HeidiKC Posted August 23, 2011 Share Posted August 23, 2011 I am trying to put together a memory work list for my 6th grader. I just can't picture making him memorize something as LONGLONGLONG as the Magna Carta. And some of the other recommendations by TWTM also seem a bit much to me. Part of is just because they are LONG and (hate to say, but...) kinda boring! But I think of all the time it is going to take on a piece like that, which means taking away from maybe 6 other wonderful poems or even important science facts, etc. And it just seems too bad. So I wonder if I'm just crazy-lazy, or if lots of your kids actually do memorize very, very long pieces like this each year. If they do something like the Magna Carta - how long did it take them and did you feel like the time sacrificed was worth it? I'm almost thinking of doing a poll to see how many are doing this kind of intense memorization. I am VERY impressed already if anyone is doing it! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
frankcassiesmom Posted August 23, 2011 Share Posted August 23, 2011 We do long passages but they're long Bible passages at that age. So my 6th grader is memorizing a chapter in Romans right now and will move on to more chapters after he finishes this one. I need to pull TWTM off the shelf and check out some of her recommendations. It's been so long since I read them last I don't even remember. He also memorizes other things alongside it as well. He just works on them at different times. I don't think memorizing a long passage hinders one from memorizing other things. You just spread out how long it's going to take to get memorized. My son won't work on his passage more than once a day and will work on science, geography, etc. memorization at other times a day. That said, I don't think we'll memorize the Magna Carta :) The Declaration of Independence maybe :) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HeidiKC Posted August 23, 2011 Author Share Posted August 23, 2011 Well, I guess you're right that kids memorize large chunks of the Bible. And that he can work on other stuff alongside it... What about "Casey at the Bat"? I'd like to have him memorize that (and think he'd enjoy it), but it seems so darn overwhelming! How do you go about memorizing something like that? And how long does it take if you spend 10 min/day or so on it? Thank you! I want to do some of this, but am pretty intimidated! And don't want my ds to be turned off memorization. The longest piece we did last year was "The Night Before Christmas", but we only got through half of it before Christmas...and then in January it didn't really seem right to be working on it! So we re-shelved it for this coming Christmas. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
silliness7 Posted August 23, 2011 Share Posted August 23, 2011 Well, I guess you're right that kids memorize large chunks of the Bible. And that he can work on other stuff alongside it... What about "Casey at the Bat"? I'd like to have him memorize that (and think he'd enjoy it), but it seems so darn overwhelming! How do you go about memorizing something like that? And how long does it take if you spend 10 min/day or so on it? Thank you! I want to do some of this, but am pretty intimidated! And don't want my ds to be turned off memorization. The longest piece we did last year was "The Night Before Christmas", but we only got through half of it before Christmas...and then in January it didn't really seem right to be working on it! So we re-shelved it for this coming Christmas. I can't speak to the Magna Charta question. We've not memorized any speeches or documents yet. But my ds, 5th grade last year, memorized Casey at the Bat and he LOVED it. And he is not academically inclined, to say the least. Not a huge baseball fan either. I think the poem just really struck his fancy. Anyway, how we did it was to just take one stanza per week. Say it out loud 10x per day. Then the next week say your old stanzas 1x just for review while working on the new one 10x. It has a lot of stanzas so it does take a lot of weeks. During that time we were also memorizing the catechism but using a CD set to music so it was different and more effortless. My son was so proud of Casey at the Bat he wanted to take a shot at Casey's Revenge but we really ran out of time. That one is just as long. Anyway, Case is not difficult, particularly because it rhymes and it has an exciting story line. It does take up several weeks but it's fun work and rewarding. Go for it! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NanceXToo Posted August 23, 2011 Share Posted August 23, 2011 Even if you made your son memorize something long (and boring), I really doubt it will be committed to permanent memory. I'd consider it pretty pointless busywork myself. Don't feel obligated. If it doesn't feel imperative to you- it isn't. (We do sometimes "memorize" short things for school, just once in a while, and even then if we're not willing to go over and over and over and over and over and over it for a long time, it would soon be forgotten with only bits and pieces of it remaining in her memory bank, and some things I just do not think are "important" enough to spend that much time and effort on; it's just not high on my priority list. But then either is dictation or copywork or a second language, so do with that info what you will lol). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
frankcassiesmom Posted August 23, 2011 Share Posted August 23, 2011 Every one's different on how much they need to do each day. My oldest memorizes pretty quickly. With large passages there are different techniques that can help as well. One of my favorites is you make a sheet that has only the FIRST LETTER of each word in the whole passage. So they can pull out this code looking paper and work through it from memory but with "help". It also helps eliminate the need for ME to work with them correcting random words they get wrong lol. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
frankcassiesmom Posted August 23, 2011 Share Posted August 23, 2011 On them being committed to long term memory, my husband learned incredible amounts of scripture as a child and can pull all of them up at will. My 60 year old mother can still recite things she learned in school like the Gettysburg address, etc. from back when memorizing those things was done by ALL children in all schools lol. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HeidiKC Posted August 23, 2011 Author Share Posted August 23, 2011 I can't speak to the Magna Charta question. We've not memorized any speeches or documents yet. But my ds, 5th grade last year, memorized Casey at the Bat and he LOVED it. And he is not academically inclined, to say the least. Not a huge baseball fan either. I think the poem just really struck his fancy. Anyway, how we did it was to just take one stanza per week. Say it out loud 10x per day. Then the next week say your old stanzas 1x just for review while working on the new one 10x. It has a lot of stanzas so it does take a lot of weeks. During that time we were also memorizing the catechism but using a CD set to music so it was different and more effortless. My son was so proud of Casey at the Bat he wanted to take a shot at Casey's Revenge but we really ran out of time. That one is just as long. Anyway, Case is not difficult, particularly because it rhymes and it has an exciting story line. It does take up several weeks but it's fun work and rewarding. Go for it! Thank you - this is great to hear. And how sweet about your proud son - don't you love that?! Ok, I'm putting it on my list! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HeidiKC Posted August 23, 2011 Author Share Posted August 23, 2011 Even if you made your son memorize something long (and boring), I really doubt it will be committed to permanent memory. I'd consider it pretty pointless busywork myself. Don't feel obligated. If it doesn't feel imperative to you- it isn't. (We do sometimes "memorize" short things for school, just once in a while, and even then if we're not willing to go over and over and over and over and over and over it for a long time, it would soon be forgotten with only bits and pieces of it remaining in her memory bank, and some things I just do not think are "important" enough to spend that much time and effort on; it's just not high on my priority list. But then either is dictation or copywork or a second language, so do with that info what you will lol). Thank you. Taking this advice. I'm not going to feel obligated to have him do the Magna Carta!!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HeidiKC Posted August 23, 2011 Author Share Posted August 23, 2011 Every one's different on how much they need to do each day. My oldest memorizes pretty quickly. With large passages there are different techniques that can help as well. One of my favorites is you make a sheet that has only the FIRST LETTER of each word in the whole passage. So they can pull out this code looking paper and work through it from memory but with "help". It also helps eliminate the need for ME to work with them correcting random words they get wrong lol. GREAT trick! Thanks - we'll try it! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HeidiKC Posted August 23, 2011 Author Share Posted August 23, 2011 On them being committed to long term memory, my husband learned incredible amounts of scripture as a child and can pull all of them up at will. My 60 year old mother can still recite things she learned in school like the Gettysburg address, etc. from back when memorizing those things was done by ALL children in all schools lol. Isn't that wonderful? My grandmother and MIL were the same way! Just last time she was here my 82yo MIL was quoting "Hiawatha" (although she couldn't remember all of it, she had a good chunk - which is great!). It is interesting. I wonder, for example, how much time your mom spent on the Gettysburg Address? So maybe it took a few weeks to memorize. But you'd think she'd have had to keep saying it as review to still remember it 50 years later! I wonder if the teacher had them continue to do it all year or what? I'd be interested to know how that works - to cement these things in your memory bank for that long. Thanks for sharing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LittleIzumi Posted August 23, 2011 Share Posted August 23, 2011 No Magna Carta here, but I memorized The Ride of Paul Revere when I was in homeschool. It certainly SEEMED extremely long :lol:. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris in VA Posted August 23, 2011 Share Posted August 23, 2011 I've found dd is motivated by the material she picks to learn, and likes to show it off for me. She is still working on Midnight Ride of Paul Revere, but it is totally independent (not homeschooling this year or this coming year). She printed out the poem and has it hanging on her wall by her loft bed; every few weeks, she tells me she's learned a couple more stanzas. I think she has 6 left. My dear friend (adult) says memorization becomes easier as you do more of it. She has memorized an incredible amt--Scripture, Classical Conversation material, poems, passages from literature, Godly Play (a Sunday School curriculum) stories, etc. It keeps her mind sharp and is helpful to her life. I want to do more memory work with dd, but I felt the window had closed--now I see we can reopen it. :001_smile: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
silliness7 Posted August 23, 2011 Share Posted August 23, 2011 I was moderately motivated to add poetry to our scripture/catechism memory work for as long as I can remember. However, after reading Andrew Pudewa's reasonings for memorizing poetry I became a staunch advocate, even if they can't keep it in there forever. And that was something I really struggled with being bent towards the pragmatic. What's the point if they can't remember it forever and in the beginning I spent an extraordinary amount of time keeping up with old memory work. But that nearly burnt us all out and I had to remind myself that there are many advantages even if it leaks out. Anyway Pudewa says if you want good language out, you must put good language in. This is in the intro to IEW's Poetry memorization program. He goes on to explain why just reading good literature doesn't yield the same results as memorizing good literature. I'm sold. :D Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hsmom27 Posted August 23, 2011 Share Posted August 23, 2011 (edited) I don't know about the Magna Carta, but I do think a lot of memorization is a good idea. I think with proper review most memorization can be filed into long term memory. But even if it isn't, I've found that the more you work on memorization the easier it becomes. My oldest was very slow at memorization when we started in 1st. Now, in the first 9 weeks of the 4th grade, he has memorized the bulk of the periodic table, The War Inevitable, the states and their capitals, 50 vocabulary words, 10 short silly poems, new grammar rules, 50 new latin stems, and anything else I randomly threw into his memorization box. I'm constantly amazed by his learned ability to accurately file away large chunks of information. There's NO WAY I could do even a fraction of what he does, and yet it seems effortless for him. I don't help, btw. He has a memorization box and our goal is for him to work on it 10min., 3x a day. Edited August 23, 2011 by littlewigglebutts oops Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ShareBear Posted August 23, 2011 Share Posted August 23, 2011 I have a six year old who memorizes quickly and easily and a four year old who does not. But with both of them, I have found that consistency is key--a little a day, say fifteen minutes or so, but every day. They really do get better and faster at memorizing things the more they do it. I'm finding this to be true of myself, too--exercise those memorization muscles, and they get stronger. :) It helps, I think, if you are convinced that what you are memorizing/having your kids memorize is really worth memorizing. Is it important that they know the Magna Charta by heart? I dunno. But chapters of the Bible? Sure. The Declaration of Independence? Yeah, that would be important to us. Etc. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
brownie Posted August 23, 2011 Share Posted August 23, 2011 We like using music and rhythm to aid our memorization! Though we haven't succeeded at anything super long. We've done the preamble to the constitution. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
frankcassiesmom Posted August 23, 2011 Share Posted August 23, 2011 I was moderately motivated to add poetry to our scripture/catechism memory work for as long as I can remember. However, after reading Andrew Pudewa's reasonings for memorizing poetry I became a staunch advocate, even if they can't keep it in there forever. And that was something I really struggled with being bent towards the pragmatic. What's the point if they can't remember it forever and in the beginning I spent an extraordinary amount of time keeping up with old memory work. But that nearly burnt us all out and I had to remind myself that there are many advantages even if it leaks out. Anyway Pudewa says if you want good language out, you must put good language in. This is in the intro to IEW's Poetry memorization program. He goes on to explain why just reading good literature doesn't yield the same results as memorizing good literature. I'm sold. :D Stop trying to make me spend money! I've waffled on this for two years now lol. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HeidiKC Posted August 23, 2011 Author Share Posted August 23, 2011 We like using music and rhythm to aid our memorization! Though we haven't succeeded at anything super long. We've done the preamble to the constitution. I can see how this would be helpful. The only thing I remember memorizing when I was a kid was some some Supreme Court cases in high school. I remember marching around, pumping my arms and shouting out "Escobedo vs. (someone)" and the date, etc. Then the next one and on. It was fun and helped a lot! I'd forgotten that - thanks! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Penelope Posted August 23, 2011 Share Posted August 23, 2011 I memorized a ton as a child, adolescent, and young adult. I remember quite a bit of it. The question is, what do you think is important, beautiful, and/or useful for your child to remember? The Magna Charta isn't on my list, but there are lots of other things that are. As my children get older, I expect them to exercise more choice in what they memorize. But I think memory work is very important both as a skill, and for content. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HeidiKC Posted August 23, 2011 Author Share Posted August 23, 2011 I memorized a ton as a child, adolescent, and young adult. I remember quite a bit of it. The question is, what do you think is important, beautiful, and/or useful for your child to remember? The Magna Charta isn't on my list, but there are lots of other things that are. As my children get older, I expect them to exercise more choice in what they memorize. But I think memory work is very important both as a skill, and for content. It's not on my list, either. And yes, I agree that we need to choose, etc. I'm just really curious as to whether anyone finds the Magna Carta something important enough to memorize and does so! I was surprised it was recommended in TWTM and then looked it up to see how long it was, and thought WOW!!! WHO DOES THAT?!!! It seems that there are some people that feel the need to follow the recommendations exactly, and would love to hear what they have to say about that. Maybe none of us have that document high on our list. I assume SWB's kids must have memorized it if she's got it listed! Wonder how that went?! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stripe Posted August 23, 2011 Share Posted August 23, 2011 I don't see where it's listed as to be memorized. Just to be studied. Can you help me out? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HeidiKC Posted August 24, 2011 Author Share Posted August 24, 2011 I don't see where it's listed as to be memorized. Just to be studied. Can you help me out? p. 290, the last sentence of the paragraph under the title "Memorization" (in the chapter on history, in the section for sixth grade): "Sixth graders should also memorize the text of the Magna Carta." This is the 1999 edition, so maybe she got rid of it in the newer edition? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Posted August 24, 2011 Share Posted August 24, 2011 p. 290, the last sentence of the paragraph under the title "Memorization" (in the chapter on history, in the section for sixth grade): "Sixth graders should also memorize the text of the Magna Carta." This is the 1999 edition, so maybe she got rid of it in the newer edition? It would appear so. Every now and then, I trip over a head-scratcher in WTM, like the recommendation for first graders to read about Aristotle, Plato and Socrates. I could never find a good book on those subjects at that level. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ellyndria Posted August 24, 2011 Share Posted August 24, 2011 We didn't have to memorize a lot in school, but we did have to memorize a bit out of the Declaration of Independence in 5th grade, and the preamble to the Constitution in 6th grade. I still remember those bits. I also remember a poem we did as copywork in 2nd grade. I remember the whole Jabberwocky poem (including spelling) from when I did it as a calligraphy project when I was 13 or so. I taught myself the months poem (the one in FLL1, although mine was a slightly different version) in grade school as a tool to remember which months had 30 and 31 days. I remember tons of Mother Goose rhymes from when I was little too, but I don't know if that counts. :tongue_smilie: However, the passages out of Romeo and Juliet, and whatever else we memorized in 10th grade English class, never made it into long term memory. Not sure why. Maybe it was just easier when I was younger. So, I didn't really memorize a lot, but has always been nice to be able to pull something out of memory to impress others with every now and then. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
helena Posted August 24, 2011 Share Posted August 24, 2011 Wow, that is long.. I don't see us memorizing it in this years history cycle. But who knows, by the time they're in high school it might make sense. One could always memorize parts of it, along with an in-depth study. I think it's important enough to do at least that, (but not the end of the world if you don't :001_smile:) In September our poem for memory will be on the long side (for us). The Lady of Shallot: http://www.victorianweb.org/authors/tennyson/los1.html. I'm hoping to do it in a month. The more memory work we do, the more I love it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
helena Posted August 24, 2011 Share Posted August 24, 2011 (edited) As far as helping them to remember the pieces long term, we re-read our poems from previous years throughout the school year. This year I took them to B&N to pick out some fancy journals. They're going to start copying all the poems we've done to make a book. I think it'll be a nice keepsake too. We've done one poem per month for quite a few years (last year we did two), and they still remember many of them. Long term, I see them finishing school with a few completed journals including speeches, quotes, documents, poems and other similar type things. I hope writing the books will help set it to long term memory and that they'll occasionally pick them up to read as adults. Historical memory work could be easily practiced by re-writing and memorizing each time it comes up in the history cycle. I think poems, document, and speeches would look great added on to timelines, and every few years you'd get the chance to re-aquaint yourself. By the time you graduate you could be very comfortable with heavy pieces. I definitely plan on pulling out poems that are history related each time that cycle comes back around. Edited August 24, 2011 by helena Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Annabel Lee Posted August 24, 2011 Share Posted August 24, 2011 :iagree: Copying was how I memorized in school. I had to memorize chapters of the Bible for recitation, and although if you asked me to recite any that I've memorized (except for the very common ones I still hear frequently), I can recall them in whole when I hear just the first line. For HS science and English, I remember making vocab. lists and flashcards. Again, another form of copying. In elementary school I had to copy spelling words 3x per day, and it was (WAS, not IS, so don't hold me to it! ;)) my best subject. I had my boys learn the first part of the Declaration of Independence when we were studying American History. They only remember some of it. I'm hoping with reoccuring review, it won't completely leave their mind, and then we can build on it when we hit American Hist. again in the context of World Hist. in a couple years. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Farrar Posted August 24, 2011 Share Posted August 24, 2011 I've had my kids memorize things - poems, lines for the Shakespeare play they were in, a few memory tricks for information (like "My Very Eager Mother Just Served Us Pizzas" kinds of things). However, I've not had them memorize the "great documents" kinds of things and I don't really intend to. I'd rather they memorize things that mean something to them or have an application for them. I can see that I might change my mind as they get older, but there's no way we're doing the whole Magna Carta. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RahRah Posted August 24, 2011 Share Posted August 24, 2011 On them being committed to long term memory, my husband learned incredible amounts of scripture as a child and can pull all of them up at will. My 60 year old mother can still recite things she learned in school like the Gettysburg address, etc. from back when memorizing those things was done by ALL children in all schools lol. DH's father recently recited the Declaration of Independence for DS - he was just amazed (we were too)....when we were discussing, he said when he was in school everyone learned it, along with the Gettysburg Address, Magna Carta, passages from the Bible, and a handful of other noteworthy historical documents and entire sections of plays and books (Shakespeare, Iliad, etc.). He's almost 80 and can pull them from memory still to this day! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ktgrok Posted August 24, 2011 Share Posted August 24, 2011 (edited) Yup, I still remember parts of speeches, poetry by Thomas Paine, The Gettysburg Address, etc. or at least, I did until recently...right now I have some of the words in my head, and the feel of things...the summer solidier and sunshine patriot? does that sound right, lol. I looked it up and it all started coming back..."These are the times that try men's souls: The summer soldier and the sunshine patriot will, in this crisis shrink from the service of his country; but he that stands it NOW, deserves the love and thanks of man and woman." Edited August 24, 2011 by ktgrok Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stripe Posted August 24, 2011 Share Posted August 24, 2011 p. 290, the last sentence of the paragraph under the title "Memorization" (in the chapter on history, in the section for sixth grade): "Sixth graders should also memorize the text of the Magna Carta." This is the 1999 edition, so maybe she got rid of it in the newer edition? I didn't see it in the 3rd ed and searched inside the 4th ed on amazon. So apparently not currently suggested. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
helena Posted August 24, 2011 Share Posted August 24, 2011 DH's father recently recited the Declaration of Independence for DS - he was just amazed (we were too)....when we were discussing, he said when he was in school everyone learned it, along with the Gettysburg Address, Magna Carta, passages from the Bible, and a handful of other noteworthy historical documents and entire sections of plays and books (Shakespeare, Iliad, etc.). He's almost 80 and can pull them from memory still to this day! That's awesome!! I'm curious how he thinks that has benefited his life. What are his thoughts on memory work. :bigear: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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