Renee in NC Posted June 4, 2008 Share Posted June 4, 2008 Another one here - out of need, not desire. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Storm Bay Posted June 4, 2008 Share Posted June 4, 2008 Depends on whether you still have unresolved issues from the preschool years. I've yet to be surprised by a single rebellion I've seen, no matter how astonished the parents themselves were. (That includes the kids with extremely authoritarian parents who seemed to conform to their parents' stifling requirements up until they left home.). Perhaps. However, I think that it's difficult to know for sure how your kids will be until your kids are actually teens. Plan for the best and take it one day at a time, but don't be shocked if they surprise you later. I don't mean this in a negative way, because I've seen wonderful, non-rebellious teens who have had different ideas than their parents. I do know parents who have teens who are doing what the parents have planned for them. But I think it's unwise to predict the outcome with 100 percent certainty based on their first 5-10 years of life (or even longer). FWIW, I do expect my kids to go to university and they know that, but I also know I won't be able to force them once they're of legal age. I've known teens struggling with issues because they have always been obedient children yet struggle with their parents' expectations for them. Like the brilliant young pianist whose parents were insistent that she become a pharmacist. Perhaps you wouldn't be that strict, but it can be a real struggle for some who hate to displease their parents and cause trouble but really have other strong desires. Some end up repressing their real goals, pleasing their parents and not being happy. I've known quite a few people in this category. Without the freedom to open dialogue it can cause a lifetime of disappointment. Out of 5 children in my birth family all have successfully carved out careers--doctor, physicist, businessman, professional screen actor (and making a good living at it) and then me. But one of them only finished grade 11. Shocking, I know, from a family where all were expected to go to college. Who was the dropout? The now successful businessman who has worked his way up to upper management. Shocker, I know. I don't know if he is honest about his education on his resume, but he's very good at what he does. And the actor majored in psychology--he had no acting aspirations until his last year in university. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Heather in Neverland Posted June 4, 2008 Share Posted June 4, 2008 Coming in late here. My main goal for dd is for her to be a keeper at home, helpmeet and all around great homeschool mom to my grandchildren. College is a possibility, but we will encourge Christian college. I am not at all raising her to be career driven/oriented. Then for her sake I hope her husband doesn't cheat on her, leave her or die before she does. I am all for being SAHM but every woman should be prepared to take care of herself if need be. A while ago I read this list called "A Woman Should..." and it is pretty long but here are a few I believe in and will teach my daughter if God blesses me with one: A WOMAN SHOULD HAVE ... enough money to move out and rent a place of her own, even if she never wants to or needs to and know how to live alone even if she doesn't like it... A WOMAN SHOULD HAVE ... something perfect to wear if the employer, or date of her dreams wants to see her in an hour... A WOMAN SHOULD HAVE ..... a set of screwdrivers, a cordless drill, and a black lace bra... A WOMAN SHOULD HAVE .... one friend who always makes her laugh... and one who lets her cry... A WOMAN SHOULD HAVE .... a good piece of furniture not previously owned by anyone else in her family... A WOMAN SHOULD HAVE ... eight matching plates, wine glasses with stems, and a recipe for a meal that will make her guests feel honored... A WOMAN SHOULD KNOW.. . how to fall in love without losing herself.. A WOMAN SHOULD KNOW... how to quit a job, break up with a man, and confront a friend without ruining the friendship... A WOMAN SHOULD KNOW... when to try harder... and WHEN TO WALK AWAY... A WOMAN SHOULD KNOW... that she can't change the length of her calves, the width of her hips, or the nature of her parents.. A WOMAN SHOULD KNOW... that her childhood may not have been perfect...but it's over... A WOMAN SHOULD KNOW.. . whom she can trust, whom she can't, and why she shouldn't take it personally... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kimber Posted June 4, 2008 Share Posted June 4, 2008 In our home, the expectation is college. When I grew up college was a treat. After I graduated, my mother went and so did my uncles and aunts. I think it's more of how it's viewed and expected. In my dh's family his oldest brother's college was paid for, but he didn't want to go. Dbil decided to go to the military instead. When he made this decision he knew he was giving up a paid for college expense. But after he left, he went on to college and paid for it himself. I think if a child enjoys education then there's no reason to think they wont enjoy college. And as for early marriage, I think if my kids got married before hand, although I'd suggest they wait, we'd still pay for it they continued to go. I don't see how the expectations should be different for college than high school. It's just sort of the natural progression. And as a minority, I think it's an absolute necessity. Of course, this is just my opinion. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kimber Posted June 4, 2008 Share Posted June 4, 2008 I think about what kind of woman would I want my sons to marry. And one of the things I want is for my sons and their wives to be "equally yoked". I see couples who aren't and divorce comes up often in their language with me. I don't know what they tell their spouses but it's what they tell me, and it's scary. And it works both ways. Where she is more academically driven or he is more academically driven. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kimber Posted June 4, 2008 Share Posted June 4, 2008 Well, what about Mary and Martha Now as they went on their way, he entered a certain village, where a woman named Martha welcomed him into her home. She had a sister named Mary, who sat at the Lord's feet and listened to what he was saying. But Martha was distracted by her many tasks; so she came to him and asked, "Lord, do you not care that my sister has left me to do all the work by myself? Tell her then to help me." But the Lord answered her, "Martha, Martha, you are worried and distracted by many things; there is need of only one thing. Mary has chosen the better part, which will not be taken away from her" (Luke 10:38-42). Don't know if this meets your standards, but as I see it, Martha was concerned about all of the "womanly household chores" and Mary was concerned about learning at the feet of Christ, the things of the spirit. As a Christian, I try to see all things through Christ colored glasses. And I think math is a product of God's creation. Studying math is studying His handiwork. Studying science is studying His creation. It gives insight into His orderliness. The things of the home are great and need to be attended to, but the things are God are better. And studying your world, knowing your bible and understanding its history, its impact, and its place in the world is better. (This might be a bit of a stretch, huh? :)) Btw, I don't think there is anything wrong with house hold responsibilities and raising kids. I do it, everyday and every night. It's a gift to serve. But I think it's also a gift to learn and institutionalized learning is okay just like learning at home. I would not want to limit my daughter's dreams simply because she's a girl. My concern is that she have a relationship with Christ, not that she is a good wife and a good mom. I don't want my daughter to be defined by the people in her life. I want her defined internally from her knowledge of self and her relationship with God. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Storm Bay Posted June 4, 2008 Share Posted June 4, 2008 As a Christian, I try to see all things through Christ colored glasses. And I think math is a product of God's creation. Studying math is studying His handiwork. Studying science is studying His creation. It gives insight into His orderliness. The things of the home are great and need to be attended to, but the things are God are better. And studying your world, knowing your bible and understanding its history, its impact, and its place in the world is better.. Yes. The verse in Timothy that says "Let the woman learn in silence and subjection" does NOT mean she should do nothing with it. Learning in silence and subjection was cultural and how the men were to learn. But women hadn't been allowed to learn with the men--Paul was telling them to let the women learn. And, as I've mentioned before, there was Lydia--the first European convert. A woman was the first European convert. A business woman, probably a widow, who was supporting her household. One might argue that she was an unbeliever, but she wasn't--she was already devout, just didn't know about the Messiah yet. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wheezie Posted June 4, 2008 Share Posted June 4, 2008 Another vote for BOTH! :D I have a college degree, and I'm thankful I have a *great* PT job I could easily switch to FT should anything happen to dh. My "keeper at home" skills were sadly lacking when dh and I got married, but have progressively gotten better. I plan to teach my kids (ds included) the ins and outs of keeping a house running, but pray they will want to go to college. Maybe not a 4 yr school, but even community college would be a start. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
michaeljenn Posted June 4, 2008 Share Posted June 4, 2008 Heather in NC said... My mom did not go to college, married and had 3 kids before she was 25yo. When we three kids were young my father had a long-term affair that my mom found out about after it had been going on for a year (my father was a youth pastor, so no, she never suspected it). She wanted to leave him but she had no skills and no way to support 3 small children. So she stayed and was miserable for another 15 years I know several people who have had similar situations as Heather in NC mentioned. One was an affair, and several other were due to the hubbies being very addicted to drugs. I want all my children to pursue college. My girls are being taught to be keepers of the home, and to be stay at home mommies... BUT, this is after they obtain their college degree. You just never know when you may need it!! Also, I do not have a degree and I REGRET it sooooo much!! SIGH... So, yes, I want my children to all be prepared for whatever life brings them. Oh... I also wanted to mention that while I am teaching them to be keepers of the home, I make it known, that it is up to them, and their spouses as to homeschool or what not. I do not plan to push an agenda on them. I want to support whatever route they take. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scrappyhappymama Posted June 4, 2008 Share Posted June 4, 2008 I haven't read all the replies, but I am definitely in the both camp. Having a college degree and education in general is about so much more than a career! If that wasn't true, then A LOT of what I will be teaching my children (boys and girls) would be pretty useless. If I teach my sons ancient history and they never go on to work in a museum or become an archaeologist or professor of history, then was it pointless to have taught them? Of course not. I stay home with my children now and feel blessed to be able to. But for years, early in our marriage I worked and helped to support myself and my husband while he finished college (I already had). Later, my husband had just graduated and was working only part time and had been accepted to return to the military as an officer. 9/11 happened and my job offered me reassignment or a layoff package. We had a new baby and would be moving within a few months for DH's new career so I took the layoff. We sold our house and were waiting for DHs orders to leave AND THEN we received notice that the military still wanted DH, but needed to slot more urgent needs (because of the war that was gearing up), and it would be at least a year before he could start OTS. So we had a part time job between us, no house, and a new baby. I mention all this because sometimes life happens and things go a completely different direction than we expect. My DH ended up going back to graduate school and I went back to work to support us for two more years. My degree was invaluable in finding a job that could support us for that time. Now that I am blessed to be a SAHM, I am still able to apply many of the things I learned to contribute to our family finances and other business matters for our family. So far, I do not have daughters, but if I ever do, I will encourage them to be both Godly and educated women. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sahamamama Posted June 4, 2008 Share Posted June 4, 2008 On a personal note, I don't have a college degree. I wasted the years I should have been going to college, and it scares me that I've put myself in such a precarious siuation. Now that my kids are older, in about a year or so I plan on going back to school, mainly online and night classes. Even if I never have a career, I still want that college degree. It would have been nice if I went to college when I was young though. My husband is 2 weeks away from earning his BS online, with a FT job and 3 babies, so have hope and courage -- it can be done. Online is the way to go, IMO. I barely noticed he was doing it.:001_smile: You will do it! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AngelaC Posted June 5, 2008 Share Posted June 5, 2008 My question is, if our daughters don't go to college (at home or away) What are they going to do with themselves? I ask this because right now, I have quite a few aquaintances who will NOT let their daughters go to college and frankly the girls have nothing to do but cook, clean, sew, watch younger siblings and pine away for a husband. Also, to be honest most are quite lazy. I am preparing my daughter for college as in college she will learn so many great skills she'll need for life. Think about it. Sure she'll learn some literature and science, but she'll also learn how to manage her time (won't that come in handy when she has three or four young children?), how to handle pressure without a lot of sleep (never enough sleep with babies!), money management skills (how grateful her husband will be for that one), how to serve fellow students (sounds like a SAHM to me!) not to mention some great education that will give her the confidence and knowledge to be able to school her own children. What a great topic. Since I have a 17dd it has been discussed quite frequently in our home. Next topic: should we send them away to school or have them live at home and commute . . .! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Julie in GA Posted June 5, 2008 Share Posted June 5, 2008 College is getting so expensive that it probably needs to be re-thought for both boys and girls. Janie Cheaney has a good article on this in a recent edition of World magazine. For girls, I do agree that you don't have to choose between training them to be keepers of the home, and getting a good liberal arts education. However, some women feel that college is where their daughters will meet future husbands, and that it is necessary socially. For $20,000 a year, I'd like more of a reason than that! There are all sorts of paths that our children can take. As parents, we need to prepare them to use their God-given abilities in whatever way He has planned. Other options are: *some college, but don't worry about a 4-year degree *take college courses during high-school and earn college credit through testing *apprentice or special school/classes for things like culinary arts, pottery & craftsy things, textiles, sewing & fashion design, etc. etc. Oh dear -- it's way too late. I'll stop now! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Donna A. Posted June 5, 2008 Share Posted June 5, 2008 Yes, thank you, Julie! Traditional college as defined by the government certainly is NOT the only way our daughters can have good futures. Why, after all, are we homeschooling if we don't want more and better options for our children than what the government says they need? I think our goals ought to include being different than the status quo... not assuming the worst for our children's futures and saying "this is an absolute must". Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JWSJ Posted June 5, 2008 Share Posted June 5, 2008 Then for her sake I hope her husband doesn't cheat on her, leave her or die before she does. I am all for being SAHM but every woman should be prepared to take care of herself if need be. I agree. As a father, I can NOT see raising my daughter to be unable to provide for herself if she needs or wants or if her spouse is lacking. Why? I've seen so many husbands that ended up being "complete losers". I am not raising my daughter to be trapped in such a relationship. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
swellmomma Posted June 5, 2008 Share Posted June 5, 2008 Wow there has been alot of responses here since my last post. I have a concern about those that have said their daughters will not go to college, and only be taught to be keepers of the home. Growing up all I wanted was to me a mommy (even says so in my baby book starting at age 3), by age 8 I included being a SAHM into that dream, by 15 I said I would homeschool my kids. In all that I just assumed I would have a husband to support us and we would live happily ever after. Life didn't work out that way, by 18 I was living on my own and working for a fast food place. At 19 I decided to finally go to college and moved back home. 1 year later at the lovely age of 20 I went to the bar with some friends, hooked up with a guy and go pregnant. When I found out I told my parents who promptly kicked me out. I ended up moving in with the guy since I had no where to go. SO here I was 20, pregnant, living with a virtual stranger and trying to go to college. Pregnancy complications forced me onto bedrest so there went that semester out the window. I assumed I would go back in the next term after I had my baby. Fast forward to the birth of my son, he was premature, so I couldn't go back to school right after his birth because he needed me home. My partner left the army, and refused to work when ds was 1 month old, a week later I was pregnant again. I had no way to help the family stay afloat while he dealt with his post army issues, with no education, a newborn and pg again. We married when I was 23, 8 months later he hit me and I left with my babies. There I was 24, single with a 2.5 yr old and an 18 month old and no education. I am sorry but being keeper of the home does squat to feed your kids and put shelter over their heads. The one thing I did have going for me was that I started working in daycares at 11 yrs old as a volunteer and worked all through high school as a paid employee, so I was able to find work in a daycare, making a lovely $8.50/hour and free daycare for the kids(which saved our behinds). In the last 7 years that I have been a single parent I have gone back to college twice, once to increase my level in childcare for a huge raise, and once as a medical office assistant. Between those two diplomas I got at college I can now work 2 very part time jobs and make enough money to stay home and homeschool my kids while I am still a single parent of now 4 children. Why do I air my dirty laundry here? Because I still regret not having gone to college right off the bat, I know my life and therefore my childrens would be much better if I had a better paying job due to a college degree. We make enough now to survive, but there is never extras, and that is only because I went back to college as an adult. No one can predict how their life will turn out. I always wanted kids, but I never thought I would have to do it 100% on my own. I pray thatmy daughters will never have to be single parents but you can not control the actions of another(as in their future husbands). In my case him hitting me was the last straw(we had a very difficult relationship to put it mildly prior to that), I want my daughters to have the ability to stand 100% on their own feet if they should ever find themselves single either by choice(my dd says she is never getting married), or by circumstance(abuse, widowhood etc). I do not want my children to have to suffer the anxiety, guilt and heartache that comes with struggling to provide for them without the education to back me up in the employment feild. WHo knows perhaps one day I will get remarried, but based on the last 7.5 years I think God has other plans for me. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Reya Posted June 5, 2008 Share Posted June 5, 2008 *apprentice or special school/classes for things like culinary arts, pottery & craftsy things, textiles, sewing & fashion design, etc. etc. If you think COLLEGE is expensive, have you checked out the good culinary schools??? Some things make NO SENSE to major in. Ballet? If you're good, you won't be doing it in college, but through a major ballet company's training program. Art? Go to an atelier if you want to REALLY learn how from a REAL artist, and not a failed academician! Theater? Unless you want to be a theater teacher in high school or middle school, get your degree in something else (to pay the bills) and go to an excellent acting school, instead. Majoring in these things in college is mainly a waste of time. College is the watered-down curriculum for these areas! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Reya Posted June 5, 2008 Share Posted June 5, 2008 I've known teens struggling with issues because they have always been obedient children yet struggle with their parents' expectations for them. Like the brilliant young pianist whose parents were insistent that she become a pharmacist. Perhaps you wouldn't be that strict, but it can be a real struggle for some who hate to displease their parents and cause trouble but really have other strong desires. Some end up repressing their real goals, pleasing their parents and not being happy. I've known quite a few people in this category. Without the freedom to open dialogue it can cause a lifetime of disappointment. Out of 5 children in my birth family all have successfully carved out careers--doctor, physicist, businessman, professional screen actor (and making a good living at it) and then me. But one of them only finished grade 11. Shocking, I know, from a family where all were expected to go to college. Who was the dropout? The now successful businessman who has worked his way up to upper management. Shocker, I know. I don't know if he is honest about his education on his resume, but he's very good at what he does. And the actor majored in psychology--he had no acting aspirations until his last year in university. I want them to have something that will put some food on the table. I don't care that much what. I would be VERY unhappy with a few majors--particularly business as a BA (versus and MBA) and communications--but I'm not picky otherwise. If you've got the "fallback," then go for your dreams. *g* Whatever they are! I've read some really chilling stories of what happens to kids who went to Julliard--the number who have managed to make it in professional music is extremely small. And this is JULLIARD! Many, many graduates express their distress at the fact that they pinned EVERYTHING on a life that was ultimately unlivable for them. Would I insist that a DC major in pharmacy? No. But I would STRONGLY recommend dual enrolling in, say, both Johns Hopkins (for a practical degree) as well as the Peabody Institute and taking a double major. Want to be an opera singer? Fine. But realize that even if you make it big, your career is STILL likely to be over in middle age even if you don't decide you're tired of the high-pressured life, and you need to have some fall back plan. And most likely, you'll be broke... Unfortunately, many companies are not as insightful as the one that employs your brother. There are plenty who have explicit policies about degrees and would send him back to school for a bachelor's, as ridiculous as it sounds. Cutting off job opportunities like that is really not the best way to go. If he had gotten a degree, he probably would have started higher, and for every success story like him, there are dozens of other people whose careers have stalled because they couldn't check all the right boxes. Stupid? You betcha. Still true. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michelle in MO Posted June 5, 2008 Share Posted June 5, 2008 I would definitely do both. I think girls need to be prepared to take care of themselves. Yes, they may eventually get married and be stay-at-home moms, but I think women also need to be prepared for those "curveballs" life sometimes throws at you. What if something happened to their husbands, i.e., they got sick or even worse? I believe young women should be prepared for any eventuality. Of course, I guess you're never really prepared, but at least having a degree (or some other type of education) is helpful. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Erica in PA Posted June 5, 2008 Share Posted June 5, 2008 I almost agree with those who say "both," but truthfully, if I'm choosing between emphasizing a well-rounded education or teaching domestic skills as I raise my daughter, I'm definitely going to emphasize the education. Most domestic duties can be picked up as adults with little or no training. I never cooked a meal or cleaned at all growing up, and yet I quickly learned to do so with no problem when I needed to. I really think that my education makes me a much better mother than years of housekeeping training would have. The "keepers at home" mentality for young girls sort of gives me a strange feeling, to be honest, when it comes to having classes for girls on housekeeping and such a strong emphasis on domestic skills. My hope is for both my sons and my daughter to have basic life-skills and housekeeping skills before they leave home. I want my dd to be just as well-rounded as the boys. On the other hand, I do hope that my dd will decide to stay home with her children some day. I guess where I differ from some of the others is that I think a well-rounded education (including college) is the best preparation for that. Erica Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Soph the vet Posted June 5, 2008 Share Posted June 5, 2008 We are preparing our dds for both. My dh and I got married at 30 and we had dc right away. I spent my twenties pursuing my lifelong dream of becoming a vet and even a specialty at that. But when our first dd was born, I quit full-time work, even part-time work for awhile to be a SAHM. Over the last ten years I have only worked part-time , like 3-10 hrs. per week at the most. If anything were to happen to my dh, I have a great vocation that I could fall back on. I want my dds to have that same security. I will encourage them to pursue whatever God has gifted them with as a job. But I will strongly encourage them to decide ahead of time that when they have children to be prepared to set that passion aside for a time and stay home with them. I want to instill in them that being a mom and a keeper of the home is the highest calling for women, that it is not what the culture would describe as second best. My own mom was a single mom for awhile and I grew up indoctrinated in the "you can do it all" kind of mindset that career is first and children are second. I'd like to reverse that for my dds. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Erica in PA Posted June 5, 2008 Share Posted June 5, 2008 My issue isn't the education itself. My beef with college for girls is sending them away from the family to become very independent single adults, not being under the protection of their father. I honestly don't think sending young girls away from home is an ideal situation. I think there needs to be authority in our lives to protect us from evil. Girls/Women are so easily deceived. I know I was when I left home to go to college, I was taken advantage of by employers and boyfriends alike. It was not a safe place and I don't want my daughters in the same compromising situations I was in as a young girl. Thankfullly, I met my future husband and he was the protection I needed. I honestly think higher education can be really good for girls but I would like them to be under their father's protection and live at home while pursuing their education. :) Your post raised a question in my mind... did your parents well-prepare you, before you went off to college? Did they talk to you throughout your life about temptations, and what to watch out for, and how to handle those situations when they arose? Did they give you a solid spiritual, emotional, and academic foundation? I'm asking because I frankly disagree that young women are innately in need of protection. I think that's only true if they are not well-prepared. It sounds to me as though you may not have been been adequately prepared, yourself. And honestly, it sounds as though your experiences may have caused your thinking on this to become quite fearful. It brings to mind this verse, 1 Timothy 1:7- For God did not give us a spirit of timidity, but a spirit of power, of love, and of self-discipline. Girls as well as boys can be prepared, emotionally and spiritually, to face life. That's one of the wonderful benefits of homeschooling for the Christian. We have 18 years to instill all these good things into our children, and help them to become spiritually mature, and to rely on the Lord and His Word. Then our daughters don't need to rely on others to protect them, because they will have the knowledge and spiritual tools they need to make the right choices. Erica Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kathy in MD Posted June 5, 2008 Share Posted June 5, 2008 I think our goals ought to include being different than the status quo... not assuming the worst for our children's futures and saying "this is an absolute must". I accept that college is not always needed to prepare our children to be able to support themselves, but we must prepare our children to be able to support themselves. What I do take issue with is the thought that preparing our dd's to support themselves is preparing them for a worst case scenario. There can be far worse situations than being single at age 22, 25, 30 and even later. And I wouldn't want a hypothetical dd of mine forced to get married to the best available man in order to support herself. I would want her to get married because this is a man she could love, respect, be friends with and foresee a happy future with. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ereks mom Posted June 5, 2008 Share Posted June 5, 2008 I wanted my daughters to be prepared, as much as possible, for whatever God has in store for them. To me, this meant a firm spiritual training, a good grasp of the practicalities of life and an excellent education. I want my daughters prepared for a satisfying life even if God does not call them to marriage. I want them prepared as much as possible to earn a good living if something happens to their husband if they do marry. I want them prepared to be good helpmeets to their husbands, and I want them prepared to give my grandchildren an excellent education! Anne :iagree: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PrairieAir Posted June 5, 2008 Share Posted June 5, 2008 Why can't women do both? Why does it have to be either or? If a child has no desire to go to college, I don't think you can make them, and I don't think it would be wise to try. I would definitely discuss it a lot and encourage it if I felt it was a good fit for that child, but I wouldn't try to force it. When they get to that age, they aren't children any more; they are adults and must make decisions for themselves about what kind of life they want to have. The same goes for boys or girls. I do think it's important to prepare a child for as much of life as we can. That includes learning how to cook and sew and care for children for girls and boys alike. Simple car and home maintenance is important for both as well, along with some other things. We don't know what our children's futures hold. Perhaps they will marry and have families and perhaps not. They should be prepared for life either way. College can be an important part of that. If a girl doesn't marry, she will need a job of some sort and a good job is sometimes easier to get with a college education. Even if she does marry, she may need to help bring in income or even take over as the sole breadwinner if her husband is hurt or ill or in the case of death or divorce. I hope my girls will go to college. My oldest has been planning to for some time and she will be taking several dual enrollment courses next year. She has a good idea of the career she'd like to have (vet), but that doesn't mean she doesn't want to be a wife and mother. My youngest has talked a little about some things she might like to do and we have discussed how going to college could help her in that regard. At the very least, I think it can be good for personal enrichment, though I'm not sure formal and expensive schooling is required if that's your only goal. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Georgie Posted June 5, 2008 Share Posted June 5, 2008 with children being raised with options for both. However, it is interesting to note that it is "girls" as keepers of the home. Myself, I am teaching both my son and daughter how to take care of the house and how to live life their life to help others and themselves. My son does not and hopefully will not see it as someone else's job to take care of his things whether his wife works or not. Everyone helps out, no matter what the chore. Even though my husband is the one who works, he is wonderful about pitching in and helping out. He does not wait to be asked, he just helps where needed. I am the same, we do not think of it as one person's job and not the others. We are in this life together. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hikin' Mama Posted June 5, 2008 Share Posted June 5, 2008 but I don't think these two are mutually exclusive. I like my parent's approach. They encouraged and loved us for who we were, instilled Christ's love and values in us by living it themselves, and didn't try to make us into the people they thought we should be. Oh, and they prayed a lot! I think God has a plan for every individual's life. It is not my job to decide what that plan is, it is my job to prepare them as best as I can for whatever that may be. Part of that is academic, a small part of that is keeping a home (I don't think it takes much to teach that, just mho), and then there are so many other things they need to learn: kindness, responsibility, work ethic, etc. I don't know if I really answered the question, but those are my thoughts before coffee and breakfast. :) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PrairieAir Posted June 5, 2008 Share Posted June 5, 2008 What I do take issue with is the thought that preparing our dd's to support themselves is preparing them for a worst case scenario. There can be far worse situations than being single at age 22, 25, 30 and even later. And I wouldn't want a hypothetical dd of mine forced to get married to the best available man in order to support herself. I would want her to get married because this is a man she could love, respect, be friends with and foresee a happy future with. :iagree: Worst case scenario? I don't think saying that all women should be wives and mothers is scriptural even. I Corinthians 7:7-9: For I would that all men were even as I myself. But every man hath his proper gift of God, one after this manner, and another after that. I say therefore to the unmarried and widows, It is good for them if they abide even as I. But if they cannot contain, let them marry: for it is better to marry than to burn. (I have been taught that "burn" is to burn with passion or lust, but I can't give any reference or reasoning for that. Perhaps the Greek word used? I don't know.) I Corinthians 7:32-34: But I would have you without carefulness. He that is unmarried careth for the things that belong to the Lord, how he may please the Lord: But he that is married careth for the things that are of the world, how he may please [his] wife. There is difference [also] between a wife and a virgin. The unmarried woman careth for the things of the Lord, that she may be holy both in body and in spirit: but she that is married careth for the things of the world, how she may please [her] husband. Obviously I'm all for marriage and children and being a stay at home mom! But I can understand what Paul says (by revelation) here. It is easier for a single person to devote themselves to God and the things of God. A family is a blessing, but it can be a distraction as well. Not that you can't serve God and move the Word with a family, it can just be harder at times to stay focused on God when you're running kids to sports and Scouts and trying to keep up with all the daily aspects of family life and balancing taking care of kids with paying attention to your spouse. I know it has been a struggle for me--a very worthwhile struggle, but a struggle nonetheless. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PineFarmMom Posted June 5, 2008 Share Posted June 5, 2008 I'd be doing her a tremendous disservice if I prepared her for only one. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bkpan Posted June 5, 2008 Share Posted June 5, 2008 Yes.:) Kim Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
elegantlion Posted June 5, 2008 Share Posted June 5, 2008 Your post raised a question in my mind... did your parents well-prepare you, before you went off to college? Did they talk to you throughout your life about temptations, and what to watch out for, and how to handle those situations when they arose? Did they give you a solid spiritual, emotional, and academic foundation? I'm asking because I frankly disagree that young women are innately in need of protection. I think that's only true if they are not well-prepared. It sounds to me as though you may not have been been adequately prepared, yourself. And honestly, it sounds as though your experiences may have caused your thinking on this to become quite fearful. It brings to mind this verse, 1 Timothy 1:7- For God did not give us a spirit of timidity, but a spirit of power, of love, and of self-discipline. Girls as well as boys can be prepared, emotionally and spiritually, to face life. Erica I agree that a girl or boy should be trained for both. I know many women who are single, some by choice. I know some women who would cringe at the idea of being a SAHM, they're great parents, wonderful kids, they just like to work. My dh is a great example. His mother was widowed with 5 small children, she went back to college at 32 to earn a degree. My dh learned how to take care of a house. He's a better cook and housekeeper than me. He'd make a great SAHD. My parents didn't train me for being a keeper of the home or college. College was not pushed in my household and there was no expectation that I would marry young. My mom is the type that would rather do it herself than teach. Was I ill prepared for life? In a way, yes. Would I have listened to their advice? Probably not, I was headstrong and rebellious. My college was the "school of hard knocks" and dh have earned our masters in that, I believe. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pensguys Posted June 5, 2008 Share Posted June 5, 2008 I agree. As a father, I can NOT see raising my daughter to be unable to provide for herself if she needs or wants or if her spouse is lacking. Why? I've seen so many husbands that ended up being "complete losers". I am not raising my daughter to be trapped in such a relationship. I only have boys, (and they will go to trade school or college or some type of schooling that will help them financially take care of a family), but I am SO glad my parents required me to go to college. I was the first one in my family (WHOLE family) to ever go to college. I ended up getting married a year or so after I graduated to one of those "complete losers". Before and after that marriage I was able to take care of myself financially, but I knew I could always depend on my parents if I really needed them. I did end up needing them and I would not be the person I am today or be living the life I am (now married to a wonderful man and a SAHM) without having gone to college and done the things I've done. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pensguys Posted June 5, 2008 Share Posted June 5, 2008 My question is, if our daughters don't go to college (at home or away) What are they going to do with themselves? I ask this because right now, I have quite a few aquaintances who will NOT let their daughters go to college and frankly the girls have nothing to do but cook, clean, sew, watch younger siblings and pine away for a husband. I know a family or two who have girls and they are doing just this. The oldest girl ended up with ovarian cancer and recently had to have a hysterectomy. Since she was middle school age and even younger, she was doing the above....and her younger sister too. Her younger brother gets to go to college. (All these kids have been homeschooled.) She was not even allowed to apprentice anywhere to learn how to cut hair (which she wanted to do) because the place they chose was too "worldly"....and this salon is owned by Christians and most of the employees are Christians. She will finally be getting married next Spring....and the only hope of children for her will be adoption (I'm not saying there is ANYTHING wrong with that, but I know it is costly.) Before her father would agree to her getting married, her fiance had to finish college and provide a house for them to live in...I guess apartment living wasn't "good enough"..... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Storm Bay Posted June 5, 2008 Share Posted June 5, 2008 If you think COLLEGE is expensive, have you checked out the good culinary schools??? Some things make NO SENSE to major in. Ballet? If you're good, you won't be doing it in college, but through a major ballet company's training program. Art? Go to an atelier if you want to REALLY learn how from a REAL artist, and not a failed academician! Theater? Unless you want to be a theater teacher in high school or middle school, get your degree in something else (to pay the bills) and go to an excellent acting school, instead. Majoring in these things in college is mainly a waste of time. College is the watered-down curriculum for these areas! Yes, and here's more. For screen acting, all you need is talent, a screen acting course and roles. The first 2 are far, far easier than the last one. One percent of those who go to Hollywood or Vancouver get real roles. Out of that group, one percent go on to make a living at it. So, that's 1 in 10,000, and that's not even an actor anyone has ever heard of. For professional dance, Reya is correct. However, a degree is becoming what you need to teach in more and more dance schools as so many parents want to see credentials they understand (not saying this makes it better, but it's what I'm seeing in the better dance schools here.) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tracey in TX Posted June 5, 2008 Share Posted June 5, 2008 College bound and hopefully they will eventually become keepers of their homes. You can't keep a home you can't afford to live in alone, so why not educate our young women to prepare to help their spouses in times of need? We're not guaranteed of having a prosperous economy and our children may be required to work in order to make ends meet. Hopefully not, but to best prepare our daughters in their roles we offer up the best possible options. My children know they are required to go to college. It's not negotiable (at this age). We feel strongly that our children get a minimum of a B.A. or B.S., but preferably a master's degree to compete in life. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jean in Newcastle Posted June 6, 2008 Share Posted June 6, 2008 I am training both my daughter and my son to keep a home and to go to college. I want them to be able to do both. Whether they choose to do either once they are adults will be up to them though I will strongly encourage them to go to college. And I will strongly encourage them to keep a well-managed home of their own when the time comes - and if they have children I will encourage them to have one adult stay home with the children and to even homeschool but then I will butt out and will support whatever they decide to do. Dd6 just planned our lunch menus for all of next week (and they are good healthy meals by the way). Ds10 just planned our lunch and dinner menus for the following week (good healthy menus too). They will help me prepare the actual meals - though I will still do the lion's share of the cooking. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mommylawyer Posted June 10, 2008 Share Posted June 10, 2008 My mother, who is NOT one to give advice, once told me, "Make sure you will be able to take care of yourself if you need to." I have two daughters and a son. I hope, and actually expect, all of them to go to college - and graduate. I want my children to be independent and to be able to sustain themselves. That said, I am also teaching my children that marriage and family is the ultimate goal. I met my DH when we were in law school - the first day of law school. We were married after my second year, but I didn't stop going to school. My education was important to me, as important as my DH's education was to him. And my education still matters - I am still a practicing attorney and homeschooling on the days I don't work. And I hope that I am teaching my children (especially my daughters) that you don't need to give up on your goals - if you have a goal to complete your education by getting a college decree, or a graduate or post-graduate degree, then do it; but be true to yourself. If one of them has a goal to be a full-time stay at home mother, then I will support her fully. However, if one feels as though she wants to devote her life to her career, it would be with misgivings, but I would support her as well. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Godislove120 Posted November 1, 2012 Share Posted November 1, 2012 I suppose the issue is that women are commanded by God trained to be to love their husbands and children, 5 to be self-controlled, pure, working at home, kind, and submissive to their own husbands, that the word of God may not be reviled (Titus 2). So I would assume, as a Christian, these women's study should be focused on that above anything a college would teach them. As far as college being good for teaching "life lessons". It's a bit too late, the Bible says it sufficient for that, 2 timothy 3:16-17. The "career plan" of a Christian women should be all that is listed in Titus 2. However, I doubt most colleges are set up for that. I guess the question would be what the women want to do with their college education? If it is getting a job outside of the home, then the Bible already doesn't list that as an option, rather the opposite. I'm sure a women can gain practical vocational skills that could possibly allow her to provide an income from home, however, you don't need a college degree for that. The Bible's pretty clear on the role of women. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Impish Posted November 1, 2012 Share Posted November 1, 2012 Holy old thread, Batman Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DianeW88 Posted November 1, 2012 Share Posted November 1, 2012 Second one I've seen today. What's up with that??? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mommaduck Posted November 1, 2012 Share Posted November 1, 2012 Why not prepare them for both? I have one daughter that wants a trade, not college. Either way, she is also being taught to take care of herself and a family. Oh, and my boys can do all the things the girls do. They need to also know how to care for a home and family. My stepdad cooked and sewed (and knew everything about guns and computers and cars). I know a bit about plumbing and woodwork. It works all ways and together. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lang Syne Boardie Posted November 1, 2012 Share Posted November 1, 2012 I suppose the issue is that women are commanded by God trained to be to love their husbands and children, 5 to be self-controlled, pure, working at home, kind, and submissive to their own husbands, that the word of God may not be reviled (Titus 2). So I would assume, as a Christian, these women's study should be focused on that above anything a college would teach them. As far as college being good for teaching "life lessons". It's a bit too late, the Bible says it sufficient for that, 2 timothy 3:16-17. The "career plan" of a Christian women should be all that is listed in Titus 2. However, I doubt most colleges are set up for that. I guess the question would be what the women want to do with their college education? If it is getting a job outside of the home, then the Bible already doesn't list that as an option, rather the opposite. I'm sure a women can gain practical vocational skills that could possibly allow her to provide an income from home, however, you don't need a college degree for that. The Bible's pretty clear on the role of women. I am so sorry to have to inform you that you have arrived to this argument four years late. It has expired from old age and also due to the fact that some of the participants aren't even here any more. If you wish to discuss this topic on these boards, please start a new thread. I am not a moderator. I am just one of many who are so tired of this resurrecting of dead threads. This thread is four years old. It's too old to drag out and start again on the forty-eleventh page, as if everyone should re-read the whole thing and take it up again. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mommaduck Posted November 1, 2012 Share Posted November 1, 2012 I am so sorry to have to inform you that you have arrived to this argument four years late. It has expired from old age and also due to the fact that some of the participants aren't even here any more. If you wish to discuss this topic on these boards, please start a new thread. I am not a moderator. I am just one of many who are so tired of this resurrecting of dead threads. This thread is four years old. It's too old to drag out and start again on the forty-eleventh page, as if everyone should re-read the whole thing and take it up again. Oh no, was this another zombie thread?! :confused::glare: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
higginszoo Posted November 1, 2012 Share Posted November 1, 2012 . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DawnM Posted November 1, 2012 Share Posted November 1, 2012 Crud, didn't see that this is a FOUR YEAR OLD THREAD. I answered anyway: I personally do not believe the Bible says you have to stay at home all day and I believe that it is not a sin for a mother to work. I did it for years. I believe you SHOULD go to college if you can. I also believe it is in your best interest as a woman to have the means to care for yourself should the need arise. I am not talking about divorce either. Your husband could lose a job and not be able to get a new one, could become disabled, or could even die. I think you do yourself a huge dis-service to not have a means of support available to you. There really needs to be a poll. Dawn Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Elinor Everywhere Posted November 1, 2012 Share Posted November 1, 2012 Oh no, was this another zombie thread?! :confused::glare: And I got so excited when I saw old posters like Plaid Dad and Trivium Academy. That's when I looked at the date. Rats. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Carol in Cal. Posted November 1, 2012 Share Posted November 1, 2012 We are given talents by God and it is sinful and thankless not to develop them. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NASDAQ Posted November 1, 2012 Share Posted November 1, 2012 Poor zombie thread came a day late for Halloween. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
annandatje Posted November 2, 2012 Share Posted November 2, 2012 I'm not a mom, but I do have a dd. I don't consider college and being a homemaker mutually exclusive although I probably interpret Titus 2:5 differently than the OP. I think all children need to learn life skills, including the skills needed to run a home. I've known enough bachelors - and widowers - to know that the need for domestic skills is not limited to girls. I also think that all young people need to have some skill that allows them to earn a living, outside the home if necessary. Unless a girl's family is prepared to support her and her children should she be widowed or abandoned, it is unwise to deny her the knowledge and skills necessary to earn her own living. College is, however, not the only way to gain those - in fact, it can be a very expensive and inefficient way to prepare for the job market, if that is your only goal. :iagree: Teach household skills to both genders as well as help to provide them with functional college degree or vocational training that will lead to a job with a living wage. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mama Geek Posted November 2, 2012 Share Posted November 2, 2012 Shoot I tried to pm the op to give my answer. Luckily the computer locked up and it didn't go through, I just realized it was a 4yo thread. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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