CLEP, dual enrollment info.

[Alison in KY]

Could somone please explain to me the benefits or negatives of using CLEP or dual enrollment classes? CLEP sounds almost to wonderful to be true, but then I was wondering how it would affect a students grades if they failed the CLEP.

 

Thank you,

 

Alison

[Sunshine State Sue]

I don't know much about CLEP. My son will be starting dual enrollment classes in another week. Yeah! Here, students who pass the college placement test may dual enroll for free in 10th-12th grade. Some students take advantage of this and earn their AA degree by the time they graduate high school. Here are some of the benefits as I see it:

 

• FREE college tuition (at least here in FL)
  
• CC classes count both for high school credit and college credit (*).
  
• Some semester long CC classes count as a year of high school credit.
  
• Dual enrollment generally indicates challenging classes to 4 year universities.
  
• There are benefits of starting college while still living at home and having a parent to discuss/oversee. For example, discussing how to approach a professor with a question.
  

 

 

(*) Any classes taken at CC will transfer to a state university (at least here in FL). However, they may or may not transfer to private universities, out-of-state universities, or more competitive universities.

 

HTH!

[cbollin]

I'm just beginning to learn more about CLEP and all of that. so this is what I think I'm learning. I don't think it would affect grades if someone scored lower on it than the university recognizes. Each college decides how to deal with credit by exam (AP, IB, or CLEP or other). So, if someone doesn't get minimum score on it as determined by college, it shouldn't be any big deal. It would like taking a class in group school and then only getting a 3 on AP test, it's not part of the final grade (or at least it wasn't when I was in high school.)

 

Not all colleges take CLEP for credit. Even those that do accept it, they will have variety of ways to treat it depending on the course of study. Passing score on CLEP will vary.

 

It can be nice to have college credit going in -- helps your application look more competitive. You get a few credits -even if someone has to count toward general elective.

 

-crystal

[Phil413]

I'm just learning too. I have been told that the CLEP tests can not only give college credit, but they also validate your homeschool education. Only passing scores are used and the only drawback would be the loss of money to take the test. If you do not have a passing score, you have to wait 6 months to try again.

[creekland]

I have no experience with Clep, just limited experience with dual enrollment and AP.

 

What I've found in our college "hunts" is that state schools tend to take anything for credit as long as a C or equivalent is earned. (There are always exceptions, but this is the tendency.) Low to mid tier private schools are similar. The higher level you go up to (higher selectivity) the less they will take (again, in general). Overall, the most appreciated one in our experience has been AP tests. The reason I've been given for this is that college admissions know what is on or covered in AP and they don't know for dual enrollment classes. Even at mid tier colleges, profs have told me they've had some kids come in with college credit from dual enrollment who were well-prepared, but the majority have not been (in their opinion). Thus, the trend has been for less colleges to accept those credits.

 

If I had it to do over again, I'd have concentrated more on AP (with tests - useless without tests) and less on dual enrollment since I like to keep our college options open. The plus to dual enrollment is my boys will have great letters of recommendation from their profs.

 

For my youngest, I'm having him do AP outside of school since he's in our ps and they only offer the dual enrollment option. It's that big of a difference at some colleges we are looking at. He heard the same spiels I've heard as he tagged along on our visits. He's ok with doing the extra work for AP.

 

One BIG note for those heading toward medical school... MANY medical schools do not accept AP credit (or any other) for pre-req courses. It is recommended that students do not accept credit for those either - even if the college allows it - unless they are certain they only want to apply to med schools that do allow it (significantly limiting options). However, to get IN to undergrad schools, it still helps to have the AP tests/courses even if you opt to not accept the credit for them. They are a great way to substantiate homeschool grades. Clep is probably similar.

[Sandra in NC]

CLEP is a good choice, if your student plans to go to a school that accepts it for credit.

 

The reasons I like CLEP exams is that they are:

on-demand

computer-based

instantly scored

multiple choice (for the most part)

 

I've noticed that when a school accepts both AP and CLEP, they often require a "B" on the AP exam but a "C" on the corresponding CLEP. It doesn't make any sense, but it's true.

 

Because students self-study for CLEP, they take the exams when they are ready. They don't have to wait until May if they feel ready in October.

 

There are resources for CLEP and other alternative sources of credit on http://degreeplanners.com/ See videos on how to coordinate credit-by-exam with high school courses in the Homeschool/Earn College Credit section.

 

Oh, and if your student "fails" a CLEP, no one has to know about it. On the CLEP transcript request form your student can pick and choose the scores to send....and there is an option to send only scores of 50+ (generally passing).

Edited August 14, 2011 by Sandra in NC

[Sunshine State Sue]

If I had it to do over again, I'd have concentrated more on AP (with tests - useless without tests) and less on dual enrollment since I like to keep our college options open.

Creekland, have you considered AP tests after dual enrollment classes at all?

[creekland]

Creekland, have you considered AP tests after dual enrollment classes at all?

 

Oldest took an English class and got credit for it, so it was a non-issue. Middle son took Microbio and Effective Speaking - no AP tests for those. He'll do English at the cc this year and self-study Psych and Calc (w/Thinkwell). Since he's a senior, whether or not he'll take the AP tests for those will depend on which college he chooses to attend and their recommendation.

 

CC classes cost us $220 per credit hour ($660 for a three hour course), so we couldn't afford many. I tried to pick topics that would be useful, but we couldn't easily do at home. I had asked my school if they could order AP tests for us, but was told, "no" since they didn't offer them to their own students. I only found out in March that the nearby Catholic high school still offers them and was willing to let my guy take AP Stats there. At that point we had already made the decision to do just half a credit each of Advanced Bio and Chem in order to save the other half for senior year (the year right before he will retake those in college for Pre-med). I couldn't change my mind in March for May tests.

 

Edited to add that I think the AP test after a dual enrollment course would be superb for showing mastery. However, be sure to have a good AP Prep book as college courses and AP courses sometimes stress different topics.

Edited August 15, 2011 by creekland

[Phil413]

This is all great information, ladies! Thank you!

 

Anyone else have any thoughts?

[Chrystal in TX]

Thanks so much for the information you provided below. I just have a quick question. So AP classes can be taken outside of public high school for $$$? Can you explain a little more about that option?

 

I have no experience with Clep, just limited experience with dual enrollment and AP.

 

What I've found in our college "hunts" is that state schools tend to take anything for credit as long as a C or equivalent is earned. (There are always exceptions, but this is the tendency.) Low to mid tier private schools are similar. The higher level you go up to (higher selectivity) the less they will take (again, in general). Overall, the most appreciated one in our experience has been AP tests. The reason I've been given for this is that college admissions know what is on or covered in AP and they don't know for dual enrollment classes. Even at mid tier colleges, profs have told me they've had some kids come in with college credit from dual enrollment who were well-prepared, but the majority have not been (in their opinion). Thus, the trend has been for less colleges to accept those credits.

 

If I had it to do over again, I'd have concentrated more on AP (with tests - useless without tests) and less on dual enrollment since I like to keep our college options open. The plus to dual enrollment is my boys will have great letters of recommendation from their profs.

 

For my youngest, I'm having him do AP outside of school since he's in our ps and they only offer the dual enrollment option. It's that big of a difference at some colleges we are looking at. He heard the same spiels I've heard as he tagged along on our visits. He's ok with doing the extra work for AP.

 

One BIG note for those heading toward medical school... MANY medical schools do not accept AP credit (or any other) for pre-req courses. It is recommended that students do not accept credit for those either - even if the college allows it - unless they are certain they only want to apply to med schools that do allow it (significantly limiting options). However, to get IN to undergrad schools, it still helps to have the AP tests/courses even if you opt to not accept the credit for them. They are a great way to substantiate homeschool grades. Clep is probably similar.

[creekland]

Thanks so much for the information you provided below. I just have a quick question. So AP classes can be taken outside of public high school for $$$? Can you explain a little more about that option?

 

If you want an outside class, consider PA Homeschoolers or Keystone. I'm sure there are others, but they are probably full and already underway for this school year as there's a lot to cover by the May testing date.

 

You can also self-study by using the same books, etc, and a decent prep book, then sign up for an AP test at a local school offering the test (can call collegeboard to find contacts). Middle son self-studied Stats last year and got a 5 on the test. (5 is the highest score.) On the transcript you can't call these self studying classes "AP" without written permission, but we put it on as Stats w/AP test (score = 5) and no one has complained.

[MomsintheGarden]

Could somone please explain to me the benefits or negatives of using CLEP or dual enrollment classes? CLEP sounds almost to wonderful to be true, but then I was wondering how it would affect a students grades if they failed the CLEP.

 

Thank you,

 

Alison

 

Our two oldest have each taken several CLEPs and APs. There are advantages and disadvantages to both. Neither took any DE classes because of tuition costs ($$ in VA, but not $$$ as in PA) and distance. All of the options, CLEP, AP, and DE, only work for college credit if your student will attend a college that awards useful credit for them. This varies widely by school, major, and career plans, and is hard to predict when your student is just beginning high school. Also, you must make sure you follow the college's rules for keeping freshman status if you want to compete for 1st-year scholarships. To find the above information, check with the college. Get their policy in writing. You can usually find it on their website. Remember that CLEP and AP credit are considered CBE - Credit by Exam. Their credit is usually listed on the student's college transcript as "pass," "transfer credit," or "CBE." There will be no grade assigned. DE credit will be listed similarly. Here are my findings and opinions in a nutshell (sorry, they're in not well organized): AP: - Paper and pencil exam. - Most difficult, except for the occasional DE class with a really tough professor. - Some APs are easier than others, but all are challenging. - Once-a-year 3-hour test that's available by registering with a high school. It can be hard to find a school sometimes. - Most prestigious. Colleges will take notice if your student scores a 5. - Most likely to be awarded useful credit, although not always. - Colleges, especially engineering schools, routinely require placement exams in math for students with AP credit. Even those who get 5s. - Can self-study for them or take an online or in-person class. DE: - Quality and cost vary. - Not all colleges accept credit. - Best for students who live close to the school and can drive, or who find an all-or-nothing test too stressful, or those who need an in-person teacher. CLEP: - 90-minute computer multiple-choice test (except for essay exams such as College Composition). - Available all year at participating colleges. - If you fail, you can take the test again in 6 months. - If your school awards CLEP credit, you can usually take an exam up to the semester before you graduate. - Probably the easiest option. - Pretty easy to study for, especially if you use instantcert.com or speedyprep.com and and a prep book. The REA books w/CDs are good. - Not accepted for useful credit at as many colleges. - Passing score recommended by the CB is equivalent to a "C" and most colleges that do accept credit go by this, so it's easier to pass. That's all I can think of right now. I am definitely in the "been there, done that" crowd with CLEPs and APs. If you have any specific questions, ask away. HTH, GardenMom

[LatinTea]

My ds is going the whole way with testing and just a handful of online classes (and he did do 2 dual credit classes in high school). He even took the GRE in Literature and received 18 credits (many of them upper level). Right now, he is a few credits away from his degree, all for under $5K. He is preparing to go on for his MBA next year. :) This course isn't for everyone, but has suited his needs.

 

If your student wants to go the regular route, then my research has shown that a 30 credit limit is the general norm. Whatever you do, any amount of CLEP's or other methods of testing really does take down the final bill of a 4 year degree. ;)

Edited September 13, 2011 by LatinTea