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Susan Wise Bauer

Answering questions about Advanced Language Lessons

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1) AVAILABILITY

 

As far as Advanced Language Lessons goes, there's good news, and there's bad news.

 

The good news: If you want to use it this fall, you can have it for free.

 

The bad news: It's going to be PDF and MS only, and I cannot promise you that Level 2 will be ready for Fall 2012, even in PDF and MS form.

 

 

SWB

I was referring to the original post for this thread. I might have missed something in between the first and last thread of this post. I do not know why Amazon has it listed...maybe a mistake? But of course, I am no authority here.

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It looks like level 1 will be ready for release within the next few months, but level 2 will NOT be ready for release NEXT fall (which we all want if we are using level 1 this year).

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Susan,

 

I have two children DS9 (just turned 9) and DS12 (turns 13 in March). Given that they have had little instruction in grammar (we are currently working through Winston Grammar and plan to finish by the end of the year) where would you place them in terms of FLL and ALL.

 

Second, we have dabbled a little with IEW. My children are verbally gifted with amazing memories but reluctant narrators (..you know that I know that..) where would you start each of them in WWE/WWS. My younger son is pencil phobic (not typically so...he is not reluctant to put pencil to paper but is painfully slow).

 

Thank you for your time and attention in answering my question.

 

Julia

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OK, I'm a little confused. If we use the 1st level this year and the next level does not come out next year, what are we supposed to use? The thing is, we really like it. The thought of switching curr. again next year....well, not so appealing. What to do, what to do......:confused:

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OK, I'm a little confused. If we use the 1st level this year and the next level does not come out next year, what are we supposed to use? The thing is, we really like it. The thought of switching curr. again next year....well, not so appealing. What to do, what to do......:confused:

 

I am using ALL this year and after we are finished with what we have, I am planning to do some applied grammar like Kilgallon Story Grammar and focusing more on Writing With Skill until the next level comes out. SWB mentioned early on in this thread that it was likely that the next level would not be out in time to start next school year so I have been making a plan as we go along.

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Dear WTMers and fans of Peace Hill Press,

 

We have good news, and we have bad news.

 

Here’s the good news: The Writing With Skill series is on track. The full, final PDFs will be available for download from Peace Hill Press very shortly (more news on this front next week).

 

The print books will arrive in December, and those of you who preordered them at the special discounted price will get them well before they’re available on Amazon.com.

 

Anyone who needs the PDF now, or who wants to hold out for the print version of the book is welcome to obtain a PDF of the first 20 weeks for free; just email my executive assistant, Pattie Worth, at executiveassistant@welltrainedmind.com.

 

Here’s more good news...Level 2 is progressing along nicely, and I expect to make it available in the fall for those who’ve already begun Level 1.

 

Now the bad news.

 

Advanced Language Lessons, Level 1, has hit a serious technical snag. Those of you who’ve gotten the PDF of the first 15 weeks might notice that it is over 500 pages long. If you do the math, you’ll see that the final book is now slated to be...um...1400 pages.

 

That’s not really workable. We can’t sell it for the planned price, for one thing. And for another, your children will revolt and charge our office with pitchforks.

 

We haven’t done a grammar text of this length and complexity before, so we’re finding out the snags as we go. Unfortunately, this means that, for now, we’re going to have to cancel publication of the book. The only way to get the material back into reasonable limits is to 1) revamp the text so that it’s more concise, 2) redesign the typesetting, and 3) divide the book into a student and teacher text, like FLL3 and FLL4. None of this can be done quickly. We certainly can’t make these massive changes before the publication date. And we’re a small shop here; I’m worried that if I, personally, stop and work out these snags, I won’t hit my deadline for Writing With Skill 2.

 

In the grand scheme of things, there seems to be a lot more need for Writing With Skill than for another grammar text. We’ve been recommending Rod & Staff (minus the writing exercises), A Beka (ditto), Shurley English (skip the writing and add some diagramming), and Voyages in English (skip the composition elements) for years, and these are still perfectly good options. (The recommendations are found in the third edition of The Well-Trained Mind, on page 343; note that there’s a typo in the last paragraph--the fifth-grade text is called Following the Plan, not Progressing with Courage.)

 

If you’ve done the first six weeks of ALL, you can skip the initial noun, adjective, and verb units in these other grammar resources. If you want to continue on with the first fifteen weeks, you can then transfer over into one of the other books and also skip the sentence complement, preposition, and pronoun units.

 

I apologize for this, I really do. I should have realized much earlier in the process that the format of the book would be too unwieldy. (Live and learn, I guess.) But now that we’re in this position, it seems more important to me to continue on with the writing program, on a schedule that will make it possible for us to continue on with a book per year, than to stop and focus on fixing the current problem.

 

Because of this, I don’t plan to reschedule ALL for the near future. Once the writing series is complete we’ll take another look at the possibilities; and we’ll keep you posted, of course. But in the meantime, I think you can manage fine with the available resources. (Personally, I suffered through A Beka grammar--the old, unrevised version that had you diagramming those paragraph-long sentences from the King James Bible--and I survived. And got into college.)

 

Thanks for your understanding, and for your patience.

 

:blushing:

 

SWB

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I think that is a great idea. While I have appreciated the ALL, it has been a lot for us to get through each week, as I couldn't help myself and we are also doing Sentence Composing and MCT Town in the mix. I would most definitely love to keep the levels of WWS coming on time, so I am glad you are choosing to focus on them instead. I will say that the kids enjoy doing ALL exercises that correspond with WWS, so I think you are on to a great idea with having both programs work together in that way. Thanks for your hard work!

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Here’s more good news...Level 2 is progressing along nicely, and I expect to make it available in the fall for those who’ve already begun Level 1.

 

 

 

Ok, this may be a stupid question but which fall??? Fall 2012?

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Now the bad news.

 

Advanced Language Lessons, Level 1, has hit a serious technical snag. Those of you who’ve gotten the PDF of the first 15 weeks might notice that it is over 500 pages long. If you do the math, you’ll see that the final book is now slated to be...um...1400 pages.

 

That’s not really workable. We can’t sell it for the planned price, for one thing. And for another, your children will revolt and charge our office with pitchforks.

 

We haven’t done a grammar text of this length and complexity before, so we’re finding out the snags as we go. Unfortunately, this means that, for now, we’re going to have to cancel publication of the book. The only way to get the material back into reasonable limits is to 1) revamp the text so that it’s more concise, 2) redesign the typesetting, and 3) divide the book into a student and teacher text, like FLL3 and FLL4. None of this can be done quickly. We certainly can’t make these massive changes before the publication date. And we’re a small shop here; I’m worried that if I, personally, stop and work out these snags, I won’t hit my deadline for Writing With Skill 2.

 

In the grand scheme of things, there seems to be a lot more need for Writing With Skill than for another grammar text. We’ve been recommending Rod & Staff (minus the writing exercises), A Beka (ditto), Shurley English (skip the writing and add some diagramming), and Voyages in English (skip the composition elements) for years, and these are still perfectly good options. (The recommendations are found in the third edition of The Well-Trained Mind, on page 343; note that there’s a typo in the last paragraph--the fifth-grade text is called Following the Plan, not Progressing with Courage.)

 

Thanks for your understanding, and for your patience.

 

:blushing:

 

SWB

 

While I love ALL, I agree we want/need WWS more!!!!! It's a easy choice for me. I can do grammar (you just made it easier)....I want your help w/ the writing! :001_smile:

 

Thank you!

Capt Uhura

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The print books will arrive in December, and those of you who preordered them at the special discounted price will get them well before they’re available on Amazon.com.

 

Yay, I can't wait to get mine!

 

Here’s more good news...Level 2 is progressing along nicely, and I expect to make it available in the fall for those who’ve already begun Level 1.

 

Embarrassed to ask, but are you going to need beta testers before next fall? I'm asking because we start our new school year at the beginning of each July.

...it seems more important to me to continue on with the writing program, on a schedule that will make it possible for us to continue on with a book per year, than to stop and focus on fixing the current problem.

 

Oh, thankyouthankyouthankyou so much! I can handle the religiousness of R&S, but I was getting lost without you teaching my kids writing skills. They think you are a better writing teacher than I am. :D

 

(Personally, I suffered through A Beka grammar--the old, unrevised version that had you diagramming those paragraph-long sentences from the King James Bible--and I survived. And got into college.)

 

:lol::lol:

 

Thanks for your understanding, and for your patience.

 

:blushing:

 

SWB

 

No blushing - we thank YOU for your generosity in giving us all this stuff for free right now!

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No blushing - we thank YOU for your generosity in giving us all this stuff for free right now!

 

:iagree::iagree::iagree::iagree::iagree::iagree::iagree::iagree::Angel_anim:

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Yes, fall 2012, although it will probably still be in a later development stage (un-proofread, etc.). I don't know how much of it will be available before fall, although you can always ask.

 

SWB

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Here’s the good news: The Writing With Skill series is on track.

 

Here’s more good news...Level 2 is progressing along nicely, and I expect to make it available in the fall for those who’ve already begun Level 1.

 

In the grand scheme of things, there seems to be a lot more need for Writing With Skill than for another grammar text.

While I'm sorry about the ALL schedule, I totally agree that there is a great need for WWS. Dh (Reg) and I have been more pleased with the results of your WWE and WWS programs than with any other - and we've tried at least ten writing programs.

 

Thank you for all of your work for homeschoolers! We appreciate it.

 

GardenMom

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Yes, fall 2012, although it will probably still be in a later development stage (un-proofread, etc.). I don't know how much of it will be available before fall, although you can always ask.

 

SWB

 

I love proofing and doing at the same time if it means I get to do it now....so send away lol my email is always open! :001_smile:

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While I love ALL, I agree we want/need WWS more!!!!! It's a easy choice for me. I can do grammar (you just made it easier)....I want your help w/ the writing! :001_smile:

 

Thank you!

Capt Uhura

 

:iagree::iagree:

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While I love ALL, I agree we want/need WWS more!!!!! It's a easy choice for me. I can do grammar (you just made it easier)....I want your help w/ the writing! :001_smile:

 

Thank you!

Capt Uhura

 

 

Yes! I agree. I am so grateful that you allow us to start with WWS and can understand the problems with ALL. You are a blessing in my homeschool journey.

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Nooooooooooo!! I totally understand, but I am also devastated. DS and I have been doing fill-in stuff for grammar awaiting ALL and now it is not coming. I am :(

I also have a question. DS has completed FLL 3 and 4. Where do we pick up with the other grammar resources you mentioned in the post i.e. Rod and Staff, Abeka, Voyages? I don't have WTM 3rd edition :(

 

Suggestions, anyone?

 

Thankyou

Anne

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One bit of unsolicited input for future ALL incarnations:

 

Please keep the delightful tone. The very slightly not serious but actually serious tone was perfect for this age. Too many jokes and I think kids get a bit confused (friend or authority?) and too dry and it dies on the page.

 

This was perfect.

 

And we wouldn't complain about 1400 pages. He has really enjoyed ALL.

 

Ah well, I hope I get to use it with son the younger.

 

But given the choice, I would chose a middle and high school age writing program.

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We used RS 4 last year, but we definitely preferred the 3 years prior with FLL. I was going to start ALL in a few weeks with my DD. All I have is the 5 week sample. I never asked for the 15 week sample, since I thought I would purchase it in Jan. (I understand the need to change the original plan. I am also grateful for the samples of WWS and ALL.)

 

Having said that, is it still possible to receive the 15 week sample? (My DD was getting excited to start it. The other recommended grammar programs just don't seem to "speak" to us. Of coarse, this would leave us with further confusion on the grammar path after this year.;))

 

I appreciate all you do for parents and children!

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Christine--yes, just email for it.

 

SWB

 

Hooray! I can now go to sleep and not worry about our grammar plan for the time being.

 

Thanks, SWB!

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Because of this, I don’t plan to reschedule ALL for the near future. Once the writing series is complete we’ll take another look at the possibilities; and we’ll keep you posted, of course. But in the meantime, I think you can manage fine with the available resources. (Personally, I suffered through A Beka grammar--the old, unrevised version that had you diagramming those paragraph-long sentences from the King James Bible--and I survived. And got into college.)

 

 

Does this mean that ALL will not be available in 2 years either? (when my 3rd grader is in 5th grade) Do you think maybe in 4 years? or are we looking at longer than that?

 

Totally understand and WWS is worth it, just trying to plan:D.

 

Oh, and I totally think that you should do separate teacher and student books (that is how I printed the pdf), I think it works better that way.

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Susan,

Thanks for all you do to help the rest of us homeschooling moms - we really appreciate it! I'm sure it was not an easy decision for you to make to postpone ALL, but it sure seems to be the most logical.

Having said that, we are so sad here; my almost 10 yo old son can't IMAGINE doing grammar with ANYONE but SWB! I have emailed Pattie for the samples that were already complete and wanted to thank you for making them available. I see a major slow down coming in our grammar schedule - we'll savor every last lesson of FLL-4 and make the weeks of ALL stretch out as long as possible (without losing effectiveness, of course!).

Thanks again!

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I also have a question. DS has completed FLL 3 and 4. Where do we pick up with the other grammar resources you mentioned in the post i.e. Rod and Staff, Abeka, Voyages? I don't have WTM 3rd edition :(

 

Francie has has completed FLL3 and is almost done with FLL4. I spent many hours looking for a new grammar program for 5th grade after I found out about ALL being canceled. I read through countless samples online and let Francie look at them too. I didn't look at R&S or A Beka because I know from prior perusals that the religious content was simply too unworkable for us. My main contenders were GWG, VIE, Shurley, Easy Grammar, and Hake/Saxon.

 

FWIW, Francie chose Hake (which is what I ultimately wanted to use also). Her comments on the others:

 

GWG: Wow, that looks really boring.

VIE: Forty sentences on finding the direct object? In FIFTH grade?? And I don't want pictures of basketball players in my grammar book!

Shurley: I don't like the jungles (which surprised me, as I thought she'd be all over that ... and to me, Shurley looked like it would be too hard to step into in 5th grade, because they seem to have their own system for doing things).

Hake: I really wanted to do ALL. But this looks interesting. It looks kinda like FLL.

 

I didn't even show her samples of Easy Grammar because I ruled that out when I looked at it.

 

So, we're going with Hake 5, and even though dd is disappointed that ALL won't be available, she's looking forward to giving Hake a try.

 

Tara

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Thank you Tara for your post. It was very helpful. I will look into HAKE.

 

Question: Is the Hake Grammar called Hake Grammar and Writing? If so, is it worth it if you only do the grammar portion?

Edited by Capt_Uhura

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Question: Is the Hake Grammar called Hake Grammar and Writing? If so, is it worth it if you only do the grammar portion?

 

Yes, that's what it's called. And the bulk of the program is the grammar portion. The writing lessons are contained within the Student Workbook, which you don't need to buy if you aren't doing the writing. But if you buy Hake from Rainbow Resource, it's only about $2 more to buy the whole package (SE, TE, SW, $44.95) than to buy just the SE and TE separately.

 

ETA: I was wrong. I's $3.40 more for the whole package. ;)

 

Tara

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Francie has has completed FLL3 and is almost done with FLL4. I spent many hours looking for a new grammar program for 5th grade after I found out about ALL being canceled. I read through countless samples online and let Francie look at them too. I didn't look at R&S or A Beka because I know from prior perusals that the religious content was simply too unworkable for us. My main contenders were GWG, VIE, Shurley, Easy Grammar, and Hake/Saxon.

 

FWIW, Francie chose Hake (which is what I ultimately wanted to use also). Her comments on the others:

 

GWG: Wow, that looks really boring.

VIE: Forty sentences on finding the direct object? In FIFTH grade?? And I don't want pictures of basketball players in my grammar book!

Shurley: I don't like the jungles (which surprised me, as I thought she'd be all over that ... and to me, Shurley looked like it would be too hard to step into in 5th grade, because they seem to have their own system for doing things).

Hake: I really wanted to do ALL. But this looks interesting. It looks kinda like FLL.

 

I didn't even show her samples of Easy Grammar because I ruled that out when I looked at it.

 

So, we're going with Hake 5, and even though dd is disappointed that ALL won't be available, she's looking forward to giving Hake a try.

 

Tara

I did not care for the sports figures as well in VIE but they do have an extensive amount of history and science related sentences in the book. IMO it was not dominated by popular culture. We did chose VIE.

 

OTOH, Hake looks great as well.

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In the grand scheme of things, there seems to be a lot more need for Writing With Skill than for another grammar text. We’ve been recommending Rod & Staff (minus the writing exercises), A Beka (ditto), Shurley English (skip the writing and add some diagramming), and Voyages in English (skip the composition elements) for years, and these are still perfectly good options. (The recommendations are found in the third edition of The Well-Trained Mind, on page 343; note that there’s a typo in the last paragraph--the fifth-grade text is called Following the Plan, not Progressing with Courage.)

 

If you’ve done the first six weeks of ALL, you can skip the initial noun, adjective, and verb units in these other grammar resources. If you want to continue on with the first fifteen weeks, you can then transfer over into one of the other books and also skip the sentence complement, preposition, and pronoun units.

 

Does this refer to Rod and Staff 5? My son completed 5, and I'm wondering whether he could skip any of Rod and Staff 6, assuming he completes the first 15 weeks of ALL. We are actually starting our school year next week, so he hasn't started ALL or R&S 6. I'd like him to do ALL first but only if it makes sense.

 

Also, are the ALL Reviews meant to be done in one day, making for a four-day grammar week occasionally?

 

Finally, I've noticed that diagrams are provided in FLL (R&S requires the student to come up with the diagram on his own, as well as the words on it, even in 3rd grade). I see that in ALL, there is some initial help with diagrams. When using R&S, should I provide all diagrams for 3rd and 4th grade and give some help with 5th grade and up? Is there a point at which the student should be expected to do complex diagramming with no hints?

 

Thank you very much for your help. And I concur that although I'd love to use ALL, WWS is the greater need at present. We are very excited about that.

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I'm just printing off the next few weeks of ALL (Thanks!) I noticed that after week 5 there is review 2 (weeks 4-6). Is there a review 1 somewhere that I missed?

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One possible replacement for ALL is JAG. We haven't used JAG, but my dd11 and ds13 are using AG and really enjoying it. I'm going to look into JAG w/my dd7 if ALL is not completed when she's done w/FLL.

 

Laura

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i understand that i cannot rely on ALL future levels. previously i dbeing using growing with grammar for gr.6 and gr,7(before that FLL and Rod and Staff)I noticed GWG wasn't one of your options and was wondering why? Now that ALl not on for future i was thinking to go back to GWG what do u think?

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Not SWB but I think GWG is a good option for those of us wanting a solid secular reasonably priced option. VIE is just too much $$$$.

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Rod and Staff is suggested again for high school. Would it be better to just start with Rod and Staff after fll and continue through or would it be better to have a break and do something different like hake grammar for middle school and start with rod and staff seventh grade text in 9th grade?

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We have cancelled publication, long ago. It is very frustrating that Amazon still shows the book as pending, but this is typical for Amazon. Changes communicated to them are ignored for months. PHP has tried for months to get Amazon to correct the WWS instructor guide listing, without success.

 

Moderator

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We have cancelled publication, long ago. It is very frustrating that Amazon still shows the book as pending, but this is typical for Amazon. Changes communicated to them are ignored for months. PHP has tried for months to get Amazon to correct the WWS instructor guide listing, without success.

 

Moderator

 

I also have been watching the Amazon listing. Even though I visit this forum a couple of times a week, I somehow missed this announcement and now find myself having to find a new grammar program. I had also subscribed to TWTM and History of the World blogs to get updates on future releases, but I don't recall an announcement being made there. I even visited the PHP website several times looking for updates. I understand the need to postpone publication, but wish the announcement would have been a little more public. Please don't take me for a grouch -- I'm a loyal customer -- but I'm deeply disappointed.

 

Edited to add: I just realized why I never saw this sticky. I hardly ever visit the logic stage forum. My son has autism and lags in most of his subjects (except for grammar when he used FLL; the transition to R&S didn't go well), so it hasn't made much sense for me to spend much time over here.

Edited by argsmommy

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Susan, if you don't mind my asking, does this still apply for the Voyages 2011 editions? I have the second edition of TWTM and just put on hold the third at my library to compare any differences in the comments. I was just wondering though, if you have had the chance to look at the 2011 edition and if skipping the composition still applies for this edition as well.

 

Thank you in advance for any input you can provide :)!

 

 

We’ve been recommending Rod & Staff (minus the writing exercises), A Beka (ditto), Shurley English (skip the writing and add some diagramming), and Voyages in English (skip the composition elements) for years, and these are still perfectly good options. (The recommendations are found in the third edition of The Well-Trained Mind, on page 343; note that there’s a typo in the last paragraph--the fifth-grade text is called Following the Plan, not Progressing with Courage.)

 

SWB

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Susan, if you don't mind my asking, does this still apply for the Voyages 2011 editions? I have the second edition of TWTM and just put on hold the third at my library to compare any differences in the comments. I was just wondering though, if you have had the chance to look at the 2011 edition and if skipping the composition still applies for this edition as well.

 

Thank you in advance for any input you can provide :)!

 

You may want to listen to SWB's audio lecture, "A Plan for Teaching Writing: Focus on the Middle Grades". She explains in the lecture that with any of these programs you simply leave off the composition and use them for grammar only. Regardless of any edition of any of the suggested curriculums, the answer is the same: replace the composition exercises with either TWTM method of teaching writing (or use WWS).

 

I hope this helps, but I also encourage you to listen to the lecture because it is very helpful.

 

Blessings,

Lucinda

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You may want to listen to SWB's audio lecture, "A Plan for Teaching Writing: Focus on the Middle Grades". She explains in the lecture that with any of these programs you simply leave off the composition and use them for grammar only. Regardless of any edition of any of the suggested curriculums, the answer is the same: replace the composition exercises with either TWTM method of teaching writing (or use WWS).

 

I hope this helps, but I also encourage you to listen to the lecture because it is very helpful.

 

Blessings,

Lucinda

 

Thank you Lucinda! I have seen the comments regarding composition in the 2nd edition of TWTM that I have and also put the 3rd edition on hold from my library. I was just wondering if anything has changed with the new 2011 edition, in that regard. Since SWB touched on it here I thought I would ask ;). I recently got a couple of the lectures but did not get that one yet. I will keep it in mind.

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While I understand the reasoning behind the delay of ALL, my frustration overrides my understanding at the moment. I am not able to spend large quantities of time on this board and therefore missed the announcement that ALL was being delayed. I placed an order via Amazon.com in early December and have been (not so) patiently waiting for it to arrive. :confused1:

 

Only when I received a notice from Amazon about the fact that they were currently unable to fulfill my order did I start digging and finally find - on page 10 of a 15-page thread - the announcement regarding the delay.

 

We have been making our way through R&S but doing so only in anticipation of ALL being sent. Had we known earlier that ALL had been delayed, we would have chosen a different approach.

 

I am grateful for the effort that goes into the curriculua - it is unrivaled in my opinion. The lack of communication is the frustrating part. I look forward to sharing ALL with my children when it finally comes out.

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We went through every possible channel to let readers know about the change, including multiple requests to Amazon to update their listing--unfortunately they are completely unresponsive to small publishers.

 

We share your frustration.

 

Moderator

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Now the bad news.

 

Advanced Language Lessons, Level 1, has hit a serious technical snag.

 

[...]

 

Unfortunately, this means that, for now, we’re going to have to cancel publication of the book.

 

I'm surprised that this information is buried on page 11 of a post on the Logic Stage board. An announcement on the Peace Hill Press website and a separate thread on the forum would have been very helpful. I've been to the WTM forum since the announcement was made, but had no idea publication was cancelled until I went digging for information today when I couldn't find anything at Peace Hill Press or on Amazon. We have been waiting for this to become available for purchase, unaware that it was put on (indefinite) hold months ago.

 

While I am disappointed, I can certainly understand the reasons behind the decision to cancel publication of ALL. However, in the future, better communication would be greatly appreciated.

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While I agree that a separate post pinned to the top of the board and a notice at Peace Hill Press would have been nice, there have been many questions about the program since the posting on page 11 here. And in all those instances, someone has responded letting the poster know that the program had been placed on an indefinite hold. The information was out there, it just might not have been made as obvious as it could have been.

Edited by Amy in CO

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You may want to listen to SWB's audio lecture, "A Plan for Teaching Writing: Focus on the Middle Grades". She explains in the lecture that with any of these programs you simply leave off the composition and use them for grammar only. Regardless of any edition of any of the suggested curriculums, the answer is the same: replace the composition exercises with either TWTM method of teaching writing (or use WWS).

 

I hope this helps, but I also encourage you to listen to the lecture because it is very helpful.

 

Blessings,

Lucinda

 

I just got the elementary grades lecture and listened to it. Wish I had listened to the lecture last year, before starting WWE :banghead:! I would have been a lot less pushy with my boy (the caveat of focusing too much on what others are saying there kids can do, here on the forums) and we would have had a lot less frustration! I had been making changes to my LA plans for next year anyway, so I am glad I at least listened to it now. It will help me figure out how to proceed next. I think I'll be getting the middle grades lecture soon also :). Anyway, thanks again for suggesting I listen to SWB's lectures on writing, and I did get why she recommends not using the composition portion of the grammar programs like Voyages and Shurley ;).

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What LEVEL of the suggested grammar texts is everyone using after finishing the available sample of ALL?

Also, would the original Catholic version of VIE (instead of the new, secular version) apply to the suggestions, or no?

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In the well trained mind there are books recommened for formal logic and puzzle solving will Advanced Language Lessons included these?

 

also I have a 4th grader doing WWE3 and FLL3, should i skip WWE4 and FLL4 and do Advanced Language Lessons and WWS?

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In the well trained mind there are books recommened for formal logic and puzzle solving will Advanced Language Lessons included these?

 

also I have a 4th grader doing WWE3 and FLL3, should i skip WWE4 and FLL4 and do Advanced Language Lessons and WWS?

 

Hi Mindy,

No, ALL doesn't include direct, formal logic instruction. You do know that it's release date has been put on hold indefinitely, right? Look upthread to see Susan's (the author) announcement about this. There was a significant sample of ALL available while it was in the works that some of us are still using, anyhow. I don't know if this is still available or not.

 

I have placement questions too, so I'm sorry I can't help much on your other question.

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Susan (preferably, or anyone who knows what she would say),

I've got a 5th grader zooming through FLL3 right now who is on track to finish FLL4 by September. At that point, this dc will be in 6th and will do the sample section of ALL. I plan to use R&S afterwards, but should I use grade 5 or 6 at that point?

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