TrixieB Posted August 16, 2011 Share Posted August 16, 2011 In the school supplies thread, I see several mentions of a graphing calculator. What is it used for? Do you input coordinates and it graphs them on a screen? I am wondering about it because I took math through calculus both in high school and in college, and this type of calculator was not required, or even mentioned. Perhaps it didn't exist back in the old days...? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fhjmom Posted August 16, 2011 Share Posted August 16, 2011 In the school supplies thread, I see several mentions of a graphing calculator. What is it used for? Do you input coordinates and it graphs them on a screen? I am wondering about it because I took math through calculus both in high school and in college, and this type of calculator was not required, or even mentioned. Perhaps it didn't exist back in the old days...? When I was in high school, a graphing calculator was only required in trig/EA. Now almost all high school math classes seem to require them. :P Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rosie_0801 Posted August 16, 2011 Share Posted August 16, 2011 (edited) So students can get the right answer without needing to know what they are doing? That was my experience of graphing calculators, anyway. Rosie- not a mathematician (yet) Edited August 16, 2011 by Rosie_0801 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AndyJoy Posted August 16, 2011 Share Posted August 16, 2011 So students can get the right answer without needing to know what they are doing? That was my experience of graphing calculators, anyway. Rosie- not a mathematician (yet) :iagree:So true in my experience. I took AP Calculus AB my senior year (1999-2000). According to the syllabus, we needed graphing calculators. Out of 18 students, one boy and I balked at spending $100 and asked the teacher if it was necessary. He was pleasantly surprised and said that no, they weren't really necessary and we would know the material better than most if we were willing to do it without the graphing calculator. Our teacher was right--that boy and I understood more than most and earned the highest grades in the course. It was a nearly daily occurrence for another student to hand his or her calculator to us and ask us to "show me how to do it." They didn't like our non-graphing calculator help because it was "too much work." Many of the students memorized how to plug things into the calculator rather than really learning the material. Unfortunately, my teacher was a first-year hire and had not prepared students for the AP test before. We found out just 2 days before the test that there were portions that were unsolvable without a graphing calculator. He loaned the boy and me classroom graphing calculators. After spending an hour or so trying to learn how to use it, I decided my time would be better spent studying. I was so stressed for that test! I used my non-graphing to approximate answers as best I could. I passed with a 3. I'll never know for sure how I would have done if I'd used a graphing calculator from the beginning. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
creekland Posted August 16, 2011 Share Posted August 16, 2011 Graphing calculators can do everything from graphing functions to solving matrices to statistic calculations. They've been a big boost at solving more difficult problems in all of the above (and more, of course). However, as has been mentioned before, the biggest problem I see working at our high school in math classes is that kids learn how to use the calculator and forget how to do the math (if they ever learned that part). IMO it IS important for kids to learn how to use them. I let my boys use them to check their work after they've done their work starting in Alg 1 (for portions of Alg 1 anyway). I only let them "use" them for problems that require it otherwise - and to learn "how" to use it, of course. Also IMO, the best teachers are those who give two portions of a test - a section without the calculator (traditional problems) and a section with it (problems hard enough to require one). We don't have any teachers like that in our school, but I've heard about them. We do have several teachers who skim over how to do problems by hand, then stress the calculator. Some of them even question why we teach things by hand anymore. :confused: Expect that possibility at school. I work to overcome it at home with my ps son. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
anissa Posted August 16, 2011 Share Posted August 16, 2011 For the past 2 years my ds has been told he needed this type of calculator for his honor's math classes. We never bought one and he aced the classes. Most of his classmates, however, were lost without a calculator. We are entering year 3 of honor's math (10th grade) and decided to get one - used. We spent $25 on Craigslist. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jennynd Posted August 16, 2011 Share Posted August 16, 2011 I went to school in taiwan and went to graduate school in US in mechanical engineering. And I NEVER own a graphing calculator. I still have my good old 20 years old calculator still sitting on my desk. I think it is not needed. But I guess kids nowadays are forced to use it for AP?? No wondering US sucks in Math Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
creekland Posted August 16, 2011 Share Posted August 16, 2011 I should add that our school provides these calculators for use in class to any student who doesn't have one, so while they are on the list of things to have, it's not 100% necessary for those who can't afford them. The only class they don't do this for is College Algebra (a dual enrolled college class). In that class if you don't have and bring your own you can't use one of the school's calculators. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bettyandbob Posted August 16, 2011 Share Posted August 16, 2011 This is something that has upset me for a while. Not only are kids using graphing calculators starting with Algebra I, most public school curriculum introduces use of calculators in 3rd grade. I never used a calculator in a math class ever. I used calculators in advanced physics and chemistry classes in college (not high school). In my part time teaching, I'm seeing algebra II students with no obvious LDs who don't understand basic operations (multiplication, fractions, etc). They've learned how to manipulate a calculator. But I digress. The SAT and SATII tests allow the use of graphing calculators now. My guess is, for some students mastery of the calculator will make a difference in SAT scores. So, do you need a calculator to learn the math. No. In fact from what I've seen it will hinder your progress. However, it appears not having a good grasp of all the functions on a graphing calculator could affect your post high school opportunities. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
catz Posted August 16, 2011 Share Posted August 16, 2011 I went to school in taiwan and went to graduate school in US in mechanical engineering. And I NEVER own a graphing calculator. I still have my good old 20 years old calculator still sitting on my desk.I think it is not needed. But I guess kids nowadays are forced to use it for AP?? No wondering US sucks in Math :iagree: I have a BS in Math, took grad level math classes earning a 2nd degree, and have never owned a graphing calculator. Seems ridiculous to me. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dana Posted August 16, 2011 Share Posted August 16, 2011 I've had graphing calculators since 89. It was a Casio back then, before TI had the stranglehold they currently have. In grad school I assisted with a calculus class where they used HPs (I never saw the love) and I have a TI now. They're great for quick computation (hello matrices). When I taught trig at the cc (wow... over a decade ago), I did give tests that were part without the calculator and then part with the calculator. I also clear programs before tests. I don't like the over-reliance on technology, especially at a low math level. There is one teacher at our cc who I argue with about technology use. :D He's a great guy, a good teacher, and I'd be happy with my son taking his course. He uses the graphing calculator in all his courses. But he does seem to do it effectively: as a lab where they use real data and see how that relates to the algebra they're learning in class. I know he does one lab where data is collected with the graphing calculator (drop a ball and the calculator (through an additional tool) records the height of the ball, then see the table, graph, and analyze the data). You can set up a split-screen so you see the table and the graph at the same time. This allows you to do a ton of computations and graphs that wouldn't be possible when graphing by hand. I can definitely see the purpose of using a graphing calculator as an investigative tool. I teach a low enough level math course at the cc that I don't have time to teach the calculator as well, and I definitely prefer students not use them in my courses (low level algebra). I likely will have my son using one though when he's up to algebra or when we start exploring with statistics (there's another place the calculator is really needed). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
In The Great White North Posted August 16, 2011 Share Posted August 16, 2011 Of course, you can do calculus without one. But you cannot do the problem that starts "Enter this equation into your graphing calculator and zoom to x..." Unfortunately, these types of problems do exist on the AP Calculus test. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
momofkhm Posted August 16, 2011 Share Posted August 16, 2011 :iagree: I have a BS in Math, took grad level math classes earning a 2nd degree, and have never owned a graphing calculator. Seems ridiculous to me. I think this is dh as well. He has a BS in math and physics and never owned a graphing calculator. His masters is in computers so maybe he programed the computer himself? :tongue_smilie: Not really! Interesting thread though. I bought dd a $10-20 calculator. She's only in Saxon Advanced math, probably won't take the AP test, and she's doing fine with what she has. I need to buy another calculator next year so both dd's have their own. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
creekland Posted August 16, 2011 Share Posted August 16, 2011 Not only are kids using graphing calculators starting with Algebra I, most public school curriculum introduces use of calculators in 3rd grade. In our ps this is first grade. They use Everyday Math. In my part time teaching, I'm seeing algebra II students with no obvious LDs who don't understand basic operations (multiplication, fractions, etc). They've learned how to manipulate a calculator. This is what I'm seeing too, and yes, it's sad. But I digress. The SAT and SATII tests allow the use of graphing calculators now. My guess is, for some students mastery of the calculator will make a difference in SAT scores. So, do you need a calculator to learn the math. No. In fact from what I've seen it will hinder your progress. However, it appears not having a good grasp of all the functions on a graphing calculator could affect your post high school opportunities. I think a regular calculator is fine for the SAT/ACT, but my kids took the graphing calc as that was the one they were most familiar with at the time. The AP Calc or Stats test is a totally different deal. The graphing calculators are required for those or one won't do well. Personally, I don't even know how to use the graphing calculator for stats as I never learned it. But my middle son was able to totally self study the course and got a 5 on the test. Now I can go to him when I need stats/calculator help. ;) I had to learn to do regular math and some calc on the graphing calculators in order to work subbing math at our high school. When I'm in the stats class I stick to showing them the pen and paper way and concepts. The regular teacher knows this and is ok with it. He says he likes that I show them how... a few kids take interest in the actual "how." Most want to know what buttons to push. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
In The Great White North Posted August 16, 2011 Share Posted August 16, 2011 I went to school in taiwan and went to graduate school in US in mechanical engineering. And I NEVER own a graphing calculator. I still have my good old 20 years old calculator still sitting on my desk.I think it is not needed. But I guess kids nowadays are forced to use it for AP?? No wondering US sucks in Math My dad went to college for mechanical engineering without a graphing calculator. I have his college slide rule. :D Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KungFuPanda Posted August 16, 2011 Share Posted August 16, 2011 In the school supplies thread, I see several mentions of a graphing calculator. What is it used for? Do you input coordinates and it graphs them on a screen? I am wondering about it because I took math through calculus both in high school and in college, and this type of calculator was not required, or even mentioned. Perhaps it didn't exist back in the old days...? DH once taught an algebra course at a community college. The textbook was written by Texas Instruments and administrators observed the classroom and evaluated teachers based upon whether or not they used 'technology in the classroom." DH lost points because he somewhat ignored the calculator in an effort to get students to understand what they were doing. He got interrogated for this. They were not impressed with his insistence that chalk and a chalkboard ARE technology too (He has a whole speech. They were not amused.) They really didn't like that he designed some test questions to weed out the button pushers from the students who understood WHY they were pushing those buttons. He wasn't fired over it, but after two semesters it was one of the reasons he swore NEVER to teach at a community college again. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Caroline Posted August 17, 2011 Share Posted August 17, 2011 Of course, you can do calculus without one. But you cannot do the problem that starts "Enter this equation into your graphing calculator and zoom to x..." Unfortunately, these types of problems do exist on the AP Calculus test. No they don't. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chepyl Posted August 17, 2011 Share Posted August 17, 2011 We started using graphing calculators in 8th grade for Algebra. We had not been allowed to use any calculator before that. Every year, through calculus (including trig) we had portions of EVERY test for which calculators were not allowed. I took business calculus in college. We had the textbook from TI. We learned o program a calculator to do ALL problems! I left my calculator at home one weekend and had an 8 am test. I borrowed my roommates calculator, but did not have any programing in it. I just used it for computations with ling decimals. I was able to take the test and earn a passing grade, but I did not have the exact answer from the calculator, so I lost points. I was so mad! I KNEW more about the math that our TA that graded the tests! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
In The Great White North Posted August 17, 2011 Share Posted August 17, 2011 Quote: Originally Posted by In The Great White North Of course, you can do calculus without one. But you cannot do the problem that starts "Enter this equation into your graphing calculator and zoom to x..." Unfortunately, these types of problems do exist on the AP Calculus test. No they don't. Glad to hear that. It came from some of the prep materials when ds was taking calculus. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cindy in C-ville Posted August 17, 2011 Share Posted August 17, 2011 I don't know, but I just bought 3 TI-83s from Craigslist for three of my children, including the one who just started college. Hers was stolen last year. I was able to get them for $35, $40, and $40. So, if you decide you need one, look on Craigslist. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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