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Elementary math from the AoPS folks


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Ack! Almost makes me wish I had a younger one to use the program for. Should be good stuff.

 

I'm pretty sure you're not alone in that sentiment.

 

Can't you just see it? The high school class of 2030, inexplicably heavy with STEM majors. Only a few of us will know that it is the Richard Rusczyk Baby Boom.

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I was looking at a review on Amazon of Kitchen Table Math from 2010 and the reviewer (a homeschooling parent) said she'd heard rumors that AoPS was going to make a workbook to go with it. Is this what the beast thing is??

 

It doesn't look that way to me.

 

Bill

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Let me first state that I have never in my life read a comic book, so as you can imagine, my first reaction wasn't pleasant. Then I sat down and read a chapter and looked at workbook pages. The explanations are simple and engaging to the kid and problems are tough, really tough for kids. Rep-tiles had my head spinning for a while :) I am loving what I am seeing! I am loving the depth AoPS reaches. I would still prefer if the text was formatted differently. The pages are too colorful and busy, but again, a 7 year old will probably enjoy it. We will be buying everything that comes our way from AoPS, and maybe dropping SM? :(

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Let me first state that I have never in my life read a comic book, so as you can imagine, my first reaction wasn't pleasant. Then I sat down and read a chapter and looked at workbook pages. The explanations are simple and engaging to the kid and problems are tough, really tough for kids. Rep-tiles had my head spinning for a while :) I am loving what I am seeing! I am loving the depth AoPS reaches. I would still prefer if the text was formatted differently. The pages are too colorful and busy, but again, a 7 year old will probably enjoy it. We will be buying everything that comes our way from AoPS, and maybe dropping SM? :(

 

So you have the same one, 3A on perimeter and area? Is this the only sample chapter, or are there others?

 

Bill

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I would still prefer if the text was formatted differently. The pages are too colorful and busy, but again, a 7 year old will probably enjoy it.

 

I emailed them about this, based on the on-line samples alone (I haven't received my sample chapter yet - maybe today?). The response indicated that they actually read my comment ;), and would see what others had to say about that. So, please be as specific as you can be with your comments about what you don't like and what you might like to see instead. One of the things I complained about the most is the font in the cartoon bubbles - way too small in size, not a clear style, and the all-caps made it harder to read. I also complained about too much color and urged them to let white space be white. In addition, I didn't like the font on the regular pages being a narrow style - that didn't seem to save them much space, and it also made it hard to read. I reminded them of the fact that they're dealing with young readers (especially if they're hoping that advanced first and second graders may be using this).

 

Maybe the problem is with my old-lady progressive lenses? :lol: I don't like them, and I'm thinking of getting old-lady line-bifocals instead.

 

Can't wait to get the sample, though this is yet another crazy day so I don't know how much time I'll have to look at it until tonight.

Edited by wapiti
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I emailed them about this, based on the on-line samples alone (I haven't received my sample chapter yet - maybe today?). The response indicated that they actually read my comment ;), and would see what others had to say about that. So, please be as specific as you can be with your comments about what you don't like and what you might like to see instead. One of the things I complained about the most is the font in the cartoon bubbles - way too small in size, not a clear style, and the all-caps made it harder to read. I also complained about too much color and urged them to let white space be white. In addition, I didn't like the font on the regular pages being a narrow style - that didn't seem to save them much space, and it also made it hard to read. I reminded them of the fact that they're dealing with young readers (especially if they're hoping that advanced first and second graders may be using this).

 

Maybe the problem is with my old-lady progressive lenses? :lol: I don't like them, and I'm thinking of getting old-lady line-bifocals instead.

 

Can't wait to get the sample, though this is yet another crazy day so I don't know how much time I'll have to look at it until tonight.

 

I agree with your assessment. My kid had hard time figuring out which bubble he needed to read next. I attributed this to our unfamiliarity with comics in general. I wish they had characters on the side and white space in the middle with boxes of text. They did have one white page with summary information written by one of the characters that was concise and easy to read, but I don't think that's enough. I will let them know when I fill out the survey. The content on the other hand is excellent and advanced! Does anybody know if they will have teacher manuals as well?

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Well her first reaction was similar to mine. She doesn't love the layout. Not only that, despite being a pretty good reader, she couldn't read the text. I had to read it to her. No big deal, but still... Don't think the pirate dialect is a great idea. And the font in all caps is a problem too.

 

Math can sing on it's own they don't need all the bells and whistles. In the very beginning there is too much story and fluff for my taste.

 

She does however love the math and is giggling with glee as I type.

 

We are up to the math meet section and this is a HUGE hit with her. She has now decided she likes the characters and is on their side. So, OK if she likes then I like. I do agree that they should tweak the format. And definitely change the font.

 

So far it is well loved despite it's flaws. They really have a gift for teaching problem solving. I'd like to see more of that and less of the rest.

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I guess I was too late to the party in requesting a sample :(

 

I was late too. I checked next day after it was posted, but they had enough people to test the sample chapter out. Well, I will wait for reviews.:001_smile:

 

I dislike comics myself, but my oldest kids including my husband love them. My son might be a good target for this "Beast math" after it will be released.

Edited by SneguochkaL
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Don't think the pirate dialect is a great idea. And the font in all caps is a problem too.

 

I would have a issue with the pirate dialect too. Pirates are disliked by my oldest daughters:)

 

I want to thank everyone who is reviewing a sample chapter and posting your first impressions here.

 

The explanations are simple and engaging to the kid and problems are tough, really tough for kids. Rep-tiles had my head spinning for a while :) I am loving what I am seeing! I am loving the depth AoPS reaches.

 

Can you give us an approximate example of the toughest problem from a sample chapter you were reviewing. I understand a copy right issue, so I don't ask to copy it here.

My daughter was studying Perimeter/ Area topic in 1 st grade of Russian math, so I would like to compare the levels of problems' difficulty.

Edited by SneguochkaL
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Not only that, despite being a pretty good reader, she couldn't read the text. I had to read it to her. No big deal, but still...

 

On the contrary, I think that's a huge deal. But, I'm hopeful that these formatting issues would be relatively easy to fix.

 

Math can sing on it's own they don't need all the bells and whistles.

 

I hope you point this out to them.

 

I would not be crazy about a pirate dialect either. I'm all in favor of gimmicks, but not at the expense of clear communication.

 

Maybe we should have a unified response from WTM community.

 

My sense was that they're looking for individual responses. They want to know what you think - they're already going to hear from the others - but I'd guess that a significant number of people would have to dislike an aspect before they'd make the effort, i.e., spend the time and money, to change it. I don't think pointing them to the message board is a good idea, because the number of posters is relatively few. Tell them everything you like and everything you don't like. Maybe make a list, with what you feel to be the most significant issues at the top?

 

(ETA: I was recommending commenting on the on-line sample pages, but it looks like they removed the email addy from the website for doing so. I'm guessing that now they'd prefer to hear from only those who have received samples :glare:).

 

Those of you who already have the chapter, is the font size of the on-line PDF pages (when printed out) the same as in the hard-copy you received?

Edited by wapiti
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On the contrary, I think that's a huge deal. But, I'm hopeful that these formatting issues would be relatively easy to fix.

 

Some of it is the formatting and some is the pirate dialect and some is just terminology. Most of it is the dialect and the formatting. She is working out of the workbook now and only needs help now and then with a few big words. She is much more able to read this part independently. Changing the font of the guide would fix 90% of her problems

 

I will definitely give detailed feedback. I feel so honored and lucky to have the opportunity to review it.

 

It's going to be terrific.

 

The font size looks just about the same as the online samples.

 

Except for a short break to go get food she has been working on this non stop since my first post here.:D

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Maybe we should have a unified response from WTM community.

 

I don't know how you could. "The WTM community" hasn't had the opportunity to view the sample chapter, and wouldn't be likely to have a unified opinion on the subject if it did.

 

For example, based on the sample posted online, I like the comic book format, story/ characters, color, and other "bells and whistles." I feel that if I want a stripped down just-the-math approach, I have many choices. So I'd be pretty steamed to have someone speak for me by reporting to AoPS that "the WTM community" wants them to get rid of the fluff.

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Anyone willing to scan-and-email the sample chapter? Pleeeease?

 

I wonder if they'll be done by the time we finish MEP 2B.

 

I wonder if my daughter would kill me if I asked her to do two math programs simultaneously.

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Anyone willing to scan-and-email the sample chapter? Pleeeease?

 

I'm pretty sure that would break copyright. They've put up public samples. If they wanted more samples out in the public, they would have put them up.

 

By time the books are available, I'm sure they'll include lengthier samples. ;)

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Here is one example:

The flagpole at Beast Academy is 24 feet tall. It stands 40 feet from the main entrance to the school.

1) The gflapole tips over. What is the closest that the top of the pole could land to the school entrance?

2) After the flagpole falls, what is the farthest that the top of the pole could land from the school entrance?

3) After the flagpole falls, which of the following could be the distance from the top of the flagpole to the school entrance? you may circle more than one --- 10 feet, 30 feet, 50 feet , 70 feet.

 

 

Some of the best problems involve grids (it is the chapter on area and parameter) and I can't replicate them here :(

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I'm beside myself with how deliciously good the sample chapter is. Simply amazing stuff!!!

 

We just finished the "Guide" Book (Textbook) and will take on the Practice Book tomorrow.

 

The boy says: AWESOME!!!

 

I must wholeheartedly agree. This one is very special folks!

 

Bill

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I can not wait to hear more about this! My 7 yr old loves comic books, he writes his own, and he loves monsters and loves math, so this looks like it would be so much fun for him. I'm just afraid they won't have the level he needs out when he needs it, but I'm hoping!

 

If the sample chapter on "area and perimeter" is representative of the rest of the series (as I strongly suspect) there is so much depth to the topics that most children will benefit from using it even if they are technically using it a level behind.

 

My son, also 7, is a rising 2nd Grader but is working a year plus ahead in Singapore Math. I feared that by next summer's release he might be beyond the Level 3 Beast Academy books. That "fear" has pretty much vanished after working through the sample chapter.

 

They are teaching things that are simply not taught to children in any math text I've ever seen. I think we all have something to which we can look forward with enthusiasm. I can't wait!

 

Bill

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They are teaching things that are simply not taught to children in any math text I've ever seen. I think we all have something to which we can look forward with enthusiasm. I can't wait!

 

Bill

 

btw Bill, I emailed them to ask what other books for little kids they recommend and the man who wrote back recommended Marily Burns' books (Math for Smarty Pants and I Hate Math Book) -- I read these as a kid so I definitely have them for my kids. I love those Little Brown School Books. He also recommended Aha! Gotcha by Martin Gardner. Which I also own. But if you haven't seen these, I recommend trying to take a look. In fact, at all the Little Brown books you can get your hands on. They too cover material that is not generally covered in school in a fun way.

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Sooo...

 

Could this supplement SM or would it be overkill to use both?

 

Inquiring minds want to know!

 

Just judging from the sample chapter, it is an overkill. We love SM and I have always thought it goes much deeper than a regular program, until I saw the AoPS sample. My kid has been running a year ahead in math without encountering any difficulties, but I don't think we would run AoPS ahead. It is really that challenging. I have made up my mind to get through SM third grade and then switch completely. Again, we are afterschoolers, so time is gold around here, but I would think even if I were homeschooling, it would be too much. I still want to see a table of content before I completely set aside SM. We may just use SM for concepts not tought in AoPS, if such a thing materializes. Let me tell you, if I ever meet AoPS folks, I will give them a big kiss :001_smile:

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btw Bill, I emailed them to ask what other books for little kids they recommend and the man who wrote back recommended Marily Burns' books (Math for Smarty Pants and I Hate Math Book) -- I read these as a kid so I definitely have them for my kids. I love those Little Brown School Books. He also recommended Aha! Gotcha by Martin Gardner. Which I also own. But if you haven't seen these, I recommend trying to take a look. In fact, at all the Little Brown books you can get your hands on. They too cover material that is not generally covered in school in a fun way.

 

I had these as well (both Burns and Gardner) and I will enthusiastically second the recommendation for developing math skills in precocious children :)

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Roadrunner and Bill,

 

just to make sure I understand: you both plan on finishing SM 3A and B and will then start this new program at 3th grade level? The samples are that good?? :svengo:

 

I could not get a sample, I'm not in the US, and I have been :banghead:, because my dd7 is doing SM 3 now, but if it is that good.....

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Roadrunner and Bill,

 

just to make sure I understand: you both plan on finishing SM 3A and B and will then start this new program at 3th grade level? The samples are that good?? :svengo:

 

I could not get a sample, I'm not in the US, and I have been :banghead:, because my dd7 is doing SM 3 now, but if it is that good.....

 

Yes, the sample is that good! My kid will finish 3B before he starts 3rd grade, so, basically I will get him on grade level with AoPS. I wish they included the table of content, but I am going to make an assumption that it will be very comprehensive and advanced. It's too bad they only released couple of pages online of the textbook, which looks lightweight, but isn't. You should see the workbook problems. Yes, it's deep :)

I will probably buy SM anyway, just to have it handy in case, but AoPS will be the math program around here and this is coming from a person that can't stand comics. :tongue_smilie:

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Oh my :svengo:.

 

Oh, I wish they had finished this already!!

 

I feel that I'm losing my 7yo dd with math, she has no problem understanding SM, but she gets more and more resistant because she finds it boring. With other subjects, if she starts complaining, I compact things untill she is happy again. She knows that we can do that with math, too...but she wasn't even interested in that anymore :001_huh:. We talked about arithmetic being only a part of math and we played around a bit with tossing coins, playing Nim, fibonacci numbers etc, which did help for a couple of days. I just ordered the books Stripe mentioned (thanks, Stripe!), but I could really use something like Beast Academy right about NOW.

 

The only thing we need is a European AoPs distributor. Do you think I could talk my dh into becoming a distributor? and then maybe get samples? :lol:

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Thanks for heads up. I guess, you talked me to join the group who will be using Best math later on. I just wish they would be releasing 5th grade math in a year, so my daughter could use it too. I am not a big fan of comics( if not to say more:)), but I could forget about my personal fillings, if it would benefit my children's education. Thanks again for sharing your experience with us.

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My friend Jenny received a sample and has pictures up at her blog. Tres jalouse!

 

Yeah, her title "How to get boys to like math." I think is pretty spot on. Anyone else out there with a girl? My little girl could not relate to the monsters at all. As a matter of fact when I opened the book she pointed to every monster and said. "I don't like that one, I don't like that one..."

 

Once the math got interesting she stopped complaining about the cartoons.

 

My daughter BTW is happy to be an Eladrin and fight Orcs with her big brother.

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I believe parameter and area is covered in SM 3B. If anybody has it at home, can you please give us a simple comparison between SM and AoPS approach to this topic?

Thanks!!!!!

 

I't been 7 years since I looked at singapore 3B but off the top of my head.

 

AOPS discusses rectilinear shapes where you can deduct the lengths of corresponding sides.

 

Questions like... "Can a rectangle whose sides are all whole numbers have a perimeter of 13? If so draw it. If not explain.

 

Also there is a concept called rep-tiles. Repeated congruous shapes. Can you decide if a certain shape is a rep-tile. Interesting spacial problems that I don't remember from singapore. I didn't do CWP3 however.

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I't been 7 years since I looked at singapore 3B but off the top of my head.

 

AOPS discusses rectilinear shapes where you can deduct the lengths of corresponding sides.

 

Questions like... "Can a rectangle whose sides are all whole numbers have a perimeter of 13? If so draw it. If not explain.

 

Also there is a concept called rep-tiles. Repeated congruous shapes. Can you decide if a certain shape is a rep-tile. Interesting spacial problems that I don't remember from singapore. I didn't do CWP3 however.

 

Thanks! That confirms my impression that AoPS is more challenging! :lol:

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