Gardisil...not just for girls....

[bettyandbob]

She is my sister and my answer to her was this,"Maybe you should consider this before having so many sexual partners." I know that sounds callous but it's true. Sex has become so common and thoughtless it is sickening.

 

 

I don't think it takes multiple partners. Only one. One who is in a position to pass this on. Just b/c some has contracted something sexually does not mean he/she is promiscuous or otherwise thoughtless in his/her sexual decision making.

 

I've never had an STD. I don't know if my dc will be vaccinated. Ds is headed to college in a year so I'll make the decision soon. I want to do a little more research.

[Mrs Mungo]

Condoms don't prevent HPV.

 

:iagree: from the CDC:

For those who choose to be sexually active, condoms may lower the risk of HPV. To be most effective, they should be used with every sex act, from start to finish. Condoms may also lower the risk of developing HPV-related diseases, such as genital warts and cervical cancer. But HPV can infect areas that are not covered by a condom - so condoms may not fully protect against HPV.

[Jryanbass]

 

As for the rest of vaccinations...there's actually a movement here among doctors to not allow families to have our state's medicaid if they refuse (ie there's no real medical reason to avoid it) to vaccinate their kids. The guy who first "linked" MMR with autism no longer has a medical license because his study was so un-scientific. Hundreds (thousands?) of studies have been done since his that have disproven his "theory". Again, to each his own, but the data really doesn't support that connection in the least. We KNOW, though, that some kids die of the chicken pox (adults who contract it, too). Some kids and adults die of measles. They die of pertussis. It's not super common, and I had both pertussis and varicella as a kid and thankfully made it through just fine (and have no scars), but I was lucky. My sister has pockmarks all over her face, and again, people do die of these diseases. Again, this is a personal choice, and you gotta do what you gotta do. I just hope everyone considers the data before making that choice.

.

 

This is SAD, and SUPER scary. Why would the government take away a child's access to medical care because their parents are making an educated decision NOT to have them vaccinated? Most parents who choose not to vaccinate, or to delay, are pretty well educated on the subject. Its bad enough some states have vaccine registries hat you CAN'T opt out of (HELLLLOOO Alabama!???) Nothing better than being harrassed by the health dept because your SIX MONTH OLD is missing a few shots. They called me AT HOME wondering why he was missing his Hep B shot. And we had all of his vaccines done at our doctors office, with PRIVATE insurance. :001_huh:

[msjones]

What is the reason it is offered to children at age 12? Is it just as effective for older people?

[dansamy]

This is SAD, and SUPER scary. Why would the government take away a child's access to medical care because their parents are making an educated decision NOT to have them vaccinated? Most parents who choose not to vaccinate, or to delay, are pretty well educated on the subject. Its bad enough some states have vaccine registries hat you CAN'T opt out of (HELLLLOOO Alabama!???) Nothing better than being harrassed by the health dept because your SIX MONTH OLD is missing a few shots. They called me AT HOME wondering why he was missing his Hep B shot. And we had all of his vaccines done at our doctors office, with PRIVATE insurance. :001_huh:

 

Alabama has missed out on some large corporations building new operations in our state due to several factors, including infant mortality rates, teen pregnancy rates and childhood disease rates. I agree that the registries are draconian and not the right response, but the state is trying to move the overall outlook of a child born in Alabama forward. In a bassackward kind of way. ;)

[dansamy]

What is the reason it is offered to children at age 12? Is it just as effective for older people?

 

12 year olds are having sex. In the area where we live, oral sex on the school bus is not a rare & shocking event.

[regentrude]

What is the reason it is offered to children at age 12? Is it just as effective for older people?

 

The reason is that they want to vaccinate before the young person becomes se*ually active. Which is often the case in middle school.

As far as I understand, it works as well for older people - BUT if they already are infected, the vaccine is useless.

 

Problems I have read about are that it seems not to have been tested thoroughly in young kids, and nobody seems to know for how long it protects. So, one may be vaccinating a ten year old with a vaccine that might not be effective for longer than five years... makes not a lot of sense to me.

[sweetbasil]

I don't have time to read through all the pages right now (so I don't know if this was already posted), but this article affirmed all of the conclusions I'd already come to through my own research:

Gardasil Researcher Drops A Bombshell

 

http://open.salon.com/blog/gordon_wagner/2009/10/27/gardasil_researcher_drops_a_bombshell/comment

 

Harper: Controversal Drug Will Do Little To Reduce Cervical Cancer Rates

By Susan Brinkmann, For The Bulletin

Sunday, October 25, 2009

 

Dr. Diane Harper, lead researcher in the development of two human papilloma virus vaccines, Gardasil and Cervarix, said the controversial drugs will do little to reduce cervical cancer rates and, even though they’re being recommended for girls as young as nine, there have been no efficacy trials in children under the age of 15.

 

Dr. Harper, director of the Gynecologic Cancer Prevention Research Group at the University of Missouri, made these remarks during an address at the 4th International Public Conference on Vaccination which took place in Reston, Virginia on Oct. 2-4. Although her talk was intended to promote the vaccine, participants said they came away convinced the vaccine should not be received.

 

“I came away from the talk with the perception that the risk of adverse side effects is so much greater than the risk of cervical cancer, I couldn’t help but question why we need the vaccine at all,†said Joan Robinson, Assistant Editor at the Population Research Institute.

 

Dr. Harper began her remarks by explaining that 70 percent of all HPV infections resolve themselves without treatment within a year. Within two years, the number climbs to 90 percent. Of the remaining 10 percent of HPV infections, only half will develop into cervical cancer, which leaves little need for the vaccine.

 

She went on to surprise the audience by stating that the incidence of cervical cancer in the U.S. is already so low that “even if we get the vaccine and continue PAP screening, we will not lower the rate of cervical cancer in the US.â€

 

There will be no decrease in cervical cancer until at least 70 percent of the population is vaccinated, and even then, the decrease will be minimal.

 

Apparently, conventional treatment and preventative measures are already cutting the cervical cancer rate by four percent a year. At this rate, in 60 years, there will be a 91.4 percent decline just with current treatment. Even if 70 percent of women get the shot and required boosters over the same time period, which is highly unlikely, Harper says Gardasil still could not claim to do as much as traditional care is already doing.

 

Dr. Harper, who also serves as a consultant to the World Health Organization, further undercut the case for mass vaccination by saying that “four out of five women with cervical cancer are in developing countries.â€

 

Ms. Robinson said she could not help but wonder, “If this is the case, then why vaccinate at all? But from the murmurs of the doctors in the audience, it was apparent that the same thought was occurring to them.â€

 

However, at this point, Dr. Harper dropped an even bigger bombshell on the audience when she announced that, “There have been no efficacy trials in girls under 15 years.â€

 

Merck, the manufacturer of Gardasil, studied only a small group of girls under 16 who had been vaccinated, but did not follow them long enough to conclude sufficient presence of effective HPV antibodies.

 

This is not the first time Dr. Harper revealed the fact that Merck never tested Gardasil for safety in young girls. During a 2007 interview with KPC News.com, she said giving the vaccine to girls as young as 11 years-old “is a great big public health experiment.â€

 

At the time, which was at the height of Merck’s controversial drive to have the vaccine mandated in schools, Dr. Harper remained steadfastly opposed to the idea and said she had been trying for months to convince major television and print media about her concerns, “but no one will print it.â€

 

“It is silly to mandate vaccination of 11 to 12 year old girls,†she said at the time. “There also is not enough evidence gathered on side effects to know that safety is not an issue.â€

 

When asked why she was speaking out, she said: “I want to be able to sleep with myself when I go to bed at night.â€

 

Since the drug’s introduction in 2006, the public has been learning many of these facts the hard way. To date, 15,037 girls have officially reported adverse side effects from Gardasil to the Vaccine Adverse Event Reporting System (VAERS). These adverse reactions include Guilliane Barre, lupus, seizures, paralysis, blood clots, brain inflammation and many others. The CDC acknowledges that there have been 44 reported deaths.

 

Dr. Harper also participated in the research on Glaxo-Smith-Kline’s version of the drug, Cervarix, currently in use in the UK but not yet approved here. Since the government began administering the vaccine to school-aged girls last year, more than 2,000 patients reported some kind of adverse reaction including nausea, dizziness, blurred vision, convulsions, seizures and hyperventilation. Several reported multiple reactions, with 4,602 suspected side-effects recorded in total. The most tragic case involved a 14 year-old girl who dropped dead in the corridor of her school an hour after receiving the vaccination.

 

The outspoken researcher also weighed in last month on a report published in the Journal of the American Medical Association that raised questions about the safety of the vaccine, saying bluntly: "The rate of serious adverse events is greater than the incidence rate of cervical cancer."

 

Ms. Robinson said she respects Dr. Harper’s candor. “I think she’s a scientist, a researcher, and she’s genuine enough a scientist to be open about the risks. I respect that in her.â€

 

However, she failed to make the case for Gardasil. “For me, it was hard to resist the conclusion that Gardasil does almost nothing for the health of American women.â€

[Deniseibase]

If you look, there are not a lot of clinical trials done on healthy children for ANY drug, because of the ethical issues involved with consent, and other regulations that make clinical trials on children more difficult to get FDA approval for than trials on adults. It's actually kind of a problem, because many drugs act differently in children than they do in adults (remember children's aspirin? If you are much younger than me you might not!). If you start using this as criteria to reject drugs for children, then be prepared to give up about 60% of drugs currently given to kids. http://www.pkids.org/files/pdf/phr/07-01clinicaltrials.pdf

 

My best friend in high school lost her ability to have children due to cervical cancer (not promiscuous so don't point fingers). My dd is 11 & she will be getting Gardasil at her next checkup.

[cin]

OK, am I truly the only one who, when reading the thread title, thought Boys Can Get Cervical Cancer????? :001_huh:

 

FTR, that was my initial thought, I understand the reasoning behind it. Also thought a bit of humor wouldn't hurt.

[Rivka]

What is the reason it is offered to children at age 12? Is it just as effective for older people?

 

They set the vaccination age young to try to catch everyone before they are exposed to the virus, and I think also because they're trying to take it out of the context of sexual activity in people's minds. If people start thinking of the HPV vaccine as "something that's needed to prevent an STD," the vaccination campaign will fail.

 

Most people, regardless of their level of sexual activity, don't consider themselves to be at risk for contracting an STD. (It's crazy, but there you go.) People think they know how to choose a "clean" partner, or think that you can only get an STD if you have a lot of sexual partners, or that you can only get an STD from sex with a relative stranger. Those are the dumb reasons - people who are making major errors in logic about their STD risk.

 

But smart people can also underestimate their risk of HPV. They might believe that they're not at risk because they always use condoms, because they get regularly screened for STDs and require screening from their partners too, or because they are committed to being a virgin until marriage. But condoms don't offer full protection against HPV. It's not included in a standard battery of STD tests. And plenty of women who were virgins on their wedding night have been subsequently infected by their husbands, who weren't. The possibility of rape must also be considered.

 

About 90% of sexually experienced adults, even monogamously married ones, wind up exposed to HPV. What percentage of them do you think would describe themselves as being "at risk for an STD?" My experience, from working in the public health and health psychology fields, suggests that the number would be well under 25%.

 

So Gardasil isn't marketed or presented to the public as an STD vaccine, because from a public health standpoint it's a bad idea for people to be thinking about the HPV vaccine as something that they only need if they have a risky sex life.

 

Also, think about the ramifications of recommending vaccination "before sexual activity," rather than having a standard age for vaccination somewhere in early puberty. How many teenage girls do you think would go to their parents and say "I think I'm ready to get the HPV shot now"? How many girls wind up having sex when they didn't plan to, or didn't want to? And once they've been exposed to HPV, the vaccine won't help them.

[StephanieZ]

I didn't find the word scary on this page.

 

Me neither. All my dc will receive these vaccines before they move out of home to college, etc. Well before they are s@xually active, for sure. It is a cancer vaccine. This is a good thing. Would folks similarly avoid an HIV vaccine if it were available?

 

I came very close to having cervical cancer. I could have died and left a passel of young kids motherless, especially since the inital dx occurred when i was newly pg with #3, and my decision to delay further tx to protect the baby put me at higher risk. Sure, I could have avoided all that if I'd made different chocies in my single days, but, well, I don't believe the cost of premarital s@x should be death. (I am healthy, cancer free, and just fine now, Fwiw.)

 

So, I am happy about the vaccine. Very happy.

Edited September 1, 2011 by StephanieZ

[Dina in Oklahoma]

OOPS, computer froze so I reposted--ended up with a double post !

Edited August 31, 2011 by Dina in Oklahoma

[Orthodox6]

In that nobody can force me to inflict this unnecessary vaccine on my children, I can "circular file" the information. If any absurd law comes on the books, I just invoke the religious exemption clause.

[Parker Martin]

When asked why she was speaking out, she said: “I want to be able to sleep with myself when I go to bed at night.â€

 

Well, one cannot possibly get HPV from that, I suppose.

[Dina in Oklahoma]

Is it? To me not, honestly.

I should preface this by saying that I am pro-vaccines in general and that I have given my kids all the recommended vaccines so far - except for THIS one! I am holding off until it is better studied. Somehow the huge advertisement campaigns do not make me feel more confident.

 

68 kids have died following the vaccine, some girls developed ALS.

All that for a vaccine that is effective against some viruses responsible for a cancer that is easily detected in regular screening and has a relatively good prognosis if caught early.

 

 

:iagree: I am in the same camp!

[TravelingChris]

Rivka, where do you have your statistics about 90% of adults who have had relations have HPV? I don't think I am such a strange person but I am in the 10% and yes, I do know since I have been tested twice for it and don't have it. (I have had questionable paps three times and never were they due to HPV).

 

It realy is very simple to figure for my older dd. She has a definite risk of getting a blood clot with this. Just like she can't go on bc pills and I can't use any hormone replacement therapy, neither she nor I should get this vaccine in my opinion. There may be some other vaccine out there with a blood clot risk but I haven't run into it.

 

For all you who are wavering- higher risk of blood clots is not just for the obese or elderly. About 5% of the European Ancestry Americans have Factor V Leiden, the same factor that is causing my clots. The risk is smaller for Hispanics (probably due to many having Amerind heritage) and AA and almost non-existent for totally Asian people. But if your family members have a history of blood clots, DVTs, or pulmonary embolisms, I would think about whether the risk of a blood clot now is worth the questionable prevention of cancer much later. If one has pap smears regularly, I think the risk of the cancer being deadly is fairly minimal. On the other hand, clots have about a 5% chance of death. Oh and remember, if your child ends up with a clot, a doctor may miss it because unless you know that your child is at risk for clots, your doctor would probably not think of it. After all, even for my dd who does have this, she doesn't have hardly any risk at her age (18) as long as she doesn't have surgery, isn't pregnant, and doesn't break a leg. I am not going to add to her risk with a shot that even some researchers believe doesn't add almost anything to the safety of her.

[Puma Mom]

I am cautiously pro-vaccine.

I will wait on this one until they have more long term data.

Ditto.

[SweetBean]

Interestingly, our pediatrician is VERY pro-vaccine, and even tries to convince me every year to have my kids get the flu vaccine. We've never gotten the flu vaccine, but otherwise we follow the usual vaccine schedule. When it came to the HPV vaccine, he just asked if we wanted it. When I said, "No." He didn't even try to convince me.

[ThatCyndiGirl]

I get all my kids vaccinated on the "normal" schedule but we will not be getting this yet. Oddly, my friends(nurse married to a family practice Dr) haven't gotten this for their own kids. They don't jump on or suggest newer vaccines until they see what the REAL effects are. I don't trust data or what drug companies say. They are greedy and I truly believe they manipulate and distort data. I want to see more info and let it run for a few more years. Yes HPV may kill more than 38 people per year but what were the circumstances? Were they patients who were undergoing regularly scheduled exams? My sister had HPV and had to have a laser treatment done. She is my sister and my answer to her was this,"Maybe you should consider this before having so many sexual partners." I know that sounds callous but it's true. Sex has become so common and thoughtless it is sickening. Now a vaccine for discretion or flat out stupidity would better serve the public:tongue_smilie:

I am sick of drug companies and their BS. Ciprodex in a TINY little bottle for my kids swimmers ear AFTER insurance was $65!!! Why was that tiny bottle $160 before insurance? Are you kidding me?

 

Rant over.....my coffee is just kicking in.

 

 

It SOUNDS callous because it IS callous, as well as hurtful, rude and hateful. I canNOT for the life of me imagine talking to someone in such a manner, particularly someone I cared for.

 

There is a time for 'I told ya so', there is a time for 'maybe this means you should change your lifestyle'.....and there is a time for compassion, to just love without judgment. :grouphug:

[Rivka]

Rivka, where do you have your statistics about 90% of adults who have had relations have HPV? I don't think I am such a strange person but I am in the 10% and yes, I do know since I have been tested twice for it and don't have it. (I have had questionable paps three times and never were they due to HPV).

 

Surfing for specific data, I find varying figures, but it looks like the rate is actually closer to 80%:

 

Cumulative lifetime prevalence ~80%:

http://www.eurogin.com/k/2006/HPV_Vaccines.pdf

 

Cumulative lifetime prevalence 80%, but 40% of women will acquire HPV within 24 months of sexual initiation:

http://www.advisorybodies.doh.gov.uk/jcvi/foi-HPVsubgrouppapers0707-ACIPepidemiology.pdf

 

Lifetime risk 70-80% and 10% will develop precancerous lesions:

http://www.medscape.com/viewarticle/484034_3

 

Lifetime risk 75-80%:

http://www.arhp.org/publications-and-resources/clinical-proceedings/Managing-HPV/Impact

[TravelingChris]

Well Rivka, I couldn't find the 80% figure in the first study but the second study said 50% of sexually active. That is a long way from 90% or even 80%.

 

Although obviously your risk rises with sexual partners, so does your risk rise with how many partners your partner has had. I knew someone who got cervical cancer because of a very short marriage (4 months) which was so short because she found out her spouse was unfaithful. I truly do know the risks but at least in the case of my older dd, the risk of blood clot is more of an immediate risk and more of a dangerous risk.

[TravelingChris]

Oh and like regentrude and a number of others here, I am pro- vaccination in general. Just not this one for number one daughter and not now for number two while the vaccine is still relatively new and the benefit to harm ratio is not yet fully recognizable.

[Rivka]

Surfing for specific data, I find varying figures, but it looks like the rate is actually closer to 80%:

 

Cumulative lifetime prevalence ~80%:

http://www.eurogin.com/k/2006/HPV_Vaccines.pdf

 

Cumulative lifetime prevalence 80%, but 40% of women will acquire HPV within 24 months of sexual initiation:

http://www.advisorybodies.doh.gov.uk/jcvi/foi-HPVsubgrouppapers0707-ACIPepidemiology.pdf

 

Lifetime risk 70-80% and 10% will develop precancerous lesions:

http://www.medscape.com/viewarticle/484034_3

 

Lifetime risk 75-80%:

http://www.arhp.org/publications-and-resources/clinical-proceedings/Managing-HPV/Impact

 

Well Rivka, I couldn't find the 80% figure in the first study but the second study said 50% of sexually active. That is a long way from 90% or even 80%.

 

Read further in to the second link. The 50% figure is for men and women both, keeping in mind that screening rates for men are very low. Slide #27 shows that for women, at 4 years after sexual initiation, cumulative incidence is already 50%. Slide #29 shows >80% lifetime cumulative incidence by age 50 in women.

 

In the first link, the 80% figure comes on the second page, 2nd paragraph:

 

Beyond puberty, the prevalence of high

risk HPV types peaks at 30–50% for young women in their

second and third decades of life. The prevalence of high risk

HPV declines to 15% for women 26–30 years of age, to 10% for

women 31–35 and to an underlying population prevalence of

5–15% during the fourth, fifth and sixth decades of life.

Thereafter, the prevalence increases to peaks up to 30% for

women older than 50 years completing the U shaped age specific

HPV prevalence curve, observed in most but not all countries,

with a cumulative lifetime prevalence rate of about 80%.

 

There's a lot of data to sift through on this topic. You've got to separate out incidence vs. prevalence rates, and exposure vs. chronic infection. Most of the time, women's bodies will eventually clear out the virus, so someone may test positive for HPV at one point and then not test positive later. Or someone may never test positive for active HPV, but blood tests for antibodies will show that she was exposed in the past.

 

Although obviously your risk rises with sexual partners, so does your risk rise with how many partners your partner has had. I knew someone who got cervical cancer because of a very short marriage (4 months) which was so short because she found out her spouse was unfaithful.

 

Right. But although risk does rise with the number of sexual partners, HPV is so common in the population that high levels of experience aren't necessary to encounter the virus. For example, a young woman who is a virgin and marries a young man who had one previous sexual partner could easily contract HPV.

 

I truly do know the risks but at least in the case of my older dd, the risk of blood clot is more of an immediate risk and more of a dangerous risk.

 

I can't speak to that issue at all.

[whitestavern]

I'll admit I haven't spent a whole lot of time researching all this, but for now I'm declining the vaccine for my dd. I just don't want her to be a guinea pig for something this new. I'll certainly talk to her about the risks of being sexually active (obviously there are many others besides cervical cancer) as I discuss with her anything else that has risks associated with it. Interesting note though:

 

From the CDC website:

 

"Most people with HPV do not develop symptoms or health problems from it. In 90% of cases, the body’s immune system clears HPV naturally within two years."

 

Website link: http://www.cdc.gov/std/HPV/STDFact-HPV.htm

[elizabeth]

Condoms don't prevent HPV.

 

Wrong. IF you expose your mouth or anal area to HPV by not practicing safe sex then it is transmissible.

I think I will go with the CDC on this one.

http://www.cdc.gov/hpv/Prevention.html

[ThreeBlessings]

I know a teenaged girl who has had MULTIPLE health issues after having this vaccine. Her family and various doctors are pretty sure this is what caused it. She was perfectly healthy and into sports before this. It's been a long, hard road for her.

 

I also know I teenaged girl who was previously healthy that suffered health problems after this vaccine and her doctor and family believe the vaccine caused them.

[kalanamak]

Wrong. IF you expose your mouth or anal area to HPV by not practicing safe sex then it is transmissible.

I think I will go with the CDC on this one.

http://www.cdc.gov/hpv/Prevention.html

 

I always took the way they throw "may" around, in relation to the data, to be an attempt to not discourage condom use, as they do help with other things. I promise you hours and hours of committee work went into that statement and the word "may".

[kalanamak]

I just don't want her to be a guinea pig for something this new.

 

Out of sincere curiosity, how many millions of doses given or how many years before you no longer consider the receiver a guinea pig?

[StephanieZ]

From this website: http://www.cancer.gov/cancertopics/types/cervical

 

Definition of cervical cancer: Cancer that forms in tissues of the cervix (the organ connecting the uterus and vagina). It is usually a slow-growing cancer that may not have symptoms but can be found with regular Pap tests (a procedure in which cells are scraped from the cervix and looked at under a microscope). Cervical cancer is almost always caused by human papillomavirus (HPV) infection.

 

Estimated new cases and deaths from cervical (uterine cervix) cancer in the United States in 2011:

 

New cases: 12,710

 

Deaths: 4,290

 

+++++++++++++++++++

 

 

 

NOTE: These stats don't include the other HPV related cancers (anal, oral, etc.)

[ccmom]

My pediatrician gave it to my sons without telling me. He did not want me to argue about it or question it. My kids are fully immunized, but after he gave that shot to them, I was concerned because I don't know anything about it. I was remembering when the Rotovirus vaccine came out, many children suffered from intestinal blockages. This makes me wonder about the possible risks with this one.

 

Some girls are believed to have gotten ALS as a result of this vaccine??? How scary!!

 

I don't like the way my doctor is pushing this vaccine without even giving me a chance to question it or understand it. They have nagged me about coming back in for their second and third dose, but I do not plan to do so.

Edited September 1, 2011 by ccmom
grammar

[WishboneDawn]

My pediatrician gave it to my sons without telling me. He did not want me to argue about it or question it. My kids are fully immunized, but after he gave that shot to them, I was concerned because I don't know anything about it. I was remembering when the Rotovirus vaccine came out, many children suffered from intestinal blockages. This makes me wonder about the possible risks with this one.

 

Some girls are believed to have gotten ALS as a result of this vaccine??? How scary!!

 

I don't like the way my doctor is pushing this vaccine without even giving me a chance to question it or understand it. They have nagged me about coming back in for their second and third dose, but I do not plan to do so.

 

This is an issue with your doctor, not the vaccine. I have no problem with the vaccine but if my doctor had done that I'd be reporting him/her and looking for a new doctor.

[Jennifer3141]

This is an issue with your doctor, not the vaccine. I have no problem with the vaccine but if my doctor had done that I'd be reporting him/her and looking for a new doctor.

 

:iagree: again! :D

 

CC, what the what? Where do you live where doctors have zero concern for liability?? Or has your doctor escaped from a mental institution???

[WishboneDawn]

:iagree: again! :D

 

You're just following me around now looking for bits of my wisdom to agree with. :D

[JulieH]

My pediatrician gave it to my sons without telling me. He did not want me to argue about it or question it. My kids are fully immunized, but after he gave that shot to them, I was concerned because I don't know anything about it. I was remembering when the Rotovirus vaccine came out, many children suffered from intestinal blockages. This makes me wonder about the possible risks with this one.

 

Some girls are believed to have gotten ALS as a result of this vaccine??? How scary!!

 

I don't like the way my doctor is pushing this vaccine without even giving me a chance to question it or understand it. They have nagged me about coming back in for their second and third dose, but I do not plan to do so.

 

are your sons still minors??? They can NOT give ANY vaccine to your child before you sign for it. I'd be ALL over that like a wet suit!

[sweetbasil]

From this website: http://www.cancer.gov/cancertopics/types/cervical

 

Definition of cervical cancer: Cancer that forms in tissues of the cervix (the organ connecting the uterus and vagina). It is usually a slow-growing cancer that may not have symptoms but can be found with regular Pap tests (a procedure in which cells are scraped from the cervix and looked at under a microscope). Cervical cancer is almost always caused by human papillomavirus (HPV) infection.

 

Estimated new cases and deaths from cervical (uterine cervix) cancer in the United States in 2011:

 

New cases: 12,710

 

Deaths: 4,290

 

 

Just want to note that of the fewer than 5K that die every year, over 50% have had NO previous Pap. Of the remaining >50%, I couldn't find any stats.... so there's no way to tell if if it's been 1 year or 20. It's also one of the few cancers that shows a steadily declining death rate (long before Gardasil was introduced).

Edited September 1, 2011 by sweetbasil

[Jennifer3141]

You're just following me around now looking for bits of my wisdom to agree with. :D

 

I am!! Now PM me your cell phone so I can stalk you. :D

[CAMom]

For all you who are wavering- higher risk of blood clots is not just for the obese or elderly. About 5% of the European Ancestry Americans have Factor V Leiden, the same factor that is causing my clots.

 

Yep. My husband and kids have this clotting disorder.

[WishboneDawn]

I am!! Now PM me your cell phone so I can stalk you. :D

 

Won't do you any good. I can never remember to charge the darn thing!

[Jennifer3141]

Won't do you any good. I can never remember to charge the darn thing!

 

 

Well, I still don't have one so at least I won't be texting you too much. :D

[ccmom]

are your sons still minors??? They can NOT give ANY vaccine to your child before you sign for it. I'd be ALL over that like a wet suit!

 

Yes, I remember having to sign for immunizations with our previous physicians. They had physicals this year and that is when the doctor just immunized them, with no warning whatsoever. I really bothered me and when I asked about it, he was defensive and basically gave me a quick answer that there are no risks whatsoever. That is never the case, but for some reason he clearly is on some kind of mission. I had decided to change pediatricians after that experience.

 

Where can I find information about the requirement for physicians to get my authorization for each immunization? I would like to follow up on this.

[msjones]

They set the vaccination age young to try to catch everyone before they are exposed to the virus, and I think also because they're trying to take it out of the context of sexual activity in people's minds. If people start thinking of the HPV vaccine as "something that's needed to prevent an STD," the vaccination campaign will fail.

 

Most people, regardless of their level of sexual activity, don't consider themselves to be at risk for contracting an STD. (It's crazy, but there you go.) People think they know how to choose a "clean" partner, or think that you can only get an STD if you have a lot of sexual partners, or that you can only get an STD from sex with a relative stranger. Those are the dumb reasons - people who are making major errors in logic about their STD risk.

 

But smart people can also underestimate their risk of HPV. They might believe that they're not at risk because they always use condoms, because they get regularly screened for STDs and require screening from their partners too, or because they are committed to being a virgin until marriage. But condoms don't offer full protection against HPV. It's not included in a standard battery of STD tests. And plenty of women who were virgins on their wedding night have been subsequently infected by their husbands, who weren't. The possibility of rape must also be considered.

 

About 90% of sexually experienced adults, even monogamously married ones, wind up exposed to HPV. What percentage of them do you think would describe themselves as being "at risk for an STD?" My experience, from working in the public health and health psychology fields, suggests that the number would be well under 25%.

 

So Gardasil isn't marketed or presented to the public as an STD vaccine, because from a public health standpoint it's a bad idea for people to be thinking about the HPV vaccine as something that they only need if they have a risky sex life.

 

Also, think about the ramifications of recommending vaccination "before sexual activity," rather than having a standard age for vaccination somewhere in early puberty. How many teenage girls do you think would go to their parents and say "I think I'm ready to get the HPV shot now"? How many girls wind up having sex when they didn't plan to, or didn't want to? And once they've been exposed to HPV, the vaccine won't help them.

 

Such a helpful reply! Many thanks.

I do plan on my boys having this vaccine, but, if it will be just as effective given at age 14 (or 15 or 16 etc) as age 12, I don't see any rush.

[RanchGirl]

I am sick of drug companies and their BS. Ciprodex in a TINY little bottle for my kids swimmers ear AFTER insurance was $65!!! Why was that tiny bottle $160 before insurance? Are you kidding me?

Delaney, next time your kids have swimmers ear, try vinegar. Just have kid lay head down, fill ear canal with vinegar, wait 1 minute and let it drip out onto a towel. Then do it with the other ear. Also works to prevent swimmers ear as well.

 

We solved a case of my son's swimmers ear once this way (on a Caribbean island with no medical care, and had to fly the next day so I was desparate for a solution!) Ever since then, I just use it each night if the kids have been swimming that day. I use it on myself and dh too. My son used to get swimmers ear a couple times a year, but hasn't had it at all in the 3 years since we started doing the vinegar.

[whitestavern]

Out of sincere curiosity, how many millions of doses given or how many years before you no longer consider the receiver a guinea pig?

 

Fair question, but I don't have an answer for you. I just don't know at this point. DDs 11 so I still have some time to think about it.

[Medstudent]

Just wanted to repeat something for the record:

 

THERE IS NO REPORTED RISK OF ALS. The cdc website reports a handful of people getting Guillain Barre at some point near the time of their vaccination (again, not a direct relationship, just happened to occur around that time), which is not ALS. GBS is very treatable. Scary, but treatable. I know a few patients who've had it and have had zero issues since, and one of my best friends' husband had it and is now a PhD from Stanford and runs marathons. We have no idea what causes GBS, but it seems to be an autoimmune mechanism so almost anything could trigger it, including a normal bacterial infection.

ALS = very, very scary, not treatable, progressive, and fatal. Just want to make that distinction. We're not sure what causes it, but it seems to be related to repeated head trauma. Not vaccines.

 

I also wanted to make a point about Factor V Leiden: that's kind of what I was saying before. Clotting can occur for a huge variety of reasons, including genetic mutations such as Factor V (there's a whole host of others, too, that are less common) that the vast majority of people have no idea they have. Say your daughter has Factor V, has never known, but gets a bad flu. She's lying around in bed a lot, maybe she's a little dehydrated from her fever. You take her to the doctor, who does a well-child check on top of checking her out for her fever, gives her the HPV shot. This is a girl who is hypercoagulable and has been lying still for days and dehydrated- she's at very high risk for a clot. It's not at all related to the vaccine. But as a parent, you associate the two and report it, cause you don't know she's factor v. And so on. Is that plausible?

[In The Great White North]

Out of sincere curiosity, how many millions of doses given or how many years before you no longer consider the receiver a guinea pig?

Not years, generations.

 

Remember DES?

 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Diethylstilbestrol

 

Read down til DES Daughters, where is talks about the effects being found in the next generation, 14-22 years later. The first question the OB asked me when I was pregnant was if my mother had taken DES.

[Perry]

Just wanted to repeat something for the record:

 

THERE IS NO REPORTED RISK OF ALS.

They are talking about this.

 

I'm staying out of this discussion. ;)

[Alice]

Our ped has always given us the CDC fact sheet for every single vaccine, every time. The VAERS contact info is right there on the back. Is this unusual? I thought it must be required, since they are so conscientious about it.

 

It is required. We have to put the VAERS sheet date on the same sheet where we record the other info about the vaccine (lot number, arm given, etc).

 

Same here. Older dd had a reaction to her first chicken pox vaccine. I never reported it and didn't really know I could. Her peds have all refused to give her the booster though and to my knowledge none of them have made a report either. This was 10 years ago and her current dr. recently sent a letter to her middle school stating she couldn't have the booster.

 

I have made VAERS reports without specifically telling the family that I made it. Particularly for a newer vaccine where I know they are monitoring more closely. VAERS reports do not require any identifying information on the patient like name. It's not that I'm intentionally keeping the report secret from the parent but that I've made it at the end of the day and just not thought to tell them.

 

I don't have time to read through all the pages right now (so I don't know if this was already posted), but this article affirmed all of the conclusions I'd already come to through my own research:

Gardasil Researcher Drops A Bombshell

 

http://open.salon.com/blog/gordon_wagner/2009/10/27/gardasil_researcher_drops_a_bombshell/comment

 

Just to point out that the conference that this researcher is speaking at is the one run by the National Vaccine Information Center which is very much an anti-vaccination organization. Without arguing the points, it's a very slanted viewpoint.

 

Interestingly, our pediatrician is VERY pro-vaccine, and even tries to convince me every year to have my kids get the flu vaccine. We've never gotten the flu vaccine, but otherwise we follow the usual vaccine schedule. When it came to the HPV vaccine, he just asked if we wanted it. When I said, "No." He didn't even try to convince me.

 

I'm very pro-vaccine myself. For Gardisil, I typically mention the vaccine but don't feel as strongly about it if someone declines it. It's not as much a public-health issue in my opinion. Yes, it's a public health issue but there are other ways of preventing HPV infection. There is no other way of preventing pertussis or polio or meningitis.

 

Yes, I remember having to sign for immunizations with our previous physicians. They had physicals this year and that is when the doctor just immunized them, with no warning whatsoever. I really bothered me and when I asked about it, he was defensive and basically gave me a quick answer that there are no risks whatsoever. That is never the case, but for some reason he clearly is on some kind of mission. I had decided to change pediatricians after that experience.

 

Where can I find information about the requirement for physicians to get my authorization for each immunization? I would like to follow up on this.

 

I'm not sure where to find the information but is certainly unethical and I believe illegal for the doc to give an immunization (or do any medical exam/treatment) without your permission. I believe that legally it is considered assault. That's what I remember being taught in med school/residency but I'm not a lawyer and not certain.

 

Depending on the age of your son, it might be ok for the son to give permission for Gardisil. Teens (generally over the age of 12) have the right to seek medical care for sexual disease and pregnancy without a parents' consent. I would personally still not give a Gardisil to a teen who asked for one without telling the parent, but it's possible if your son is older than legally it was technically ok. I'm not a lawyer though so not sure.

 

You could try calling your state's medical board. That's probably the best way if you want to pursue it.

From a JAMA article that looked over all the VAERS data on Gardisil.

 

On the ALS reports:

 

There were 3 reports to VAERS of young females who presented with a rapidly progressing neurologic disorder occurring some months after receipt of the qHPV vaccine. One of these reports was a hearsay report (a fifth-hand report) that could not be identified and might represent 1 of the other 2 cases. Autopsy confirmed a diagnosis of amyotropic lateral sclerosis (anterior motor neuron disease) in 1 case. The other young female died in 2009. The autopsy findings on this case are still pending.

 

On the Deaths:

 

There were 32 VAERS reports of death following qHPV vaccination (Table 2). Eight of the reports were second-hand reports that could not be verified. Four were manufacturer reports with no identifying information for confirmation or medical review. Twenty of the reports (62.5%) could be verified through clinical review of medical records and autopsy reports. Of these cases, 14 (70%) were after qHPV alone. The other 6 cases reported qHPV as well as a variety of other vaccines. Nine cases occurred after dose 1, 5 after dose 2, and 6 after dose 3.

 

Mean age was 18 years (median, 17 years; range, 12-26 years). There was no clustering by age. The mean time from last qHPV immunization to AEFI [adverse effect following immunization] onset was 39 days (median, 14.5 days; range, 2-288 days). The mean time from last qHPV immunization to death was 47 days (median, 14.5 days; range, 2 to 405 days).

 

Causes of death included 4 unexplained deaths, 2 cases of diabetic ketoacidosis (1 complicated by pulmonary embolism), 1 case related to prescription drug abuse, 1 case of juvenile amyotropic lateral sclerosis, 1 case of meningoencephalitis (Neisseria meningitidis serogroup B), 1 case of influenza B viral sepsis, 3 cases of pulmonary embolism (1 associated with hyperviscosity due to diabetic ketoacidosis), 6 cardiac-related deaths (4 arrhythmias and 2 cases of myocarditis), and 2 cases due to idiopathic seizure disorder.

 

The PRR for deaths in 6- to 17-year-olds was 1.4 (χ2 = 0.42, P = .52). The PRR for deaths in 8- to 29-year-olds was 1.2 (χ2 = 0.01, P = .92). Neither of these met the screening criteria for signal detection.

On the Potential for Increased Risk of Clots:

 

I didn't copy from the article for this part but interestingly 2 out of 3 cases of DVT also were oral contraceptives which are a known risk factor for DVT. 90% had some risk of clotting (genetic issue, Oral contraceptive, recent surgery).

 

From:

Postlicensure Safety Surveillance for Quadrivalent Human Papillomavirus Recombinant Vaccine, JAMA, 2009;302(7):750-757. doi: 10.1001/jama.2009.1201 , Slade, et al.

 

http://jama.ama-assn.org/content/302/7/750.full

Edited September 1, 2011 by Alice

[Nakia]

We haven't really made a decision either way for our girls. I don't want them to have it necessarily, but I have watched way too many young women die of cervical cancer in my years as a women's health nurse to say a definite "no!" We will wait and see.

 

I must comment on something I've seen in this thread multiple times. Several people have stated that GB is awful, but very treatable. Treatable can mean so many things. Is it "treatable" like pneumonia is treatable? Just a few antibiotics and a breathing treatment or two? No way. The treatment for GB usually includes a ventilator, feeding tubes, immunotherapy, and then 3-6 months of physical therapy. That's not even considering the emotional damage that is done from months of being paralyzed, unable to eat, and incontinent. These people are never the same, if they even survive.

 

I'm not saying people shouldn't get the vaccine for their kids. I'm saying that we should not minimize Guillain-Barre. It is not just awful and difficult. It is life-altering. I know that cancer is too. We might be dealing with the lesser of two evils here.

[regentrude]

Just wanted to repeat something for the record:

THERE IS NO REPORTED RISK OF ALS. The cdc website reports a handful of people getting Guillain Barre at some point near the time of their vaccination (again, not a direct relationship, just happened to occur around that time), which is not ALS.

 

Incorrect. The cdc website DOES refer to two reported deaths due to ALS:

 

http://www.cdc.gov/vaccinesafety/Vaccines/HPV/jama.html

 

"There were two reports of unusual neurological illness (per autopsy, probable variants of Amytrophic Lateral Sclerosis (ALS) often referred to as “Lou Gehrig's Diseaseâ€) that resulted in the death of two young females. There is no current evidence suggesting that the HPV vaccine caused these illnesses, but researchers from several highly regarded academic centers are studying the cases."

 

Some sources state that the autopsy findings suggest a link to the vaccine:

http://www.medicinenet.com/script/main/art.asp?articlekey=106662

 

"

Yadollah Harati, MD, a neurologist at Baylor College of Medicine in Houston, says the findings raise a red flag.

The fact that "the postmortem studies show distinct immunological features different from what is typical of ALS" suggest an association between vaccination and ALS, he says."