NYTimes article on "Quality Homework" has implications for homeschoolers

[Halcyon]

Thought others might find this article from yesterday's NYTimes thought-provoking. We've already implemented the "testing as reinforcement" component in our homeschool, but hadn't heard about the "spaced repetition", which makes a lot of sense and wouldn't be too hard to put into place.

 

Thoughts?

 

Article here.

[SailorMom]

Great article. I love the idea of spaced reinforcement, but have no idea how I could implement that....

I don't think I've ever seen a curriculum designed that way, that's for sure :)

I wonder exactly how much review would be needed?? Or just skimming chapters, watching a movie? I don't know.... It would be pretty easy to implement in, say, vocabulary and grammar. Foreign language as well....

Math, yeah.

I guess history and science would be the challenge....

Thanks for posting :)

[JumpyTheFrog]

This suggests that using "spaced repetition systems" such as Anki, Mnemosyne, etc. is a good idea. I know I've found them very effective myself for learning new vocabulary in a foreign language. I also plan to use Anki on the iPad for my son's memory work.

[Halcyon]

Great article. I love the idea of spaced reinforcement, but have no idea how I could implement that....

I don't think I've ever seen a curriculum designed that way, that's for sure :)

I wonder exactly how much review would be needed?? Or just skimming chapters, watching a movie? I don't know.... It would be pretty easy to implement in, say, vocabulary and grammar. Foreign language as well....

Math, yeah.

I guess history and science would be the challenge....

Thanks for posting :)

 

 

I was thinking for history, you could just make times when you go back over particular material. For example, every other week you could use to revisit material from previous weeks, through a library book, or perhaps notes that the child had taken (if they're older). Same with science.

 

Vocab and math are easy--we pretty much do that anyway around here.

[Halcyon]

This suggests that using "spaced repetition systems" such as Anki, Mnemosyne, etc. is a good idea. I know I've found them very effective myself for learning new vocabulary in a foreign language. I also plan to use Anki on the iPad for my son's memory work.

 

 

Links?

[chepyl]

We already do a lot of that. It is one of the benefits of homeschooling. We do constant review. I may go back and ask my son questions on what we learned in the first week of history. We discuss it as we move forward. I feel like we do the spaced repetition pretty well. I knew that would help with his recall. I feel like we also cover the "testing" with narration. He is in first grade, but we do tests in science and history. We do them together so we can look up and review the answers he does not know. But most of it is his recall. We also test spelling and grammar through dictation. I think it would be great if schools could send home less busy work and more homework that actually enhances learning.

Edited September 12, 2011 by chepyl

[jplain]

Great article!

 

As a college student I noticed the effects of retrieval practice on myself, though I didn't have a name for it.

Knowing tests often improved my comprehension made test-taking a lot more fun!

[Halcyon]

Links?

 

 

Okay, just googled. These look great. Which one do you prefer, assuming I am using a desktop and not a portable device?

[MBM]

I've used spaced repetition from the get-go with my kids, and it really seems to work. My name for it is a lot of little lessons often.

 

I've heard of some of the techniques in the article, but cognitive disfluency is a new one. My son prefers to study hard math problems because he says they are the ones from which he learns the most. He's beginning to tackle AIME and IMO problems nowadays, and interestingly, he's getting them right (but it sometimes takes him a few days to do them). I wonder if this would fall under cognitive disfluency.

 

If you're looking for a way to implement study skills such as spaced repetition, Galore Park's Study Skills has some ideas.

 

http://www.galorepark.co.uk/product/parents/88/study-skills.html

 

ISBN 978 1 902984 59 9

 

One part of the book mentions that while studying, children retain the most in shorter intervals of 20 to maybe 30 minutes, particularly what they study in the first and last minutes. Juggling in between study sessions seems to help kids retain, too.

 

Exercise also helps kids learn because it balances neurotransmitters and turns on BDNF (brain-derived neurotrophic factor).

Edited September 12, 2011 by MBM
added more information; spelling error

[Runningmom80]

I'm bookmarking this to read when I don't have two toddlers crawling all over me. Thanks for posting!

[chepyl]

 

One part of the book mentions that when studying, children retain the most in shorter intervals of 20 to maybe 30 minutes, particulary what they study in the first and last minutes. Juggling in between study sessions seems to help kids retain, too.

 

Exercise also helps kids learn because it balances neurotransmitters and turns on BDNF (brain-derived neurotrophic factor).

 

This is part of why we don't do school for long. We follow the Charlotte Mason approach of short lessons. Unless we really get into something, we don't really do anything longer than 20 minutes a day.

 

For more spaced repetition, we use Classical Conversations Foundations. It is our memory work, but we started it in week 6 of school, so we have already studied a lot of the time line items in SOTW. We are getting daily review by reciting the time line. I will ask him to tell me one thing about each time line item. It is the same for science and geography.

 

For history, we also listen to the SOTW on CD when we are in the car. Between car rides, and reading out loud at school time, we have listened to chapters 1-4 three times each.

 

And please forgive my previous post, it was done on my phone and I was apparently still asleep!! I have since corrected the many amazing errors! :tongue_smilie:

[AuntieM]

Sounds like the kind of thing that Saxon math's program does (which seems "slow" to many intuitive math students, I know, and not the place for a math debate, just an observation).

 

The flash cards in the SOTW activity books were great for this. My kids colored them, cut them out, and taped each to an index card in an index card notebook. Every Monday morning we started back at the first card for a quick review. Same thing for studying Greek. It was very helpful!

 

At the risk of hijacking, I am curious if any of you with kids that have visual processing/visual memory challenges who have found such a technique helpful as the student gets older?

 

Thanks for the article, OP. I will be sharing it!

[MIch elle]

Sounds like the kind of thing that Saxon math's program does (which seems "slow" to many intuitive math students, I know, and not the place for a math debate, just an observation).

 

 

 

:iagree: Saxon & CLE math uses retrieval for both daily work and tests, as well as mixed problem sets.

 

I have come to appreciate tests/quizzes MORE because of the review that studying for the test requires more than the score the test produces.

[Soror]

In RS Math we have daily review as well, it is oral. Now in RS C there is review lessons/practices every 6th lesson.

[Denise in Florida]

cheypl is correct that this is one of the great strengths of the Charlotte Mason approach. Once you have passed 20 - 30 minutes, the first things covered start dropping off the back of the cart. You (and your kids) time need to absorb the information. This is why longer school days are useless.

 

I found a site the other day that discussed this concept for businessmen and entrepenuers. It might be helpful as it provides a good visual of the concept, (warning there is some coarse language at the top)

 

http://www.stumbleupon.com/su/2YMMRL/the99percent.com/tips/6585/10-laws-of-productivity

[Negin]

Thank you for sharing this very interesting article. :)

 

I've used spaced repetition from the get-go with my kids, and it really seems to work. My name for it is a lot of little lessons often.

If you're looking for a way to implement study skills such as spaced repetition, Galore Park's Study Skills has some ideas.

http://www.galorepark.co.uk/product/parents/88/study-skills.html

ISBN 978 1 902984 59 9

One part of the book mentions that while studying, children retain the most in shorter intervals of 20 to maybe 30 minutes, particularly what they study in the first and last minutes. Juggling in between study sessions seems to help kids retain, too.

Exercise also helps kids learn because it balances neurotransmitters and turns on BDNF (brain-derived neurotrophic factor).

Thanks for this book recommendation. I just decided to order it. Looks good.

 

I've always implemented the Charlotte Mason method of short lessons. We've done this all along. Narration is great also. For a while, I began questioning and doubting the short lessons, but now I'm a believer once again. Thank you for reassuring me. :)

[angela in ohio]

Two things come to mind:

 

1.) Many homeschoolers (and co-op teachers) give students the same piles of busywork that public school students get. The courses that look like they have the "most" are often just full of busywork. It can satisfy us to feel like our dc created a pile or output, but we have to carefully consider the effectiveness.

 

2.) I have long been uncomfrotable with the popular homeschool notion of just waiting until a student is older and then teaching everything in one quick swipe. Repetition is the reason.

[MSNative]

Very interesting article. Thank you for posting it. I appreciate the concrete ideas that everyone has been posting.

 

I understand the daily review and we use a lot of that. They have also just started making up quizzes to help them review. (FYI - your kids will love this if you have to take their quizzes. Mine love to grade my quiz, esp. when I miss questions. Schadenfreude is learned early.)

 

How do you implement spaced repetition? We read our history chapter one day, then my kids do a high level outline of it another day and then discuss it another day. We do all this in the same week, though. Then they study for the test weeks later. I don't think that was what they were meaning. Any ideas?

 

Also, I get the idea that the harder a student has to work to learn a concept, the more likely he is to remember it. But I didn't like their example - giving an error filled, smudged worksheet. How else could you implement this? Have the kids dig for some info?

[Joyofsixreboot]

This may be why CLE math and grammar have been so effective for my kids. They have to use that memory retrieval system. We tend to short lessons and I've introduced tests in science but I'm calling them " review sheets". I'm wondering if lots of historical literature from different time periods would be more effective than tying it into the time period being studied. I think I'll order the Galore Park book. Most of my kids seem to have stumbled on these things by themselves but my 10 yo isn't an intuitive student.

Edited September 19, 2011 by joyofsix

[Bang!Zoom!]

Need more coffee.

 

Read title as:

 

"Quality Housework has implications for homeschoolers...." lol

 

Now wouldn't that be a great news title?

[Parrothead]

I think they have come up with a fancy name for what quite a few people intuitively know. Review, review, review. Or if at first you don't succeed, try try again.

[melissel]

Need more coffee.

 

Read title as:

 

"Quality Housework has implications for homeschoolers...." lol

 

Now wouldn't that be a great news title?

 

Well, it surely would for this homeschooler!

 

What a great thread. I'd read half that article and got called away, then forgot about it. I'm :lurk5: for real-life application ideas now!

[Halcyon]

 

Also, I get the idea that the harder a student has to work to learn a concept, the more likely he is to remember it. But I didn't like their example - giving an error filled, smudged worksheet. How else could you implement this? Have the kids dig for some info?

 

 

I think that having a child have to think about a concept, really talk about it, review it, analyze it, act it out, whatever, can help. For math, that might mean having your child explain, in real words (not just by doing the work) how to implement a concept. As in, have him pretend he's the teacher: how would he explain how to do, say, long division? In grammar, that might mean stopping while doing a read-aloud and asking (not frequently-that would be annoying!) can you tell me which word in the last sentence was the adverb? In history, that might mean doing a lapbook which approaches the concepts you're studying from a different perspective. When we read multiple sources for the American Revolution, I find my children saying things like "Wait, that wasn't what the other book said about the Boston Massacre!" and then we talk about what the other book said and how it differs (and in that way, there's "digging" and "review") For science, again, approaching one concept from multiple angles and discussing seems to really help cement a concept in the child's mind-are they just parroting back concepts or can they articulate them when presented with a different aspect/approach/theory? For spelling and editing, I find presenting my child with Evan-Moor's Paragraph Editing sheets are great practice-he feels "smart" when he finds the errors.

[linders]

"Spaced repetition" sounds like another term for the spiral approach, which many math and LA programs have and which isn't hard to implement in science or history if you just have brief discussions every week about what you already learned. Or am I missing something new in this part of it?

[ElizabethB]

"Spaced repetition" sounds like another term for the spiral approach, which many math and LA programs have and which isn't hard to implement in science or history if you just have brief discussions every week about what you already learned. Or am I missing something new in this part of it?

 

They have actually done studies about how often you need to review things, and there are programs that space it out properly for you, and individualize your review according to your personal forgetting pattern.

[kalanamak]

I think that having a child have to think about a concept, really talk about it, review it, analyze it, act it out, whatever, can help. For math, that might mean having your child explain, in real words (not just by doing the work) how to implement a concept. As in, have him pretend he's the teacher: how would he explain how to do, say, long division?

 

I try, but it is like pulling teeth to get this out of my kid.

[ElizabethB]

I try, but it is like pulling teeth to get this out of my kid.

 

:D. There would be meltdowns here.

[kalanamak]

:D. There would be meltdowns here.

 

Sometimes he does them spontaneously, and he goes on and on and on. I think, when he thinks he "knows" it, he goes hogwild to make up for all the times he didn't. :)

[silliness7]

Sounds like the kind of thing that Saxon math's program does (which seems "slow" to many intuitive math students, I know, and not the place for a math debate, just an observation).

 

The flash cards in the SOTW activity books were great for this. My kids colored them, cut them out, and taped each to an index card in an index card notebook. Every Monday morning we started back at the first card for a quick review. Same thing for studying Greek. It was very helpful!

 

At the risk of hijacking, I am curious if any of you with kids that have visual processing/visual memory challenges who have found such a technique helpful as the student gets older?

 

Thanks for the article, OP. I will be sharing it!

 

:iagree: The two things that popped in my head as I was reading the article were Saxon Math and flashcards. I didn't know they had such fancy terms to go along with....interleaving and retrieval practice.

 

Well, I'm a big fan of both.

 

And who knew Spaced Repetition is the fancy word for what I get when I don't match up our textbook reading with our library book reading. My thought being if kid reads about French Revolution before we officially "study" it, it's a preview. If it's after, it's a review. Spaced repetition. Cool!

 

I also insist that my older students outline most of their reading material. My reasoning is that outlining is stinkin' HARD, and you have to read over some material several times to figure out how to outline it and therefore it sticks in the brain better because it has been sweated over and wrestled with.

 

Much of this seems like common sense with new names.

[silliness7]

As far as history goes, Spaced Repetition can also happen when you have your kids make connections with what you've already learned. Revisit what you've already learned in the context of comparing/contrasting with the new material. You would not only get repetition of the old stuff, but you'd be analyzing the new stuff with more depth, connecting it to what you already know - making it easier to hang it on that pegboard in the brain that is hopefully getting larger (slowly but surely) :001_smile:

 

Unfortunately I don't know of a curriculum that manages history this way. It seems very dependent on mom reading the material, making her own connections, and modeling this and extracting this through some socratic dialogue.

[Halcyon]

As far as history goes, Spaced Repetition can also happen when you have your kids make connections with what you've already learned. Revisit what you've already learned in the context of comparing/contrasting with the new material. You would not only get repetition of the old stuff, but you'd be analyzing the new stuff with more depth, connecting it to what you already know - making it easier to hang it on that pegboard in the brain that is hopefully getting larger (slowly but surely) :001_smile:

 

Unfortunately I don't know of a curriculum that manages history this way. It seems very dependent on mom reading the material, making her own connections, and modeling this and extracting this through some socratic dialogue.

 

 

I agree about the socratic dialogue-i think it's critical for making those "connections".

[Negin]

If you're looking for a way to implement study skills such as spaced repetition, Galore Park's Study Skills has some ideas.

 

http://www.galorepark.co.uk/product/parents/88/study-skills.html

 

ISBN 978 1 902984 59 9

 

One part of the book mentions that while studying, children retain the most in shorter intervals of 20 to maybe 30 minutes, particularly what they study in the first and last minutes. Juggling in between study sessions seems to help kids retain, too.

 

Once again, thank you so much for this book recommendation. Dd is enjoying it a lot and I will soon order it for ds also.

 

If anyone is interested in a similar book, with more focus on Test Taking, I just received this and it looks really good. I'm really liking this company. :)

 

[garddwr]

The concept cognitive disfluency brought to mind an article I read (I think in Scientific American but I don't have the reference) outlining a study done on neurogenesis in mice:

 

Scientists used to think that adult mammals did not produce new neurons in their brains, but more recently have learned that new neurons are in fact produced everyday. Even in mice, this is on the order of thousands of new neurons every day--presumably there are many more than that produced in human brains. What is interesting is that the new neurons quickly die off unless the mouse faces a difficult learning challenge. The difficulty of the learning challenge mattered, with mice who mastered more difficult problems retaining more of the new neurons.

 

Food for thought...

[MrsBear]

We do something similar here, but I don't try to spiral things since DS is more a mastery-based child who seems to retain better with a mastery approach, especially in math and science.

 

For some subjects, like history, I'll bring back into the conversation previous points in history that relates to what we're doing in the present. That seems to reinforce things nicely and also, I think, is helping DS to understand that history isn't just a point in time, but really a continuum.

 

With spelling, we continue along in AAS, but I do return to previously taught and learned spelling rules, adding them into spelling lists and/or taking a lesson a week to review what we did a few weeks ago again. Once a month I do "test" for everything learned in the previous month as we're moving forward too. AAS doesn't call for this, but I feel it's important for DS to have repetition with spelling.

 

In math, since DS is really mastery-based, I tend to just throw in a few problems in drills or into mental math we do when we're out driving. More often than not though, one way I've figured out how to get DS to review things without making it painful for him is to task him with challenging me or DH with problems using concepts he knows. In that way, he sets up the problem and has worked out the solution - I've found that really reinforces what he knows well.

 

We play a lot of different games too, math, geography, history, science, etc. - and that's always reinforcing concepts.

 

I don't do a lot of "tests" but I do some, they're more for practice in taking tests, but they too do reinforce material and highlight areas where DS may need a bit more repetition.

[Mom0012]

This suggests that using "spaced repetition systems" such as Anki, Mnemosyne, etc. is a good idea. I know I've found them very effective myself for learning new vocabulary in a foreign language. I also plan to use Anki on the iPad for my son's memory work.

 

This is a little off-topic, but I'm curious about Anki. I've downloaded it on my computer and input all our Spanish vocab words. I haven't seen a way to set up an account for each person who wants to use this though. Does this mean I have to input the same flashcards for each person who wants to use them or is there a way for multiple users to use the same set of flashcards?

 

I'm also wondering if there is something better than Anki, even if it's not free. Anki does not give you the ability to have the computer pronounce the word and I think that's important in learning foreign language vocab.

 

Thx!

Lisa

Edited April 7, 2012 by LisaTheresa

[StephanieZ]

Who else thought of MCT when they read the part about cognitive disfluency?!?! I'd been blaming atrocious editing . . . but maybe MCT puts all those "typos" in there ON PURPOSE?!?

 

And AoPS when they read the part about mixing up problem solving strategies?

 

Great article!