My dd is mad at me and I don't blame her.. need math advice...

[Heather in VA]

Well she's not so much mad at me as at the situation. She's very bright in math and has been ahead from the beginning. Last year (6th grade) we did LOF Beginning Algebra and AoPS Introduction to Algebra. She did great. I was ready to move on to Geometry this year (7th grade) but frankly I'm starting to panic about math credits. In our area, things are very competitive in the high schools and nearly everyone takes Algebra before high school. But even the most advanced students don't do more than Algebra and Geometry before high school. If we do Geometry this year, that means Algebra2/Trig in 8th grade, Pre-calc in 9th and Calculus in 10th. Most colleges I've looked at want 4 years of math done during high school, so even though she would have Calculus she wouldn't have enough math. We have a community college but its not really an option since it caters to to main groups - adults going back to school and kids kicked out of high school. Either group would be very difficult for a young girl to be with. Graduating early is also not an option because she's an athlete hoping for a gymnastics scholarship and will need the full 4 years to develop her skills and get ready. Plus - why rush being young?

 

So I decided maybe we need to just do more Algebra. She's not pleased. She has a heavy load this year so I thought having math be pretty easy would be a blessing but she's not convinced. She'll do it if I want her to but maybe it's not the right option.

 

Do you think I can just keep going with math and worry about it when we are done with Calculus? LOF has Linear Algebra and Statistics but I don't want to end up with things on her transcript that schools might think are bogus since some schools are less ready to believe homeschool transcripts than others. I don't worry about my oldest because she's only applying to Christian colleges that are very homeschool friendly. Since this one is looking for an athletic scholarship, it's very unlikely to be a Christian school. (as far as I know only Seattle Pacific is the only Christian college has a competitive gymnastics team) So I have to be more 'main stream' prepared.

 

Sorry to babble so much. Thoughts?

 

Thanks

Heather

[Deniseibase]

AoPS has other classes in Number Theory and Counting and Probability that could easily fill up a 'gap' year. I started the Intro to Number Theory this year with my 6th grader, we switched to the pre-algebra when it came out, but I would think someone who has already done AoPS Intro to Algebra would have no trouble with it, but still be challenged by it. I know a lot of people have done Number Theory & Counting & Probability & it takes about a year - those books are a little smaller than the Algebra ones. If you are worried about them not looking like 'real' classes, have her take the online classes through AoPS & that way you can at least get a letter from the instructor explaining scope and sequence if needed.

[Matryoshka]

Rather than another year of Algebra, why not do AoPS Number Theory and then Probability for a year?

 

Or if you move on now, I wouldn't see any problem using either of those LOF courses you mentioned. Lots of high schools offer a Statistics course.

[regentrude]

I would not, at this point, worry about "running out of math".

First, a question: did she get through ALL of AoPS Intro to Algebra in 6th grade (in addition to the otehr things you mentioned)? Every section? I am impressed!

 

You have plenty of options:

- stretch AoPS geometry course (it is a meaty book and covers more than the traditional high school course) and give credit in 9th

- explore subjects off the beaten path (i.e. off the traditional high school sequence) such as number theory and probability - you could even use the AoPS texts

- take more math after calculus 1. there is calc 2 and 3, differential equations, linear algebra (NOT the same thing as algebra)

Or fill a year with "Special topics in...." and explore fractals, nonlinear systems, all kinds of cool math that never gets a chance in high school.

 

ETA: If you are concerned about colleges believing the higher math classes, your DD can always enroll in a college class for this and have outside validation.

 

I do not see this being a huge problem right now.

Edited September 3, 2011 by regentrude

[Teachin'Mine]

My dd was and is on the same schedule. Don't worry about it now and don't hold her back - it would probably be akin to torture for her. :tongue_smilie: We added in formal geometry in 7th grade to slow down the progression as Saxon includes geometry in its other texts. She can do calculus I and II, working from texts or online, so that would take her through 11th grade if need be. At that point she'll be old enough to probably be fine with taking classes at the cc. There's always statistics to throw in there as well. Too many options to hold back a strong math student. Let her have fun.

[onaclairadeluna]

Don't worry about it now and don't hold her back - it would probably be akin to torture for her. :tongue_smilie:

 

:iagree:

 

DS is 8th grade and completed all four into books to AoPS. I heartily recommend that you explore the other books (NT and P&C). This year DS has asked to study Intermediate P&C and a book on Fields. If you can get a kid really interested in discrete mathematics it becomes really easy to put off Calc for awhile. As it is he'll probably need to do Calc in 10th or 11th grade. (meaning he'll want to). I think this is a good thing. There really is plenty of math out there. And a TON of resources online should you need the help.

 

Regentrude's suggestions are very good. Some kids need to do all of the above.

[Julie in MN]

The biggest question is whether she wants to continue with math all the way through. If she doesn't, if she just wants to get 'er done, then I'd slow down so she has 4 years of math in high school.

 

If she wants to go ahead now plus continue all through high school, then I wouldn't worry so much. There's an advanced program in Minnesota called UMPTYMP where they put kids through two maths a year. My son did Algebra 1 & 2 in 8th grade. There were some 6th graders in that group. It was a very strong selling point when my ds was applying to colleges (even in Colorado they knew about the MN program).

 

Granted, as a homeschooler you won't have a big "name" that folks understand, and you'll have to do a little explaining, but it shouldn't take long -- as long as she continues on up through math & she confirms her math skills by testing well.

 

Julie

[RENEEinVA]

I agree with everyone else. Let her continue to move up the ladder at her own pace. The science and technology high school in our area has many kids starting pre-calculus in 9th grade and they don't seem to run out of math options. Every year there seem to be more and more options for homeschoolers, so I would definitely not worry about it.

[Laurie4b]

If she's good at math, don't hold her back. There are lots of other math options. Statistics is a course that many college-bound high school students take. There is an AP statistics test. There is calculus well beyond calculus I. Unless she needs further grounding, if she wants to move ahead, let her.

[yslek]

If she's good at math, don't hold her back. There are lots of other math options. Statistics is a course that many college-bound high school students take. There is an AP statistics test. There is calculus well beyond calculus I. Unless she needs further grounding, if she wants to move ahead, let her.

 

You could allow her to take some above-calculus-level math through the U of Wisconsin's distance program. That would certainly legitimize her credits for any potential skeptics out there. :)

 

http://distancelearning.wisconsin.edu/search_results.cfm?keywords=mathematics

[Melissa B]

If CC isn't an option, you could always do AP classes the last two years. You'll have to be careful to meet the NCAA requirements for gymnastics. If you want to use LOF or AOPS in 11th and 12th, I would first check and see that the NCAA accepts them for credit.

 

There are other colleges with gymnastics programs that are considered "christian-affiliated." I don't know much about any of them:

 

Gustavus Adolphus

Hamline

Centenary

BYU

 

There may be others as well.

[Julie in MN]

You could allow her to take some above-calculus-level math through the U of Wisconsin's distance program. That would certainly legitimize her credits for any potential skeptics out there. :)

 

Also my oldest son took regular calculus in high school, then got high school credit for regular calculus at the cc, and then took regular calculus at his college. So if she's not ready to go above calc, she could maybe try the same course in different venues.

 

Julie

[kiana]

Why not (as others have said) do the AOPS Discrete Math (number theory/counting) courses in 7th grade, geometry in 8th, then she'd be right on track with the others who took algebra in 7th and geometry in 8th without having to repeat work she already knows?

[Ariston]

If she's good at math, don't hold her back. There are lots of other math options. Statistics is a course that many college-bound high school students take. There is an AP statistics test. There is calculus well beyond calculus I. Unless she needs further grounding, if she wants to move ahead, let her.

 

:iagree: You can always find something more advanced when she gets to that point. I wouldn't slow her down now unless you need to for academic reasons.

Elena

[Musicmom]

:iagree: You can always find something more advanced when she gets to that point. I wouldn't slow her down now unless you need to for academic reasons.

Elena

:iagree:Agreeing also. One good resource for university level math is Stanford EGPY (my ds did Precalculus, AP Calc A,B & C, and Multivariable Differential Calculus through EPGY.) EPGY is well-regarded by top colleges as well. You also might be able to arrange something onine through a 4 year university. In any case, having 4 years of advanced math on her high school transcript should help her in the college admission process.

[Heather in VA]

Thanks everyone. I'll take a look as these options. I am especially interested in the idea of doing Number Theory. I wish Fred had some of these kind of 'extra' books. She far prefers Fred to AoPS although she did fine with AoPS as well. She just found AoPS to be more 'booky' and a bit less challenging. (not a slam on AoPS at all - just the way she felt about it).

 

We start on Tuesday - guess it's time to decide :-)

 

Heather

[Cosmos]

If she wants to go ahead now plus continue all through high school, then I wouldn't worry so much. There's an advanced program in Minnesota called UMPTYMP where they put kids through two maths a year. My son did Algebra 1 & 2 in 8th grade. There were some 6th graders in that group. It was a very strong selling point when my ds was applying to colleges (even in Colorado they knew about the MN program).

 

I used to teach in the UMTYMP program. Great program and great kids! I wish they had something like that where I live now. My ds is on an advanced math track too.

[Teachin'Mine]

Thanks everyone. I'll take a look as these options. I am especially interested in the idea of doing Number Theory. I wish Fred had some of these kind of 'extra' books. She far prefers Fred to AoPS although she did fine with AoPS as well. She just found AoPS to be more 'booky' and a bit less challenging. (not a slam on AoPS at all - just the way she felt about it).

 

We start on Tuesday - guess it's time to decide :-)

 

Heather

 

AOPS is less challenging than Life of Fred??? Could it be that the AOPS book on Intro to Algebra is more a pre-algebra course rather than an algebra 1 course? Everything I've read here suggests that AoPS is far more challenging than the Life of Fred series. We haven't used either, so I may be totally wrong. I'm just confused.

 

ETA: Looked at AoPS's site and it looks like that book is algebra 1. I'm definitely confused.

[obsidian]

AOPS is less challenging than Life of Fred??? Could it be that the AOPS book on Intro to Algebra is more a pre-algebra course rather than an algebra 1 course? Everything I've read here suggests that AoPS is far more challenging than the Life of Fred series. We haven't used either' date=' so I may be totally wrong. I'm just confused.

 

ETA: Looked at AoPS's site and it looks like that book is algebra 1. I'm definitely confused.[/quote']

 

Introduction to Algebra is Algebra 1+half of Algebra 2. OP, did you do the challenge problems? Having used both LoF and AoPS, I know that I would consider AoPS more challenging.

[regentrude]

AOPS is less challenging than Life of Fred??? Could it be that the AOPS book on Intro to Algebra is more a pre-algebra course rather than an algebra 1 course? Everything I've read here suggests that AoPS is far more challenging than the Life of Fred series. We haven't used either' date=' so I may be totally wrong. I'm just confused.

 

ETA: Looked at AoPS's site and it looks like that book is algebra 1. I'm definitely confused.[/quote']

 

AoPS Intro to Algebra is a meaty algebra 1 and half of algebra 2. The challenge problems are definitely challenging.

[regentrude]

She just found AoPS to be more 'booky' and a bit less challenging. (not a slam on AoPS at all - just the way she felt about it).

 

Heather,

now you have me extremely curious:

did she really find AoPS not challenging? AND finished the whole 22 chapters with challenge problems in 6th grade in addition to LOF? You must have a GENIUS at your hands! (said with a lot of admiration - I have mathy kids, but my 6th grader only got through half the book, and the 7th grader took 220 hours to complete everything). We found the challenge problems are really hard. I still remember the two hours it took DD to work out the linear optimization problem about the farmer who has to choose which portion of his fields to plant with which crop...

 

Now, I could totally understand if she prefers LoF - but I am curious about her comment. Could you enlighten me? Thanks.

Edited September 4, 2011 by regentrude

[Aquinas Academy]

Thanks everyone. I'll take a look as these options. I am especially interested in the idea of doing Number Theory. I wish Fred had some of these kind of 'extra' books. She far prefers Fred to AoPS although she did fine with AoPS as well. She just found AoPS to be more 'booky' and a bit less challenging. (not a slam on AoPS at all - just the way she felt about it).

 

We start on Tuesday - guess it's time to decide :-)

 

Heather

She thinks LoF is more challening than AoPS? :confused: My kids love Fred and my daughter who uses AoPS also does Fred for fun. But the Fred books are really easy for her, she only does them because she likes them so much. AoPS is much more challenging, IMO.

[Ailaena]

Under normal circumstances, I would absolutely agree with everyone else about letting your dd work at her own pace, and i would highly recommend a beginning number theory course or foray into mathematical contests while she is still in middle school.

 

However, and I know it is still very early, if there is a serious possibility of a Div 1 NCAA scholarship, know that they will ONLY count the math that was taken during grades 9-12. The good news is that only 3 years are required for NCAA and colleges will count those middle school years to get to the 4 years that most of them require.

 

So the point is: if you can come up with 3 years of maths for high school, during high school, you're good to go!

[MyThreeSons]

While I completely agree with those who say "don't hold her back", I would also caution you to be ready for the possibility that she might hit a wall soon, and simply not be ready to proceed at an advanced pace throughout high school.

 

Geometry requires a different mindset than Algebra. Many students who love math begin to lose that love when they encounter the challenges of Geometry. Others simply aren't mature enough to handle the abstract thinking required in the upper level high school math courses.

 

All of that to say this: while it's okay to look ahead and plan, please don't be rigid about that plan.

Edited September 4, 2011 by MyThreeSons
addition; again, this time to correct grammar

[snowbeltmom]

We found the challenge problems are really hard. I still remember the two hours it took DD to work out the linear optimization problem about the farmer who has to choose which portion of his fields to plant with which crop...

 

 

I discovered AoPS a few months after we began homeschooling. My oldest had completed all the problem sets/tests in Saxon Alg. I, when I told him that I was going to switch him to AoPS rather than start the next Saxon book.

 

At first he didn't understand why he was taking an "Introduction to Algebra" class when he had scored so high in Saxon. That optimization problem answered that question. :lol:

 

I don't think either of us will forget that problem!

[snowbeltmom]

She thinks LoF is more challening than AoPS? :confused: My kids love Fred and my daughter who uses AoPS also does Fred for fun. But the Fred books are really easy for her, she only does them because she likes them so much. AoPS is much more challenging, IMO.

 

This was our experience as well.

[regentrude]

At first he didn't understand why he was taking an "Introduction to Algebra" class when he had scored so high in Saxon. That optimization problem answered that question. :lol:

I don't think either of us will forget that problem!

 

LOL. I'm glad we're not the only ones :)

And DH and I kept murmuring the whole time under out breath: "This would be so easy if we were allowed to use calculus!" That was really an evil problem.

[emubird]

While I completely agree with those who say "don't hold her back", I would also caution you to be ready for the possibility that she might hit a wall soon, and simply not be ready to proceed at an advanced pace throughout high school.

 

Geometry requires a different mindset than Algebra. Many students who love math begin to lose that love when they encounter the challenges of Geometry. Others simply aren't mature enough to handle the abstract thinking required in the upper level high school math courses.

 

All of that to say this: while it's okay to look ahead and plan, please don't be rigid about that plans.

:iagree:

Also, I think the majority of colleges won't care about the 4 years of math requirement if she does calculus in high school. They will see that as "topping out" and not worry about it. You can list the math courses she did in middle school if they are things like algebra, geometry, trig, etc., to show that she actually did this work.

 

For educational purposes, though, I can see why you might not want to have her complete calculus early on and then just ditch math for the last 2-3 years of high school, so for that reason alone, you might look into other math possibilities if she's still racing ahead.

 

But I think you do want to follow her lead. If she starts to struggle and needs to slow down, think of her earliness as a gift -- she can take the time to learn things more thoroughly rather than rushing through and not getting it.

 

Once she finishes calculus, another possibility is to do a year of math intensive physics. This would cement some of the concepts. Or maybe some other sort of math applications course would be interesting.

 

AP Statistics is interesting, and might be useful at some point, but if she's headed into a math intensive field, it may not do her a lot of good. Around here, the kids who take the AP Statistics are the ones who didn't want to struggle with the difficulty of calculus. So it might not look quite as good to colleges, if that's your concern. And my impression is that AP Statistics, while it may be equivalent to a low level college statistics class of the type that some majors require, won't begin to cover the type of material that a statistics major would cover.

 

If you were going to do statistics, you might want to insert it after pre-calc, instead of doing it after calculus. It's a bit easier, so it might be useful for her to do that while her brain gets ready for the more difficult challenge. And then she'd have the more difficult calculus as the last class on her transcript.

 

However, (speaking from experience) it's no big deal if she takes a year off math if something else takes up her time, or takes 2 years to do what "should" be 1 year. Even though you may tear your hair out at the wasted time (just as I did when this happened), one discovers that if the kid is a math whiz, they will likely always be a math whiz. They can just jump back into it later and do fine.

[Cosmos]

I still remember the two hours it took DD to work out the linear optimization problem about the farmer who has to choose which portion of his fields to plant with which crop...

 

At first he didn't understand why he was taking an "Introduction to Algebra" class when he had scored so high in Saxon. That optimization problem answered that question. :lol:

 

I don't think either of us will forget that problem!

 

LOL. I'm glad we're not the only ones :)

And DH and I kept murmuring the whole time under out breath: "This would be so easy if we were allowed to use calculus!" That was really an evil problem.

 

I'm awfully curious about this problem now. Is it available online anywhere? We don't do AoPS, but I'm intrigued. Can you share this infamous problem?

[regentrude]

I'm awfully curious about this problem now. Is it available online anywhere? We don't do AoPS, but I'm intrigued. Can you share this infamous problem?

 

A farmer wants to plant corn and beans. He has 120 acres. Each acre of corn requires 5 lbs of fertilizer, 2lbs of pesticide, and produces $100 worth of corn. Each acre of beans requires 7 lbs of fertilizer, 4 lbs of pesticide, and produces $120 worth of beans. He has 660 lbs fertilizer and 340 lbs pesticide.

What is the largest revenue he can produce?

 

You end up with a system of three linear inequalities, and an expression to maximize. Your have to determine how many acres he should plant in corn and how many in beans.

[Cosmos]

A farmer wants to plant corn and beans. He has 120 acres. Each acre of corn requires 5 lbs of fertilizer, 2lbs of pesticide, and produces $100 worth of corn. Each acre of beans requires 7 lbs of fertilizer, 4 lbs of pesticide, and produces $120 worth of beans. He has 660 lbs fertilizer and 340 lbs pesticide.

What is the largest revenue he can produce?

 

You end up with a system of three linear inequalities, and an expression to maximize. Your have to determine how many acres he should plant in corn and how many in beans.

 

Thanks!

[Deniseibase]

I'm awfully curious about this problem now. Is it available online anywhere? We don't do AoPS, but I'm intrigued. Can you share this infamous problem?

 

I think it's this -

 

"Farmer Fred will plant corn and beans. Fred has 120 acres total he can plant. Each acre of corn requires 5 pounds of fertilizer, and each acre of beans requires 7 pounds of fertilizer. Meanwhile, each acre of corn requires 2 pounds of pesticide, while each acre of beans requires 4 pounds of pesticide. Each acre of corn produces $100 worth of corn, while each acre of beans produces $120 worth of beans. Fred has 660 pounds of fertilizer and 340 pounds of pesticide.

 

a) Let x be the number of acres Fred plants with beans and y be the number of acres he plants with corn. Write inequalities that represent Fred's land, fertilizer, and pesticide restrictions.

 

b) Write an expression that represents Fred's total revenue when he sells the production from x acres of beans and y acres of corn.

 

c) What is the largest amount of revenue Fred can produce?"

 

 

The solution and explanation is about two pages long, so you'll have to work it out yourself!! :)

[Deniseibase]

Sorry to re-post after regentrude did! It took me a LONG time to type it, I kept getting interrupted :(

[snowbeltmom]

LOL. I'm glad we're not the only ones :)

And DH and I kept murmuring the whole time under out breath: "This would be so easy if we were allowed to use calculus!" That was really an evil problem.

 

I had the exact same thought! I have a B.S. in electrical engineering, and I have found many of the AoPS problems challenging.

[snowbeltmom]

A farmer wants to plant corn and beans. He has 120 acres. Each acre of corn requires 5 lbs of fertilizer, 2lbs of pesticide, and produces $100 worth of corn. Each acre of beans requires 7 lbs of fertilizer, 4 lbs of pesticide, and produces $120 worth of beans. He has 660 lbs fertilizer and 340 lbs pesticide.

What is the largest revenue he can produce?

 

You end up with a system of three linear inequalities, and an expression to maximize. Your have to determine how many acres he should plant in corn and how many in beans.

 

This problem is found in Chapter 9 - the "Introduction to Algebra" book has 22 chapters. Two different approaches to solve the problem are given in the book. Each solution requires a full page in the textbook.

 

My Algebra I class (back in the Dark Ages) never approached the level of rigor of AoPS. In case you can't tell, I love AoPS.:D

[regentrude]

I had the exact same thought! I have a B.S. in electrical engineering, and I have found many of the AoPS problems challenging.

We both have PhDs in physics, and that book covered stuff we had never done.

[Cosmos]

Sorry to re-post after regentrude did! It took me a LONG time to type it, I kept getting interrupted :(

 

Thanks for taking the time, both of you.

 

I'm going to save it for a rainy day. I'll have to think a bit about how to approach it without calculus. It does sound like a challenge!

[Julie in MN]

I used to teach in the UMTYMP program. Great program and great kids! I wish they had something like that where I live now. My ds is on an advanced math track too.

 

Sorry to be off topic, but hi! You must be a great math resource for kids on the fast track if you were teaching over there.

[Teachin'Mine]

deleted

 

Since she did LOF first, it all makes sense now. : )

Edited September 4, 2011 by Teachin'Mine

[onaclairadeluna]

Thanks everyone. I'll take a look as these options. I am especially interested in the idea of doing Number Theory. I wish Fred had some of these kind of 'extra' books. She far prefers Fred to AoPS although she did fine with AoPS as well. She just found AoPS to be more 'booky' and a bit less challenging. (not a slam on AoPS at all - just the way she felt about it).

 

 

DS found Number Theory to be less challenging than Algebra. The Geometry Book is more challenging.

[Heather in VA]

Heather,

now you have me extremely curious:

did she really find AoPS not challenging? AND finished the whole 22 chapters with challenge problems in 6th grade in addition to LOF? You must have a GENIUS at your hands! (said with a lot of admiration - I have mathy kids, but my 6th grader only got through half the book, and the 7th grader took 220 hours to complete everything). We found the challenge problems are really hard. I still remember the two hours it took DD to work out the linear optimization problem about the farmer who has to choose which portion of his fields to plant with which crop...

 

Now, I could totally understand if she prefers LoF - but I am curious about her comment. Could you enlighten me? Thanks.

 

Well she did LOF first (starting in 5th) so it wasn't new material when she did AoPS. It's an excellent book and yes - there were some very challenging, but overall she thought LOF was more so - probably because it was done first. I also suspect that much of her opinion is more that she far PREFERS LOF rather than doesn't like AoPS. LOF layout just speaks to her. Basically if LOF makes a book - she wants to do it, if the book is AoPS - she'll do it because I tell her to. :-).

 

That said - yes she is pretty gifted in math. I am a math major and my husband is an electrical engineer and we are both pretty amazed at how naturally it all comes to her. The funny thing is that while she's very good at it, she isn't passionate about it. Most kids I've met (and I went to high school with some serious math genius types) who are gifted in math just love it. She'd rather be creative or physical (she's a competitive gymnast). She's a weird one :-)

 

Heather

[Heather in VA]

While I completely agree with those who say "don't hold her back", I would also caution you to be ready for the possibility that she might hit a wall soon, and simply not be ready to proceed at an advanced pace throughout high school.

 

Geometry requires a different mindset than Algebra. Many students who love math begin to lose that love when they encounter the challenges of Geometry. Others simply aren't mature enough to handle the abstract thinking required in the upper level high school math courses.

 

All of that to say this: while it's okay to look ahead and plan, please don't be rigid about that plans.

 

I am pretty sure about this too. As a math person, I found Geometry to be just awful. I still hate it LOL. I think that regardless of the maturity, Geometry and Algebra require such different ways of thinking that often success in one isn't a guarantee of success in another.

[8filltheheart]

Well she did LOF first (starting in 5th) so it wasn't new material when she did AoPS. It's an excellent book and yes - there were some very challenging, but overall she thought LOF was more so - probably because it was done first. I also suspect that much of her opinion is more that she far PREFERS LOF rather than doesn't like AoPS. LOF layout just speaks to her. Basically if LOF makes a book - she wants to do it, if the book is AoPS - she'll do it because I tell her to. :-).

 

That said - yes she is pretty gifted in math. I am a math major and my husband is an electrical engineer and we are both pretty amazed at how naturally it all comes to her. The funny thing is that while she's very good at it, she isn't passionate about it. Most kids I've met (and I went to high school with some serious math genius types) who are gifted in math just love it. She'd rather be creative or physical (she's a competitive gymnast). She's a weird one :-)

 

Heather

 

I wondered about whether she had done them simultaneously or had done LOF first when I read your earlier description. Your description above fits my experience with my dd that I tried AoPS alg with. B/c she had already completed MUS alg/geo (which is incredibly easy) when she started w/AoPS,she already knew the material as she encountered it. We only went through chpt 3 or 4 in the AoPS book before the end of the school yr (she had finished MUS in early Feb or Mar). She asked me to let her go into Foersters instead of going back to AoPS when we started back this yr b/c she didn't like the way AoPS presented the material.

 

I think the issue w/dd was the fact since she already knew the material covered in those chapters that she saw it as simply repetitive information and in addition she didn't like the way it presented b/c it wasn't as clearly explained as it was already in her head. There was no discovery b/c she already knew it. Looking back, I wish I had sat down and figured out where we could have jumped into the text vs. just going through it from the beginning b/c I think my lack of discerning how to use the text was to her detriment.

 

Oh well, she has been using Foerster for 5 wks and is perfectly happy in it. But.....I have used it many times and we only skim the first 5 chpts and only slow down when we get to new material in chpt 6. Dd is very good in math, but she doesn't like it at all. She actually dislikes it immensely. So, I am not going to push the AoPS issue w/her even though I do know that it covers far more material and at greater depth than what she will get. I am comfortable that Foerster will provide her w/what she needs for whatever she wants to do.

 

It is disappointing though. Her older brother LOVES AoPS so much. (but, perhaps that is why she is biased against it. :tongue_smilie:)

[regentrude]

Well she did LOF first (starting in 5th) so it wasn't new material when she did AoPS. It's an excellent book and yes - there were some very challenging, but overall she thought LOF was more so - probably because it was done first.

 

That makes sense- I guess if you know the material beforehand, the whole discovery approach won't fly and you never get the wonderful feeling of discovering the rule yourself and having the light bulb come on. Which is one of the things that makes AoPS special.

[KAR120C]

If we do Geometry this year, that means Algebra2/Trig in 8th grade, Pre-calc in 9th and Calculus in 10th. Most colleges I've looked at want 4 years of math done during high school, so even though she would have Calculus she wouldn't have enough math.

If you include Geometry, Algebra 2, Precalc, Calculus, and AP Stats, you only have one more year to fill, which could be Discrete Math (AoPS Number Theory and Counting & Probability?) I would probably put it in between Algebra 2 and Precalc myself.... maybe with AP Stats too, before Precalc. Or, you could do Geometry, Algebra 2, AP Stats, Precalc, Calc, and Multivariate Calc. All perfectly normal and within the range of what the NCAA is likely to recognize, and only one college class (which you could do online if necessary).

[emubird]

If you include Geometry, Algebra 2, Precalc, Calculus, and AP Stats, you only have one more year to fill, which could be Discrete Math (AoPS Number Theory and Counting & Probability?) I would probably put it in between Algebra 2 and Precalc myself.... maybe with AP Stats too, before Precalc. Or, you could do Geometry, Algebra 2, AP Stats, Precalc, Calc, and Multivariate Calc. All perfectly normal and within the range of what the NCAA is likely to recognize, and only one college class (which you could do online if necessary).

 

High schoolers generally take 2 years in Calculus without hitting multivariate, so it may not even be an issue. I know the College Board would prefer that the AP BC class only take a year, with no AB beforehand (so they say), but the reality of the situation is that many kids do AB one year and then BC the next.

[Matryoshka]

High schoolers generally take 2 years in Calculus without hitting multivariate, so it may not even be an issue. I know the College Board would prefer that the AP BC class only take a year, with no AB beforehand (so they say), but the reality of the situation is that many kids do AB one year and then BC the next.

 

What exactly is the difference between AB/BC Calculus? I had been wondering about that - I'd assumed that one came before the other (that the other was maybe equivalent to the 2nd semester of college calc, and the first was equivalent to 1st semester?), and that you had to have taken the first to understand the second.

 

But then most kids wouldn't have time to take both classes in high school if they started with Geometry in 9th (Geo/AlgII&Trig/Precalc/Calc... only one year for that).

 

Please someone enlighten me on what this all means! My high school had just one Calculus class, and it was called... Calculus - no A's, B's or C's.

[wapiti]

What exactly is the difference between AB/BC Calculus? I had been wondering about that - I'd assumed that one came before the other (that the other was maybe equivalent to the 2nd semester of college calc, and the first was equivalent to 1st semester?), and that you had to have taken the first to understand the second.

 

But then most kids wouldn't have time to take both classes in high school if they started with Geometry in 9th (Geo/AlgII&Trig/Precalc/Calc... only one year for that).

 

Please someone enlighten me on what this all means! My high school had just one Calculus class, and it was called... Calculus - no A's, B's or C's.

 

They are AP designations. My understanding is that the material covered in AB is covered during the first half of BC. I don't believe one is supposed to take both. But AB takes a school year, so it would seem that BC moves a whole lot faster.

 

(I was told by an admissions person at a highly selective school that a student needs calc BC to be competitive for admissions there.)

[Matryoshka]

They are AP designations. My understanding is that the material covered in AB is covered during the first half of BC. I don't believe one is supposed to take both. But AB takes a school year, so it would seem that BC moves a whole lot faster.

 

(I was told by an admissions person at a highly selective school that a student needs calc BC to be competitive for admissions there.)

 

It sounds like BC just moves at the college pace, then, covering in a semester what a high school course covers in a year? My high school course definitely only covered what was in my 1st semester college calculus class.

[Teachin'Mine]

AB tests material typically covered in one semester - in a Calculus I class.

 

BC tests material typically covered in two semesters in college - Calculus I and II. When taking this test, a break-out score is given for the AB material in addition to the score for the BC.

 

A typical high school calculus course usually doesn't cover enough to take the BC test - this is often done in 3 or 4 semesters. With the OP's student's path in math, she should have time for both Calculus I and II and possibly more.