Menu
Jump to content

What's with the ads?

Archived

This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.

dancer67

Can you be a Christian and still

Recommended Posts

Define "ok."

 

If you mean that it is possible for same-sex couples to be "married," then no, absolutely not. Marriage is a covenant between a man and a woman. The end.

 

Could I be friends with someone who is a homosexual? Yes.

 

Would I be able to stay in a church which allowed a practicing homosexual pastor? Absolutely not.

 

I would expect someone who claimed to be a Christian and a homosexual to work on being celebate.

 

I cannot judge someone's heart, or his relationship to God, but I can judge his behavior. God has given us a manual: the Bible. It is clear in the Bible that homosexual behavior is sinful. So is adultery and other sexual activity outside of marriage. You bet I'm going to judge that behavior as being unacceptable, even as I pray for those who commit the sin and those whom they hurt by their behavior.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
:iagree:

 

See? This is exactly how I feel. But boy, do I get a lot of flack from it.

 

I have Christian friends who are in homosexual relationships. I do believe there is a genetic component to homosexuality-that this lifestyle is not a choice. Personally, it isn't any of my business who my friends have a realtionship/marriage with. Oh, and I am very much a Christian.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I am a Christian. I have precious, treasured friends who are homosexual. I do not judge them because the Bible advises not to. I do not consider it my responsibility to point out the scriptures related to homosexuality to them.

 

The state of my life and soul are between me and God. The state of their lives and souls are between them and God.

 

My life has been enriched by some wonderful, precious people who are homosexual. I love them as Jesus would. I don't judge them. They don't judge me. If I rejected people as friends who had been or were currently in some type of sin, I would be friendless indeed.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Answer to originally posted question: As there are near-infinite sub-groups for Christianity, there shall be near-infinite answers to the question because each person shall respond according to the teachings of his particular affiliation.

 

In other words, I don't think the question "works" as a question. :)

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
I am a Christian. I have precious, treasured friends who are homosexual. I do not judge them because the Bible advises not to. I do not consider it my responsibility to point out the scriptures related to homosexuality to them.

 

The state of my life and soul are between me and God. The state of their lives and souls are between them and God.

 

My life has been enriched by some wonderful, precious people who are homosexual. I love them as Jesus would. I don't judge them. They don't judge me. If I rejected people as friends who had been or were currently in some type of sin, I would be friendless indeed.

:iagree: Well said. Who am I to judge another? None of us are perfect, I am grateful for friends who support me and my family and I do not care about their sexuality. I have other more important worries in my life. So that was a yes to the original question.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
So... a homosexual can be a Christian. We accept the Lord while we are in sin. Justification comes first, then sanctification. If someone is struggling with homosexuality while I struggle with fits of anger, why should I judge them more harshly than I judge myself?

 

Exactly but with one clarification (and this is often the sticking point)... As you mentioned, we all struggle with overcoming our sinful natures. But to be openly and unrepentantly gay (as in you don't think you are doing anything wrong, gay and proud, etc) is where the division comes in. I would feel the same about someone who is openly and unrepentantly committing adultery, etc. I would still love them and continue praying for them, for the strength to overcome. Just as I pray for strength to overcome my own sinful nature.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

It angers me that so many churches today fully accept remarriage after a divorce, which the Bible also calls sin (if the divorce is not for reasons of abuse), and yet frowns so heavily on homosexual relationships.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Answer to originally posted question: As there are near-infinite sub-groups for Christianity, there shall be near-infinite answers to the question because each person shall respond according to the teachings of his particular affiliation.

 

In other words, I don't think the question "works" as a question. :)

 

I'd actually be interested to hear a justification for thinking that a Christian can't think homosexuality is okay. (I'm not talking about whether or not a person can be gay and be a Christian, but just whether a person--for the sake of argument, let's say a straight person--can believe that homosexuality is not sinful and still be a Christian.) What about believing that homosexuality isn't a sin would prevent a person from being a Christian? I don't see anything in any of the historic creeds that demands that people consider particular acts sins or interpret the Bible in a particular way, and certainly people don't have to be right on every single moral/political issue in order to be Christians. As somebody mentioned above, Christians are allowed to be wrong, so even if homosexuality is a sin, would being wrong about that really mean that somebody can't be a Christian?

 

I'm hard-pressed to come up with any reason why just thinking being gay is okay would automatically disqualify a person from being a Christian.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Define "ok."

 

If you mean that it is possible for same-sex couples to be "married," then no, absolutely not. Marriage is a covenant between a man and a woman. The end.

 

Could I be friends with someone who is a homosexual? Yes.

 

Would I be able to stay in a church which allowed a practicing homosexual pastor? Absolutely not.

 

I would expect someone who claimed to be a Christian and a homosexual to work on being celebate.

 

I cannot judge someone's heart, or his relationship to God, but I can judge his behavior. God has given us a manual: the Bible. It is clear in the Bible that homosexual behavior is sinful. So is adultery and other sexual activity outside of marriage. You bet I'm going to judge that behavior as being unacceptable, even as I pray for those who commit the sin and those whom they hurt by their behavior.

 

:iagree:

 

I believe homosexual behavior is a sin.

 

I do NOT believe it is a "worse" sin than other sins. This often separates me from my fellow believers who seem to think that homosexual behavior is the worst sin there is. I don't get that mindset.

 

Yes I would still be friends with someone who is a homosexual.

 

:iagree:

 

However, I will not continue a close friendship with a homosexual who lives openly and unrepentantly in sin and still claims to be a Christian. Neither would I continue a close friendship with any other person who is living in open and unrepentant sin while claiming to be a Christian.

 

And to answer your actual question. Can a Christian believe homosexuality is okay and still be a Christian? Yes, because we are saved by faith in Christ alone. That doesn't mean our the rest of theology is automatically immediately correct. I believe they are wrong, seriously wrong, but I do believe they can still be a Christian.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Quote:

Originally Posted by Mama Geek

I would not be friends with them

 

You have asked for people's opinions, I am giving mine. I know it is different than a lot of the other answers you will get on this forum.

 

 

:confused::confused:

 

I know this is your opinion and you are free to be friends with whoever you want, obviously. But, you are missing out on some really great friendships. Do you feel the same way about other sinners? I am not talking of felonious ones...just the plain, average Joe ones...you know...gluttons, adulterers, drunkards, gossipers....etc. What about idolators? What about sabbath- breakers? Oy...this sounds contentious...but is not meant in that spirit. Really. I am just trying to understand how we pick which sinners to stay away from. Personally, I can't take drunkards or adulterers...:D

 

Faithe

 

I am not into getting into a debate on this that will likely end in shutting the thread down. The OP asked for opinions and I gave mine. I take friendships seriously and yes in general when people say that living in a sinful lifestyle is acceptable whether it is homosexuality, idolatry, drunkeness, etc. I don't end up friends with them. If someone makes mistakes, realizes it is wrong, repents, and tries to change that is different.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Exactly but with one clarification (and this is often the sticking point)... As you mentioned, we all struggle with overcoming our sinful natures. But to be openly and unrepentantly gay (as in you don't think you are doing anything wrong, gay and proud, etc) is where the division comes in. I would feel the same about someone who is openly and unrepentantly committing adultery, etc. I would still love them and continue praying for them, for the strength to overcome. Just as I pray for strength to overcome my own sinful nature.

 

On this note, would you not think that it falls under the teachings about letting the Holy Spirit convict or show to each person when he or she is in sin?

 

If the person does not believe it is a sin, the Holy Spirit has not yet convicted that person that it's a sin, they are not being unrepentant.

 

If that person acknowledges that it is a sin, then goes on doing what he's doing anyway, then he is being unrepentant.

 

There are many things that as a young believer I did not realize were sin, even if they were spelled out in the Bible. There are things even now that some Christians call a sin (and with verses to back them up) that I do not believe are in fact a sin. (ex: using, or not using, birth control, or using or not using alcohol, etc).

 

I am not being unrepentant in those areas; I plain disagree that those things are sin. Until the Holy Spirit convicts ME of those things, I cannot/should not/ought not be held accountable to those guidelines.

 

Because of things like this, I'm willing to grant that my interpretation of scripture might not be the single right way to interpret scripture, and as such, I just am....reluctant is not quite strong enough.....but I really don't like to "pray for someone to have the strength to overcome" some sin that I think is a sin if God has not convicted that person.

 

It's not up to me to decide; it's up to God. Thus my live & let live, love everyone, and do not judge attitude. There is always the possibility that I'm interpreting scripture wrong, and for this reason I don't feel comfortable holding other people to the standard I hold for myself.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

However, I will not continue a close friendship with a homosexual who lives openly and unrepentantly in sin and still claims to be a Christian. Neither would I continue a close friendship with any other person who is living in open and unrepentant sin while claiming to be a Christian.

:iagree:

 

And to answer your actual question. Can a Christian believe homosexuality is okay and still be a Christian? Yes, because we are saved by faith in Christ alone. That doesn't mean our the rest of theology is automatically immediately correct. I believe they are wrong, seriously wrong, but I do believe they can still be a Christian.

:iagree:

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
:iagree:

 

 

 

:iagree:

 

However, I will not continue a close friendship with a homosexual who lives openly and unrepentantly in sin and still claims to be a Christian. Neither would I continue a close friendship with any other person who is living in open and unrepentant sin while claiming to be a Christian.

 

And to answer your actual question. Can a Christian believe homosexuality is okay and still be a Christian? Yes, because we are saved by faith in Christ alone. That doesn't mean our the rest of theology is automatically immediately correct. I believe they are wrong, seriously wrong, but I do believe they can still be a Christian.

 

But is it unrepentant if they do not believe and have not yet been convicted that their particular sin is wrong?

 

If you, for example, believe that all consumption of alcohol is wrong yet your friend believes that only drunkeness is wrong, would you stop being close friends with him or her until he either repented of the sin or stopped claiming to be a Christian?

 

Are you open to the possibility that your interpretation of scripture might be wrong?

 

(I actually believe, with you, that any extra-marital sex is wrong/a sin, but I also recognize that there are a plethora of things that I think that other people disagree with, so I'm not willing to stake friendships on my way or the highway interpretation of scripture....)

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

My post seems a random pick. :confused:

 

For the [Eastern] Orthodox Christian, a homosexual Christian is, without question, a Christian. We shun the sin, we do not shun the person. Someone who persists in the practice, or who condones the practice, however, would be considered an unrepentant Christian. Rejection of the belief and of the practice, along with sacramental confession and steadfast intent to place it all permanently in the past, would be required to restore the individual to full standing within the Church. Without this, the person could not receive the life-bestowing Mystery of Holy Communion, as well as so much else. He would have chosen to cut himself off from life. This holds true for all sins not rejected, repented of, and confessed, not just for the specific one under discussion. (no need to list everything possible in the realm of sin!) . . . That is an overly-brief reply.

 

What I wrote is Church teaching. As I posted earlier, there are so many sub-groups for Christianity, with concomitant opinions, I don't see the question as being useful for a mixed-belief group such as a message board.

 

 

 

 

I'm hard-pressed to come up with any reason why just thinking being gay is okay would automatically disqualify a person from being a Christian.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
I'm interested in the third layer. Could you be more specific and give what you believe is a more valid interpretation? Thanks.

 

I don't believe that the "sin" of Sodom was homosexuality. God intended to destroy the cities before Lot's angelic visitors were threatened with homosexual rape. Jeremiah suggests that the cities were rampant with adultery, lies, and supported evil. The New Testament talks about the inhospitality. The sin of homosexual rape does not invalidate homosexuality any more than Davids' behavior invalidates heterosexual intimacy.

 

In the purity laws, I can't argue against homosexuality without also arguing against tattoos, round haircuts, and garments of 2 materials.

 

In the Pauline references, the culture Paul would have been referencing involved the pervasive tradition of pederasty and male prostitution. I believe this has nothing to do with monogomous homosexual relationships in the modern world.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
On this note, would you not think that it falls under the teachings about letting the Holy Spirit convict or show to each person when he or she is in sin?

 

If the person does not believe it is a sin, the Holy Spirit has not yet convicted that person that it's a sin, they are not being unrepentant.

 

If that person acknowledges that it is a sin, then goes on doing what he's doing anyway, then he is being unrepentant.

 

There are many things that as a young believer I did not realize were sin, even if they were spelled out in the Bible. There are things even now that some Christians call a sin (and with verses to back them up) that I do not believe are in fact a sin. (ex: using, or not using, birth control, or using or not using alcohol, etc).

 

I am not being unrepentant in those areas; I plain disagree that those things are sin. Until the Holy Spirit convicts ME of those things, I cannot/should not/ought not be held accountable to those guidelines.

 

I agree with this. I do think a person should be open to having their minds changed (in either direction). But, if a person has read and studied and prayed and, at this point, still really, truly believes that a given behavior isn't a sin, then I don't think they are being disobedient or unrepentant.

 

Personally, I have had my mind changed on a number of issues. I have been convicted, over the years, that sex outside of marriage is a sin, something I didn't initially believe. I also have come to believe that abortion is morally wrong (although I don't support outlawing it for a number of practical reasons), which is absolutely not what I previously believed. I was open to having my mind changed, and over time it was.

 

I think I've also been open to having my mind changed on the issue of homosexuality. I've read different viewpoints on it. I've prayed about it. But, not only has my mind not been changed, I've become increasingly convinced that it isn't inherently sinful. I don't think that's my being willfully obstinate, because I do believe I'm open to the Spirit's leading on this issue. But the Holy Spirit has not led me in that direction.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
I don't believe that the "sin" of Sodom was homosexuality. God intended to destroy the cities before Lot's angelic visitors were threatened with homosexual rape. Jeremiah suggests that the cities were rampant with adultery, lies, and supported evil. The New Testament talks about the inhospitality. The sin of homosexual rape does not invalidate homosexuality any more than Davids' behavior invalidates heterosexual intimacy.

 

In the purity laws, I can't argue against homosexuality without also arguing against tattoos, round haircuts, and garments of 2 materials.

 

In the Pauline references, the culture Paul would have been referencing involved the pervasive tradition of pederasty and male prostitution. I believe this has nothing to do with monogomous homosexual relationships in the modern world.

 

Thanks for expounding on this; I appreciate it even though I'm not the one who first asked for it.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
I tend to agree, but I'd say that somebody declaring that a gay person can't be a Christian, or that a person who doesn't think homosexuality is a sin can't be a Christian, is the kind of judgment it's talking about.

 

I agree.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I believe that people who use the bible as a means to discriminate and condemn anyone are probably the biggest "sinners" of all.

 

:iagree:

 

 

I am a Christian and have lots of friends who are homosexual, and I have absolutely no problem with it. I support their relationships as much as I support any relationship between 2 people who love each other. I don't think they are sinful, and I don't think homosexuality is a choice----if it is a choice, then heterosexuality must also be a choice, and I don't know anyone who has said that they have chosen to be one way or the other--it is just how they were made, like how some people have blue eyes and others green.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

The short answer is yes, a person can be a homosexual and still be a Christian. The full answer is much more complicated than that. I believe the same way these ladies do:

 

I believe homosexual behavior is a sin.

 

I do NOT believe it is a "worse" sin than other sins. This often separates me from my fellow believers who seem to think that homosexual behavior is the worst sin there is. I don't get that mindset.

 

Yes I would still be friends with someone who is a homosexual (I am currently and I have family members who are gay).

 

So... a homosexual can be a Christian. We accept the Lord while we are in sin. Justification comes first, then sanctification. If someone is struggling with homosexuality while I struggle with fits of anger, why should I judge them more harshly than I judge myself?

 

 

Exactly but with one clarification (and this is often the sticking point)... As you mentioned, we all struggle with overcoming our sinful natures. But to be openly and unrepentantly gay (as in you don't think you are doing anything wrong, gay and proud, etc) is where the division comes in. I would feel the same about someone who is openly and unrepentantly committing adultery, etc. I would still love them and continue praying for them, for the strength to overcome. Just as I pray for strength to overcome my own sinful nature.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
I call myself a Christian and accept and believe that homosexuality is natural for some people. I don't try to convert my friends; they are who they are and I love them. And that saving from sin stuff...uh, no.

 

I do believe there are many Christians who will strongly disagree with my opinion, though.

 

I was going to just answer the OP's questions with a 'yes' but Ria said it so much better. :iagree::iagree: Yes, Christians can be homosexuals and vice versa.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Most of the Christians I know are fine with homosexuality.

 

Can you belong to certain denominations and be okay with homosexuality? Then the answer may well be no but when major churches like the Episcopal churches are ordaining homosexual bishops, the answer to the original question is quite obviously yes.

 

Some fellow Christians might deny your Christianity if you're fine with homosexuality but frankly, fellow Christians have been denying the Christianity of other Christians for 2000 years so that ain't no big deal.[/QUOTE]

 

:lol::lol: I love the part I bolded. I used to belong to a women's group and I swear their favorite acitivity was deciding who was and who wasn't really a Christian. I don't have much taste for that so I left.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Right.

 

What does it mean to "be OK with homosexuality?" It means that you agree it's an acceptable way to be in a sexual relationship because God says it's OK. Well, he doesn't. If one thinks it's OK to live out those feelings regardless of what God says, then one must think God was wrong on the topic and I can imagine they'd then wonder what else God got wrong.

 

But that doesn't mean that a person needs to become someone they are not, IMO. God does not want a person, either by choice or genetic makeup, to act upon homosexual feelings because it's the behavior he does not allow. He does NOT say that gay people cannot be Christians, he does not tell us to shun gay people, and he does not make any of us UNABLE to do his will. THAT is what is the choice here. The whole genetic thing is moot, really.

 

I think what most people bristle at is that if God made someone that way, then it must be OK. Or that if God made someone gay then how could he ask them to live differently than they *feel* or go against who they are. God looks at the whole person and we are all so much more than our sexual attractions. We're spiritual beings who are able with his power in us to live in a way that pleases him. That's a great thing, a freeing thing! Alcoholics and depressed or bi-polar people or those who suffer with murderous rage or jealousy or selfishness or...ANY thorn in their side, can live a fulfilling life that is still in line with what God wants for them. And that doesn't diminish them as a person in any way, that does not deny them dignity. It means that we can be so much MORE, not less, not pigeonholed into one aspect of our lives and personality.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
I don't believe that the "sin" of Sodom was homosexuality. God intended to destroy the cities before Lot's angelic visitors were threatened with homosexual rape. Jeremiah suggests that the cities were rampant with adultery, lies, and supported evil. The New Testament talks about the inhospitality. The sin of homosexual rape does not invalidate homosexuality any more than Davids' behavior invalidates heterosexual intimacy.

 

In the purity laws, I can't argue against homosexuality without also arguing against tattoos, round haircuts, and garments of 2 materials.

 

In the Pauline references, the culture Paul would have been referencing involved the pervasive tradition of pederasty and male prostitution. I believe this has nothing to do with monogomous homosexual relationships in the modern world.

 

Thank you Joanne, I appreciate this and the previous post with the four layers (I don't know how to do multiple quotes). You have expressed my feelings in a more concise and coherent way than I have ever been able to.

 

I am a Christian, I self-identify as such, but sometimes I as ashamed that I want to add 'but not like that'.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Right.

 

What does it mean to "be OK with homosexuality?" It means that you agree it's an acceptable way to be in a sexual relationship because God says it's OK. Well, he doesn't. If one thinks it's OK to live out those feelings regardless of what God says, then one must think God was wrong on the topic and I can imagine they'd then wonder what else God got wrong.

 

But that doesn't mean that a person needs to become someone they are not, IMO. God does not want a person, either by choice or genetic makeup, to act upon homosexual feelings because it's the behavior he does not allow. He does NOT say that gay people cannot be Christians, he does not tell us to shun gay people, and he does not make any of us UNABLE to do his will. THAT is what is the choice here. The whole genetic thing is moot, really.

 

I think what most people bristle at is that if God made someone that way, then it must be OK. Or that if God made someone gay then how could he ask them to live differently than they *feel* or go against who they are. God looks at the whole person and we are all so much more than our sexual attractions. We're spiritual beings who are able with his power in us to live in a way that pleases him. That's a great thing, a freeing thing! Alcoholics and depressed or bi-polar people or those who suffer with murderous rage or jealousy or selfishness or...ANY thorn in their side, can live a fulfilling life that is still in line with what God wants for them. And that doesn't diminish them as a person in any way, that does not deny them dignity. It means that we can be so much MORE, not less, not pigeonholed into one aspect of our lives and personality.

 

 

It would seem strangely sadistic, though, in this version of god, that he would make his creation a certain way and then deny them the ability to be loved in a romantic relationship. Same sex attraction is not a thorn in their side and should never be compared with mental illness or addiciton. :glare:

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
It would seem strangely sadistic, though, in this version of god, that he would make his creation a certain way and then deny them the ability to be loved in a romantic relationship. Same sex attraction is not a thorn in their side and should never be compared with mental illness or addiciton. :glare:

 

Yes, it appears to be the height of cruelty to me.

Homosexuality--and the consumation of a homosexual relationship--it's the only "sin", where avoiding it, means you deny yourself a hand to hold, someone to cuddle on the couch with, a physical relationship.

 

Heterosexuals can "get married" if they want to magically legitimize their relationships. Homosexuals have no way to do that.

 

For all of the Christians with gay friends who have partners, you realize that if your friends had been living years ago, and been your co-religionists, they should be executed. This is what your God wanted. You still worship the God that mandated this.

 

It's hard for me to grasp.

 

I'm glad that the religion has grown more humane, but I think remembering the origins, and the teachings of the deity of various religions, is important.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
It would seem strangely sadistic, though, in this version of god, that he would make his creation a certain way and then deny them the ability to be loved in a romantic relationship. Same sex attraction is not a thorn in their side and should never be compared with mental illness or addiciton. :glare:

 

:iagree:

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Yes, it appears to be the height of cruelty to me.

Homosexuality--and the consumation of a homosexual relationship--it's the only "sin", where avoiding it, means you deny yourself a hand to hold, someone to cuddle on the couch with, a physical relationship.

 

Heterosexuals can "get married" if they want to magically legitimize their relationships. Homosexuals have no way to do that.

 

For all of the Christians with gay friends who have partners, you realize that if your friends had been living years ago, and been your co-religionists, they should be executed. This is what your God wanted. You still worship the God that mandated this.

 

It's hard for me to grasp.

 

I'm glad that the religion has grown more humane, but I think remembering the origins, and the teachings of the deity of various religions, is important.

 

 

I think it is also important to remember that those "origins" were never sola scriptura in nature. To just look at the Old Testament does not give the full picture.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
I think it is also important to remember that those "origins" were never sola scriptura in nature. To just look at the Old Testament does not give the full picture.

 

I'm not following. Was this not a rule when God gave it? Or is this just an example of "it says that, but it we don't believe it. People weren't supposed to obey that."

 

Or, "God didn't really say that. The Bible is a bunch of man-made rules." or a variation.

 

It's fair to say that I come from a Biblical-inerrancy background. I read the Bible. I was supposed to believe God ordained this stuff. Every word was true.

 

I understand you don't come from that background.

 

To those who do, I think it's something that needs to be explained. "Not all Christians believe the Bible word for word."

 

If I want to understand Islam, I read the Koran. Christianity, the Bible.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
I have layers of outrage at this topic. (Not because it's a thread, but because it is a topic at all in the world at large)

 

First layer:

 

Literalism imposed onto a figurative canon kills. Kills in actuality; kills in spirit.

 

Second layer:

 

*Selective* literalism does further damage. If you impose the verses used to justify "homosexuality or homosexual intimacy* is a sin, but do not also impose the surrounding verses, you selectively use scritpure.

 

Third layer:

 

Bifurcating Christian scripture from context and culture. I don't believe the scriptures used to support "homosexuality is a sin" say what (many) Christians believe they say. I believe that through the function of tenacity and authority, Christians have steadfastly and resolutely held onto an invalid interpretation.

 

Fourth layer:

 

The collective refusal of literalist Christians to be introspective enough to admit that (what they consider to be sexual sin) is elevated in terms of focus, scrutiny, and judgment over what are other sins.

 

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

 

This issue is one of the defining issues for me and my refusal to identify as "Christian".

 

:iagree: this. in all love, this.

 

and the Samaritan's Imperative. i actually believe that when Jesus asked who was a neighbor to the hated samaritan in the ditch, and then said "go and do likewise".... that he meant it.

 

and one of my tests if something is faithful is if it brings people together or divides them. if it is of God, it gathers people in. if it isn't, it pushes people outside.

 

and one of my other tests is if it would be immediately outrageous, downright ridiculous or deeply offensive if i substituted another word in for a group that has been historically excluded.

 

eg. is it possible to be a Christian and believe "x" is okay? is it possible to be a Christian and believe that women can vote? is it possible to be a Christian and believe that mixed marriage is okay? etc, etc. this one fails that test hands down.

 

this has been a remarkably civil thread so far. what a relief!

blessings,

ann

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
I'm not following. Was this not a rule when God gave it? Or is this just an example of "it says that, but it we don't believe it. People weren't supposed to obey that."

 

Or, "God didn't really say that. The Bible is a bunch of man-made rules." or a variation.

I honestly do not know the answer to your question. :001_smile: I do know there is a whole lot more to Judaic Law than what we get and understand from the OT. As a result, I am not comfortable baseing my judgement of the nature of God soley on the OT.

 

It is my understanding that Judaism has a ton of teachings that are equal to what we would call "scripture," that mainstream Christianity has no real understanding of.

 

Sorry, that I cannot be more help.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
It would seem strangely sadistic, though, in this version of god, that he would make his creation a certain way and then deny them the ability to be loved in a romantic relationship. Same sex attraction is not a thorn in their side and should never be compared with mental illness or addiciton. :glare:

You're assuming that God made them that way. I don't believe He did.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
I honestly do not know the answer to your question. :001_smile: I do know there is a whole lot more to Judaic Law than what we get and understand from the OT. I am not comfortable baseing my judgement of the nature of God soley on the OT.

 

It is my understanding that Judaism has a ton of teachings that are equal to what we would call "scripture," that mainstream Christianity has no real understanding of.

 

Sorry, that I cannot be more help.

 

Fair enough :)

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
You're assuming that God made them that way. I don't believe He did.

 

So. . .those people who are gay. . . Are they lying about being gay? Confused? Sick?

 

Sinful?

 

I'm curious how that happened.

 

Not to mention homosexual animals. Same for them?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
But is it unrepentant if they do not believe and have not yet been convicted that their particular sin is wrong?

Yes. They are not listening to the Holy Spirit speaking to them of their sin, and so yes, they are unrepentant.

 

Are you open to the possibility that your interpretation of scripture might be wrong?

Can't speak for anyone else, but *I* don't believe I have "interpreted" Scripture incorrectly. Homosexuality is not ok.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
accept and believe that homose*uality is ok?

 

IOW, if you have friends that lead this lifestyle do you feel you need to save them from sin? Or can you just be friends with them without any judgement?

 

Absolutely. It's not up to me to judge. I love my non-hetero friends and family members just the way they are and wouldn't dream of trying to change them. By the way, many of them are also Christian and far kinder and more loving (as Christ wanted us to be) than the judgmental Christians I've encountered.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I have an opinion. But until I am perfect, I don't think I really know for sure.

 

I have a close loved one who is gay. Oh, well. He is on his own path - he is religious and trying to figure things out. It is not up to me - I am not God and I do not know what it feels like to be gay either.

 

I will not shun gay people. I don't believe God calls us to do that. Let him who is without sin cast the first stone.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
You're assuming that God made them that way. I don't believe He did.

 

 

It's not an assumption for me to understand biology and genetics.

 

Who would CHOOSE to be so hated and reviled?! :confused:

 

I seriously wish that people would stop with the 'it's a choice' thing. Sometimes when kids grow up hearing that it is a CHOICE they think that when they are 18 they need to figure it out on their own, just in case they aren't sure.

 

Be VERY VERY careful about saying this to your kids.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
It would seem strangely sadistic, though, in this version of god, that he would make his creation a certain way and then deny them the ability to be loved in a romantic relationship. Same sex attraction is not a thorn in their side and should never be compared with mental illness or addiciton. :glare:

 

Then why would a loving God create anyone with ANY physical, mental or emotional disabilities? Is God "denying" people who end up being single for a lifetime when they never end up in a romantic relationship--and why is that a curse rather than just a different kind of blessing? God does not prevent people from having loving relationships. Love expressed as sex is just one small part of the picture. :)

 

This question is something everyone has to work out in their own hearts and minds, hopefully with God's Word and Spirit helping them in understanding. Either God is truth or He's a liar. Either is is good and just or a sadist. I believe He can be GOOD and loving and still place limits on our lives.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
It's not an assumption for me to understand biology and genetics.

Biology alone should make it clear that God intended there to be male and female.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
It's not an assumption for me to understand biology and genetics.

 

Who would CHOOSE to be so hated and reviled?! :confused:

 

I seriously wish that people would stop with the 'it's a choice' thing. Sometimes when kids grow up hearing that it is a CHOICE they think that when they are 18 they need to figure it out on their own, just in case they aren't sure.

 

Be VERY VERY careful about saying this to your kids.

 

:iagree:

 

This has been a very interesting thread.

 

I have no intentions of giving up my friends. And I am getting tired of hearing from certain other friends and family that if I am Christian , I can love them, but not accept their lifestyle choice. HUH??!!??? Sounds contradictory to me.

 

And I cannot even imagine breaking out my Bible and start preaching and quoting scripture to them. They would run in the other direction. And I wouldn't blame them, I would as well.

 

I think that things like this can give Christians a bad name.

 

My theory has been, treat others as you would want to be treated yourself.

 

(not that I am perfect, trust me)

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

This is the age old...

 

"Did God really say...?"

 

Uh, yeah... He did.

 

So... you disagree / don't believe He said it/ don't believe He exists/ believe He is really a "She"/ believe others got it wrong/ it's not fair...whatever?

 

None of that matters. To Him. What we each say here doesn't even matter. Whether we agree with His Word or not His Word stands.

 

Whatever protests people have or create as being valid in their own minds really is a moot point.

 

We are all given the ability to decide for ourselves what we will or will not base our lives upon.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I think that things like this can give Christians a bad name.

 

My theory has been, treat others as you would want to be treated yourself.

 

(not that I am perfect, trust me)

 

 

I wish more people understood this. :glare:

 

I wonder sometimes if more people are turned away by all the things that christians rail against.....than those who are turned TOWARD it, kwim?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

×
×
  • Create New...