MCT Writing

[PenKase]

For those of you who are working ahead in MCT, could you offer some BTDT insight on when MCT actually teaches writing mechanics? I've been wracking my brain and am up to my eyeballs in manuals. I'm considering implementing two/three writing programs (you know, kitchen sink model) this coming school year but I wonder if that's even really necessary? Honestly, all I want is to streamline as much as possible and get things done without too much push back and frustration from my sweet dd who adores MCT.

 

Thoughts?

[Capt_Uhura]

This may be a stupid question, and I've spent the past hour exercising at 170bpm so my brain isn't functioning right now :lol: but can you define or give some examples of what you mean by "writing mechanics?"

[nansk]

Mechanics is handwriting, spelling, punctuation and formatting, right?

[radiobrain]

What level are you in? It would help for people to explain properly....

[PenKase]

This may be a stupid question, and I've spent the past hour exercising at 170bpm so my brain isn't functioning right now :lol: but can you define or give some examples of what you mean by "writing mechanics?"

 

LOL!!! BTW....I truly admire your commitment to health/exercise. It's on my to do list. :lol:

 

 

Mechanics is handwriting, spelling, punctuation and formatting, right?

 

What you mentioned is indeed mechanics, but what I mean is direct writing instruction/how to in sentence/paragraph/essay composition, structure, and style. Sort of what WWS does but with an MCT flair. I had dd read through the WWS student sample yesterday. Although she is aware of the heightened expectations, I get the feeling it'll be a bumpy ride. She's had no past experience with the skill development in WWS while in ps other than the narrations she did last year when we homeschooled. Essentially, I don't want to have to "double dip" into the writing pot now if MCT will be teaching it in the later levels. KWIM? With another dd coming up in the ranks, I need all the time I can get to teach her too.

 

Clear as mud? :lol::lol:

 

ETA: She'll be doing Town in September (and plan to begin Voyage once done with Town later in 2012)

[8filltheheart]

I haven't used the lower levels, but in the Voyage level there isn't any solid "direct instruction" like in traditional textbooks. It is why when I have posted about our experience with MCT that I have stated that unless you know what you are teaching, it may be difficult to implement. The instruction is the big picture, the essence of essay writing. It is not step by step explicit directions on how to write an essay. The punctuation instruction is interspersed and weak. (I think the punctuation instruction is the weakest part of the program.)

[Capt_Uhura]

:iagree: with 8FilltheHeart. I felt like I needed more hand holding which is why I'm also using WWS. We can use the details provided by SWB and the big picture provided by MCT to hopefully get a whole. I supplement with the Killgallon books and Daily Paragraph Editing. In DPE, we also discuss the paragraphs, not just the grammar and punctuation.

[EKS]

There is no systematic instruction on mechanics. In some of the books there are a few pages that simply list rules, but I don't consider that true instruction, more of a style guide. It is a weakness of the program and is one of the reasons I've decided to take a break from MCT after two years of using it.

Edited August 10, 2011 by EKS

[Crimson Wife]

I agree with the PP. If you're looking for that kind of step-by-step approach, I highly recommend EPS' The Paragraph Book series. Now if I could only find something similar for essay writing...

[PenKase]

Umph! Thanks for the responses. I was afraid you guys would say that. Comparing MCT and WWS, I can see how the two will compliment each other. For those of you who are using multiple curricula, how do you intend to schedule them all in? FWIW I do like that with WWS, the student has to assume the responsibility of completing the assignments while the parent/teacher can act as facilitator.

[LisaKinVA]

My youngers are doing WWE, FLL and MCT. Essentially, I'm doing MCT grammar book straight through, then starting FLL a couple of times a week. As we finish parts of MCT we add in more MCT. WWE we follow daily, and we don't do much of MCT's composition exercises "formally." We talk, discuss and do things together.

 

After we finish with MCT/FLL, we'll be working on Killgallon.

 

My oldest is a bit "ahead" of FLL series, so we're using Abeka for reinforcement of basic grammar/punctuation (as well as some computer games... like Editor n Chief). I will probably be purchasing WWS, though. After MCT/Abeka he will be doing Killgallon.

 

Also, I feel that TWTM method of outlining and re-writing from an outline (something we're doing in Science this year...) is *excellent* training in the organization of writing. MCT is an excellent tool for the poetics and thought in good writing, and Killgallon is an excellent tool to practice imitations of great writing. That's what I'm doing "in a nutshell."

 

FWIW, I am backing off the plethora of "creative writing" assignments, and focusing on basics. We will be following both MCT's and SWB's ideas for writing (more short papers... essays/position papers), but building slowly in middle school, moving to 2 papers/week across the curriculum (literature, history, science) in high school, adding in research papers then.

[Capt_Uhura]

My youngers are doing WWE, FLL and MCT. Essentially, I'm doing MCT grammar book straight through, then starting FLL a couple of times a week. As we finish parts of MCT we add in more MCT. WWE we follow daily, and we don't do much of MCT's composition exercises "formally." We talk, discuss and do things together.

 

 

Also, I feel that TWTM method of outlining and re-writing from an outline (something we're doing in Science this year...) is *excellent* training in the organization of writing. MCT is an excellent tool for the poetics and thought in good writing, and Killgallon is an excellent tool to practice imitations of great writing. That's what I'm doing "in a nutshell."

 

FWIW, I am backing off the plethora of "creative writing" assignments, and focusing on basics. We will be following both MCT's and SWB's ideas for writing (more short papers... essays/position papers), but building slowly in middle school, moving to 2 papers/week across the curriculum (literature, history, science) in high school, adding in research papers then.

:iagree::iagree::iagree:

[hollyandab]

Oii, you guys all sound like you know what you're doing... I bought town level of MCT and was planning on using Writing Aids along with it for specific assignments. (We use Tapestry of Grace.) Anyone out there doing the same? Do you think this is enough? :confused: Everyone sounds like they're doing so much more...sigh...:tongue_smilie:

 

Any thoughts? Maybe add in a paragraph editing kind of workbook??

 

Holly

[Tiramisu]

I agree with the PP. If you're looking for that kind of step-by-step approach, I highly recommend EPS' The Paragraph Book series. Now if I could only find something similar for essay writing...

 

Crimson Wife,

 

Have you looked at Jump In? From the sample I saw, it seems to provide what you're looking for.

[Crimson Wife]

That's the Apologia one? In general, I try to avoid curricula from Protestant publishers, and the samples I've seen of it haven't really tempted me to make an exception for this particular program. Maybe I'll have to see if anyone in my local support group has a copy that I can look through at park day.

[Tiramisu]

That's the Apologia one? In general, I try to avoid curricula from Protestant publishers, and the samples I've seen of it haven't really tempted me to make an exception for this particular program. Maybe I'll have to see if anyone in my local support group has a copy that I can look through at park day.

 

If you get a chance to look at it let me know what you think.

 

A homeschool dad I know was recently telling me he liked the essay instruction in Lepanto's Voyages, but I'm not sure of the grade level. 6th maybe? If I remember correctly, you're not a big fan of those either. It couldn't hurt to check one out, though, and a copy would be very easy to find if you have a Catholic support group nearby.

[8filltheheart]

I agree with the PP. If you're looking for that kind of step-by-step approach, I highly recommend EPS' The Paragraph Book series. Now if I could only find something similar for essay writing...

 

Have you looked at Lively Art of Writing?

[PenKase]

For those of you who have used WWS, does it feel like pulling teeth?

[Capt_Uhura]

No, it actually wasn't like pulling teeth. Math is usually like pulling teeth.

[Create Your Ritual]

I actually think my kids are going to love the stories she has chosen. Once they are into the story, the learning part is easier.

[Tiramisu]

Okay, everyone. Are you going to start me thinking about WWS again? After I've just bought CC??!!

 

:willy_nilly:

 

"Yes, dear, you're going to do two writing programs this year. You'll just love the stories. Now eat your spinach."

[Create Your Ritual]

ha ha ... yes, I have the same problem. CC is yet to arrive, but I did order it. I am trying to figure out what I am going to do when CC arrives and I love it too!

[Crimson Wife]

A homeschool dad I know was recently telling me he liked the essay instruction in Lepanto's Voyages, but I'm not sure of the grade level. 6th maybe? If I remember correctly, you're not a big fan of those either. It couldn't hurt to check one out, though, and a copy would be very easy to find if you have a Catholic support group nearby.

 

The 3rd grade VIE I tried was a *HUGE* flop, but I haven't seen the higher level books. Looking at the sample of VIE 6 on the Seton website, however, I just have this feeling that it wouldn't go over any better than the first time we tried the program...

[8filltheheart]

The 3rd grade VIE I tried was a *HUGE* flop, but I haven't seen the higher level books. Looking at the sample of VIE 6 on the Seton website, however, I just have this feeling that it wouldn't go over any better than the first time we tried the program...

 

I like the newer VIE (my kids hated the older versions). However, I wouldn't recommend them for essay writing instruction. THey do provide solid writing instruction in general, but I do not recall essay instruction per se. (it has been a few yrs, though.....ok, actually longer than a few, since I used the higher grades. But I do remember using other sources for teaching essay writing to my oldest.)

[TheAutumnOak]

Oii, you guys all sound like you know what you're doing... I bought town level of MCT and was planning on using Writing Aids along with it for specific assignments. (We use Tapestry of Grace.) Anyone out there doing the same? Do you think this is enough? :confused: Everyone sounds like they're doing so much more...sigh...:tongue_smilie:

 

Any thoughts? Maybe add in a paragraph editing kind of workbook??

 

Holly

 

Wanted to bump this particular question up since we are using TOG and MCT this year :bigear:

I did not get Writing Aids yet, and I am still considering getting it, but don't want to get it if I don't need it...I am planning to use MCT, WWE, and Rod & Staff and I feel like it is so much...It would be nice to just use one thing, but I can't seem to replace any of them...Does anyone have any experience with Writing Aids?

[swimmermom3]

I did want to add here that for those of you that find MCT appealing, please don't overlook Paragraph Town and Essay Voyage. I consider them to be valuable tools even if they can be difficult to schedule.

[hollyandab]

Wanted to bump this particular question up since we are using TOG and MCT this year :bigear:

 

I did not get Writing Aids yet, and I am still considering getting it, but don't want to get it if I don't need it...I am planning to use MCT, WWE, and Rod & Staff and I feel like it is so much...It would be nice to just use one thing, but I can't seem to replace any of them...Does anyone have any experience with Writing Aids?

 

I haven't found too many TOGers who also use WA, at least not on this forum. But you're doing MCT, WWE and R&S...I can't imagine adding in Writing Aids to that! I would think MCT and WWE would be enough, or MCT with R&S, but that's me. I might change my mind as I get further into MCT writing. Still curious how it will work! :)

 

WA is more like a handbook, but maybe that's all we really need, along with the writing suggestions from TOG! :001_huh: Probably over-complicating it, but, oh well!

[TheAutumnOak]

I haven't found too many TOGers who also use WA, at least not on this forum. But you're doing MCT, WWE and R&S...I can't imagine adding in Writing Aids to that! I would think MCT and WWE would be enough, or MCT with R&S, but that's me. I might change my mind as I get further into MCT writing. Still curious how it will work! :)

 

WA is more like a handbook, but maybe that's all we really need, along with the writing suggestions from TOG! :001_huh: Probably over-complicating it, but, oh well!

 

This is what I am wondering...Am I over complicating it :willy_nilly:

[PenKase]

WA is more like a handbook, but maybe that's all we really need, along with the writing suggestions from TOG! :001_huh: Probably over-complicating it, but, oh well!

 

I've been lead to think that this would be the way to go. Trying to choose between all these writing programs is making my head spin. I fear that the step by step by step approach will turn my creative dc into grumpelstiltskins.

[hollyandab]

I've been lead to think that this would be the way to go. Trying to choose between all these writing programs is making my head spin. I fear that the step by step by step approach will turn my creative dc into grumpelstiltskins.

That's how I feel also. I don't want a formula, but I'm also not extremely confident in my ability to teach writing. I'm somewhere in the middle! I think Writing Aids and the TOG suggestions would be fine to organize and write papers. What I feel it doesn't address is how to write BETTER sentences, as in, more complex sentence structures, creative wording, etc...and if you use their suggestion for grammar--Easy Grammar--that's not addressed there either. That's why I added in MCT, which I think addresses the sentence structures fairly well, and MCT in general helps see the beauty in language, so I am hoping that it will be a good fit. I too get my head spinning over all of the different options available, and they all look sooo good! But, I'm trying to be patient by starting out with MCT, and when we're done reading through the writing book (paragraph town), then add in WA along with MCT vocab and poetry. IDK--we'll see how it goes! I'm trying not to complicate it, but this is really the first year I've formally addressed writing with my boys, so I'm a little nervous. I've always had them just do copywork, dictation, and the occasional descriptive paragraph, which I think has actually been good for them. They don't hate writing since I haven't made them stress over it, and when I do have them write something, they've done surprisingly well!

 

Anyhow, guess I'm just rambling thoughts off...today was our third day of school with TOG and MCT and such, and I am VERY happy with everything! So, yayyyyayayay!!

 

Blessings,

Holly

[swimmermom3]

PenKase and Holly, I am supposed to be packing for a camping trip instead of playing on the forum, but did want to add that having a handbook like WA or maybe even better, Write Source or the Webster's Student Handbook, isn't a bad plan because it gives you a checklist. I think that most people who are genuinely drawn to MCT because of the way it's written, tend to run with a bit more of an organic flow when teaching writing and their students tend to enjoy word play and may not necessarily learn and write in that nice, orderly fashion that your standard writing programs are written in.

 

What I mean is that MCT can feel disorganized because there is no index that says "periods, then commas, then apostrophes," but that does not mean the mechanics aren't there. I believe MCT is all about the mechanics. When you have finished your lessons, take out a grammar and/or writing handbook and identify the skills you worked on for the day. Make a note in your teacher's log. When you have your student use one of Julie Bogart's Arrow or Boomerang assignments, make a note again somewhere in your teacher's log that not only did you talk about foreshadowing, but you talked about the punctuation involved in writing dialogue. Keep track of your skills list as it grows over the year. I think you will be pleasantly surprised. You can also use your handbook to identify and teach any skills that don't show up on your running tally. My personal experience is that my son remembers what to do far more easily when it is tied into passages from favorite books than when it appears out of context.

 

In 5th grade, ds spent a year doing Easy Grammar. The following year, we started with Grammar Voyage. Words cannot begin to express my feelings of failure as a teacher when he read about prepositional phrases in MCT and said, "Oh, now I get that." He had spent the entire previous year, scoring on average around 95% on his Easy Grammar work and he had no clue how a prepositional phrase actually worked. Easy Grammar is built entirely around eliminating prepositional phrases so that it is easier to identify every other part of speech. The grammar out of context was nothing more than some rules with no true functionality. It was a humbling moment.

 

Rats. Now, it is sailing pick-up. :tongue_smilie: Sorry. I was going somewhere with this thought.

[hollyandab]

 

What I mean is that MCT can feel disorganized because there is no index that says "periods, then commas, then apostrophes," but that does not mean the mechanics aren't there. I believe MCT is all about the mechanics. When you have finished your lessons, take out a grammar and/or writing handbook and identify the skills you worked on for the day. Make a note in your teacher's log. When you have your student use one of Julie Bogart's Arrow or Boomerang assignments, make a note again somewhere in your teacher's log that not only did you talk about foreshadowing, but you talked about the punctuation involved in writing dialogue. Keep track of your skills list as it grows over the year. I think you will be pleasantly surprised. You can also use your handbook to identify and teach any skills that don't show up on your running tally. My personal experience is that my son remembers what to do far more easily when it is tied into passages from favorite books than when it appears out of context.

 

 

This is a great idea; I will definitely do this! Thanks! Let me also ask, you mentioned Julie Bogart's Arrow and such...how do you think her style compares to MCT's writing program? I looked at her Writer's Jungle but decided on MCT, but are you familiar with both? Do you like one over the other? I like the idea of having a handbook to keep track of things while using a more creative or "organic," as I think you called it, approach to writing, so I'm wondering if the Writer's Jungle approach would fit in better with Writing Aids instead of MCT with Writing Aids. Again, just rambling and trying to find my mojo for teaching writing! I think I'm getting close! :)

 

Thanks again for the suggestion and the way you explained things; it really hit home for me!

 

Holly

[PenKase]

What I mean is that MCT can feel disorganized because there is no index that says "periods, then commas, then apostrophes," but that does not mean the mechanics aren't there. I believe MCT is all about the mechanics. When you have finished your lessons, take out a grammar and/or writing handbook and identify the skills you worked on for the day. Make a note in your teacher's log. When you have your student use one of Julie Bogart's Arrow or Boomerang assignments, make a note again somewhere in your teacher's log that not only did you talk about foreshadowing, but you talked about the punctuation involved in writing dialogue. Keep track of your skills list as it grows over the year. I think you will be pleasantly surprised. You can also use your handbook to identify and teach any skills that don't show up on your running tally. My personal experience is that my son remembers what to do far more easily when it is tied into passages from favorite books than when it appears out of context.

 

I really, really like the crunchy-granola-organic sound of this. It feels that going this route will enhance my dc's writing skills while not killing the love of the art.