Mothers of boys, help me out here

[Sahamamama]

Sigh. I'd like to know if I have an unreasonable expectation for my nephews (my sister's sons) in regard to our gift-giving. When they were very little, my sister used to have them write thank you notes for gifts we gave them at birthdays and Christmas time.

 

For about the past 5 or 6 years, we've given gifts without hearing a word of thanks -- not even a mumbled "thanks" when the gift is given. Last Christmas, as they opened their presents, their father finally was embarrassed enough to prompt them, "Say thanks to your aunt and uncle!" So last Christmas we did hear a mumbled thanks from one of the boys.

 

I am discouraged. I used to be close to these boys, and I still care about them, I suppose... but it's discouraging to feel we have no relationship with them from their perspective, other than being the aunt and uncle who put money in cards or pajamas in boxes. There's no... respect? gratitude? warmth? connection?

 

Last year for their birthdays (13 & 15), we gave them nice gifts, even though we were struggling financially. Nothing super-expensive, just well-thought-out, if you KWIM. We don't give gifts so we can hear a "thank you," but it feels as though the boys take the money and run, without acknowledging there's a relationship involved.

 

This summer, my sister had an impromptu graduation party for her second son's completion of 8th grade. We gave a gift and brought food to the party. We've also given birthday gifts (money) to both nephews this summer. There is this part of me that feels this summer's gifts will be the last time we give them anything for a while.

 

I even had a hard time writing "Dear ________" or "Love, Aunt _____" on the card. :001_huh: They just don't feel "dear" to me, and it's painful to admit that.

 

When I look back at my teen years, there was never a time my sister and I received a gift that we didn't acknowledge it with a heartfelt expression of thankfulness -- and we always wrote thank you notes to grandparents, aunts & uncles, and anyone else who gave us a gift. I'm also trying to imagine how my sister would feel if we didn't thank her for the gifts she gives to our children? :confused: I haven't tried this, because (a) it is passive-aggressive, and (b) it sends the wrong message to my own children.

 

My question: Is it a reasonable expectation that 14 and 16 year old boys who live a mile away should at least call to say thanks and/or write a little note to say thanks?

 

Also: What would you do?

[Old Dominion Heather]

I think it depends on whether the gift is given in person. If it is, and it is from a relative, my boys don't write thank you notes because they are able to thank that person in person. Often that looks like a quick "Thank you for the money, Grandma!" or even "Thanks!" But no card is written for gifts given in person, especially for someone who lives so close.

 

Now, if you send the gift, the boys will either write a note or the giver will get a quick phone call to say thanks.

 

I ALWAYS have to prompt the boys (or remind them before they get gifts) to remember to thank people, and my guys are nice, loving kids, so I don't think that means that they are ungrateful or spoiled. They are forgetful and excitable and SHY and AWKWARD.

 

The exception to the above is if they have a birthday party for friends. Then I try to remember to have them write thank you cards to their buddies.

Edited August 15, 2011 by Old Dominion Heather

[Live2Ride]

It is not unreasonable for a person to thank another person (either in person, by phone, or note) for taking the time out of their day to think about them enough to send money, a card, or a gift.

 

I have had my kids do this since they were young. All of our family members live across the US and it's important for me to let them know that the gift/card was received. I know they appreciate it and have told the kids thankyou for doing so.

[Rebecca VA]

Can you talk with your sister about this? If one of my children were being so offensive that a relative had to write about it on a message board (no offense intended), I'd want to know!

[unsinkable]

I think it is reasonable to expect thank-yous for gifts.

 

Unless there are other circumstances that you haven't written about, though, it's not a hill I'd die over if I didn't receive thank-yous.

 

I wouldn't dislike someone or end a relationship ONLY over no thank-yous.

 

P.S. This has nothing to do with them being boys any more than it does with you being a woman.

 

P.P.S. Given the history of this board, most people are going to see things your way.

Edited August 15, 2011 by unsinkable

[Aggie]

Personally, I would stop giving gifts.

 

OR I would point-blank tell them, "I would like a thank-you when we give a gift." It sounds like they haven't been taught to say or write a heart-felt thank-you. IMO, it's ok to tell them you expect one.

 

Then I would concentrate on building a relationship with the young men. Dinner out, mini-golf, something casual but where we could talk, ie not a movie.

 

If they've not been taught to communicate with adults, it might be very hard for them to do so. Give them time to get to know you.

[Pretty in Pink]

IMO it has absolutely nothing to do with the gender of the children in question. Really. Their parents are either no longer reminding/requiring them to write thank you notes or they are not following up to make sure that it is done. As for not saying thank you when you are sitting right there, well, that is incredibly rude and the responsibility falls to the parents. I mean, according to your math, the kids quit saying thanks around ages 7 & 9? The parents should have reminded them!

[Parker Martin]

I would find it odd if they didn't say thank you when opening a gift in person. All the same, I don't think I'd be tempted to put the brakes on my relationships with my nephews over expressions of thanks. I would just assume that they hadn't been taught proper manners, not that they didn't like me.

[Spryte]

What would I do? ...Give them a box of thank you notes, as their next gift? :tongue_smilie:

 

Yes, I think it's reasonable to hope for a call or a thank you note, if you send the gift. I think it's clear you can't expect one though, unfortunately. Maybe when you see them, if it's not too awkward you could ask them in person if they liked the gifts? Maybe that will give them the opening to say thank you.

 

This isn't confined to boys. I have 3 adult nieces who have never sent thank you notes, and never mention having received gifts at all. I put a lot of thought into their gifts, and so spent years feeling hurt about this. I don't need a card, but just to know that they received the gifts would be nice. Last year, I did not send them Christmas gifts at all (total disclosure - I was also trying to cut down our gift list a bit). But, you know, *not* giving the gifts hurt me probably more than it did my nieces. And this year, I am planning gifts for them again, with the expectation that I'll never hear a word about the packages we send.

[twoforjoy]

I used to be close to these boys, and I still care about them, I suppose... but it's discouraging to feel we have no relationship with them from their perspective, other than being the aunt and uncle who put money in cards or pajamas in boxes. There's no... respect? gratitude? warmth? connection?

 

Is your relationship with them anything more than giving them gifts? It's not clear from your post. Outside of holiday gift-giving, do you spend much time with them? If you don't, then I don't think it's surprising that they wouldn't feel much gratitude, warmth, or connection, or that they might feel awkward about thank yous, especially at their ages.

 

I know I always felt kind of awkward around my aunts and uncles who we only saw at holidays. When I was a teen, I absolutely would have felt awkward about how to thank them for a gift.

 

I don't know, I'm not one to make getting a thank you for a gift a relational hill to die on, at all. When I give somebody a gift, I'm giving it without expecting anything in return, including a thank you.

 

I guess to me it sounds like there are two ways to handle this. You could just stop giving them gifts because their lack of expressed gratitude bothers you so much, and, I'm getting the sense, effectively cut off most of the contact you have with them. Or you can work on building a stronger relationship with them, outside of holiday and birthday gift-giving, despite your annoyance at their lack of expressed gratitude, and then maybe they'll feel more comfortable expressing thanks.

 

But, personally, I really don't think there's anything unusual about a teenager being reticent with thanks when receiving gifts from relatives they aren't close to. I guess what comes through to me most from your post is the fact that you seem to feel distant from your nephews, and unwilling to really be in a relationship with them, because you are so upset about their lack of expressed thankfulness for your gifts to them. Without sounding too harsh, IMO you're the adult in the situation, and if you want real thanks from them you'll probably need a real relationship with them, and as the adult you're going to have to be the one to pursue that.

Edited August 15, 2011 by twoforjoy

[katilac]

Another vote that it has nothing to do with being a boy. :confused:

 

Of course they should thank you. If I'm thanked in person by a niece/nephew, I don't routinely expect or really desire a follow-up note or phone call. For my own kids/self, we will often email a photo of the gift in use or mention that it is a favorite, etc.

 

What would I do? Personally, I might switch to token gifts that don't require as much thought or expense. Lecturing or cutting off gifts wouldn't help and would have the potential for great family issues, but at the same time building up resentment isn't good for long-term relationships. Ergo, token gifts.

[Lily_Grace]

IMO it has absolutely nothing to do with the gender of the children in question. Really. Their parents are either no longer reminding/requiring them to write thank you notes or they are not following up to make sure that it is done. As for not saying thank you when you are sitting right there, well, that is incredibly rude and the responsibility falls to the parents. I mean, according to your math, the kids quit saying thanks around ages 7 & 9? The parents should have reminded them!

 

This.

 

We have a policy in our house that the gift is not used until the thank you note is written (exceptions being things like tickets or experiences). There was a toy that sat for a week on the kitchen counter because no thank you note was forth-coming. They are required in our house.

 

A child in his teens not even saying thank you? I wouldn't be giving a gift at this point. If they ask when you show up empty handed shrug and say, "oh, I didn't even think you noticed. I never heard anything back from you before on how you liked your other gifts."

 

I'm not usually one to draw such a hard line, but obviously the gift giving has become a task for you and isn't something you feel good about doing. That's the point I drop something. I give because I want to, and if I don't feel it's appreciated I don't give.

 

On the other hand, because this has become such an issue, I think you should try to find time to take the boys out individually once in a while. Give them a dinner one on one or take one to an event or even just hang out over a sundae at DQ. In other words, date them. It sounds like it would be a great thing for both of them and you to reconnect and get to know each other as more than just "Ungrateful Child" and "Lady who puts Pajamas In Boxes". :D

[8circles]

I think it is reasonable to expect thank-yous for gifts.

 

Unless there are other circumstances that you haven't written about, though, it's not a hill I'd die over if I didn't receive thank-yous.

 

I wouldn't dislike someone or end a relationship ONLY over no thank-yous.

 

P.S. This has nothing to do with them being boys any more than it does with you being a woman.

 

P.P.S. Given the history of this board, most people are going to see things your way.

:iagree:Especially the bold.

[texasmama]

I think it is about the age and the awkwardness of having relationships with an aunt and uncle. I'm sure I (as a girl, even) did some things like this growing up to aunts and uncles and appeared to be an ingrate. During my adolescence, my extended family relationships felt exquisitely awkward to me, in a terribly painful sort of way. They don't now, of course, but I'm old. :D While your nephews are not following proper etiquette, I don't know that I would expect it at this age. I have a 16 year old nephew who is a good kid but a bit shy, and it pains him to speak to me.:lol: BTW, my 16 year old dd falls into this category often, too, with extended family, so I don't think this is gender related so much as age related. It should pass, and I would just sprinkle a lot of grace on it in the meantime.

[lukebar]

Of course, the bigger issue is that children learn gratitude. Manners are important and have their place in society, but it's a comparatively easy thing to teach a child to say thank you when they receive a gift. Of course, if you genuinely FEEL grateful when receiving a gift, the thank you comes without prompting.

 

When a child doesn't say thank you, it is likely because they really aren't feeling it. That's a much thornier issue to address.

[Tammyla]

I hear you:bigear:. My sil's kids...never wrote thank you notes, called or emailed a thank you. I purchased, wrapped, packaged and mailed gifts for each of her three children until they turned 18. Now, I also sent the graduation, wedding and a shower gifts. (Many were mailed from overseas or across the country, and to know when to toss the mailing insurance was a concern as well as...well...you know...just knowing the gift arrived:001_huh:.)

 

My new sop is as follows. Give or send gift, receive thank you of some kind from the recipient and that person stays on my list...No thank you...no gift.

 

Personally, I think the parents are more responsible than the kids, and many learn by example...unfortunately. Teens are old enough to at least say a heart felt thank you in person. My ds and dd are required to say thank you, and write a thank you note. I often have to place the card in front of them and insist they write it, but they do. In person they don't need me to remind them.

 

Sigh. I'd like to know if I have an unreasonable expectation for my nephews (my sister's sons) in regard to our gift-giving. When they were very little, my sister used to have them write thank you notes for gifts we gave them at birthdays and Christmas time.

 

For about the past 5 or 6 years, we've given gifts without hearing a word of thanks -- not even a mumbled "thanks" when the gift is given. Last Christmas, as they opened their presents, their father finally was embarrassed enough to prompt them, "Say thanks to your aunt and uncle!" So last Christmas we did hear a mumbled thanks from one of the boys.

 

I am discouraged. I used to be close to these boys, and I still care about them, I suppose... but it's discouraging to feel we have no relationship with them from their perspective, other than being the aunt and uncle who put money in cards or pajamas in boxes. There's no... respect? gratitude? warmth? connection?

 

Last year for their birthdays (13 & 15), we gave them nice gifts, even though we were struggling financially. Nothing super-expensive, just well-thought-out, if you KWIM. We don't give gifts so we can hear a "thank you," but it feels as though the boys take the money and run, without acknowledging there's a relationship involved.

 

This summer, my sister had an impromptu graduation party for her second son's completion of 8th grade. We gave a gift and brought food to the party. We've also given birthday gifts (money) to both nephews this summer. There is this part of me that feels this summer's gifts will be the last time we give them anything for a while.

 

I even had a hard time writing "Dear ________" or "Love, Aunt _____" on the card. :001_huh: They just don't feel "dear" to me, and it's painful to admit that.

 

When I look back at my teen years, there was never a time my sister and I received a gift that we didn't acknowledge it with a heartfelt expression of thankfulness -- and we always wrote thank you notes to grandparents, aunts & uncles, and anyone else who gave us a gift. I'm also trying to imagine how my sister would feel if we didn't thank her for the gifts she gives to our children? :confused: I haven't tried this, because (a) it is passive-aggressive, and (b) it sends the wrong message to my own children.

 

My question: Is it a reasonable expectation that 14 and 16 year old boys who live a mile away should at least call to say thanks and/or write a little note to say thanks?

 

Also: What would you do?

Edited August 15, 2011 by Tammyla

[Sahamamama]

Can you talk with your sister about this? If one of my children were being so offensive that a relative had to write about it on a message board (no offense intended), I'd want to know!

 

Well, no, not really, I can't talk to my sister about much of anything meaningful. She, um... explodes? Yeah.

 

Personally, I would stop giving gifts.

 

OR I would point-blank tell them, "I would like a thank-you when we give a gift." It sounds like they haven't been taught to say or write a heart-felt thank-you. IMO, it's ok to tell them you expect one.

 

Then I would concentrate on building a relationship with the young men. Dinner out, mini-golf, something casual but where we could talk, ie not a movie.

 

If they've not been taught to communicate with adults, it might be very hard for them to do so. Give them time to get to know you.

 

Thank you for these ideas. We've thought about investing ourselves into building a relationship with these boys, but in our hearts we know this would be completely futile. And, because of my sister's behavior towards me in the past, my husband would never "allow" it, anyway. So I suppose the boys have picked up on the distance between their mother and their aunt (me). But they were never taught to thank us, even before their mother exploded all over the extended family (including my parents).

 

IMO it has absolutely nothing to do with the gender of the children in question. Really. Their parents are either no longer reminding/requiring them to write thank you notes or they are not following up to make sure that it is done. As for not saying thank you when you are sitting right there, well, that is incredibly rude and the responsibility falls to the parents. I mean, according to your math, the kids quit saying thanks around ages 7 & 9? The parents should have reminded them!

 

I agree, it isn't really about them being boys. When I was single (and worked with little kids -- teacher, then social worker), my sister used to ask me my opinion about something child-related. I'd share my perspective, then she say, "But you can't possibly know anything, because you're not a mother." :001_huh: When I became a mother, I thought it was safe again. :glare: She'd ask me a question about one of her boys, and then say, "But you can't possibly know anything, because you don't have boys."

 

Sigh. My husband thinks I should ask her something, then come back with, "You can't possibly understand, you don't have TWINS." But I will never use my twins that way. Yuck.

I think the issue is with your sister, not your nephews.

 

I know. I was just hoping there was an encouraging way to see this.

 

Thanks, everyone, for your feedback. I'm just discouraged, I guess.

[Sahamamama]

Is your relationship with them anything more than giving them gifts? It's not clear from your post. Outside of holiday gift-giving, do you spend much time with them? If you don't, then I don't think it's surprising that they wouldn't feel much gratitude, warmth, or connection, or that they might feel awkward about thank yous, especially at their ages.

 

I know I always felt kind of awkward around my aunts and uncles who we only saw at holidays. When I was a teen, I absolutely would have felt awkward about how to thank them for a gift.

 

I don't know, I'm not one to make getting a thank you for a gift a relational hill to die on, at all. When I give somebody a gift, I'm giving it without expecting anything in return, including a thank you.

 

I guess to me it sounds like there are two ways to handle this. You could just stop giving them gifts because their lack of expressed gratitude bothers you so much, and, I'm getting the sense, effectively cut off most of the contact you have with them. Or you can work on building a stronger relationship with them, outside of holiday and birthday gift-giving, despite your annoyance at their lack of expressed gratitude, and then maybe they'll feel more comfortable expressing thanks.

 

But, personally, I really don't think there's anything unusual about a teenager being reticent with thanks when receiving gifts from relatives they aren't close to. I guess what comes through to me most from your post is the fact that you seem to feel distant from your nephews, and unwilling to really be in a relationship with them, because you are so upset about their lack of expressed thankfulness for your gifts to them. Without sounding too harsh, IMO you're the adult in the situation, and if you want real thanks from them you'll probably need a real relationship with them, and as the adult you're going to have to be the one to pursue that.

 

No, this is not how it is. We live just over a mile apart from each other, and we see these boys every week. We've been to every family dinner, birthday party, baptism party, graduation party, Christmas, Easter, Thanksgiving, Fourth of July, Memorial Day, etc. picnic you can name, we've tutored them, bathed them (when they were little), and even went to the same church with them for years. Their little sister plays with our three girls all the time.

 

They know us, they simply don't thank anyone for anything. When they were 10, 11, 12, I suppose I could chalk it up to poor parenting. But now they are old enough to think for themselves, at least the 16 year old is. My sister and brother-in-law will never tell their son to write (or at least say) a thank you for a gift.

 

And, no, in real life, it has nothing to do with being a boy, but in my sister's world, I can't possibly understand boys, because I don't have any. :tongue_smilie:

[catz]

I think the issue is with your sister, not your nephews.

 

:iagree: IMHO, this is a parenting issue.

[unsinkable]

No, this is not how it is. We live just over a mile apart from each other, and we see these boys every week. We've been to every family dinner, birthday party, baptism party, graduation party, Christmas, Easter, Thanksgiving, Fourth of July, Memorial Day, etc. picnic you can name, we've tutored them, bathed them (when they were little), and even went to the same church with them for years. Their little sister plays with our three girls all the time.

 

They know us, they simply don't thank anyone for anything. When they were 10, 11, 12, I suppose I could chalk it up to poor parenting. But now they are old enough to think for themselves, at least the 16 year old is. My sister and brother-in-law will never tell their son to write (or at least say) a thank you for a gift.

 

And, no, in real life, it has nothing to do with being a boy, but in my sister's world, I can't possibly understand boys, because I don't have any. :tongue_smilie:

 

You wrote in the first post that the dad did tell the child to say thank you. :confused:

[catz]

No, this is not how it is. We live just over a mile apart from each other, and we see these boys every week. We've been to every family dinner, birthday party, baptism party, graduation party, Christmas, Easter, Thanksgiving, Fourth of July, Memorial Day, etc. picnic you can name, we've tutored them, bathed them (when they were little), and even went to the same church with them for years. Their little sister plays with our three girls all the time.

 

They know us, they simply don't thank anyone for anything. When they were 10, 11, 12, I suppose I could chalk it up to poor parenting. But now they are old enough to think for themselves, at least the 16 year old is. My sister and brother-in-law will never tell their son to write (or at least say) a thank you for a gift.

 

And, no, in real life, it has nothing to do with being a boy, but in my sister's world, I can't possibly understand boys, because I don't have any. :tongue_smilie:

 

LOL - it certainly doesn't have anything to do with being a boy. If anything the boy at this house exudes more gratitude naturally than the girl! I still think instilling some common courtesy and gratitude over the years and into the teen years is just good parenting. I think part of parenting is reminding your kid to write a thank you note! Once they move out, it's out of my hands but until that time I'll keep reminding.

 

I totally feel your pain. My DH has 3 nieces that are just like this. They barely look at any of the adults and talk to them in coherent sentences. They all plug into their technology when we're together as a group. Drives me bananas. And how's that for proving it has nothing to do with boys vs. girls? ;)

[Old Dominion Heather]

Thank you for these ideas. We've thought about investing ourselves into building a relationship with these boys, but in our hearts we know this would be completely futile. And, because of my sister's behavior towards me in the past, my husband would never "allow" it, anyway. So I suppose the boys have picked up on the distance between their mother and their aunt (me). But they were never taught to thank us, even before their mother exploded all over the extended family (including my parents).

 

 

This is incredibly sad. Unless your sister is in some way abusive or your nephews are dangerous, how can you say that your investing in that relationship is "completely futile?" Is love shown to a kid EVER futile?

 

Is it worth not investing in your family (and yes, they are your family) just because you didn't get a note??

 

The part about your husband not "allowing it"? Umm... I don't even know what to say. I am sorry that your sister is hard to deal with. But I don't even know what to say about the "not allow it" stuff. That dynamic is not something for which I have any frame of reference.

[twoforjoy]

I totally feel your pain. My DH has 3 nieces that are just like this. They barely look at any of the adults and talk to them in coherent sentences. They all plug into their technology when we're together as a group. Drives me bananas. And how's that for proving it has nothing to do with boys vs. girls? ;)

 

That's teens. I used to grab a book or a magazine when I was visiting with extended family, and spend the time reading. I had one aunt I was close to, but even though I saw most of my aunts and uncles on a pretty regular basis, we didn't know each other well, we weren't close, and it was just awkward being around them. I didn't know how to relate to them, and it was just easier to find a place to read and tune out. Honestly, they never seemed particularly interested in relating to me--aside from the one aunt I was close to, who did show a real interest in my life--and so I'm not sure why I would have been expected to know how to navigate that relationship.

[Sahamamama]

You wrote in the first post that the dad did tell the child to say thank you. :confused:

 

Yes, once in 15 years.

[Tree House Academy]

Truly, I would put the blame toward the parents for not teaching the kids that this is what is done. The kids have no way of knowing if the parents do not teach them this courtesy. Once the kids are adults, then yes, it is their responsibility...but not at ages 13 and 15. The fact that you feel ill toward the children bothers me a bit.

 

I would talk to your sister and mention it. I would tell her that a "thank you" would be nice and that you feel like maybe your gifts are not appreciated and that you would like to stop giving gifts if you are not going to be thanked properly. Then actually stop if things don't change.

 

I have to admit that many, many, many parents do not teach this common courtesy. I have given more graduation gifts than I care to mention to kids who never even said, "thank you." However, I always fault the parents for not teaching the courtesy and not so much the kids.

Edited August 15, 2011 by Tree House Academy

[unsinkable]

Yes, once in 15 years.

 

Good luck to you!

[Sahamamama]

This is incredibly sad. Unless your sister is in some way abusive or your nephews are dangerous, how can you say that your investing in that relationship is "completely futile?" Is love shown to a kid EVER futile?

 

Is it worth not investing in your family (and yes, they are your family) just because you didn't get a note??

 

The part about your husband not "allowing it"? Umm... I don't even know what to say. I am sorry that your sister is hard to deal with. But I don't even know what to say about the "not allow it" stuff. That dynamic is not something for which I have any frame of reference.

 

It goes back to the abuse early in their marriage, back to when I asked her point blank, "Has he ever hit you?" and she would not answer me at all. (The answer was yes).

 

It goes back to the over-investment we all made into trying to salvage the wreck of her life, her boys (when they were little), and how I think they both still have shame and embarrassment about their failures. This manifests as anger -- that is, they both blow up, quite unpredictably.

 

It goes back to the day when she watched my husband get up to change our daughter's diaper -- something her husband NEVER did, not once, for three children. I remember the look on her face, and it was a terrible envy.

 

It goes back to having my sister screaming every hateful thing she could think of, at the top of her lungs, while standing on our front porch. It goes back to her swearing that she was "through with" us, would never speak to us again, would never come to our house again, and on and on. It goes back to how I was shaking when she left.

 

No one in the extended family has ever understood these episodes. My husband doesn't "allow" -- let me rephrase -- he reminds me how futile it has been for us to invest in those boys because, although their parents don't always control them, we are clearly NOT their parents. Nor are we surrogates. Example: I've seen the oldest boy SLAP his grandfather -- my father -- and his own father sat there watching and did NOTHING. Makes us want to pull our hair out, but they are not our kids.

 

So although we try to keep things going for my parents' sake, although we would like things to be different, they are the way they are, and it is best for us to accept this.

[DianeW88]

It goes back to the abuse early in their marriage, back to when I asked her point blank, "Has he ever hit you?" and she would not answer me at all. (The answer was yes).

 

It goes back to the over-investment we all made into trying to salvage the wreck of her life, her boys (when they were little), and how I think they both still have shame and embarrassment about their failures. This manifests as anger -- that is, they both blow up, quite unpredictably.

 

It goes back to the day when she watched my husband get up to change our daughter's diaper -- something her husband NEVER did, not once, for three children. I remember the look on her face, and it was a terrible envy.

 

It goes back to having my sister screaming every hateful thing she could think of, at the top of her lungs, while standing on our front porch. It goes back to her swearing that she was "through with" us, would never speak to us again, would never come to our house again, and on and on. It goes back to how I was shaking when she left.

 

No one in the extended family has ever understood these episodes. My husband doesn't "allow" -- let me rephrase -- he reminds me how futile it has been for us to invest in those boys because, although their parents don't always control them, we are clearly NOT their parents. Nor are we surrogates. Example: I've seen the oldest boy SLAP his grandfather -- my father -- and his own father sat there watching and did NOTHING. Makes us want to pull our hair out, but they are not our kids.

 

So although we try to keep things going for my parents' sake, although we would like things to be different, they are the way they are, and it is best for us to accept this.

 

Well, clearly these boys need a good example and unconditional love from someone in their family. Maybe your family can be the one to provide it consistently and without reservation or expectation of something (even a thank you) in return. You have no idea how much of an impact that can make in their lives and maybe even change their futures for the better when they are old enough to look back and have perspective. You may be the exact role models that they need. If you could continue to give lovingly and cheerfully and look at it as an investment in the future of your extended family, that might just be the best gift you could ever give them.

[Tree House Academy]

Example: I've seen the oldest boy SLAP his grandfather -- my father -- and his own father sat there watching and did NOTHING. Makes us want to pull our hair out, but they are not our kids.

 

:001_huh::confused: I wouldn't care if they were my kids or not...they hit grandpa and I would make them regret it(if he didn't/couldn't)! No way would that be happening in my family. We just wouldn't stand for it...and I would hope to God my sister would lay the smack down on my kids if they were ever that disrespectful to MY parents!

Edited August 15, 2011 by Tree House Academy

[Old Dominion Heather]

It goes back to the abuse early in their marriage, back to when I asked her point blank, "Has he ever hit you?" and she would not answer me at all. (The answer was yes).

 

It goes back to the over-investment we all made into trying to salvage the wreck of her life, her boys (when they were little), and how I think they both still have shame and embarrassment about their failures. This manifests as anger -- that is, they both blow up, quite unpredictably.

 

It goes back to the day when she watched my husband get up to change our daughter's diaper -- something her husband NEVER did, not once, for three children. I remember the look on her face, and it was a terrible envy.

 

It goes back to having my sister screaming every hateful thing she could think of, at the top of her lungs, while standing on our front porch. It goes back to her swearing that she was "through with" us, would never speak to us again, would never come to our house again, and on and on. It goes back to how I was shaking when she left.

 

No one in the extended family has ever understood these episodes. My husband doesn't "allow" -- let me rephrase -- he reminds me how futile it has been for us to invest in those boys because, although their parents don't always control them, we are clearly NOT their parents. Nor are we surrogates. Example: I've seen the oldest boy SLAP his grandfather -- my father -- and his own father sat there watching and did NOTHING. Makes us want to pull our hair out, but they are not our kids.

 

So although we try to keep things going for my parents' sake, although we would like things to be different, they are the way they are, and it is best for us to accept this.

 

 

If these are the issues in your sister's home: domestic abuse and mental disorder, then IMO the thank you note thing is the least of your worries.

 

:confused:

[Old Dominion Heather]

Well, clearly these boys need a good example and unconditional love from someone in their family. Maybe your family can be the one to provide it consistently and without reservation or expectation of something (even a thank you) in return. You have no idea how much of an impact that can make in their lives and maybe even change their futures for the better when they are old enough to look back and have perspective. You may be the exact role models that they need. If you could continue to give lovingly and cheerfully and look at it as an investment in the future of your extended family, that might just be the best gift you could ever give them.

 

:iagree: Don't just write them all off as lost causes.

[Old Dominion Heather]

:001_huh::confused: I wouldn't care if they were my kids or not...they hit grandpa and I would make them regret (if he didn't/couldn't)! No way would that be happening in my family. We just wouldn't stand for it...and I would hope to God my sister would lay the smack down on my kids if they were ever that disrespectful to MY parents!

 

Yeah, I'm not getting this. Either the kid was old enough for this to be assault, in which case the police should have been called, or he wasn't and it was just a discipline issue.

 

You have already said that the dad is abusive to your sister. Maybe the kid was just imitating what he had done to him.

[8circles]

If these are the issues in your sister's home: domestic abuse and mental disorder, then IMO the thank you note thing is the least of your worries.

 

:confused:

:iagree::iagree::iagree::iagree:

[twoforjoy]

If these are the issues in your sister's home: domestic abuse and mental disorder, then IMO the thank you note thing is the least of your worries.

 

:confused:

 

This. It sounds like this is a very tangential issue, given the situation overall. It also sounds to me like these kids (and probably the sister) could really use some grace, understanding, and attempts at relationship.

[Penny_P]

I haven't read all the replies, but I have a brother/sil who never thank people. They didn't send thank you notes after their wedding, even. I think, in part, it's because they were never trained. DB was raised by my dad who would never write a note. Admittedly, SIL comes from a very difficult background- he's just a shmuck I guess. I stopped even sending him a birthday present because he never even bothered to CALL on my birthday. My aunt who has very little money and is very old school (she sends thank you notes for nice conversations on the phone), stopped sending gifts, too. He finally got the hint and will now call on birthdays and say thank you. He's 30 for goodness sakes. SIL still doesn't but I honestly don't think she has a clue and I cut her a lot of slack for a variety of reasons.

 

Can you talk to their parents?

[black_midori]

If you feel like your relationship is just "gift-giver" - why don't you stop giving material gifts? Take them out to laser-tag or go-karts or a favorite movie or something - whatever you find out they are interested in. You have the joy of being close to them physically - take advantage of it! That is the way to get a better relationship.

[Tree House Academy]

If these are the issues in your sister's home: domestic abuse and mental disorder, then IMO the thank you note thing is the least of your worries.

 

:confused:

 

:iagree: Absolutely! And how sad for those boys! They did not choose that. If anything, I would reach out to them more. If dad abuses mom, do you think he goes easy on his BOYS? No way! Poor kids!

[Meriwether]

It goes back to the abuse early in their marriage, back to when I asked her point blank, "Has he ever hit you?" and she would not answer me at all. (The answer was yes).

 

It goes back to the over-investment we all made into trying to salvage the wreck of her life, her boys (when they were little), and how I think they both still have shame and embarrassment about their failures. This manifests as anger -- that is, they both blow up, quite unpredictably.

 

It goes back to the day when she watched my husband get up to change our daughter's diaper -- something her husband NEVER did, not once, for three children. I remember the look on her face, and it was a terrible envy.

 

It goes back to having my sister screaming every hateful thing she could think of, at the top of her lungs, while standing on our front porch. It goes back to her swearing that she was "through with" us, would never speak to us again, would never come to our house again, and on and on. It goes back to how I was shaking when she left.

 

No one in the extended family has ever understood these episodes. My husband doesn't "allow" -- let me rephrase -- he reminds me how futile it has been for us to invest in those boys because, although their parents don't always control them, we are clearly NOT their parents. Nor are we surrogates. Example: I've seen the oldest boy SLAP his grandfather -- my father -- and his own father sat there watching and did NOTHING. Makes us want to pull our hair out, but they are not our kids.

 

So although we try to keep things going for my parents' sake, although we would like things to be different, they are the way they are, and it is best for us to accept this.

 

:grouphug: I'm sorry.

 

My very own (well, my Dh's) dear, sweet 18 year old nephew has only ever written a thank you note for a formal occasion like graduation. Since I don't place a high value on receiving thank you notes, that doesn't bother me. He always says thank you at the time though. My SIL told me about a conversation she had with him concerning Christmas last year. Apparently, over the years the gifts Dh and I gave him were his favorites. I love that kid.:001_wub: But he never told me that. Your nephews may not say anything now. They may not even feel gratitude now. But maybe they will think back on it later. My Aunt Geri used to send us the best packages when we were little. They were filled with bits and pieces that she picked up at garage sales. I took them for granted then. She sends them to my kids now and they take them for granted. They'll remember, though.

 

If you don't want to give them things for their birthdays anymore, I think that 16 is a good age to start treating them like adults. No more required gifts. Maybe instead you could occasionally give them their favorite candy bar or a $5 movie and bag of popcorn just because you love them and were thinking of them. It might mean more than a birthday gift that they expect.

[MamaAkins]

Is your relationship with them anything more than giving them gifts? It's not clear from your post. Outside of holiday gift-giving, do you spend much time with them? If you don't, then I don't think it's surprising that they wouldn't feel much gratitude, warmth, or connection, or that they might feel awkward about thank yous, especially at their ages.

 

I know I always felt kind of awkward around my aunts and uncles who we only saw at holidays. When I was a teen, I absolutely would have felt awkward about how to thank them for a gift.

 

I don't know, I'm not one to make getting a thank you for a gift a relational hill to die on, at all. When I give somebody a gift, I'm giving it without expecting anything in return, including a thank you.

 

I guess to me it sounds like there are two ways to handle this. You could just stop giving them gifts because their lack of expressed gratitude bothers you so much, and, I'm getting the sense, effectively cut off most of the contact you have with them. Or you can work on building a stronger relationship with them, outside of holiday and birthday gift-giving, despite your annoyance at their lack of expressed gratitude, and then maybe they'll feel more comfortable expressing thanks.

 

But, personally, I really don't think there's anything unusual about a teenager being reticent with thanks when receiving gifts from relatives they aren't close to. I guess what comes through to me most from your post is the fact that you seem to feel distant from your nephews, and unwilling to really be in a relationship with them, because you are so upset about their lack of expressed thankfulness for your gifts to them. Without sounding too harsh, IMO you're the adult in the situation, and if you want real thanks from them you'll probably need a real relationship with them, and as the adult you're going to have to be the one to pursue that.

:iagree: