. He's self-motivated and has ALWAYS been that way (back to speech assistance).

 

Then came youngest... he had just finished 4th grade - started 5th when we pulled him out... and he was behind in math (as per stats). We caught him up and he did ok through 5th and 6th as I wasn't expecting much in the way of higher level thinking.

 

BUT, when he hit 7th and 8th I just assumed he'd follow his brothers' course and be ready. I tried him in Alg 1 in 7th (as they both did) and it didn't work. He wasn't ready for it. I tried to have him writing/reasoning everything from history to English and it didn't work. He wasn't ready for it. He is more lazy naturally than my middle son and I blamed a bit of it on that. It wasn't that. He wasn't ready for it. He grew to hate homeschcooling and became suicidal. THAT woke me up.

 

We went ahead and let him enroll in my high school for 9th grade still thinking he just wasn't going to be as academically able as his brothers... but his brain developed... and now he's right there where he should be (granted, not top of the top like middle son, but he is quite near him).

 

Fortunately, kids are resilient and he's now doing well. I can have the deeper conversations with him (which kind of started in 8th grade) and he can write deeper now too - conveying those feelings. We're working to supplement our "average" high school so that he can get a decent education. I still wish he'd come back home and get a "better" education, but he wants nothing of it - and I don't really blame him. If I had life to do differently, I'd have sure made changes knowing that he would "walk" at his own pace when he was ready. I'd be watching for it and giving him opportunities, but I wouldn't be actively pushing him just because others could do it at his age.

 

He's still not great with time management, but we're working on that (gently).

 

To be a little fair to myself, I liken this to how everyone tells you that your children won't be the same - yet when you bring the babies home you're still surprised when they are different. We "know," but until we experience it, we don't truly "know." Now I "know" the mind can develop at different speeds. I'm just really thankful we didn't push him over the edge. We came far too close.

[Nan in Mass]

Well, if it is working without you having to push for it, I wouldn't scrap it! It is, afterall, where you want to be eventually. I'd just scrap it if it is causing stress. My feeling is that it is relatively rare for boys to be able to manage that on their own in 7th grade without alot of nagging. I saved the nagging for things that mattered more. It sounds like yours is managing scheduling himself much better than mine did. That is great!

 

As far as the deep thinking goes - I tried to make a bridge between spitting back facts and writing a well-organized, well-worded paper that included his own thought and connections that he had made. First I worked on getting mine to give me the facts in an organized way. Then I worked on getting them to provide light commentary on the facts. At the same time, I worked on getting them to be more observant and to verbalize those observations. Then I tried to get them to write those observations down briefly, without including proof or background. Then I tried to get them to write those observations down, and include their proof or examples, and string it all together with commentary. Then I aimed for getting that in a well organized way. Then we worked on wording. By then, they were fixing the wording themselves and I had to say very little about that.

 

Nan

[TechWife]

I would add that, in 7th grade (at 12? 13?) he is not ready to enter the rhetoric stage, whereas your dd in 9th may very well be.

 

:iagree: He is really young to expect that kind of thinking. I hate to say it, but he really sounds very much like a typical boy. I always hate it when people say that kind of thing to me.

 

Someone once described the middle school years for boys as a holding area where their brains can catch up to their bodies. I have found that to be accurate. They aren't boys any more, but neither are they teens or men. It's a hard stage for them to pass through. I pushed my son too hard in the middle school years and it is catching up to me in a variety of ways, none of them good.

Edited October 7, 2011 by TechWife

[profmom]

:iagree: He is really young to expect that kind of thinking. I hate to say it, but he really sounds very much like a typical boy. I always hate it when people say that kind of thing to me.

 

I'm happy to hear it! :)

 

 

Someone once described the middle school years for boys as a holding area where their brains can catch up to their bodies. I have found that to be accurate. They aren't boys any more, but neither are they teens or men. It's a hard stage for them to pass through. I pushed my son too hard in the middle school years and it is catching up to me in a variety of ways, none of them good.

 

That's helpful and reassuring too! Thanks!

[profmom]

My feeling is that it is relatively rare for boys to be able to manage that on their own in 7th grade without alot of nagging. I saved the nagging for things that mattered more.

 

:D Sigh...it's going to be ok! :)

 

As far as the deep thinking goes - I tried to make a bridge between spitting back facts and writing a well-organized, well-worded paper that included his own thought and connections that he had made. First I worked on getting mine to give me the facts in an organized way. Then I worked on getting them to provide light commentary on the facts. At the same time, I worked on getting them to be more observant and to verbalize those observations. Then I tried to get them to write those observations down briefly, without including proof or background. Then I tried to get them to write those observations down, and include their proof or examples, and string it all together with commentary. Then I aimed for getting that in a well organized way. Then we worked on wording. By then, they were fixing the wording themselves and I had to say very little about that.

 

Nan

 

Thanks for breaking down the process like that, Nan! Very helpful!